How are the 5 army books for 8th likely to be divided

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Nithaniel**

GW have also said there will be a new faction. Its anyones guess what book they might be in, they might even get their own book. After all Eldar are xenos, it is conceivable that they go into the Xenos book

**Purifier**

Nithaniel wrote:
GW have also said there will be a new faction. Its anyones guess what book they might be in, they might even get their own book. After all Eldar are xenos, it is conceivable that they go into the Xenos book

Dark Mechanicum maybe? That would flesh out the Chaos book, and newest rumours do say that they want to solidify Chaos as the biggest threat and the imperium vs chaos as the main protagonist/antagonistic fight. Not to mention that Ad Mech is apparently one of the three focuses for this year, which would play nicely against a Dark Mechanicum foe.

**mrhappyface**

Purifier wrote:
Nithaniel wrote:
GW have also said there will be a new faction. Its anyones guess what book they might be in, they might even get their own book. After all Eldar are xenos, it is conceivable that they go into the Xenos book

Dark Mechanicum maybe? That would flesh out the Chaos book, and newest rumours do say that they want to solidify Chaos as the biggest threat and the imperium vs chaos as the main protagonist/antagonistic fight. Not to mention that Ad Mech is apparently one of the three focuses for this year, which would play nicely against a Dark Mechanicum foe.

I was just about to post this exact comment.

With all the Dark Mechanicus stuff released in 30k and focus on Chaos + ad mech in the next edition makes me think (hope) we'll get some dark mechanicus stuff.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Book 1: Abaddon-Devestator Squad
Book 2: Eldar-Kill Team
Book 3: Legion of the Damned-Predator
Book 4: Reapers-Terminators
Book 5: Tyranid Warrior-Zadkiel

**Odrankt**

Everyone Faction in 40k is Evil to be honest, It's more aesthetics than it is Lore.

Spoiler:

to be fair, I'd argue Tyranids are not evil at all, possibly the only non-evil faction in the game. it'd be like calling bees evil for gathering pollen

I would say Tyranids are not evil due to them only eating everything as means to survive. Their Genestealer Cult though is a different story. They literaly enter planets for the Tyranids, infect lifeforms with their Genes, get the infected lifeforms to get into powerful positions while spawning new GS to get into power as well. And once they are in power they declare their planet is "safe" only for the Tyranids to come eat up everything (even the gene stealers) and then the GS go to another planet and do the whole cycle again. So from a lore and aesthetics PoV the Genestealer Cult is definatly the most evil faction in the 40K universe IMO

.

**Purifier**

Odrankt wrote:
to be fair, I'd argue Tyranids are not evil at all, possibly the only non-evil faction in the game. it'd be like calling bees evil for gathering pollen

I would say Tyranids are not evil due to them only eating everything as means to survive.

"no no, they're not evil. Sure, they want to devour all life, but like... only so they can survive and keep on eating all life!"

Yeah, no. They're evil. Completely devoid of any feelings of remorse, and devours you with zero interest in attempting any kind of symbiosis based on any kind of empathy. It's like saying I'm not evil for killing you since I wanted all your stuff, as long as I'm autistic and can't feel for you.

**Odrankt**

I'm autistic and can't feel for you.

Purifier please reframe yourself from using brain and social disorders for getting your point across. You do not know who has Autism in this fourm/thread and you could upset people who have this disorder (like me for example) by your comment. I for one do not mind the comment as I try live a "normal" life but it is unfair to use a disorder as a way to "explain" why a race of aliens eat every lifeform without hesitation.

Cheers.

**Zognob Gorgoff**

Purifier wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
to be fair, I'd argue Tyranids are not evil at all, possibly the only non-evil faction in the game. it'd be like calling bees evil for gathering pollen

I would say Tyranids are not evil due to them only eating everything as means to survive.

"no no, they're not evil. Sure, they want to devour all life, but like... only so they can survive and keep on eating all life!"

Yeah, no. They're evil. Completely devoid of any feelings of remorse, and devours you with zero interest in attempting any kind of symbiosis based on any kind of empathy. It's like saying I'm not evil for killing you since I wanted all your stuff, as long as I'm autistic and can't feel for you.

Evil: profoundly immoral or wicked.
Interesting in your example they are an individual void of the understanding of others(autism was probably not a great choice my partner has mild autism and so does her sister and brother they arent the great devourer)are we saying all tyranids are an indivual and that indivual is evil? Otherwise aren't we suggesting all predatory creatures are evil. If there were 3 billion lions on earth it would us or them they aren't going sign a peace treaty they eat other animals. So by this rastional are lions evil?

**Purifier**

Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
Purifier wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
to be fair, I'd argue Tyranids are not evil at all, possibly the only non-evil faction in the game. it'd be like calling bees evil for gathering pollen

I would say Tyranids are not evil due to them only eating everything as means to survive.

"no no, they're not evil. Sure, they want to devour all life, but like... only so they can survive and keep on eating all life!"

Yeah, no. They're evil. Completely devoid of any feelings of remorse, and devours you with zero interest in attempting any kind of symbiosis based on any kind of empathy. It's like saying I'm not evil for killing you since I wanted all your stuff, as long as I'm autistic and can't feel for you.

Evil: profoundly immoral or wicked.
Interesting in your example they are an individual void of the understanding of others, are we saying all tyranids are an indivual and that indivual is evil? Otherwise aren't we suggesting all predatory creatures are evil. If there were 3 billion lions on earth it would us or them they aren't going sign a peace treaty they eat other animals. So by this rastional are lions evil?

Yes. Humans are evil when we exterminate another species for our own gain. So would any other race be. There can be balance. You're looking at their stupidity or lack of self reflection to save them from being evil. If nothing is evil because any kind of promotion of the own race (like killing and eating anything else regardless of outcome) is forgiven, then does real evil actually exist?

**Zognob Gorgoff**

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing but evil is a difficult subject at the best of time. Personally no it does not exist imo as I t's just a term that will be culturally interpreted differently as it involves morals.
Things like this are interesting. I feel material or emotional gain that causes the needless suffering of other life when it was unnecessary for the involved indivuals to take part is a haulmark of evil. And there fore tyranids as the concept as I understand it skirt the boundary but don't inherently cross it. We don't have the knowledge of the hive mind and how it concieniously works to know if it is a swarm of ants or a hand applying a tool.

**John Prins**

Evil has too many connotations to be a useful discussion point. As others have mentioned, all factions can be viewed as evil from the right point of view. Probably a better separator of the factions would be wanton cruelty. Many factions are cruel, but only a few are maliciously so (Chaos, Dark Eldar and Orks), while others are cruel by necessity (Imperium, Tyranids, Tau) or cruel by indifference (Necrons, Eldar).

**EnTyme**

I'm loving how many people are considering Eldar (Craftworlders, I presume) and Tau to be "good". One is a dying race willing to manipulate and destroy entire civilizations in order to survive, the other is an Orwellian dystopia. The expression "for the greater good" is generally used to justify doing something horrible.

**Odrankt**

Genestealers and defiantly the most cruel in how they sneak their way to the top and then let everyone die to the tyranids including themselfs...

All in the name of false prophecies.

I guess the 40k universe is full of armies that are cruel in different ways.

Heres hoping 8th edition changes things

.

**mrhappyface**

Odrankt wrote:
Genestealers and defiantly the most cruel in how they sneak their way to the top and then let everyone die to the tyranids including themselfs...

All in the name of false prophecies.

I guess the 40k universe is full of armies that are cruel in different ways.

Heres hoping 8th edition changes things .

But that's the point of 40k: there are no heroes., there are those who have lost all hope in the galaxy surviving so carry out whatever selfish act that they can and there are those who are so infatuated with saving the galaxy that they will do anything (this often leads to them being indistinguishable from the former party).

We are no heroes, we are just defending what we believe in; whatever the price.

**Deadshot**

I think the OP is the most accurate as it accurately collections the three biggest factions (Chaos, Imperium, Eldar) into 4 books covering

Chaos
- CSM
-> BLack Legion
-> Thousand Sons
-> Death Guard
-> Traitor Legions
-> Crimson Slaughter
- Chaos Daemons
- Khorne Daemonkin
- Renegade Knights

Imperium of Man

- Imperial Guard (Including Stormtroopers, which will no longer need or warrant a seperate faction)
- Sisters of Battle
- Adeptus Mechanicus
- Skitarii
- Officio Assassinorum
- Inquisition
- Imperial Knights
- Adeptus Custodes
- Sisters of Silence

Space Marines

- Space Marines Codex
-> Angels of Death
-> White Scars
-> Imperial Fists
-> Clan Raakuun
-> Raven Guard (? Most of the books have been pulled so hard to tell)
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Space Wolves
-> Champions of Fenris
- Grey Knights
- Deathwatch

Aeldari

- Craftworld Eldar
-> Craftworld Iyanden
- Dark Eldar
-> Haemonculi Covens
- Harlequins
- Ynnari

Xenos

- Orks
- Necrons
- Tau Empire
-> Farsight Enclaves
- Tyranids
-> Genestealer Cults

As well as relevant rules from each and every Warzone book. Each book will be enormous.

**BlaxicanX**

Codex: Adeptus Auxillaries (Guard, Inquisition, Skitarri, Sisters etc)
Codex: Adeptus Astartes (myriad Space Marine chapters)
Codex: Forces of Chaos (...chaos)
Codex: Ynarri (Deldar, Harlequins etc)
Codex: Non-Threats (Orks, Tyranids etc)

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

Purifier wrote:
Zognob Gorgoff wrote:

Spoiler:

Purifier wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
to be fair, I'd argue Tyranids are not evil at all, possibly the only non-evil faction in the game. it'd be like calling bees evil for gathering pollen

I would say Tyranids are not evil due to them only eating everything as means to survive.

"no no, they're not evil. Sure, they want to devour all life, but like... only so they can survive and keep on eating all life!"

Yeah, no. They're evil. Completely devoid of any feelings of remorse, and devours you with zero interest in attempting any kind of symbiosis based on any kind of empathy. It's like saying I'm not evil for killing you since I wanted all your stuff, as long as I'm autistic and can't feel for you.

Evil: profoundly immoral or wicked.
Interesting in your example they are an individual void of the understanding of others, are we saying all tyranids are an indivual and that indivual is evil? Otherwise aren't we suggesting all predatory creatures are evil. If there were 3 billion lions on earth it would us or them they aren't going sign a peace treaty they eat other animals. So by this rastional are lions evil?

Yes. Humans are evil when we exterminate another species for our own gain. So would any other race be. There can be balance. You're looking at their stupidity or lack of self reflection to save them from being evil. If nothing is evil because any kind of promotion of the own race (like killing and eating anything else regardless of outcome) is forgiven, then does real evil actually exist?

We're actually NOT looking at "stupidity/lack of self-reflection" as justifiable means to not call animals who lack reason evil. If you sincerely think lions, let alone any omnivore, carnivore, predator, etc (shoot, throw in herbivore, since plants have lives too) are evil, then there's really no convincing you hear besides a suggestion to study on how reason, instincts, moral relativism, etc works. I could go on, but it's getting off-topic enough.

edit:
also, by your logic, dandelions are evil. And they're a GOOD weed. Heck, almost all plants fight over nutrients - water, sun, etc, so are all living things basically evil?

**mrhappyface**

An alternate opinion:

Spoiler:

**Hendarion**

Didn't GW already have that xenos-book in the 'rumour engine' picture and it showed the logos of Tau, Eldar and more?
I'd say:
1) rules
2) fluff / scenarios
3) imperium
4) chaos
5) xenos

**Galef**

Hendarion wrote:
Didn't GW already have that xenos-book in the 'rumour engine' picture and it showed the logos of Tau, Eldar and more?
I'd say:
1) rules
2) fluff / scenarios
3) imperium
4) chaos
5) xenos

GW has already confirmed that there will be a Rules book AND 5 additional faction books (so at least 6 books that do not include a separate fluff book).
But that is a good point about the Rumour Mill tease with the Eldar and Tau logos.

I could see an Aeldari + Tau book with the other "destruction" Xenos in another book, but there is no way ALL the xenos will be in the same book.
The only reason Space marines can all fit into 1 book is because they share so many units. All you need to add is "Chapter tactics" for them to be different, plus a few 1-off units like Thunder wolves and Sanguinary guard.
Same goes for Chaos.

-

**Hollow**

I'm going for Imperium, Chaos, Xenos, Rules, Fluff.

**BlaxicanX**

For feths sake,WE ALREADY KNOW that there is a separate, SIXTH book for the rules.

WE ALREADY KNOW that the 5 army books specifically cover the playable factions' rules.

**EnTyme**

Galef wrote:
I could see an Aeldari + Tau book with the other "destruction" Xenos in another book, but there is no way ALL the xenos will be in the same book.
The only reason Space marines can all fit into 1 book is because they share so many units. All you need to add is "Chapter tactics" for them to be different, plus a few 1-off units like Thunder wolves and Sanguinary guard.
Same goes for Chaos.

-

And what makes Eldar so special? They're still Xenos. Didn't one of the rumormongers already mention that Imperium and Chaos will work just like Grand Alliances, but Xenos won't? So why is there "no way" you share a book with the rest of us? Look at how the GA books were released for AoS. Eldar will eventually get their own book, and yeah, they may start with their own book, but you'll still be in the Xenos book, too. Just like Space Marines will still be in the Imperium book even though they will almost certainly have their own book. How do I know? Because Stormcast Eternals were still in Grand Alliance: Order and Khorne Bloodbound were still in Grand Alliance: Chaos. Sorry for getting a little worked up here, but you're coming off as a little arrogant to think your precious space elves are to unique and pretty to be lowered to the same rank as the rest of us Xenos filth.

**Galef**

EnTyme wrote:
Galef wrote:
I could see an Aeldari + Tau book with the other "destruction" Xenos in another book, but there is no way ALL the xenos will be in the same book.
The only reason Space marines can all fit into 1 book is because they share so many units. All you need to add is "Chapter tactics" for them to be different, plus a few 1-off units like Thunder wolves and Sanguinary guard.
Same goes for Chaos.

-

And what makes Eldar so special? They're still Xenos. Didn't one of the rumormongers already mention that Imperium and Chaos will work just like Grand Alliances, but Xenos won't? So why is there "no way" you share a book with the rest of us? Look at how the GA books were released for AoS. Eldar will eventually get their own book, and yeah, they may start with their own book, but you'll still be in the Xenos book, too. Just like Space Marines will still be in the Imperium book even though they will almost certainly have their own book. How do I know? Because Stormcast Eternals were still in Grand Alliance: Order and Khorne Bloodbound were still in Grand Alliance: Chaos. Sorry for getting a little worked up here, but you're coming off as a little arrogant to think your precious space elves are to unique and pretty to be lowered to the same rank as the rest of us Xenos filth.

It has nothing to do with fluff and everything to do with page count. Presumably, all 5 of these Faction books will be "close" to the same size. A Marine book is likely to be the biggest, but if you crammed all the Xenos together, that book would be the biggest. GW wants its golden boys to have the most attention, so it doesn't make sense for a Xenos book to be bigger.
And we know that Imperium, Chaos & Xenos isn't going to be it because that is only 3 books, not the 5 that are confirmed.

It makes the most sense to split them as:

1) Marines - including the contents of 5+ of the current 7th ed books
2) The rest of the Imperium - again the contents some 5+ 7th ed books + supplements
3) Chaos - will include the contents of 3 main codices and several supplements
4) Aeldari - will include the contents of 3 full 7th ed codices and 3 supplements (Iyanden, Covens, Gathering Storm) POSSIBLY Tau
5) Xenos - Necrons, Ork, and the metric crap ton of all the Nid material (plus Stealer cults) could more than fill 1 book alone, plus Tau if they aren't rolled into the Eldar book.

My prediction has less to do with what factions work together (although that is a big factor for 1-4 above) and way more to do with getting all the factions spread out EVENLY in a way that makes sense.
Eldar currently have almost as many books/supplements as Space Marines, hence they are very likely to get their own book to fit all the units into.
But given the rumour mill image, I am now leaning toward Aeldari + Tau being a book. That would split the Xenos a bit more evenly into Xenos: Order & Xenos: Destruction

-

**EnTyme**

Golden boys - 280 pages
Heretics - 300 pages
Soccer hooligans - 104 pages
Dead things - 88 pages

Page count is irrelevant. Basic keywords are how the books will be split up. What are those basic keywords? Imperium, Chaos, Xenos. How do I know? They already split up that way online.

And just to reiterate: One of the five books will be Space Marines, but Space Marines will also be in the Imperium book. Why? Because they will have the Imperium keyword. The fifth book will be another faction, possibly Eldar, but they will also be in the Xenos book. They have the keyword. My guess, though, is that the other book will be for Death Guard since they are the other faction featured in the alleged starter set and they have their own section on the website. P.S. They will also be in the Chaos book.

**Afrodactyl**

I think it will boil down to;
1. Adeptus Astartes (all chapters exc. Grey Knights and deathwatch)
2. Imperial Agents (IG, SoB, Inq, AdMech, etc)
3. Chaos (SMs, Daemons, and potentially DarkMech/Renegade IG)
4. 'Light' xenos (Eldar flavours, Tau)
5. 'Dark' xenos (Orks, Nids, Crons, anything I've forgotten)

**Purifier**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

also, by your logic, dandelions are evil. And they're a GOOD weed. Heck, almost all plants fight over nutrients - water, sun, etc, so are all living things basically evil?

And by your logic, nothing is. I feel like anything that wipes out another race completely can be considered an evil. Whether that is conquistadors annihilating the Aztecs, or world wide dandelion infestation killing all other plant life.

**tneva82**

Purifier wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
to be fair, I'd argue Tyranids are not evil at all, possibly the only non-evil faction in the game. it'd be like calling bees evil for gathering pollen

I would say Tyranids are not evil due to them only eating everything as means to survive.

"no no, they're not evil. Sure, they want to devour all life, but like... only so they can survive and keep on eating all life!"

Yeah, no. They're evil. Completely devoid of any feelings of remorse, and devours you with zero interest in attempting any kind of symbiosis based on any kind of empathy. It's like saying I'm not evil for killing you since I wanted all your stuff, as long as I'm autistic and can't feel for you.

Are bees evil? Snakes?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlaxicanX wrote:
For feths sake,WE ALREADY KNOW that there is a separate, SIXTH book for the rules.

WE ALREADY KNOW that the 5 army books specifically cover the playable factions' rules.

Do we? GW stated: "Day 1 New Rules! Five books on Day One – rules for everyone with Points, too! Digital and Physical. Everything you need to start playing will be out day one for all armies. "

Sounds like 5 books on day 1 rather than 6.

edit: Okay somebody said GW has said 6. Where? Don't find mention of it in https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/724730.page

**Purifier**

tneva82 wrote:

Are bees evil? Snakes?

Are they hell bent on and in a position where they can eradicate entire species?

**Lobokai**

So glad they're consolidating factions! I think I first asked for this in 1994-5