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Reavas wrote:
This addition is the best by far, EC and deathguard are definatly coming out on top, fearless nd FNP armywide is amazing, same with the stealth the DG gain.

Not so sure bout EC unless there's any way of making noize marines relentless.

Emps children do not need to take sonics so for me a couple of squads sat at the back with blastmasters and blasters to provide (in formation)s9&5 respectivly and the rest running about for objective grabing and assaults with there i5 and a doom siren on the sarge. The biggest problem i see with a pure EC list is lack of ranged anti tank.

I mean a s9 ap3 blast template can glance a tank to death. especially when you can theoretically put 12 of them down in a round of shooting =D

macluvin wrote:
I mean a s9 ap3 blast template can glance a tank to death. especially when you can theoretically put 12 of them down in a round of shooting =D

Yeah but is 240 pts for only two blastmasters. To have 12 of them you need to spend 1440 points which is ridiculous

Aw. Well it was a good thought. You can outflank a whole wall of noise with the lord on a mount of slaanesh though. That's gotta be a fun trick to pull on someone

I really like the Alpha legion, Death guard the Emperors children. Runner up award for me are the black legion.

The Legion offers a really cool way to deploy via infiltration and really mess with your opponent. They Death Guard are tanky as balls and the Children have great boosts from the drugs and all the dakka.

Runner up Black Legion have the deep striking funzies, but I am cautious of deep striking as it can be rather dangerous doubly so when you are left bunched up begging to be blast.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To be honest I used footslogging oblits most of the time due to no deep strike mitigation and because I wanted to fire their weapons from turn 1.

Poor plague marines, now everyone can do what they can do and they are left with plague knives and plage grenades for essentially 7 points

They can also carry 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad though...

Exactly. Theye spam special weapons better and that's more important.

Well 'ish'
10 Nurgle marines x2 melta are 190pts
5 plague marines x2 melta are 140pts

For 50pts you get twice as many bodies that are just as survivable, keeping those meltas firing.

But wait... havocs...
130pts, 5 nurgle ones as good as PM now with 4 melta

bit more of a choice now.

 Latro_ wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To be honest I used footslogging oblits most of the time due to no deep strike mitigation and because I wanted to fire their weapons from turn 1.

Poor plague marines, now everyone can do what they can do and they are left with plague knives and plage grenades for essentially 7 points

They can also carry 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad though...

Exactly. Theye spam special weapons better and that's more important.

Well 'ish'
10 Nurgle marines x2 melta are 190pts
5 plague marines x2 melta are 140pts

For 50pts you get twice as many bodies that are just as survivable, keeping those meltas firing.

But wait... havocs...
130pts, 5 nurgle ones as good as PM now with 4 melta

bit more of a choice now.

That's 50 points that can go elsewhere. It goes a long way. You do that twice and you got a Helbrute (though I won't use it). I don't want more Bolters or more bodies. There's already enough with the Rhino and 3-4 bullet catchers.

Also that Heavy support slot is going to the Obliterators. They're stupidly good against anything not S10.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To be honest I used footslogging oblits most of the time due to no deep strike mitigation and because I wanted to fire their weapons from turn 1.

Poor plague marines, now everyone can do what they can do and they are left with plague knives and plage grenades for essentially 7 points

They can also carry 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad though...

Exactly. Theye spam special weapons better and that's more important.

Well 'ish'
10 Nurgle marines x2 melta are 190pts
5 plague marines x2 melta are 140pts

For 50pts you get twice as many bodies that are just as survivable, keeping those meltas firing.

But wait... havocs...
130pts, 5 nurgle ones as good as PM now with 4 melta

bit more of a choice now.

That's 50 points that can go elsewhere. It goes a long way. You do that twice and you got a Helbrute (though I won't use it). I don't want more Bolters or more bodies. There's already enough with the Rhino and 3-4 bullet catchers.

Also that Heavy support slot is going to the Obliterators. They're stupidly good against anything not S10.

That's 50 points you saved by cutting the squad's survivability in half. Your melta's still have to get in range and a single rhino isn't going to make up the difference.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To be honest I used footslogging oblits most of the time due to no deep strike mitigation and because I wanted to fire their weapons from turn 1.

Poor plague marines, now everyone can do what they can do and they are left with plague knives and plage grenades for essentially 7 points

They can also carry 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad though...

Exactly. Theye spam special weapons better and that's more important.

Well 'ish'
10 Nurgle marines x2 melta are 190pts
5 plague marines x2 melta are 140pts

For 50pts you get twice as many bodies that are just as survivable, keeping those meltas firing.

But wait... havocs...
130pts, 5 nurgle ones as good as PM now with 4 melta

bit more of a choice now.

That's 50 points that can go elsewhere. It goes a long way. You do that twice and you got a Helbrute (though I won't use it). I don't want more Bolters or more bodies. There's already enough with the Rhino and 3-4 bullet catchers.

Also that Heavy support slot is going to the Obliterators. They're stupidly good against anything not S10.

That's 50 points you saved by cutting the squad's survivability in half. Your melta's still have to get in range and a single rhino isn't going to make up the difference.

Why would I ever use Melta? That's for Raptors and Bikers.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To be honest I used footslogging oblits most of the time due to no deep strike mitigation and because I wanted to fire their weapons from turn 1.

Poor plague marines, now everyone can do what they can do and they are left with plague knives and plage grenades for essentially 7 points

They can also carry 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad though...

Exactly. Theye spam special weapons better and that's more important.

Well 'ish'
10 Nurgle marines x2 melta are 190pts
5 plague marines x2 melta are 140pts

For 50pts you get twice as many bodies that are just as survivable, keeping those meltas firing.

But wait... havocs...
130pts, 5 nurgle ones as good as PM now with 4 melta

bit more of a choice now.

That's 50 points that can go elsewhere. It goes a long way. You do that twice and you got a Helbrute (though I won't use it). I don't want more Bolters or more bodies. There's already enough with the Rhino and 3-4 bullet catchers.

Also that Heavy support slot is going to the Obliterators. They're stupidly good against anything not S10.

That's 50 points you saved by cutting the squad's survivability in half. Your melta's still have to get in range and a single rhino isn't going to make up the difference.

Why would I ever use Melta? That's for Raptors and Bikers.

Does it matter the example? All their special weapons want to get with 12"

I gotta say, I am very excited about this book. I am not a CSM player (Undivided Daemons for me, thanx) but I can see some really great things in this book that take CSMs on par with the Loyalists books. Heck, we might even see a meta shift if someone finds the right combo of good stuff.

I almost expect to see nothing but Death Guard & Emperors Children. Maybe even both together.
Death Guard makes Bikes and Oblits really durable.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
To be honest I used footslogging oblits most of the time due to no deep strike mitigation and because I wanted to fire their weapons from turn 1.

Poor plague marines, now everyone can do what they can do and they are left with plague knives and plage grenades for essentially 7 points

They can also carry 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad though...

Exactly. Theye spam special weapons better and that's more important.

Well 'ish'
10 Nurgle marines x2 melta are 190pts
5 plague marines x2 melta are 140pts

For 50pts you get twice as many bodies that are just as survivable, keeping those meltas firing.

But wait... havocs...
130pts, 5 nurgle ones as good as PM now with 4 melta

bit more of a choice now.

That's 50 points that can go elsewhere. It goes a long way. You do that twice and you got a Helbrute (though I won't use it). I don't want more Bolters or more bodies. There's already enough with the Rhino and 3-4 bullet catchers.

Also that Heavy support slot is going to the Obliterators. They're stupidly good against anything not S10.

That's 50 points you saved by cutting the squad's survivability in half. Your melta's still have to get in range and a single rhino isn't going to make up the difference.

Why would I ever use Melta? That's for Raptors and Bikers.

Does it matter the example? All their special weapons want to get with 12"

Not entirely, but keep in mind that Plasma Guns affect their maximum threat range and those 50 points are partly a Rhino.

I'm really excited for the black legion. I like the raptor and warp talon models a lot, so the raptors talon got me all hot and bothered, but what it was still missing was reserve manipulation, which the black legion gives it. LOVE

Honestly, if they errata chain axes to use the HH statline, berserkers will do murder. And if the World Eaters Butcher horde is anything like Khârn's, good grief will they put out the hurt. And Juggerlord is getting a new load out for me. Bloodfeeder aND a bolt pistol. Join a unit of bikes with Fearless, FC, rage, counter attack, and charge-in-opponents-turn? If you have the points throw in a second lord with the talisman and you have one heck of a melee unit.

Why would you choose bloodfeeder over the axe of blind fury though? Both essentially add +1d6 and blood feeder changes your base 3 attacks to 1d6, reduces your strength by 1 and hits you on every roll of a 1 instead of once. AoBF only costs 5 points more and is more reliable. Of course, you could take two lords and have both.

Yeah, a Deathstar of a bunch of Juggerlords from this supplement and Daemonkin sounds almost like Super Friends levels of fun.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah, a Deathstar of a bunch of Juggerlords from this supplement and Daemonkin sounds almost like Super Friends levels of fun.

 Roknar wrote:
Why would you choose bloodfeeder over the axe of blind fury though? Both essentially add +1d6 and blood feeder changes your base 3 attacks to 1d6, reduces your strength by 1 and hits you on every roll of a 1 instead of once. AoBF only costs 5 points more and is more reliable. Of course, you could take two lords and have both.

What's the wording on Bloodfeeder? The old Bloodfeeder (4th Ed. codex) didn't replace your attacks with 2D6, it added 2D6.

I asked VeteranNoob to confirm that and he said it's indeed a flat 2d6 but bonus attacks seem to be added nevertheless.

So it is putting out considerably more attacks at the exchange of not being S6/7 on the charge.

That's pretty amazing.

So, it's 3d6 attacks as it's also a daemon weapon? Taking into consideration, you also get free hatred vs 90% armies in the game, it's an average of 12-13 attacks on the charge. Or 8-9 if 2d6. Quite random though. I'd rather take the movement artifact.

 koooaei wrote:
So, it's 3d6 attacks as it's also a daemon weapon?

I think it's basically +2D6 instead of +1D6, not +2D6 ontop of the +1D6 for being a daemon weapon.

Basically they brought back the 4th Ed Bloodfeeder.

So, how too use Raptors in a WE army.

Use them (5?8?10?) starting on the board for a good chance of a T1 Assault (12"+2d6") as part of the Warband (with obsec!), or use them in the raptor talon for hopefully t2 deepstrike assault (although you need reserve and scatter roll luck and need to take a lord extra)

What about Warp Talons? They still seem pretty expensive for such a fragile unit. In a big blob with the talisman and lords they would be really killy, but if you dont get T1 the enemy will decimatze a 400+ Unit pretty fast...

oh god, after almost a decade and a half my Death Guard are finally a viable full army! and such choices we have now...

Purge detachment with Combiflamer terminators for Horde killin'

Obscenely durable Obliterators and (GASP) Mutilators that can survive a footslog

Plague Marines with an aura of debuff

Cloud of Flies! How cool is that??? our major weakness was getting outranged, and now we have heavy weapons AND a strong defence against gunlines

Speaking of Heavy Weapons: Relentless Havocs!

that's just the obvious ones, any more obscure combos people can think up?


.....squee

One thing that is worrying me is are voTLW rules right in these leaks.

If you read the WoM entry Tzeetch marked votlw units are no where near as good as the leaked stuff. No fearless, only get a better Inv if a blessing is cast etc...

But we're lead to believe nugle you get blanket fnp, fearless and khorne furious charge and fearless...

just worried

Its not a leak, its a review of a official review copy from gw

Is there any advantage of using the new WE rules instead of KDK?

I'm just wondering if the NL and IW Relic Armor has a No Daemon Prince clause in it, otherwise my NL Prince can get a 2+ save, 3+ Jink, and 5+ invul, rerolling Ones when dedicated Tzeentch.

Now i normally dont approve of the broken 2+ rerollable stuff, this one might tempt me.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So it is putting out considerably more attacks at the exchange of not being S6/7 on the charge.

That's pretty amazing.

AoBF on a lord is 3 attacks base +1 for two weapons +1 from the juggernaught + 2 from rage +1d6
Bloodfeeder is 2d6 flat but you can break it down like this for comparison:
1d6 +1 for two weapons +1 from the juggernaught + 2 from rage +1d6
So the only difference is the initial d6. 3 guaranteed vs 1-6. So on average they will have roughly the same amount of attacks.

Except blood feeder has lower strength and with that many attacks you risk rolling a few 1s with only a 50% chance of saving those.
Occasionally getting more attacks isn't much of an advantage given the disadvantages imho.
That said, if you can somehow get access to re-rolls, blood feeder does become better, since you're not likely to miss at that point while not risking to become WS1.
But on their own, AoBF is better imho. Even on a daemon prince, since the axe gives them rage and they already have 5 attacks base, so bloodfeeder only has downsides except for not lowering WS.

It might be an idea for WE to add an unmarked CS divination sorcerer just for prescience. Juggerfriends and misfortune+prescience would pack quite a punch. Now if only you could add the rage relic on top of that for the sorc.