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Drasius wrote:Can you provide a Page and quote please?

CrownAxe wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
, but you can't snap fire ordnance weapons so you can't even shoot them at flyers.

Are you sure about that? I'm away from my rulebook, but I remember vehicles can definitely snapshot ordnance weapons (as long as they're not blasts or templates). Can you provide a Page and quote please?

Rapier Laser Destroyers aren't vehicles which is why they can't snap fire ordnance

Fateweaver or Ignore (as have suggested).

Fateweaver's D shot takes 3 warp charges and hits on a 2+. A deathblow will destroy the flier immediately and depending on how much threat it is at the time you can use the 'staff of tomorrow' for a reroll (or if you get a 1). Most importantly, Fateweaver has other uses. Anything else you take to try and down such a beast will be overcosted and over dedicated to this specific task.

40k is all about destroying the things you need to and ignoring the rest. Critially don't make the mistake of pouring firepower into something you have little to no chance of destroying. Take the easy pickoffs and try to play to mission objectives. Even if his flier has 2 units of 10 hammernators and a dreadnought it's probably still not the priority. All those rhinos with the objective secured tactical marines are going to be what's scoring all the objectives while you waste all your time snap shooting your lascannons for a 1/36 chance of scoring a hull point.

 Drasius wrote:

Drasius wrote:Can you provide a Page and quote please?

CrownAxe wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
, but you can't snap fire ordnance weapons so you can't even shoot them at flyers.

Are you sure about that? I'm away from my rulebook, but I remember vehicles can definitely snapshot ordnance weapons (as long as they're not blasts or templates). Can you provide a Page and quote please?

Rapier Laser Destroyers aren't vehicles which is why they can't snap fire ordnance

Are you incappable of looking up the index of your rulebook?

The answers here are awful. None of this is practical advice.

OP, the best way to kill AV14 is melta or lascannons. The cheapest/easiest way to kill fliers is to twin link things, the second easiest is to give skyfire in an army that lacks "good" fliers, finally the "ork" approach, fill the sky with bullets.

So for CSM my suggestions are: Sorcerers with divination added to melta squads in something mobile. (Black Legion Chosen/Sorceror formation works well for this, and gets you fearless) The various forms of tanks with twin linked lascannons also work well, Land Raiders, Preds, Helbrutes.

Now for bullets, the new warpsmith/daemon vehicles formation, plus some sorcerors could easily throw enough firepower airborne.

 sfshilo wrote:
The answers here are awful. None of this is practical advice.

OP, the best way to kill AV14 is melta or lascannons. The cheapest/easiest way to kill fliers is to twin link things, the second easiest is to give skyfire in an army that lacks "good" fliers, finally the "ork" approach, fill the sky with bullets.

So for CSM my suggestions are: Sorcerers with divination added to melta squads in something mobile. (Black Legion Chosen/Sorceror formation works well for this, and gets you fearless) The various forms of tanks with twin linked lascannons also work well, Land Raiders, Preds, Helbrutes.

Now for bullets, the new warpsmith/daemon vehicles formation, plus some sorcerors could easily throw enough firepower airborne.

I personally dont think an allied detachment with fateweaver is poor advice at all.

 sfshilo wrote:
The answers here are awful. None of this is practical advice.

OP, the best way to kill AV14 is melta or lascannons. The cheapest/easiest way to kill fliers is to twin link things, the second easiest is to give skyfire in an army that lacks "good" fliers, finally the "ork" approach, fill the sky with bullets.

So for CSM my suggestions are: Sorcerers with divination added to melta squads in something mobile. (Black Legion Chosen/Sorceror formation works well for this, and gets you fearless) The various forms of tanks with twin linked lascannons also work well, Land Raiders, Preds, Helbrutes.

Now for bullets, the new warpsmith/daemon vehicles formation, plus some sorcerors could easily throw enough firepower airborne.

Sorcerers don't get divination. There is a reason all the answers given are bad because CSM doesn't have have good answers.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
The answers here are awful. None of this is practical advice.

OP, the best way to kill AV14 is melta or lascannons. The cheapest/easiest way to kill fliers is to twin link things, the second easiest is to give skyfire in an army that lacks "good" fliers, finally the "ork" approach, fill the sky with bullets.

So for CSM my suggestions are: Sorcerers with divination added to melta squads in something mobile. (Black Legion Chosen/Sorceror formation works well for this, and gets you fearless) The various forms of tanks with twin linked lascannons also work well, Land Raiders, Preds, Helbrutes.

Now for bullets, the new warpsmith/daemon vehicles formation, plus some sorcerors could easily throw enough firepower airborne.

Black Legion Sorcerers don't get divination. There is a reason all the answers given are bad because CSM doesn't have have good answers.

Fixed your answer.
The odds of getting chosen/termies into melta range of a flyer are pretty low and outside of melta range they stand almost no chance of taking it down. And that's not even considering armoured ceramite. They'd need two sixes in a row and still have to get through a jink save if you somehow manage to hit enough to warrant jinking and can only put on glancing hits. No way are you getting a second round of shooting at the flyer like that either. Forgefiends are even less likely to kill it.

Lascannons are too expensive for how many you'd need to reliably bring down an AV 14 flyer. Even 3 vindicator laser destroyers can't do it. and that's the cheapest lascannon spam we get as csm. Forget helbrutes and land raiders.

Your better off with either icarus lascannons, stormeagle/fireraptor or denying the witch to stop it from becoming AV14 in the first place. Or bring allies, aka fateweaver.
There might have been something in the draft faq that let's you hit a flyer with nova or so to strip some hullpoints that way but I doubt it.

No, you didn't fix my answer. Regular CSM can't get divination, nor can the Black Legion supplement. The only way a chaos sorcerer can gain access to divination is to take the one relic from Crimson Slaughter that gives you it. That means only a single sorcerer can ever have divination and thats it.