Thoughts on the Vlka Fenryka.

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**robotmankiller7**

Actually, Space wolves can break the Force org rules. Their HQ rule says they must take an HQ for every 1000 points, regardless of the Force Allocation chart being used. So once you get above 3k or 4k points (depending on that Wolf kin ruling), you can just keep taking another HQ every thousand points, because the army rules bypass the Force Org chart.

**Shadowbrand**

Noob question.

Where would one find these rules?

**Unusual Suspect**

There are links in the News & Rumors section, specifically the Forgeworld rumors thread. You might need to do a bit of searching, but they're there.

**Dakka Wolf**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The 13th Company weren't Wulfen when the Battle of Prospero started. And i dont recall them being in A Thousand Sons at all beyond maybe a mention of some of them mutating during the fighting as a result of sorcery.

Either way, there either weren't any, or there weren't enough of them for the worst part of the Space Wolves to be given 30k rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
WAIT, Sorry. I forgot about that story where the Raptors (who are also awful mutants) meat the Wulfen.

Read the recent Leman Russ novel.
Wulfen were around at the height of the Great Crusade.

**NivlacSupreme**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
sm3g wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Am I wrong or can they not play above 3000 points? Because of the HQ thing.

Would it be 4000? Russ' Wolves count as an HQ and do not take up an HQ slot so I assume they count (don't see anything stating they wouldn't).

Player a game against these guys last night, 2500 Alpha Legion vs Space Puppies.
He ran 2 15 man troops (what ever theyre called)
1 5 man support squad with plasma in a rhino
1 Land Raider with a 5 man Terminator (the space wolves ones) with claws
1 Land raider with 5 stock standard vets, Russ, and a plain Centurion
1 Vindicator
Gotta say, they're pretty deadly once they make combat, I was running a Recon company list so was set up for mostly mid to close range combat myself.
Russ is just an absolute prick to deal with, he charged into my squad with Alpharius in it. And while I did hold him up for a solid 3 turns....it really is an uphill battle, hitting on 6's with a primarch fething sucks.

The whole thing neads FAQed. It's not clear whether Geigor or the other guy count as praetors.

Whats not clear? They both have Master of the Legion.

Not all characters with MotL are Praetor Equivalents though, and it matters for the purpose of taking Fenrisians Wolves. Some people will want them to count as Praetors ruleswise so they can accompany them with pet wolves for coolness' sake. Currently they technically can't.

I must admit that it'd be kind if FW come out and say that Geigor is intended to not be able to take Wolves, even though his page shows him accompanied with one.

I want to know if I can use him as a mandatory HQ.

**hordrak**

Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

**NivlacSupreme**

hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

**hotsauceman1**

Read the rules, not sure how I feel about the whole Grey Slayer thing.
Its fluffy, but, they seem to lack some real punch. If the 1-in-5 could take a regular weapon, they would be better.
I hate the constriction TBH, I feel as if it should be my choice if I want it to be that constricted.

**hordrak**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

**Matt.Kingsley**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Read the rules, not sure how I feel about the whole Grey Slayer thing.
Its fluffy, but, they seem to lack some real punch. If the 1-in-5 could take a regular weapon, they would be better.
I hate the constriction TBH, I feel as if it should be my choice if I want it to be that constricted.

What sort of punch do they lack? Every single member can take 5pt power weapons!
Unless of course you're talking about special/heavy weapons... to which I say they're already a better Tactical Squad, and they're Vlka Fenryka and are all about the combat.

And welcome to the world of the Word Bearers where you need to take a mandatory compulsory Centurion/Chaplain in addition to your compulsory HQ no matter the points level. It's a bit more limiting than the WB I must admit, but it is a bit fluffy (though it dicks over Assault or Breacher based lists... really they should have just made Tactical Squads have the Support Squad rule).

**hobojebus**

Nothing stops you taking a vet squad if you want heavy weapons, grey slayers are troop they shouldn't invalidate an elites choice.

**Titanicus**

hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.

**hordrak**

Titanicus wrote:
hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.

Well, then we've just to wait for Forgeworld to clarify the subject.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

If it says regardless of Force Allocation chart, and it does, it wound mean period, there is no cap at 3k because you take HQs every 1k points regardless.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dakka Wolf wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The 13th Company weren't Wulfen when the Battle of Prospero started. And i dont recall them being in A Thousand Sons at all beyond maybe a mention of some of them mutating during the fighting as a result of sorcery.

Either way, there either weren't any, or there weren't enough of them for the worst part of the Space Wolves to be given 30k rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
WAIT, Sorry. I forgot about that story where the Raptors (who are also awful mutants) meat the Wulfen.

Read the recent Leman Russ novel.
Wulfen were around at the height of the Great Crusade.

As much as I would like to read more about the setting, I admit that I greatly dislike the Wulfen, so probably wont read it. I'll take your word for it though.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Titanicus wrote:
hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.

Where does it say you can break the FOC?

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Titanicus wrote:
hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.
Where does it say you can break the FOC?

Spoiler:

**sm3g**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Titanicus wrote:
hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.
Where does it say you can break the FOC?

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/EPtT0e1.jpg

I think you are right tbh!
Otherwise they'd have issues running things like Leviathan as well.

**Ffyllotek**

Question with Warrior's Mettle: how does it work, if it works, with attached ICs / Cs (apothecaries for example)?

**Thanatos73**

Ffyllotek wrote:
Question with Warrior's Mettle: how does it work, if it works, with attached ICs / Cs (apothecaries for example)?

The way I read it, it doesn't work if you have attached characters without the rule. They can't charge after running and Warrior's Mettle doesn't give the attached characters the ability to. Now if the rest of the squad shoots and the character doesn't they should be able to.

It really needs to be faq'd by FW. I could see the intent of not having the ability to run and charge with characters attached as the Grey Slayers don't pay for the ability. But big blob squads scream for Apothecaries.

**Ffyllotek**

I guess the difference with apothecaries could be that they are characters not IC's, so are considered part of the squad for rules purposes - but iron priests clearly don't get the benefit :(

**Thanatos73**

Apothecaries still don't have the special rule in their profile. The wording specifies models with this rule. I just want to know if this stops the rest of the squad from doing it.

**Matt.Kingsley**

The way I read it the unit can still charge after firing bolters if ICs and Apothecaries have joined the unit, as long as the IC/Apothecary hasn't fired a non pistol/assault weapon themselves.
They wouldn't be able to charge after running though, because the IC/Apothecary would still be affected by the rule saying they can't.

**hobojebus**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The way I read it the unit can still charge after firing bolters if ICs and Apothecaries have joined the unit, as long as the IC/Apothecary hasn't fired a non pistol/assault weapon themselves.
They wouldn't be able to charge after running though, because the IC/Apothecary would still be affected by the rule saying they can't.

That's how I thought it'd work as well.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Give the apothecary a Volkite Charger then, good chance for extra wounds, and its an Assault Weapon.

**Magerdanu**

sm3g wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Titanicus wrote:
hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.
Where does it say you can break the FOC?

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/EPtT0e1.jpg

I think you are right tbh!
Otherwise they'd have issues running things like Leviathan as well.

You ARE right. Suddenly the Wolvs are "beatsticks" the Legion.

You can have deathstars made of characters, superfriends Legion style. I think I'll take my Forgelord, Siege Breaker, Praetor, Praetor, Russ death of doom and phosphex. Primus medicaes for all your wolf terminators anyone?

**Titanicus**

Magerdanu wrote:
sm3g wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Titanicus wrote:
hordrak wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
hordrak wrote:
Man, I thought native english sperakers should have no problems with that. The wolves must take an HQ for every 1000 pts, but as the AoD has a maximum of 3 HQ. You can play SW in 3000+ games, but you have to take 3 HQ. You are forced to max your HQs, but you can't exceed FOC limitations. No 4+ HQ, no "up to 3000 only".

Does it say that or is that your interpretation?

I think it's obvious. The AoD FOC has a maximum of 3HQs, you can't go beyond that. You are forced to take 1 for every 1000 pts, but can't take more than 3, therefore in 3000+ games you have to take all 3 slots, while other legions can go with one compulsory slot. You can't get more than 3 slots by any means. It isn't said anywhere, but it isn't said either that they can get more than 3 HQs.

It litterally says in the rule must take 1 hq per 1000 points regardless of the force organization chart in use. So no you are not capped at 3hqs unless you are hinder 3k. After 3k you must continue to take hq choices per 1000 points but you are allowed to break the foc.
Where does it say you can break the FOC?

Spoiler:

http://i.imgur.com/EPtT0e1.jpg

I think you are right tbh!
Otherwise they'd have issues running things like Leviathan as well.

You ARE right. Suddenly the Wolvs are "beatsticks" the Legion.

You can have deathstars made of characters, superfriends Legion style. I think I'll take my Forgelord, Siege Breaker, Praetor, Praetor, Russ death of doom and phosphex. Primus medicaes for all your wolf terminators anyone?

We'll you'd also need to be playing 5-6k of ppints to field that and will lose it to 1 vindicators shot lol. Character starts where every model is 150 points are really bad especially when you aren't custodes with reroll invulnerable and t5. Remember you can't optionally break the foc but you must break it to meet the requirements. So at 1-2k you have flexibility but at 3k+ you are capped at points/1000 rounding up hqs so at 4k you can and must take 4 but no more.

**Thanatos73**

Wolves have always been beatsticks, it's kinda their thing. The old 3rd Edition Codex also required them to take HQ's above the force org chart. They are lead by great heroes adding to their sagas so the need to have multiples represented.

**sturguard**

Play games at 1999 or 2999

**hordrak**

No matter who is correct, this issue will come up only at very large games and they are rather rare, so the SW will most likely run the same 2-3HQs, as the other legions.
Changing the topic a little bit - what's the general opinion on frost weapons? good choice or overpriced?

**hobojebus**

Frost claws are pretty awesome str 5 with shred, frost axes not so much your better of taking a power fist.

Great frost weapons I'm not sure on yet.