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Hah the things we assume

I like your brother's army the best thing about Orks has always been their ridiculousness sticking out like a sore thumb amidst the sea of serious grimdark

Personally I'm trying to think of modelling opportunities for your Amazonians. Depending on how 'boob-armour' you want them you could either use 3rd party (or perhaps Sisters of Silence) heads swapped onto standard Marine/Skitarii/IG units, or do fun stuff with AoS Witch Elves (although those models are expensive).

Personally, I really like the idea of subtly swapping female heads onto Skitarii stuff, especially creepier stuff like Kataphrons and Ruststalkers. Something about these twisted creepy clockwork soldiers all being women (if you look closely) appeals to me as a counter to the usual depiction of women in fantasy IPs. 40k is pretty messed up. I'm fairly certain that if Tech Priest A is far enough from human he'll happily transform vast swathes of his population into technobiological soldiers he's not going to have qualms over what reproductive organs his stock has...

That is just my usual preference from grimdarkness coming through though

GodDamUser wrote:


Guard/Tau works and is easy, you have the option of converting the Guard to be fully intergrated and use just tau rules, or do an allied army of Tau/Guard

I dunno... I mean I think its more telling about her personality if she just took to the Tau command naturally rather than through indoctrination. It shows that she was in need of a purpose and found one within the Tau and took to it with renewed vigor.
But both work! Humans live roughly twice as long as a Tau on average giving her plenty of time to gain respect, potentially 2 or 3 service terms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Hah the things we assume

I like your brother's army the best thing about Orks has always been their ridiculousness sticking out like a sore thumb amidst the sea of serious grimdark

Personally I'm trying to think of modelling opportunities for your Amazonians. Depending on how 'boob-armour' you want them you could either use 3rd party (or perhaps Sisters of Silence) heads swapped onto standard Marine/Skitarii/IG units, or do fun stuff with AoS Witch Elves (although those models are expensive).

Personally, I really like the idea of subtly swapping female heads onto Skitarii stuff, especially creepier stuff like Kataphrons and Ruststalkers. Something about these twisted creepy clockwork soldiers all being women (if you look closely) appeals to me as a counter to the usual depiction of women in fantasy IPs. 40k is pretty messed up. I'm fairly certain that if Tech Priest A is far enough from human he'll happily transform vast swathes of his population into technobiological soldiers he's not going to have qualms over what reproductive organs his stock has...

That is just my usual preference from grimdarkness coming through though

I dunno about boob armor, the space marine chest plates look like they have a lot of empty space XD
Should work just fine as is, otherwise there boobs would be housed a mile out from there bodies!

I like the grim dark world but I must admit I have an addiction to cute stuff. Another thing that brings me to the Tau and Ratlings... They is adorables.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
These are some kickass ideas

I think you've hit on an excellent idea with the 'Amazonian' thing. Just drop the whole 'Space Marine' moniker from it and it works perfectly. A vain Tech Priest that thought he'd make an entire world of technologically and biologically augmented female warriors. Use Space Marine rules, but they're actually just differently augmented

You could really go to town on creepy conversions too. Feminine models with various cybernetic enhancements as befits a Tech Priest

Leave it to Ynead to make a concept that was my second choice go to my first

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
These are some kickass ideas

I think you've hit on an excellent idea with the 'Amazonian' thing. Just drop the whole 'Space Marine' moniker from it and it works perfectly. A vain Tech Priest that thought he'd make an entire world of technologically and biologically augmented female warriors. Use Space Marine rules, but they're actually just differently augmented

You could really go to town on creepy conversions too. Feminine models with various cybernetic enhancements as befits a Tech Priest

Leave it to Ynead to make a concept that was my second choice go to my first

Haha I try my best

You might be able to proxy in fantasy dwarves as Demiurg. Regular dwarves with pulse rifles could count as regular Fire Warriors. Some of the new Kharadron Overlords might be able to count as various Tau battlesuits, but I'm not sure how big they'll be from the pictures.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
You might be able to proxy in fantasy dwarves as Demiurg. Regular dwarves with pulse rifles could count as regular Fire Warriors. Some of the new Kharadron Overlords might be able to count as various Tau battlesuits, but I'm not sure how big they'll be from the pictures.

Do they even have stats for Diemerg?

 DizzyStorey wrote:

Do they even have stats for Diemerg?

Nope

If they are not the remnants of squats, all there was a single spaceship for BFG

Well, if what truly entices you is the fluff perspectives, you should go with what you feel needs more votes on this poll. Or, since you're probably going to spend some time writing on it, whatever inspires you most. I wouldn't worry too much about "breaking cannon". It's a big galaxy. Similarly, from what you've said, it looks like rules shouldn't be a problem either.

FWIW, my preference goes to the mercenaries/Rogue Trader crew/etc.. So many possibilities! Otherwise, the Gue'vesa are the easiest to collect and play I think.

Go nuts. (:

I voted for the Xenos mercenaries force as I would love to see somebody have a crack at some of the rarer mercenary species such as the Galg and the Terrelian Dog Soldiers.

I have been thinking about how to make some Galg mercenaries myself, I think the Otherworld miniatures 'lesser boglings' would be a great place to start for frogmen but I havn't decided how I'm going to 'Sci-Fi' them up yet haha!

Out of those, I'd go for a penal squad. It's been done before, but it bears doing again. I'm presuming these are squads, and not armies you're gonna build. I have no idea if you're gonna use them in games, but if not, the xenos mercenaries may be more fun to do.

 DizzyStorey wrote:


I do relish the idea of pissing off everyone around me with my space marines, but iv already had a post shut down with accusations of trolling for lashing back at the outraged masses, so i dont really want to re-visit that on the forum.

And this is why you shouldn't do the female space marines. I don't think you get why "fanboys" get annoyed. People don't get annoyed because they're female space marines, they get annoyed because they're totally off kilter with regards to the fluff. You might as well make Eldar Space Marines, Slaanesh-worshipping Eldar, or Chaos-worshipping Space Marines who are accepted by the Imperium at large because they're somehow NobleBright. It breaks with the fluff, hard.

However, who am I to judge. I'd suggest make male Sisters of Battle first though.

Kroem wrote:
I voted for the Xenos mercenaries force as I would love to see somebody have a crack at some of the rarer mercenary species such as the Galg and the Terrelian Dog Soldiers.

I have been thinking about how to make some Galg mercenaries myself, I think the Otherworld miniatures 'lesser boglings' would be a great place to start for frogmen but I havn't decided how I'm going to 'Sci-Fi' them up yet haha!

Ask and you shall receive!





Ad Mech-style bionic implants are the perfect way to '40k things up'

 ChazSexington wrote:
Out of those, I'd go for a penal squad. It's been done before, but it bears doing again. I'm presuming these are squads, and not armies you're gonna build. I have no idea if you're gonna use them in games, but if not, the xenos mercenaries may be more fun to do.

 DizzyStorey wrote:


I do relish the idea of pissing off everyone around me with my space marines, but iv already had a post shut down with accusations of trolling for lashing back at the outraged masses, so i dont really want to re-visit that on the forum.

And this is why you shouldn't do the female space marines. I don't think you get why "fanboys" get annoyed. People don't get annoyed because they're female space marines, they get annoyed because they're totally off kilter with regards to the fluff. You might as well make Eldar Space Marines, Slaanesh-worshipping Eldar, or Chaos-worshipping Space Marines who are accepted by the Imperium at large because they're somehow NobleBright. It breaks with the fluff, hard.

However, who am I to judge. I'd suggest make male Sisters of Battle first though.

I don't agree with the whole 'make male sisters first' part, but everything else I agree with a lot.

If female space marines exist there's nothing wrong with male sisters.

I still don't see too big an issue with you doing femarines tho

 ChazSexington wrote:
However, who am I to judge. I'd suggest make male Sisters of Battle first though.

Unless you think that redacting the whole Age of Apostasy would be an improvement to 40k lore, I highly suggest that you don't make male SoB. If you do go that route you might as well play Space Marines.

Oops.. Double Posted.

I figured the sisters of battle had priests assisting them anyway, I dont see the problem with having men hanging around and serving. IF somebody made a "Brothers of battle" Group than go for it I say XD Like i said before. Its a big galaxy with billions of planets and trillions of people. I am sure on some world. at some point there has been splinter groups or exceptions to every rule.

And with fem space marines, its not like theres a mountain of fluff discouraging it, it just says that chicks die when they try to do it cause its not meant to work with the XX chromosome, so its not like its the entire basis of the space marines or anything.
And some books and games have even released there own little takes on the subject. So its obviously not unseeable that one day GW might alter the fluff. People get so worked up and angry at the concept though.. Like they really really really like the part in the book that says the Gene-seed is incompatible with girls. Like this specific fluff is why they wake up int he mornings XD
Its not why people get mad, its the raw unquenchable passion they have for it. Thats when it gets ridiculous. Its rage over something silly and ultimately flimsy and unimportant. Plus i will never not do something cause it might upset some people. I really really really am disinterested in what random strangers think about me and if they approve of my clothing/hair/hobbies and most of all which privet parts my space marines have... its just not in my nature to care that much.

( I can however get very adversarial and push peoples buttons, Its a bad habbit I have and I get a kick out of annoying people at times. A flaw I know but its my personality and I am trying to be amicable and friendly for the most part! )

Plus they did a slight update to the fluff around the time the video game with female space marines was released.
I am not sure ware this statement came from but i assumed it was GW that said "Not impossible just super duper ultra so unlikely it will never happen" as sort of a middle ground "You can do what you want" kinda statement.

This one made me chuckle.
But yeah they have released statements about it in the passed. so its not like its a hard thing that cant be tangled with or budged or even questioned. its all possible.

Spoilers for size

Dizzy, where are those quotes from?

I don't think I've ever seen GW say anything about femarines aside from them not existing for "psuedoscience reasons", not have I see an female Space Marine in any 40k video game.

I think a big thing is that you say that the fluff about Space Marines being male only is not important - why is it any less important than anything else? Why is that a redundant piece of fluff? Is Slaanesh's entire existence redundant? Is all the stuff about the God Emperor being Throne-bound all disposable? How about the Decree Passive?
Why is that bit of fluff irrelevant and not worth treating with the same ideal as the rest of 40k fluff?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Dizzy, where are those quotes from?

I don't think I've ever seen GW say anything about femarines aside from them not existing for "psuedoscience reasons", not have I see an female Space Marine in any 40k video game.

I think a big thing is that you say that the fluff about Space Marines being male only is not important - why is it any less important than anything else? Why is that a redundant piece of fluff? Is Slaanesh's entire existence redundant? Is all the stuff about the God Emperor being Throne-bound all disposable? How about the Decree Passive?
Why is that bit of fluff irrelevant and not worth treating with the same ideal as the rest of 40k fluff?

Cause that good sir is major fluff not small time minor fluff that nobody but only the most extreme care about. Its like saying "Kroot have blue eyes instead of black" sure somebody might freak out but that person is probably a lunatic.

For example. D&D says drow are evil. But there was a book about a good drow. They didnt alter things that were super important to making D&Ds world and story what it is.
There are degrees of severity at play here and only the most obbsessive people would care.
My brother plays a "Good" Ork team.. its fun, its cool and it feths with the fluff a bit. But nobody cares cause of the rule of cool. This is cooler so its acceptable.
Female space marines are kick ass and cool idea. So in my books, it gets a pass.
Having an all or nothing attitude is silly, its like saying "If they make weed legal than next murder will be legal! Cause if drugs arent immoral than there is no morality!" Stop, breath. and think about why this is different from that.

Humans are natorious for picking and choosing what they like and dislike from something. They take the things they love and they ignore the stuff thats gak.
And it doesnt get much shittier than the frankly rediculous and near embaressing, pointless fluff that prevents something as cool as fem space marines./
The importants of something in the lore is based on how much it affects something. What does a 1 in a trillion chance of fem space marine effect? 1 or two of the faceless little buggers in power armors smuggling boobs instead of sassages.. thats it. What does slannesh affect? A whole gak tun of lore. Thats why little tweaks like this are unimportant, could be changed tomorrow and literally nobody should care except for the most insane individuals. ( especally when its not there army and effects them 0% Caring what i do with my models is hella creepy and obsessive )

So I say do what you want cause at the end of the day, they are plastic toys. Little pieces of resin and glue. So make your male sisters of battle. Make your fem marines. Make your good orks and have a blast cause none of it really matters.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway! My lashing back at people and bickering aside!

Looks like the Tau idea is way in the lead for likes. My two favourites are in last place though XD
I do really like the idea of a Tau/human contingency... out of all of them which would be the cheapest to build? Like price wise. I did my wish list for my space marines and it was like 200 bucks. ( Which isnt too much once I get out of debt It shouldnt be a issue. )

 DizzyCrash wrote:
I figured the sisters of battle had priests assisting them anyway, I dont see the problem with having men hanging around and serving. IF somebody made a "Brothers of battle" Group than go for it I say XD Like i said before. Its a big galaxy with billions of planets and trillions of people. I am sure on some world. at some point there has been splinter groups or exceptions to every rule.

Nono, I'm talking about actual male Sisters of Battle! Male Adepta Sororitas, as in they're members of the order and everything! They'll be really friendly with Tau and Eldar too, because they don't hate xenos as well, plus being very community-oriented and cooperative!

 DizzyCrash wrote:

And with fem space marines, its not like theres a mountain of fluff discouraging it, it just says that chicks die when they try to do it cause its not meant to work with the XX chromosome, so its not like its the entire basis of the space marines or anything.
And some books and games have even released there own little takes on the subject. So its obviously not unseeable that one day GW might alter the fluff. People get so worked up and angry at the concept though.. Like they really really really like the part in the book that says the Gene-seed is incompatible with girls. Like this specific fluff is why they wake up int he mornings XD
Its not why people get mad, its the raw unquenchable passion they have for it. Thats when it gets ridiculous. Its rage over something silly and ultimately flimsy and unimportant. Plus i will never not do something cause it might upset some people. I really really really am disinterested in what random strangers think about me and if they approve of my clothing/hair/hobbies and most of all which privet parts my space marines have... its just not in my nature to care that much.

( I can however get very adversarial and push peoples buttons, Its a bad habbit I have and I get a kick out of annoying people at times. A flaw I know but its my personality and I am trying to be amicable and friendly for the most part! )

Plus they did a slight update to the fluff around the time the video game with female space marines was released.
I am not sure ware this statement came from but i assumed it was GW that said "Not impossible just super duper ultra so unlikely it will never happen" as sort of a middle ground "You can do what you want" kinda statement.

Re-read your first sentence. There's, in universe, 10, 000 years of fluff going against it. And I'm not telling you to care about what people might think of your plastic soldiers, but if pissing other players off is a motivator, you do care.

Also, I doubt that statement is from GW. GW don't do statements.

 DizzyStorey wrote:


Cause that good sir is major fluff not small time minor fluff that nobody but only the most extreme care about. Its like saying "Kroot have blue eyes instead of black" sure somebody might freak out but that person is probably a lunatic.

For example. D&D says drow are evil. But there was a book about a good drow. They didnt alter things that were super important to making D&Ds world and story what it is.
There are degrees of severity at play here and only the most obbsessive people would care.
My brother plays a "Good" Ork team.. its fun, its cool and it feths with the fluff a bit. But nobody cares cause of the rule of cool. This is cooler so its acceptable.
Female space marines are kick ass and cool idea. So in my books, it gets a pass.
Having an all or nothing attitude is silly, its like saying "If they make weed legal than next murder will be legal! Cause if drugs arent immoral than there is no morality!" Stop, breath. and think about why this is different from that.

Humans are natorious for picking and choosing what they like and dislike from something. They take the things they love and they ignore the stuff thats gak.
And it doesnt get much shittier than the frankly rediculous and near embaressing, pointless fluff that prevents something as cool as fem space marines./
The importants of something in the lore is based on how much it affects something. What does a 1 in a trillion chance of fem space marine effect? 1 or two of the faceless little buggers in power armors smuggling boobs instead of sassages.. thats it. What does slannesh affect? A whole gak tun of lore. Thats why little tweaks like this are unimportant, could be changed tomorrow and literally nobody should care except for the most insane individuals. ( especally when its not there army and effects them 0% Caring what i do with my models is hella creepy and obsessive )

So I say do what you want cause at the end of the day, they are plastic toys. Little pieces of resin and glue. So make your male sisters of battle. Make your fem marines. Make your good orks and have a blast cause none of it really matters.

Changing eye colour isn't a major change. I mean, I got irked when John French suddenly decided to change the lense colour of Alpha Legion from red to green out of nowhere. Changing the sex of Space Marines is a major break when it's such an established part of the lore.

Drow aren't genetically evil. An equivalent with drow would be saying drow now come in pink, green, and orange as well, plus rainbow coloured. Or there's a bunch of CG Devils etc.

I don't think I'm conveying well enough why female Space Marines is frowned upon. Deviation from established fluff cheapens the IP for the players, because they lose their sense of investment. Newcrons annoyed a lot of Necron players, and retconning Abbadon into being this big, scary threat has had laughable results - he's still the Armless Wonder. When Ward wrote that all SMs look up to Guilliman as their "spiritual liege," that was also met with ridicule. Similar with the previous 13th Black Crusade, where Chaos won, but then didn't, cheapened the players' investment. What was the point of it all if the outcome was given? So Cadia fell again, big deal. All of these things were changes to the fluff. However, having new things happen isn't met with ridicule (depending on whether it fits the GrimDark setting). Waking up Guilliman, from a fluff perspective, was fine. He was always in stasis and most decidedly not dead. Thus making female post-humans based on Space Marine gene-seed is fine, but don't call them Space Marines. Not because of any construed sexist motivation, but because it doesn't fit the fluff.

And I don't know where you get this all or nothing thing from. We're just saying it's not fluff-friendly to make the equivalent of Tzeentch-worshipping Daemonettes.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

Anyway! My lashing back at people and bickering aside!

Looks like the Tau idea is way in the lead for likes. My two favourites are in last place though XD
I do really like the idea of a Tau/human contingency... out of all of them which would be the cheapest to build? Like price wise. I did my wish list for my space marines and it was like 200 bucks. ( Which isnt too much once I get out of debt It shouldnt be a issue. )

 DizzyStorey wrote:

Geu'vesa Tau Unit:
Left behind by the imperial guard they were captured by the Tau and learned of the greater good, armed with a new purpose and knowlage there commander rose to the occasion and integrated into Tau society so thoroughly that she now leads Tau soldiers into battle and holds official rank and trust within the fire caste.
I would rely heavily on imperial guard troops but mix it with Tau soldiers and invest in a female commander unit. This is lore friendly as the Tau do not acknowledge race or origins only your dedication to the greater good and your service to the Tau empire.

Out of curiosity, why specifically a female commander unit?

I'm gonna nitpick a little - While humans are accepted in the Tau Empire, what do you think caste means? The Tau definitely discriminate based on origin - you'll find no Fire Caste Tau moving to the Water Caste, never mind Kroot, Vespid, or humans. Humans are accepted into the Fire Caste as human helpers, and I'd presume civilian humans are accepted into the Earth Caste. I presume you've looked up Gue'vesa?

Well, if you want to have female space Marines with no boob armor why don't you simply take SM with female heads and play them with SoB rules?
Even after reading loads of 40K fluff I still don't get the in-universe reasoning behind no female space marines, so I'd support an army of them. If you don't want to piss people that much, put Fabius Bile in the army and say he made some new mutants up, after all he's the one who cloned primarchs before, coming up with female space marines can't be that hard for him then.

DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Dizzy, where are those quotes from?

I don't think I've ever seen GW say anything about femarines aside from them not existing for "psuedoscience reasons", not have I see an female Space Marine in any 40k video game.

I think a big thing is that you say that the fluff about Space Marines being male only is not important - why is it any less important than anything else? Why is that a redundant piece of fluff? Is Slaanesh's entire existence redundant? Is all the stuff about the God Emperor being Throne-bound all disposable? How about the Decree Passive?
Why is that bit of fluff irrelevant and not worth treating with the same ideal as the rest of 40k fluff?

Cause that good sir is major fluff not small time minor fluff that nobody but only the most extreme care about. Its like saying "Kroot have blue eyes instead of black" sure somebody might freak out but that person is probably a lunatic.

But what defines fluff as major or minor? Fluff is fluff. What categorically makes Slaanesh more valuable than the genetic makeup of Space Marines?

There is nothing in the fluff that says that a piece of fluff is any less important, there's no hard fluff and soft fluff.

For example. D&D says drow are evil. But there was a book about a good drow. They didnt alter things that were super important to making D&Ds world and story what it is.
There are degrees of severity at play here and only the most obbsessive people would care.

Drow are not genetically evil. FeMarines are genetically impossible. This example doesn't work.

What dictates severity? Your opinion, which is subjective? There's no definitive guide, therefore all canon, unless retconned, is valid. In the case of this, where Space Marine have consistently been male-only, this is a non-negiotiable of the setting. That doesn't mean female supersoliders in power armour don't exist, but it means they're not Space Marines.

My brother plays a "Good" Ork team.. its fun, its cool and it feths with the fluff a bit. But nobody cares cause of the rule of cool. This is cooler so its acceptable.

And that's subjective. Coolness is not objective. I might think it's uncool, and therefore not acceptable.

However, more on this - Orks are not even EVIL. Orks, by default are Chaotic, and are hardwired genetically to be predisposed to Waaagh!ing. That doesn't make them evil - it makes them no more evil than a bacteria or virus.
It's completely plausible to have these "Good" Orks - could we have some more information on this?

Female space marines are kick ass and cool idea. So in my books, it gets a pass.

Subjective.

Having an all or nothing attitude is silly, its like saying "If they make weed legal than next murder will be legal! Cause if drugs arent immoral than there is no morality!" Stop, breath. and think about why this is different from that.

Except we're talking about the same thing here - fluff. Not two completely unrelated crimes.

There's nothing to indicate that some fluff is more valid than other fluff at face value. Absolutely nothing. In fact, with Space Marines being consistently male for such a long time, that element of their fluff is more valid than the entire existence of Scions (as Scions, not Storm Troopers), Newcrons, and, to the best of my knowledge, the entire Tau Empire.
If you want to handwave FeMarines for being weak fluff, just remember that they've been like that for longer than many factions have even existed.

Humans are natorious for picking and choosing what they like and dislike from something. They take the things they love and they ignore the stuff thats gak.
And it doesnt get much shittier than the frankly rediculous and near embaressing, pointless fluff that prevents something as cool as fem space marines./

Again, subjective. Just because you think it's cool doesn't mean it's right. Just because you dislike it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And human nature is not an excuse to break established rules of a setting. If we go by that logic, I can eradicate whole laws:
"It's human nature to pick and choose what I want to do - I want to go an murder someone, and you can't stop me, because human nature!"

The importants of something in the lore is based on how much it affects something. What does a 1 in a trillion chance of fem space marine effect? 1 or two of the faceless little buggers in power armors smuggling boobs instead of sassages.. thats it. What does slannesh affect? A whole gak tun of lore.

Adding FeMarines would require the retconning of every book featuring Space Marines, because otherwise, women wouldn't be represented where they're meant to be. As I have discussed with you, I support female representation, but in the areas they are said to be present. That's not in the Space Marines. So no, FeMarines is not a small issue. It's a fluff issue, and they're all equal.

Thats why little tweaks like this are unimportant, could be changed tomorrow and literally nobody should care except for the most insane individuals. ( especally when its not there army and effects them 0% Caring what i do with my models is hella creepy and obsessive )

So because I care about the established lore of a game, I'm creepy and obsessive?

So if I played a game of D&D with you, you wouldn't chastise me because my Drow is rainbow coloured, innately vulnerable to magic, terrible eyesight, tougher but slower than a Dwarf, incapable of stealth, with a thick bushy ginger beard, a pacifist merchant, loved by everyone, and lawful good.

I mean, if you complained about that, that's creepy and obsessive, right?

So I say do what you want cause at the end of the day, they are plastic toys. Little pieces of resin and glue. So make your male sisters of battle. Make your fem marines. Make your good orks and have a blast cause none of it really matters.

To you.
Unfortunately, other people may have to play against your models, and then it DOES matter to them. They are allowed an opinion, and may refuse to play. You can't force them to play and accept your view, just like I can't with you. I'm just trying to explain that the setting and established rules of it oppose your idea.

-------------------------------------------

Sgt. Cortez wrote:Well, if you want to have female space Marines with no boob armor why don't you simply take SM with female heads and play them with SoB rules?

I did suggest the idea in another thread, and got this response.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

Eh, Mostly cause buying the signature haircutes are hard, they wont have all the emblems and I dont want to be restricted to the black and red paint job, i like the freedom that comes with space marine paint jobs and custom chapters. And if i dont paint the armor black and red, whats really left to signify them as sisters of battle.
Most importantly though... aggravating people is not really a barrier for me. There are plenty of viable work arounds that make for genuinely intrigue and fun story telling potential, the rogue apothecary or thunder warrior genetics are all decent fluff ( Plus I am enamoured with the amazonian themes )

And at the end of the day Its what i am most comfortable and happy with.

When I outlined that not all Sisters are black and red armoured, can have their own custom fluff (like any other faction), and asked if this made any difference, I got this response:

DizzyStorey wrote:No it has not swayed me cause I do not need to explain to you why I am disinterested in the sisters of battle and have absolutely no interest in doing what you tell me to just to appease a thousand crying man-children.

The level of opposition for the idea of female Space Marines is unreal. Whilst I'm personally not the biggest fan of the idea (though I completely understand why people want to do it) it is really not such a big deal. GW themselves have mutilated the fluff way worse in last couple of months, not to mention all atrocities committed by the Black Library. Here at least there is a good reason for it, meaning the gender equality.

Besides, as long as it is represented as a some sort of strange exception, it doesn't even really violate the fluff, at least not badly.

Or how about female Custodes? It certainly hasn't been stated anywhere that the Custodes can't be female?


As for Tau, they certainly were depicted more as 'good guys' in their earlier incarnations, and got some more darker tones over the time. If one likes the older depiction of more benign Tau, they're perfectly free to stick to it. Besides, there could even be some variation within the Tau culture itself, some Ethereals might honestly believe in cooperation with the non-tau species, where other Ethereals might be more ruthless and exploitative.

Though I believe the castes are for Tau only. This doesn't necessarily mean that the alien allies are seen as lesser, Tau just have caste-like subspecies whereas the other species don't. I'd imagine Tau would see alien species as extra 'castes' in addition of their own castes.

The Tau society is very structured and orderly, Tau believe everyone and everything has it's own place in the society. That way it may feel somewhat oppressive regardless of how benign it may be overall. Tau do not much appreciate individuality, and thus if you do not conform to their societal norms, they probably don't have much patience for you. Tau are collectivist, and thus the good of the society as a whole always outweighs the good of an individual.

(I once started to build a small band of Tau mercenaries that had decided that feth the system and do their own thing instead. Never finished them though.)

Wow, people are really losing their minds over femarines. It's pretty well known the GW policy on what is and isn't canon is "everything is canon, but nothing is true" so that players can come up with their own stories and armies. All fluff is told by an unreliable narrator so femarines are a possibility. There's an entire planet covered in wolves that used to be humans. That's more believable than breeding women into super soldiers? Hell, even today, it's plausible to be able to clone a woman from a man, so you could say some brilliant/mad apothecary was able to unlock how to turn women into marines.

As for the "just play SoB rules", SoB don't have the same stats and army options as SM. They're not S4 T4 and can't take the same units. I can't believe somebody is saying "I want to play SM with a few tweaks with SM rules" and people are saying "No! Play SoB! Play Tau!" You know that's a good way to push people away from the hobby?

 Crimson wrote:
The level of opposition for the idea of female Space Marines is unreal. Whilst I'm personally not the biggest fan of the idea (though I completely understand why people want to do it) it is really not such a big deal. GW themselves have mutilated the fluff way worse in last couple of months, not to mention all atrocities committed by the Black Library. Here at least there is a good reason for it, meaning the gender equality.

I'll say exactly the same thing I said to Dizzy:

Just because I oppose FeMarines does not mean I oppose female and generally gender equality in 40k - as long as if fits the fluff. Our cultures and beliefs of now should not dictate the beliefs of 40k.
However, I don't believe the fluff needs any kind of change to achieve gender equality. What I believe DOES need changing is representation.

Let's divide 40k into respective factions and races. For the sake of this, therefore, Grey Knights, Space Marines, Blood Angels, Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, etc etc, all count as one race, because they are essentially all Adeptus Astartes. Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequins are all one race for the sake of this.

Out of every faction in the game, there are two that are monogender. Two.
One is all male - Space Marines.
One is all female - Sisters of Battle.
Every other faction is either agender (ie Daemons, Orks), or polygender (ie Guardsmen, Eldar, Tau).
This is according to fluff.

The representation though? Females are HORRIFICALLY unrepresented in 40k - certainly not in the factions they should be. I completely support the increased emphasis on female warriors of the races that do field them, and more exposure of the SoB (plastics, better sculpts, new codex), and less emphasis on Space Marines (so rolling codexes together, less posterboyism). That would achieve equality, as we'd seem more females where they are meant to be, and the fluff remains unchanged. There would be just as many "all male" armies as "all female" and they'd both be given similar exposure.

The fluff isn't an issue. It's representation.

Besides, as long as it is represented as a some sort of strange exception, it doesn't even really violate the fluff, at least not badly.

Well, except where it says that Astartes genes don't work in women.

The only exception to this is heretical means, such as Fabius, and that would have to be handwaved as "the Warp did it", which, in my opinion, is bad writing.

Or how about female Custodes? It certainly hasn't been stated anywhere that the Custodes can't be female?

This is very true. I know the Custodes are genetically modified, but their enhancements may be different to Astartes ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flanker wrote:
Wow, people are really losing their minds over femarines. It's pretty well known the GW policy on what is and isn't canon is "everything is canon, but nothing is true" so that players can come up with their own stories and armies.

That belief was not official, and came from one GW writer as an unofficial statement which has not been endorsed. The fluff is malleable, but there are aspects which are fixed, the existence of Space Marines, for example.

All fluff is told by an unreliable narrator so femarines are a possibility. There's an entire planet covered in wolves that used to be humans. That's more believable than breeding women into super soldiers?

That's the fluff. If the fluff says female genes are incompatible, they are. We've seen nothing to doubt that, and it's been consistently stated.

If you want to use the unreliable narrator argument, then the entire universe was destroyed by the Squats, and the entire background is the tale of one man's fever dream as he is crushed under the iron boots of Squat hordes.
There, now the entire universe is irrelevant because there are no Space Marines at all.

Better?

Hell, even today, it's plausible to be able to clone a woman from a man, so you could say some brilliant/mad apothecary was able to unlock how to turn women into marines.

The God-Emperor, one of the most advanced scientists of humanity, couldn't make the genes interplay. There's no way any loyal Imperial would be able to. The only possible person we know who could do it is the most skilled Apothecary in the galaxy, Fabius Bile, a Chaos Space Marine. If these female warriors were made by him, they'd be Chaos Space Marines, not Imperial-approved Adeptus Astartes.

As for the "just play SoB rules", SoB don't have the same stats and army options as SM. They're not S4 T4 and can't take the same units. I can't believe somebody is saying "I want to play SM with a few tweaks with SM rules" and people are saying "No! Play SoB! Play Tau!" You know that's a good way to push people away from the hobby?

OP hasn't made any suggestions based on gameplay. There's no indication of units, nor of strength. They seem to be interested in fluff - and the fluffiest way to get females in power armour is, drumroll please, Sisters of Battle. Even being amazonian, Catachans are arguably that kind of build, physically impressive and strong, live in jungles etc etc - yet are only S3 T3.

OP is after amazonian women in power armour. The most logical fit for that is Sisters of Battle, from a minor order based on a jungle death world, raising them like Catachans.

 Crimson wrote:
The level of opposition for the idea of female Space Marines is unreal. Whilst I'm personally not the biggest fan of the idea (though I completely understand why people want to do it) it is really not such a big deal. GW themselves have mutilated the fluff way worse in last couple of months, not to mention all atrocities committed by the Black Library. Here at least there is a good reason for it, meaning the gender equality.

This.

Honestly, I genuinely believe that the opposition to femmarines is above and beyond its actual importance in the fluff. Now, don't get me wrong, I get why there's an explanation for it in the fluff (for dubious reasons), but it's honestly defended with the sort of ire that is downright suspicious.

I get that it's stated in the fluff. I also get that GW gives us licence to break the fluff for 'your dudes' if you want. Some people do it more than others. Honestly, who gives a damn whether someone out there wants marines with different private parts?

It is needlessly controversial, and the ire with which it's enforced belies a particularly unsavoury sexist undercurrent.

Its disingenuous Ynneadwraith to say it is defended with a suspicious amount of ire. By simply saying that you putting a label on everyone who cares/defends a point about the setting, a label that is suggestive if not explicitly said.

The same thing can be said about the flipside as a result, but no one does that because they can see why it is a slippery slope. If you want a fair discussion of the point my advice to you is not to bring it up.

If they allow Femarines then all my dudes are Primarchs that get along with everyone and every race and have pet Canifexes and have unlocked the secret to Necron technology and can friendship kick the Chaos gods into whatever non-existence Horus is living in.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
If they allow Femarines then all my dudes are Primarchs that get along with everyone and every race and have pet Canifexes and have unlocked the secret to Necron technology and can friendship kick the Chaos gods into whatever non-existence Horus is living in.

You can do whatever you want. That's part of the draw to Warhammer. The original reason for 2 missing primarchs was for people to come up with their own chapters. You see threads all the time like "Theory: What if a missing primarch was a blank/landed on a xenos planet/started their own empire?" If a player wants his SM to only walk on their hands in tie-dye armor and worship the Rising Sun Emperor and his Teletubbies Primarchs, they can model and play their army that way. It's their money and their time invested in the models, they can do whatever they want.

I mean if you really wanted to make it you wouldn't come onto a forum of bunch of people you are never gonna meet and ask their opinion. You'd ask the people you play with.

Or just make it and let the results speak for themselves, either way this lore discussion is getting dumb in regards to femarines. Lore-wise they've never happened.