Feel im being "That Guy" but not intentionally.

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**Yarium**

Re-check my post above; it might not be due to you winning that they are denying games with you!

HOWEVER, from your description, they are using old lists and old forces from really the bottom of the barrel. They're still effectively playing 3rd edition style lists. This is a fun way to play, but ANYTHING in the game is going to give these lists trouble. Foot Slogging Chaos Space Marines/Plague Marines are just... just... horrible. I mean, they do some things well, but without any manoeuvrability they can be taken apart by any force that can move around better than they (which your force is far more capable of).

I'm assuming that the Nids had no Flyrants or Mawlocs or Tyrannocytes, so again, same issue. Same with Orks; I'm guessing he was just foot slogging it, or just one or two light vehicles. Cleansing Flame will indeed CLEANSE the area.

Add on top of this it sounds like a few times your opponents got really unlucky (Typhus dying to Perils, Nids unable to get off their psychic stuff REALLY hurts them). Like stated, try a normal CAD detachment if they are unwilling to change their stuff around, and try not deep striking in.

Good luck!

**Dark_Apostle_Spartachris**

Inquisitor Gumbit wrote:
Ok well,

a few examples of recent games, i played an chaos player who used mainly nurgle marines some possessed and a few cultists a hellbrute and typhus, i roll for first turn terminators come in turn 1 i also rolled on santic for psychic and got cleansing flame, the dreadknight shunts forward next to the cultists and everthing else moves up in cover, psychic phase i killed about half the first cultist squad using the librarians cleansing flame (deepstriked in turn 1 with the terminators) the cultists end up running off the board, shooting phase the dreadknight flames the second cultist squad and kills the majority of them and the terminators start shooting the plague marines with typhus in. his turn he moves about shoots everything at the dreadknight causing 1 wound and loses typhus to a perils of the warp roll. on my next turn the purifiers are in range of one marine squad my terminators in the range of another and the dreadknight takes on the hellbrute, terminators shoot and then charge plague marines kill around 6 of the 10 to no losses, dreadknight kills the hellbrute, the purifiers shoot/cleansing flame the other marine squad. by the end of turn 2 he has 2 full units and a few lone survivors and i have lost around 5 marines and a wound on the dreadknight.

Another chaos army used mainly marines with a hellbrute lord and sorceror, i outmatched him in the psychic phase my terminators killed his chosen marines lord and possesed squad, the dreadknight killed half a marine squad and held them in combat for a few turns, the purifiers killed another marine squad whilst the interceptors jumped around the board for objectives. he struggled to kill any of my guys very well he had very few heavy weapons.

Nids never made it to combat with me due to shooting them and lost out totally on the psychic phase,

daemons well grey knights are good against them naturally and he was a really good sport knowing he was likely not going to do very well (have played this guy a few times).

Normal marines fared fairly well focused on the dreadknight turn 1 and reduced him down to 1 would should have killed him but some bad rolls on his part then on my turn i striked the terminators in behind his gun line and from here out he started to lose models fairly fast the dreadknight killed the dreadnought and some marines whilst he focused on my power armor marines killing them all, this was one of the closer battles with only the dreadknight and terminators/librarian surviving.

an ork army i just shot to pieces in turn 2 and when he finnally got into combat he had too few models to effectively kill too many guys.

It is possible they are not used to fighting grey knights i do tend to see very few low AP weapons and they usually struggle most with the DK or the Terminators which most people tend to focus on leaving my power armoured marines untouched to move up the board, again in the psychic phase they are usually rolling with less dice than i can generate which puts them at a disadvantage, I feel they don't like the dreadknight and also the fact i can deepstrike turn 1 and also use the Shunt mechanic to move the interceptors and the dreadknight into their lines to support the terminators....if i roll for first turn i usually do not shunt up and only use terminators deepstrike.

It sounds like your meta is 50% nightmare matchups VS GK and the others arent running competitive lists honestly. There's not much you can do unless you nerf yourself even harder.

**Verviedi**

Here is the part where I shall probe your reports.

Inquisitor Gumbit wrote:
Ok well,

a few examples of recent games, i played an chaos player who used mainly nurgle marines some possessed and a few cultists a hellbrute and typhus, i roll for first turn terminators come in turn 1 i also rolled on santic for psychic and got cleansing flame, the dreadknight shunts forward next to the cultists and everthing else moves up in cover, psychic phase i killed about half the first cultist squad using the librarians cleansing flame (deepstriked in turn 1 with the terminators) the cultists end up running off the board, shooting phase the dreadknight flames the second cultist squad and kills the majority of them and the terminators start shooting the plague marines with typhus in. his turn he moves about shoots everything at the dreadknight

This person fails at target priority.

causing 1 wound

Did somebody say "case study?

and loses typhus to a perils of the warp roll.

Wait, since when is Typhus a psyker? And that is unfortunate. Random chance killed 15% of his list.

on my next turn the purifiers are in range of one marine squad my terminators in the range of another and the dreadknight takes on the hellbrute, terminators shoot and then charge plague marines kill around 6 of the 10 to no losses, dreadknight kills the hellbrute, the purifiers shoot/cleansing flame the other marine squad. by the end of turn 2 he has 2 full units and a few lone survivors and i have lost around 5 marines and a wound on the dreadknight.

This is a classic example of someone building a list that can't just handle a single 2+ MC. Chaos is weak, your list is weak, but his was worse. Nothing bad here.

Another chaos army used mainly marines with a hellbrute lord and sorceror, i outmatched him in the psychic phase my terminators killed his chosen marines lord and possesed squad, the dreadknight killed half a marine squad and held them in combat for a few turns, the purifiers killed another marine squad whilst the interceptors jumped around the board for objectives. he struggled to kill any of my guys very well he had very few heavy weapons.

First of all, he took poor units, and didn't take weapons capable of actually damaging you. The fault is his.

Nids never made it to combat with me due to shooting them

What?!

and lost out totally on the psychic phase,

This has happened to me, I know how it feels, but Nids can put lots of psykers on the board. List issue most likely. What did he actually run?

daemons well grey knights are good against them naturally and he was a really good sport knowing he was likely not going to do very well (have played this guy a few times).

Good sportsmanship is good. This tautology is a tautology.

Normal marines fared fairly well focused on the dreadknight turn 1 and reduced him down to 1 would should have killed him but some bad rolls on his part then on my turn i striked the terminators in behind his gun line and from here out he started to lose models fairly fast the dreadknight killed the dreadnought and some marines whilst he focused on my power armor marines killing them all, this was one of the closer battles with only the dreadknight and terminators/librarian surviving.

What models did he actually run? This seems reasonable, he got outplayed.

an ork army i just shot to pieces in turn 2 and when he finnally got into combat he had too few models to effectively kill too many guys.

How is this possible? I don't see that much shooting in your list...

It is possible they are not used to fighting grey knights i do tend to see very few low AP weapons and they usually struggle most with the DK or the Terminators which most people tend to focus on leaving my power armoured marines untouched to move up the board, again in the psychic phase they are usually rolling with less dice than i can generate which puts them at a disadvantage, I feel they don't like the dreadknight and also the fact i can deepstrike turn 1 and also use the Shunt mechanic to move the interceptors and the dreadknight into their lines to support the terminators....if i roll for first turn i usually do not shunt up and only use terminators deepstrike.

Dreadknights are tough but beatable. Also, your opponents are building their lists poorly if they have so few low AP weapons. Turn one deep strike isn't broken in the slightest. Neither is Shunt, honestly.

**Davor**

Lord Kragan wrote:
Davor wrote:
Here is a thought. How is your attitude? Maybe it's not the list? What are the players actually complaining about?

You never did say why?

Davor, are you for real? Dear god, he said it twice: he never loses and wrecks the gak out of them. Therefore people are avoiding getting crushed.

" so far i have yet to lose a game against my local players...."

"i usually wreck everyone i play against and people are starting to avoid me in my local club"

I know you like to assume the worst of people but this one comment is ridiculous.

Really? There can't be another reason besides just loosing all the time? You know there is three sides to ever story. We don't even have the full details to his side of the story.

That said, I don't think the original poster did anything wrong from what he said. What he said makes no sense. The only explanation left is the group he plays with are cry babies who keep loosing all the time against a fluffy not powerful list that could be demolished in any tourney scene? But then again that would be thinking the worst of people right? There could be another reason why people are upset, not just because they loose all the time.

But thank you for trying to make me look like TFG now.

**CrownAxe**

Davor wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
Davor wrote:
Here is a thought. How is your attitude? Maybe it's not the list? What are the players actually complaining about?

You never did say why?

Davor, are you for real? Dear god, he said it twice: he never loses and wrecks the gak out of them. Therefore people are avoiding getting crushed.

" so far i have yet to lose a game against my local players...."

"i usually wreck everyone i play against and people are starting to avoid me in my local club"

I know you like to assume the worst of people but this one comment is ridiculous.

Really? There can't be another reason besides just loosing all the time? You know there is three sides to ever story. We don't even have the full details to his side of the story.

That said, I don't think the original poster did anything wrong from what he said. What he said makes no sense. The only explanation left is the group he plays with are cry babies who keep loosing all the time against a fluffy not powerful list that could be demolished in any tourney scene? But then again that would be thinking the worst of people right? There could be another reason why people are upset, not just because they loose all the time.

But thank you for trying to make me look like TFG now.

Well it is rather presumptuous to assume that the OP is just a jerk instead of accepting that his opponents might just be petty

**Talizvar**

I would agree that what the OP is facing is rather bottom of the barrel army lists.
Grey Knights are a good middle of the road all-rounder but I feel it's weakness is hordes due to their low model count / expensive nature.
The "cleansing flame" IS a good deterrent to that weakness.

I would expect "horde" Nids or Orks would utterly destroy his list with a little bit of work.

The Grey Knights have a pretty strong psychic phase so I could see the Daemon player not getting the summoning rolling as well as he could have.

Heck, a bit of plasma, melta or lascannon could put the hurt on his expensive/short on numbers list.

Tau, Eldar, Necrons and I think even Imperial Guard would have many tools to bring this army down that we are not hearing about.

I would say he has hit the sweet spot in the "rock-paper-scissors" of opponent armies.

**Marmatag**

CrownAxe wrote:
Davor wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
Davor wrote:
Here is a thought. How is your attitude? Maybe it's not the list? What are the players actually complaining about?

You never did say why?

Davor, are you for real? Dear god, he said it twice: he never loses and wrecks the gak out of them. Therefore people are avoiding getting crushed.

" so far i have yet to lose a game against my local players...."

"i usually wreck everyone i play against and people are starting to avoid me in my local club"

I know you like to assume the worst of people but this one comment is ridiculous.

Really? There can't be another reason besides just loosing all the time? You know there is three sides to ever story. We don't even have the full details to his side of the story.

That said, I don't think the original poster did anything wrong from what he said. What he said makes no sense. The only explanation left is the group he plays with are cry babies who keep loosing all the time against a fluffy not powerful list that could be demolished in any tourney scene? But then again that would be thinking the worst of people right? There could be another reason why people are upset, not just because they loose all the time.

But thank you for trying to make me look like TFG now.

Well it is rather presumptuous to assume that the OP is just a jerk instead of accepting that his opponents might just be petty

Davor's comment seemed totally innocuous to me; I did not get the impression he was suggesting the OP is a jerk. You can be a wonderful person and still not pick up on some basic social cues.

**icn1982**

Could it be that you are playing GK? I know some players will see certain armies as cheesie/op etc without taking the time to understand what is cheesie/op about them and assume that all armies of that race are broken.

The fact that you are winning would reinforce this belief and most likely cause them not to look any closer than 'oh, its a GK' army. I've seen this happen in MTG an awful lot - you play a certain colour combination, you must have just copied the list from the internet, without actually considering what's in the deck - the same thing could be happening with your GK

**AnomanderRake**

To the OP: As far as I can tell the basic problem here is that the GK are an out-of-context problem for your playgroup; it isn't a particularly competitive list, but it's loaded with mechanics they don't seem to be prepared for. I'd say try to back off on the stranger/more unique elements of the GK book, then try to bring them back in gradually to let your playgroup get used to them rather than dropping all of this in at once.

Try a CAD using Strike squads rather than Purifiers, a Captain/GM rather than a Librarian, and make the Dreadknight walk, for instance. Without the excess Mastery levels and the psychic hood you'll be able to control Typhus and the Tyranids through volume of dice without completely shutting them down, without the shunt generator they'll get a chance to see how killing a Dreadknight works without it playing jump-scare, without Cleansing Flame you won't be shortcutting horde armies as hard, and without the NSF they'll have space to get their balance.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be using these things, but if your playgroup is having a hard time with them try and deconstruct it and let them see bits and pieces in motion before putting all the unique mechanics on the table at once.

If they're unwilling to learn to fight an out-of-context army after that you may want to reconsider playing with them. Any fix has got to come from both sides, and if they're going to try to make you not play/switch armies because the Grey Knights are too powerful for them they're the unreasonable side of this.

**Davor**

CrownAxe wrote:
[Well it is rather presumptuous to assume that the OP is just a jerk instead of accepting that his opponents might just be petty

Why would he be a jerk is the only other alternative? How about some people still claim that Grey Knights are over powered like in the 5th edition days? That just sticks to them. How about he is playing a casual game but other people are trying to win with a competitive army but still keep loosing since he is really good but humble player but the people are so upset loosing to a "casual" army when they are playing a competitive army?

I have come back to playing 40K and playing 3 different people playing different ways because I am playing "their way" they said all the other people were "playing the wrong way". Is that making someone a jerk? No they just think they are correct. Maybe he is correcting them in a good way but people still seem to get upset when they are correct and proven wrong, will not want to play that person. Again, he beat them humbly but people don't like to be proven wrong even when they are proven wrong. Again doesn't make him a jerk.

As you can see, there are many reasons why people will be upset or the very least unhappy playing him.

**Inquisitor Gumbit**

Davor wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
[Well it is rather presumptuous to assume that the OP is just a jerk instead of accepting that his opponents might just be petty

Why would he be a jerk is the only other alternative? How about some people still claim that Grey Knights are over powered like in the 5th edition days? That just sticks to them. How about he is playing a casual game but other people are trying to win with a competitive army but still keep loosing since he is really good but humble player but the people are so upset loosing to a "casual" army when they are playing a competitive army?

I have come back to playing 40K and playing 3 different people playing different ways because I am playing "their way" they said all the other people were "playing the wrong way". Is that making someone a jerk? No they just think they are correct. Maybe he is correcting them in a good way but people still seem to get upset when they are correct and proven wrong, will not want to play that person. Again, he beat them humbly but people don't like to be proven wrong even when they are proven wrong. Again doesn't make him a jerk.

As you can see, there are many reasons why people will be upset or the very least unhappy playing him.

As a rule for the club you must have your army book, a rulebook available and also your list written down i show my list at the start of the fight and allow them to check my codex, the guys generally know the rules fairly well and if not we have the rulebooks to check in with. my feeling is that as a newer member of the group who has come in and started to do well against their current lists(who have played for a while together) i may have upset some of the hierarchy of the local club (i have heard one of the guys mention he always beats this other guy and how his army is usually better than XXXXs army), the main complaint is the dreadknight they hate it and complain how strong he is. as mentioned earlier they lack any large number of high AP weapons to deal with it, and the armies i see look more like they would fall into 5th edition better than 7th.

**Waaaghpower**

Something worth pointing out: Your opponents (At least, the CSM guy,) are making obvious mistakes in list-building. If he took Typhus, and Cultists, but DIDN'T upgrade the Cultists into Plague Zombies, he's just not playing his list right. (It's free, and you lose a pistol shot in exchange for 4+ FNP and Fearless.)

**Davor**

Inquisitor Gumbit wrote:
Davor wrote:
CrownAxe wrote:
[Well it is rather presumptuous to assume that the OP is just a jerk instead of accepting that his opponents might just be petty

Why would he be a jerk is the only other alternative? How about some people still claim that Grey Knights are over powered like in the 5th edition days? That just sticks to them. How about he is playing a casual game but other people are trying to win with a competitive army but still keep loosing since he is really good but humble player but the people are so upset loosing to a "casual" army when they are playing a competitive army?

I have come back to playing 40K and playing 3 different people playing different ways because I am playing "their way" they said all the other people were "playing the wrong way". Is that making someone a jerk? No they just think they are correct. Maybe he is correcting them in a good way but people still seem to get upset when they are correct and proven wrong, will not want to play that person. Again, he beat them humbly but people don't like to be proven wrong even when they are proven wrong. Again doesn't make him a jerk.

As you can see, there are many reasons why people will be upset or the very least unhappy playing him.

As a rule for the club you must have your army book, a rulebook available and also your list written down i show my list at the start of the fight and allow them to check my codex, the guys generally know the rules fairly well and if not we have the rulebooks to check in with. my feeling is that as a newer member of the group who has come in and started to do well against their current lists(who have played for a while together) i may have upset some of the hierarchy of the local club (i have heard one of the guys mention he always beats this other guy and how his army is usually better than XXXXs army), the main complaint is the dreadknight they hate it and complain how strong he is. as mentioned earlier they lack any large number of high AP weapons to deal with it, and the armies i see look more like they would fall into 5th edition better than 7th.

You are not to blame at all. From reading what you said, you are not to blame at all. You are making a soft list, for what ever reason they are making softer lists than you. You either will have to adapt to their even weaker playing style, or just take note that it is really their issue of playing a weaker game than normal and you are not TFG. What to do? That would be the question now.

As was said before, speak to the group. All you can ask is how they play and what are their expectations. You being the "new guy" you really can't say they are playing wrong since this is how they play and like to play. So sadly if you want to keep playing there, you will have to make your army even weaker to "their meta" or "how they like to play". Just remember you are NOT TFG in no way shape or form. You wanting them to have fun as well shows you are not TFG either.

You will have to accept that these people are just being selfish and that you need to play their way to get some games in. Can you go else where and get games where people are more understanding than this group? While they might be good or great guys, they just see their view only and for what ever reason can't or won't accept any other way of playing.

**SagesStone**

Being that guy is a state of mind, not the list you play in most cases. It's how you act. Talk to them about why they don't want to play, should all be able to work something out.

**BrianDavion**

sounds to me like your local meta consists of footslogging marines with few heavy weapons, hell my inital feeling would be to refer to it as a "starter set meta" and yeah there is very little you can do. one idea might be drop the dreadknight, and downgrade the terminators to strike squads with Rhinos. this'll at least mean, mostly, an end to the massive amounts of 2+ armor saves, which it seems your group is ill equiped to deal with. although I'm not sure they'd even be able to handle the rhinos added to that list. your local meta needs armor crackers. if the marine player ever got a unit of grav cents he'd proably hand you your head.

another idea, if you think you could have fun with it, is to suggest occasional "list swap games" where you play with their army/list an d they play with yours.

this of course would require a degree of trust

**Lord Kragan**

Honestly? Don't play with that group anymore.

No, seriously. You're bringing in an extremely soft list, almost a whole tier below to what GK can do, and it's not that much in the current meta. They are bringing lists that even fething Traditio would have a fighting chance against (just to make sure, did the marine player bring 10-man tactical squads with flamers and missile launchers on rhinos?). If they haven't learnt anything in two editions worth of 40k (not saying that they become WAAC cheesemongers, but learn a trick or two more for hell's sake) nor do well built lists even by 5th-ed standards, then you shouldn't feel bad for actually knowing to play warhammer as it is now. You shouldn't force yourself THAT much and sink your game to these troglodites levels.

**icn1982**

Looking at some of the comments, I am wondering what happened to the 'arms race' that I used to have when I first started playing. Specifically, Opponent would get a new unit that would dominate because I didn't have anything to deal with it, few weeks later (depending on what was needed) I would bring something that could deal with the threat and/or bring something they weren't prepared to deal with, so they would bring something to deal with my new unit - rinse and repeat. This is how our armies grew, out of getting items we needed in order to deal with the new threat, or by us getting that cool looking unit and the opponent then having to react.

Does this still happen, or have prices gotten to the point that this is no longer viable.

**SagesStone**

Still happens and depends on the area, but there's a point you reach in the gw hobby where either you keep chasing the dragon for that arms race or you take a step back and appreciate it on a different level not as subject to swinging power levels.

**morgoth**

Lord Kragan wrote:
-telling a guy that, as a witchfire, you had to roll to hit that psychic screech (I don't care if it doesn't have profile, treat it as assault 1, it is a witchfire-and there had been no FAQ yet)

I have personally considered every single person who denied auto-hit psychic scream to be a butthurt TFG.

I fething hate it when people twist the rules which are so fething obvious in the book - and yes, I realize it's not obvious to everyone, but that shouldn't be my problem.

Now that it's been FAQ'd, at least it's clear for everyone.

**Lord Kragan**

morgoth wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
-telling a guy that, as a witchfire, you had to roll to hit that psychic screech (I don't care if it doesn't have profile, treat it as assault 1, it is a witchfire-and there had been no FAQ yet)

I have personally considered every single person who denied auto-hit psychic scream to be a butthurt TFG.

I fething hate it when people twist the rules which are so fething obvious in the book - and yes, I realize it's not obvious to everyone, but that shouldn't be my problem.

Now that it's been FAQ'd, at least it's clear for everyone.

I have considered that as a witchfire you roll to hit. That's not twisting the rules, that's playing them as straight as posible. The rulings for psychic scream were a mess, not obvious, which is why plenty of people (specially the Miniwargaming guys) did roll to hit a dice. And you know that instance? I was casting psychic scream too. And they somehow said that I was twisting rules in my favor at that game, even though I'd go from a sure-fire method to deal with that invisible grav-star to a 1-in-6 crapshoot, even though I had a BS4 sorcerer versus his BS5 tigurius.

But yeah, at least it's clear now.

**Strg Alt**

I was in a similar situation as you a few years ago. A few people and me participated in a Blood Bowl league. I chose Nurgle Chaos for my team and my opponents were Humans, Orcs, Skaven, Wood Elves, Chaos, Dark Elves, Nurgle Chaos and Chaos Dwarfs. Out of twelve games I lost two and won ten. I maintained a friendly attitude during and after the games. If I was victorious, I told my opponent what he could have done better to improve his Blood Bowl skills but not in a condescending tone. However, over time there were a lot of sore losers who spread false rumours that my team would murder their players. At this time three of my players had Mighty Blow. In my lineup were no players with skills like Dirty Player, Claw or Pile on. In the end most of the other players refused to play against me because of my killer reputation and their immature pettiness.
All of my unwilling opponents were younger than me and rather inexperienced at this game. I talked about this with the league commisioner and a possible solution to this problem would have been to create two leagues and not just one. One league for veteran players and the other one for beginners.

You told us that you wrecked their armies without breaking a sweat. This means that you are far more experienced than all of your opponents. My advice for you would be this:
1: Forget those people at this game store. They already showed you the cold shoulder and you just waste your time going there anyway.
2: You need a friend at your age as an opponent who also has the same approach to wargaming as you have. If you have no friends, you are clearly out of luck. Otherwise introduce a friend of yours into the wargaming hobby. Give him one of your other armies and have a go.
3: Play at home. Just build a gaming table & terrain. You can now even sit down, eat, drink, go to the toilet and don´t have to pay attention all the time because some jerk could steal your miniatures.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Verviedi wrote:

and loses typhus to a perils of the warp roll.

Wait, since when is Typhus a psyker? And that is unfortunate. Random chance killed 15% of his list.

Since 4th Edition.

**icn1982**

Just thinking, depending on the opponents, suggest switching armies, allow 10-15mins to modify armies with what's available, then play. They get to see how you use their armies tactically and what a difference minor changes to their army can make.

**Davor**

icn1982 wrote:Looking at some of the comments, I am wondering what happened to the 'arms race' that I used to have when I first started playing. Specifically, Opponent would get a new unit that would dominate because I didn't have anything to deal with it, few weeks later (depending on what was needed) I would bring something that could deal with the threat and/or bring something they weren't prepared to deal with, so they would bring something to deal with my new unit - rinse and repeat. This is how our armies grew, out of getting items we needed in order to deal with the new threat, or by us getting that cool looking unit and the opponent then having to react.

Does this still happen, or have prices gotten to the point that this is no longer viable.

This is actually a great thing if it's not that GW priced themselves out. Playing to have fun and not worry about the "arms race" is absolutely awesome not to deal with. That is one of the WORST things about GW games of Fantasy and 40K. The arms race is what ruins the game and becomes "pay to play". So if this is true this is a "non arms race league" embrace it unless that is not your play style.

So if this is the case you will have to explain that your builds are not an "arms race" build and it is fluffy and not a very strong list. If that is not the case you will still have to talk to them and see what the issue is. Either way, as was said, talk to them politely and see what the issues are.

**Galef**

Honestly, it just sounds like you have a very relaxed meta. CSM and Orks are fairly bottom tier (although Traiotrs Legions has thankfully changed that for CSM).

Your Daemon opponent puzzles me though. I always find it funny when players assume GKs have the advantage against Daemons. Sure they get extra bonuses, but in my experience (as both Daemon & GK player) is that a moderately optimized Daemon list played by someone who actually knows the army will WRECK an equally optimized GK list.
So in the case of that particular player, it sounds like they just don't know their army just yet and are playing into the "stereotype" that GKs always beat Daemons

-