NBA and the Flat Earth theory

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**Herzlos**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
There's something slightly ... sinister about the idea of debating something you don't believe in - or actively disagree with - as an abstract exercise. I can't help feeling that it's behind the distrust of politicians and the "ruling classes", and breeds the sort of doublethink required to agree with any old nonsense as long as it'll get you elected. The ability to flat-out lie to your audience and get away with it may be useful in your point 4, but it's dangerous when it comes to those seeking election, as we're finding out to our cost now.

Debating a point you don't believe or agree with is the de facto way to learn to debate. It forces you to think differently and focus on the other side and presentation. Using such an obvious nonsense seems like a good starting point; you'd need to be pretty good at debating to hold your own as a flat earth advocate, and it's got more scope than arguing that the sky isn't blue.

**jmurph**

Alternately, being unable to even contemplate being able to advocate a position contrary to your own seems to indicate a highly inflexible mind. Ideas and positions change, after all, and one doesn't necessarily have to agree with a different viewpoint to understand its merits or appeal.

**Ahtman**

Herzlos wrote:
Debating a point you don't believe or agree with is the de facto way to learn to debate.

That isn't a completely abstract exercise though, which was the point. Many of the people espousing Flat Earth aren't doing so in a relative sense to increase intellectual skill but honestly believe the planet is flat and that there is a conspiracy to get the world to think it is round(ish).

**JohnHwangDD**

Steelmage99 wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
I think Shaq is just screwing with people to be honest. He has a PhD in Education and says things like going up and down in a "360 degree angle"? 360 degrees isn't angle it is a circle. There does seem to be some foolishness in a few members of the NBA about this at the moment but I'm pretty sure that Shaq, big educated goof that he is, is messing with everyone.

Just to clarify, Shaq does not have a Ph.D.. He has an Ed.D. in Human Resource Development.

So, that's like a GED at Community College, right?

**scarletsquig**

The moon is a hologram/ projection, something which is evidenced by the fact that we never see the so-called "dark side".

The lack of gravity pulling us towards the centre of the disc can be explained by the makeup of the Earth's disc, the overall mass is weighted towards the edges.

It's an exercise in forming intelligent counter-arguments, flat earth thinking is an exercise in "but what if...?".

**Herzlos**

Or maybe the earth is spinning round a central axis and centripedal (?) Force is countering the skew of gravity.

Ahtman wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
Debating a point you don't believe or agree with is the de facto way to learn to debate.

That isn't a completely abstract exercise though, which was the point. Many of the people espousing Flat Earth aren't doing so in a relative sense to increase intellectual skill but honestly believe the planet is flat and that there is a conspiracy to get the world to think it is round(ish).

It is a completely abstract exercise for those using it for debates, who created the societies. What any other idiot decides to do with it after the fact is not under the control of those who coined the term.

There seems to be quite a wave of anti-intellectualism at the moment, and good old conspiracy theory lovers. This is just a convient thing to grab onto to show how much better they are than everyone.

**Ahtman**

So your contention is that Flat Earth started as an abstract subject for Debate Teams but that laymen took it up as a truth centered around a conspiracy theory?

**Orlanth**

Ahtman wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
Debating a point you don't believe or agree with is the de facto way to learn to debate.

That isn't a completely abstract exercise though, which was the point. Many of the people espousing Flat Earth aren't doing so in a relative sense to increase intellectual skill but honestly believe the planet is flat and that there is a conspiracy to get the world to think it is round(ish).

However Ahtman those are internet Flat Earthers, conspiracy theory nuts, using easily led and with low IQ etc, not intellectual Flat Earthers, debaters and those posing Flat Earthism for debating purposes, as an artform, or as an intellectual counterculture to their peers in the intelligentsia.
The former shouldn't really exist in a technological society with modern media, the latter there is room for, but avoids the media in its milieu.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

scarletsquig wrote:
The moon is a hologram/ projection, something which is evidenced by the fact that we never see the so-called "dark side".

The lack of gravity pulling us towards the centre of the disc can be explained by the makeup of the Earth's disc, the overall mass is weighted towards the edges.

It's an exercise in forming intelligent counter-arguments, flat earth thinking is an exercise in "but what if...?".

It does require a good grasp of science and a decent imagination to back it up. A good Flat Earther should be able to keep this up on the fly.

**Sarouan**

They're actually serious.

http://www.tfes.org/

Just read their site, their forums and what they are saying IRL. It's more based on conspiracy theories than what Orlanth is trying to make you believe.

**Dreadwinter**

Orlanth is arguing about a different group, I believe.

360 degree angle, lolwut?

He is right about Columbus though.

**Nostromodamus**

The situation is that a topic which used to be used as debate fodder by a group of intellectuals is now being espoused as truth by a different group of morons.

Shaq's arguements are... entertaining

**Rootbeard**

I'd assume the FIRST thing schools would teach you would be things like speech, reading, etc..

I mean, that claim right there is an example of manipulation. He's inserting the idea that schools immediately start off with by knowingly teaching falsehoods (and implying they keep on doing it), for evil racist reasons at that, offering no time for fact-checking or even using your own personal memory. He's also implying that "discovered" can ONLY mean "literally the first person ever to witness", no room for the typical caveat of being the first (non-Viking) European to find out about it. Not to mention this is also tapping into the myth that Columbus disproved the then-common belief that the Earth was Flat.
He's effectively trying to discredit the entire school system without making an actual claim about the school system.

"Up and down at a 360-degree angle"

Wat

**Mozzyfuzzy**

With the Columbus thing he's just pointing out the usual, it's only when a European turned up that places were 'discovered' just living there doesn't count.

The first thing I'm going to put down to Shaq stupid, which is like Barkley stupid, but comes with championship rings

**DarkTraveler777**

Time to throw out my Gold Bond lotion and Shaq-Fu cartridge. I am disappoint, Kazaam.

**jreilly89**

From their website:

"This is the home of the world-famous Flat Earth Society, a place for free thinkers and the intellectual exchange of ideas. This website hosts information and serves as an archive for Flat Earth Theory. It also offers an opportunity to discuss this with the Flat Earth community on our forums."

Is this not in line with what Orlanth was arguing? I really have a hard time believing this is serious

**Nostromodamus**

I'd kind of like to see flat-earthers and hollow-earthers debate, that would be popcorntastic

**Dreadwinter**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Time to throw out my Gold Bond lotion and Shaq-Fu cartridge. I am disappoint, Kazaam.

I will take that Shaq-fu cartridge!

**Sarouan**

jreilly89 wrote:
From their website:

"This is the home of the world-famous Flat Earth Society, a place for free thinkers and the intellectual exchange of ideas. This website hosts information and serves as an archive for Flat Earth Theory. It also offers an opportunity to discuss this with the Flat Earth community on our forums."

Is this not in line with what Orlanth was arguing? I really have a hard time believing this is serious

No. It's really serious. This society is here since quite some time, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

And in this world of "alternative facts", where information becomes something you can twist however you want, it's not that hard to think this can be true. Contrary to what Orlanth said, it's not for "low IQ people only". Very serious people are actually part of this group. And I don't think it's just for "debate practice" only.

**Frazzled**

None of those are really good answers for Doc's question: "But...why?".

1) This seems about as intelligent as the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Farside Comics, but sure, why not.
2) Is it? I can think of at least 10 different subjects I would argue are more worthy of debate than this.
3) That sounds as much fun as watching paint dry.
4) Debatable. It's about as skill building as arguing that gravity isn't real and we're all being weighed down by negative emotions.

If this is really a society, it's something I'd never want to be a part of. It's about as intellectually stimulating as Scientology.

Wo wo wo. Did you just diss Farside?

**jreilly89**

Frazzled wrote:

None of those are really good answers for Doc's question: "But...why?".

1) This seems about as intelligent as the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Farside Comics, but sure, why not.
2) Is it? I can think of at least 10 different subjects I would argue are more worthy of debate than this.
3) That sounds as much fun as watching paint dry.
4) Debatable. It's about as skill building as arguing that gravity isn't real and we're all being weighed down by negative emotions.

If this is really a society, it's something I'd never want to be a part of. It's about as intellectually stimulating as Scientology.

Wo wo wo. Did you just diss Farside?

In regards to an elite intelligent society, I sure did. Don't get me wrong, Farside and Calvin & Hobbes are my jam, but I don't think they deserve the same intellectual praise as On the Origon of Species.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarouan wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
From their website:

"This is the home of the world-famous Flat Earth Society, a place for free thinkers and the intellectual exchange of ideas. This website hosts information and serves as an archive for Flat Earth Theory. It also offers an opportunity to discuss this with the Flat Earth community on our forums."

Is this not in line with what Orlanth was arguing? I really have a hard time believing this is serious

No. It's really serious. This society is here since quite some time, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

And in this world of "alternative facts", where information becomes something you can twist however you want, it's not that hard to think this can be true. Contrary to what Orlanth said, it's not for "low IQ people only". Very serious people are actually part of this group. And I don't think it's just for "debate practice" only.

Yeah I said. Holy gak that's nutters.

**sebster**

Herzlos wrote:
Debating a point you don't believe or agree with is the de facto way to learn to debate. It forces you to think differently and focus on the other side and presentation. Using such an obvious nonsense seems like a good starting point; you'd need to be pretty good at debating to hold your own as a flat earth advocate, and it's got more scope than arguing that the sky isn't blue.

I think there's a significant difference between debating for a position that has merit and is held by reasonable, informed people, and one that has no merit at all. The former will teach a person to understand both sides of an actual issue with two actual sides. The latter is just mind game, an exercise in creating hypothetical questions and giving them hypothetical answers. The latter is functionally no different to Sudoku.

**Peregrine**

Herzlos wrote:
Using such an obvious nonsense seems like a good starting point; you'd need to be pretty good at debating to hold your own as a flat earth advocate, and it's got more scope than arguing that the sky isn't blue.

The problem with this idea is that you can't hold your own as a flat earth advocate talking to an informed audience. The arguments in favor of flat earth theory are all clearly false, and the only way to convince someone of it is if they are too ignorant to know any better. So all you're really training is the ability to lie convincingly to a gullible audience, and I don't think this is a "virtue" we want to be encouraging. That's creating talented con men, not people who are good at debating.

**Roadkill Zombie**

The flat earthers did give a reason as to why but you probably aren't going to like it.

It has to do with Satan and God.

The basic idea is that God says the earth is flat somewhere in the bible. Satan uses science to convince the general population that the earth is a spheroid, thus calling God a liar. Flat earthers believe it is a giant cover up because the powers that be (the Rothschilds, illuminati, Rockerfellers, Cern, etc) are in league with Satan and have been tasked with helping him to destroy the souls of mankind. They do this by spreading lies about what the earth is really like, by faking things like the moon landings, by controlling the educational institutions around the world so that they stop believing in God and start believing in fake science, etc.

And that is a very basic reason as to why they believe what they do.

**jreilly89**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
The flat earthers did give a reason as to why but you probably aren't going to like it.

It has to do with Satan and God.

The basic idea is that God says the earth is flat somewhere in the bible. Satan uses science to convince the general population that the earth is a spheroid, thus calling God a liar. Flat earthers believe it is a giant cover up because the powers that be (the Rothschilds, illuminati, Rockerfellers, Cern, etc) are in league with Satan and have been tasked with helping him to destroy the souls of mankind. They do this by spreading lies about what the earth is really like, by faking things like the moon landings, by controlling the educational institutions around the world so that they stop believing in God and start believing in fake science, etc.

And that is a very basic reason as to why they believe what they do.

Semi-serious question: Is this the same Jewish Illuminati that runs the media and banks? Or a separate Illuminati? There's too many "secret society" conspiracy theories to keep track of them all

**Roadkill Zombie**

jreilly89 wrote:
Roadkill Zombie wrote:
The flat earthers did give a reason as to why but you probably aren't going to like it.

It has to do with Satan and God.

The basic idea is that God says the earth is flat somewhere in the bible. Satan uses science to convince the general population that the earth is a spheroid, thus calling God a liar. Flat earthers believe it is a giant cover up because the powers that be (the Rothschilds, illuminati, Rockerfellers, Cern, etc) are in league with Satan and have been tasked with helping him to destroy the souls of mankind. They do this by spreading lies about what the earth is really like, by faking things like the moon landings, by controlling the educational institutions around the world so that they stop believing in God and start believing in fake science, etc.

And that is a very basic reason as to why they believe what they do.

Semi-serious question: Is this the same Jewish Illuminati that runs the media and banks? Or a separate Illuminati? There's too many "secret society" conspiracy theories to keep track of them all

I have no idea. My guess would be the Jewish Illuminati as that is the one with the names of Rothschild and Rockerfeller attached to them isn't it?

**jreilly89**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
Roadkill Zombie wrote:
The flat earthers did give a reason as to why but you probably aren't going to like it.

It has to do with Satan and God.

The basic idea is that God says the earth is flat somewhere in the bible. Satan uses science to convince the general population that the earth is a spheroid, thus calling God a liar. Flat earthers believe it is a giant cover up because the powers that be (the Rothschilds, illuminati, Rockerfellers, Cern, etc) are in league with Satan and have been tasked with helping him to destroy the souls of mankind. They do this by spreading lies about what the earth is really like, by faking things like the moon landings, by controlling the educational institutions around the world so that they stop believing in God and start believing in fake science, etc.

And that is a very basic reason as to why they believe what they do.

Semi-serious question: Is this the same Jewish Illuminati that runs the media and banks? Or a separate Illuminati? There's too many "secret society" conspiracy theories to keep track of them all

I have no idea. My guess would be the Jewish Illuminati as that is the one with the names of Rothschild and Rockerfeller attached to them isn't it?

Rockerfeller was German, but yeah, I believe the Jewish Illuminati would be the Rothschild.

**kronk**

I thought the Rothschilds were wine importer/exporters.

I loves me some beaujolais.

**Dreadwinter**

All of them are clearly controlled by the Lizard People.

Conspiracy theories have so many layers! Like an ogre..... I mean onion!

**Ahtman**

Unsuprisingly, Shaq said he was joking when he talked about Flat Earth.

WARNING: Mild bits of sarcasm

Thanks to the rise of “alternative facts” and fake news, it can sometimes be difficult to determine whether or not someone is actually stupid, if they’re feigning stupidity for political gain, or if they’re just joking around. That third option is usually the most complicated, since making a joke usually involves not explaining that you’re making a joke, and it’s especially complicated when—for example—you’re more famous for your basketball prowess than for your dry sense of humor. That brings us Shaquille O’Neal, who declared earlier this week on his podcast that he believes the Earth is flat. He said he drives and flies from coast to coast and everything looks flat, so therefore the world must actually be flat.

This probably would’ve gone unnoticed if not for a recent controversy where three other basketball players also mentioned that they think the Earth is flat, which suggested that NBA players all like to hang out, eat PB&J sandwiches, and talk about how scientists are all wrong about some pretty basic stuff. Thankfully, though, we can all breathe a rational sigh of relief, because O’Neal has revealed on a separate podcast (via Uproxx) that he was just joking when he said the Earth is flat.

**Orlanth**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
The flat earthers did give a reason as to why but you probably aren't going to like it.

It has to do with Satan and God.

The basic idea is that God says the earth is flat somewhere in the bible. Satan uses science to convince the general population that the earth is a spheroid, thus calling God a liar. Flat earthers believe it is a giant cover up because the powers that be (the Rothschilds, illuminati, Rockerfellers, Cern, etc) are in league with Satan and have been tasked with helping him to destroy the souls of mankind. They do this by spreading lies about what the earth is really like, by faking things like the moon landings, by controlling the educational institutions around the world so that they stop believing in God and start believing in fake science, etc.

And that is a very basic reason as to why they believe what they do.

Sorry not so. Judaism hints that the world is round with God encompassing the girdle of the Earth, it never anywhere says the world is flat.
Islam is even clearer on this subject with the earth being a sphere actually mentioned in the Koran, though I don't know the verses pertaining to this.

In any case pre-Christian scence not only showed the world was round but also gave reasonable estimates as to size. This was however mostly forgotten during the dark ages. Medieval Catholicism resisted renaissance thought for its own purpose, though again the East Orthodox did not, as they inherited some science as an unbroken tradition through Constantinople.

The actual cause of medieval flat earthism is simple crude observation, the Earth appears flat to a casual observer. Modern flat earthism is an allusion to a simpler time, which can be appealing, or an excuse for some conspiracy thinking, or a spoof on either.