Breacher Squads

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**Boredflak1066**

More Dakka wrote:

They really shine against a lot of dedicated CC units by taking away their charge bonus AND their extra CCW attacks.

I think I remember the models losing the charge bonus in the rules, but I don't remember them also canceling the extra CCW attacks. Was this added in the new improved HH red book with some other changes? I never thought the breacher squads were worth the extra points for them. The shields ++ seemed backwards to me, it should be 6+ in CC and 5+ in ranged attacks. The reroll armor saves never worked that well for me either since I was always getting hit with AP3 AOE weapons.

**EmberlordofFire8**

I've played against a unit of IW breachers with an attatched praetor. The praetor had a void shield. I had to bring my vindicator over to kill him, resulting in his land raiders making it across the board and killing off my tactic als and Rapiers.

So I guess that's one way to run them. Make them a unit your opponent fears.

**em_en_oh_pee**

EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
I've played against a unit of IW breachers with an attatched praetor. The praetor had a void shield. I had to bring my vindicator over to kill him, resulting in his land raiders making it across the board and killing off my tactic als and Rapiers.

So I guess that's one way to run them. Make them a unit your opponent fears.

The Void Shield (and all that unique gear) is for narrative play, though, per FW. So definitely good to keep that in mind. Won't fly at a tourney unless the TO is pretty chill about that stuff.

**EmberlordofFire8**

We're in the process of a campaign, but the good news is he won't be able to use his shield again. Thanks vindicator!

**Sgt_Smudge**

So I'm assuming that footslogging Breachers aren't too viable?

**Tamwulf**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So I'm assuming that footslogging Breachers aren't too viable?

Depends on if you give your opponent something else to shoot at. Foot slogging in 30K is viable, but you have to tool everything up for it (Apothecaries in all the squads, invulnerable saves, use of cover, etc. etc. ).

**em_en_oh_pee**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So I'm assuming that footslogging Breachers aren't too viable?

Depends on if your opponent's have discovered Phosphex Quad Launchers or not.

**obsidiankatana**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So I'm assuming that footslogging Breachers aren't too viable?

Depends on if your opponent's have discovered Phosphex Quad Launchers or not.

Or Medusas, Basilisks, Masters of Signal, Vindicators, Predators (Executioner Plasma Cannon), Whirlwind Scorpius, etc.

In 30k, removing 3+ save bodies is the standard. 3+ save bodies with a 6+ invulnerable are a negligible hair above that metric.

**em_en_oh_pee**

obsidiankatana wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
So I'm assuming that footslogging Breachers aren't too viable?

Depends on if your opponent's have discovered Phosphex Quad Launchers or not.

Or Medusas, Basilisks, Masters of Signal, Vindicators, Predators (Executioner Plasma Cannon), Whirlwind Scorpius, etc.

In 30k, removing 3+ save bodies is the standard. 3+ save bodies with a 6+ invulnerable are a negligible hair above that metric.

Or Glaives, Falchions, Shadowswords, Malcadors, Dracosans, Typhons...

Yea, damn. The more I think about it, the more I see heavy transports as a must-have in 30k now. Just so much death getting thrown around!

**obsidiankatana**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Or Glaives, Falchions, Shadowswords, Malcadors, Dracosans, Typhons...

Yea, damn. The more I think about it, the more I see heavy transports as a must-have in 30k now. Just so much death getting thrown around!

Not even a heavy transport. A lot of what you listed is perfectly capable of crunching a heavy transport. Rhinos, on the other hand, make a mockery of big guns. There's nothing like a 300+ point tank putting its shooting into a 40pt box.

**em_en_oh_pee**

obsidiankatana wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Or Glaives, Falchions, Shadowswords, Malcadors, Dracosans, Typhons...

Yea, damn. The more I think about it, the more I see heavy transports as a must-have in 30k now. Just so much death getting thrown around!

Not even a heavy transport. A lot of what you listed is perfectly capable of crunching a heavy transport. Rhinos, on the other hand, make a mockery of big guns. There's nothing like a 300+ point tank putting its shooting into a 40pt box.

No one wastes a 300pt tank's big gun on a Rhino. They just shoot all their S6 and S7 firepower at it. Secondary weapons on Super-Heavies are just made for this.

**obsidiankatana**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Or Glaives, Falchions, Shadowswords, Malcadors, Dracosans, Typhons...

Yea, damn. The more I think about it, the more I see heavy transports as a must-have in 30k now. Just so much death getting thrown around!

Not even a heavy transport. A lot of what you listed is perfectly capable of crunching a heavy transport. Rhinos, on the other hand, make a mockery of big guns. There's nothing like a 300+ point tank putting its shooting into a 40pt box.

No one wastes a 300pt tank's big gun on a Rhino. They just shoot all their S6 and S7 firepower at it. Secondary weapons on Super-Heavies are just made for this.

Secondary weapons on superheavies still fire at the same time as the rest of the guns, even if in real time it's sequential. As in, you can't use the autocannon on a superheavy to kill a rhino then shoot the big gun on said superheavy at the contents of the Rhino. So at that point you're dedicating two squads of shooting at ten dudes in a 40pt box. I like that just as much.

That said, it could happen that a Stormlord or the like just blows away all your 40pt boxes in a turn. But I'd still take that over losing a 200+ point transport to a big gun. That could have been five rhinos!

**em_en_oh_pee**

obsidiankatana wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Or Glaives, Falchions, Shadowswords, Malcadors, Dracosans, Typhons...

Yea, damn. The more I think about it, the more I see heavy transports as a must-have in 30k now. Just so much death getting thrown around!

Not even a heavy transport. A lot of what you listed is perfectly capable of crunching a heavy transport. Rhinos, on the other hand, make a mockery of big guns. There's nothing like a 300+ point tank putting its shooting into a 40pt box.

No one wastes a 300pt tank's big gun on a Rhino. They just shoot all their S6 and S7 firepower at it. Secondary weapons on Super-Heavies are just made for this.

Secondary weapons on superheavies still fire at the same time as the rest of the guns, even if in real time it's sequential. As in, you can't use the autocannon on a superheavy to kill a rhino then shoot the big gun on said superheavy at the contents of the Rhino. So at that point you're dedicating two squads of shooting at ten dudes in a 40pt box. I like that just as much.

That said, it could happen that a Stormlord or the like just blows away all your 40pt boxes in a turn. But I'd still take that over losing a 200+ point transport to a big gun. That could have been five rhinos!

Not what I was getting at. I am still shooting at prime targets with the big gun - you don't just have an army of Rhinos.

That Typhon is erasing a squad that was forced out a prior turn or by some other firepower, while its lascannons open up more tin cans.

And those squads of 10 dudes in a Rhino seem so fragile in 30k and now they have to hoof it across a very unfriendly battlefield. One Phosphex barrage and they are gone with the wind. But what isn't, amirite?

**Castellan Alaric**

I'm going to be starting a shattered legions force with iron hands and salamanders supporting my Raven Guard and Immortals are going to be a big part of that. I like the idea of 10 of them in a land raider proteus with 3 twin-lascannons. Solid anti-tank and then a very solid speed bump to slow up units moving towards my lines.

As far as your ultramarines 'should I give every dude a power sword' questions - I'd say no. They really aren't a hammer unit, they really are the anvil upon which the hammer should smash the unit in between. They hold up the unit while your hammer comes to destroy that unit. Maybe give a couple of them power swords, but I'd advise against all of them. They just don't have enough attacks to justify it.

**HandofMars**

I wish they could reroll all failed saves vs templates and blasts like the Solar Auxilia and Nemean Reaver do. That would help a lot.

**Totalwar1402**

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
Optimum size is the maximum size, 20.
They don't really need a ROW but the imperial fists stone gauntlet is super good for breachers. (+1 T for models with shields in B2B)
They benefit from an apothecary more than tacticals do IMO.
The siegebreaker with a phosphex bomb is good if you are advancing. The forge lord with rad-grenades is alright if you intend to fight in CC.
Tactically, they can sit on an objective or advance forwards. They are more survivalbe than tacticals but significantly more costly so should have a clear purpose, eg. move to an objective and then sit on it.

Void hardened armour is good if you are using those rules as it prevents things like the frag quad mortars from shredding the unit.

They are the only troops squad that natively have access to the Proteus LR.
This allows for some reserves shenanigans if you buy the upgrades for it.

In Zone Mortalis they really shine when equipped with flamers.

They can also be supported by Deredeo dreadnoughts with the atomantic pavise for +1 invunerable saves and some reliable anti-TEQ from the plasma cannonade.

Its not base to base, its actually just provided you have unit coherency ie all the time.