Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So no more rolling? They just show up?

How does the 3rd turn rule make sense?

Does that mean there is a way to fail your reserves? Or is the rule just LITERALLY "if you forget to put your model on the table by turn three, it dies"

I guess the 3rd turn limitation is here to avoid reserves coming at the end of the game and taking all the objectives ?

Not all units will have the option to just come out of reserve whenever. So it s a gamble with the units that have to check to be deployed

My mates going to hate this he just started alpha legion because he likes sneaky shenanigans.

I really like this. This is one of the first big changes that might help melee armies.

Although it is also further evidence that Daemons no longer have Deep Strike, as their method of tactical reserve will be Summoning. But charging afterwards is great, even if you have to use those Command points to re-roll long changes.

-

 Purifier wrote:
You've got a higher than 50% chance to miss the trygon charge, as you need to roll an 8 to make up the 9 inches distance. If you want to give the group that comes with you a really good chance to charge instead, you place them 3 inches towards your target and they're then in the way of the trygon. It's really good, but it's not an automatic two units in combat.

I think charging out of pods is almost a given at this point.

That'll definitely give Honour Guard a niche!

This doesn't look so great for genestealer cults unless they retain some extremely funky deployment rules...

It is interesting. The 9" rule combined with the removal of templates means that filling your entire deployment zone with Conscripts will probably be the go-to form of anti-strike protection for Guard players.

Though even for less numerous armies, on a standard 4x6 table deploying along the long side, you've only got to cover 8 9in. increments to make your deployment zone immune to (most) deep-striking. You can cut down the number of units you need to cover it by spreading them horizontally, of course. If someone banks too hard on that of course, it could theoretically be possible to punish them by dropping something that doesn't follow the 9in. rule if such a unit exists.

I am curious what implications this will have for grav-chute insertion. Rapid-fire range on a hot-shot lasgun happens to be 9in., so perhaps a valkyrie and vendetta could drop a Stormtrooper squad and a PCS on top of an unsuspecting infantry unit to blast them with FRFSRF hot-shots, while going on to hit other units with their own weapons in the same turn. Could make for some real (and literal) Ride of the Valkyries moments.

A strict interpretation of "more than 9in." would put them out of rapid fire range of course, but that's basically a question of "are you going to insist that 9.000001in. is not *exactly* 9in., therefore out of range, or are you just going to round it off and call it good?".

Of course, the 9in. rule and the flamer's 8in. range means the quad-flamer kamikaze PCS is dead, as is SWT demo-pack bombing. Neither one a particularly big loss, outside of their amusement factor. Unless grav-chute insertion lets you get closer than 9in, of course.

Meltacide is still a thing of course. At 9in you won't get to re-roll your damage, but S8 AP-4 D1d6 is nothing to scoff at regardless.

 DoomMouse wrote:
This doesn't look so great for genestealer cults unless they retain some extremely funky deployment rules...

I also don't think it looks good for Summoning. Daemons likely do not have a normal Deep Strike rule and can only come in from Reserves via Summoning. As we know this will be a 2d6 psychic test, it is possible that a unit doesn't come in by turn 3 and is this destroyed. Hopefully Summoning has a low casting for most Daemon units, as we are now paying the points to use them, let us use them.

-

 Galef wrote:
I really like this. This is one of the first big changes that might help melee armies.

Although it is also further evidence that Daemons no longer have Deep Strike, as their method of tactical reserve will be Summoning. But charging afterwards is great, even if you have to use those Command points to re-roll long changes.

-

Assuming the 9 inch no go area is largely standard, I wonder if summoning can bypass that. That would make summoning a nice alternative to attempting to deepstriking safely.
You'd risk being denied, but in turn you get closer and with flamers seemingly being 8 inch would be a big advantage for those units.

Was an interesting piece from AoS of late that might have implications for 40k

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/04/tactical-toolbox-zoning-and-area-denial/

Finally - and end to the deepstrike/outflank spam!

You really consider outflank a problem?

Martel732 wrote:
You really consider outflank a problem?

After one of my opponents walked a bunch of Veteran squads into my deployment zone I finally threw the towel in. Massed outflank against an army with literally zero mobility is just far too powerful.

IG have a lot of mobility. You just choose not to use it. You won't win in 8th, either. I'm calling it now. BA have more legitimate problems than IG in 7th, and even *I* am not throwing in the towel over OUTFLANK.

I wouldn't get too hasty writing off Outflank. Outflank didn't scatter in the first place and was quite a different mechanic from Deep Striking, so Outflank might not follow the 9" rule at all.

Though you can't outflank an entire army at least. That, it seems, would be too much even for a tactical genius. :p

 Galef wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
This doesn't look so great for genestealer cults unless they retain some extremely funky deployment rules...

I also don't think it looks good for Summoning. Daemons likely do not have a normal Deep Strike rule and can only come in from Reserves via Summoning. As we know this will be a 2d6 psychic test, it is possible that a unit doesn't come in by turn 3 and is this destroyed. Hopefully Summoning has a low casting for most Daemon units, as we are now paying the points to use them, let us use them.

-

How can you lose units in the 3rd turn if you are summoning? When you summon you just put points aside, don't units. I think that Summoning will be a total different thing that reservers, so you could still summon thins even in the 6th turn.

for the trygon's backup unit who knows if hormigaunts will retain some version of bounding leap?

Hormagaunts should just move 12". Like zerglings are fast in SCII.

Martel732 wrote:
IG have a lot of mobility. You just choose not to use it. You won't win in 8th, either. I'm calling it now. BA have more legitimate problems than IG in 7th, and even *I* am not throwing in the towel over OUTFLANK.

What mobility? You mean the tanks that move 6"? Or the Infantry that walk 6"? Or the Cavalry that canter 12" and then die? Or the Storm Troopers whom deepstrike in, do nothing, and then die? Or the Taurox that costs a fair bit, drives up the field and then dies to small arms fire? Or the Chimera that was nerfed heavily and given a massive points hike for reasons?
Or did you mean allies?

Yeah that was because fo the Stormcast Eternals and denying opponents kill points, only to drop in at the last moment to score unanswered kill points.

 master of ordinance wrote:

What mobility? You mean the tanks that move 6"? Or the Infantry that walk 6"? Or the Cavalry that canter 12" and then die? Or the Storm Troopers whom deepstrike in, do nothing, and then die? Or the Taurox that costs a fair bit, drives up the field and then dies to small arms fire? Or the Chimera that was nerfed heavily and given a massive points hike for reasons?
Or did you mean allies?

Chimeras count as mobility in my book. And let's not forget Valkyries/Vendettas, strong, mobile units in their own right that can also be transports. In 8th, assuming grav-chute insertion is still a thing, they'll be able to do no-scatter fly-by drops without breaking a stride!

Foot Guard aren't entirely lead-footed either though. Move! Move! Move! can really make them book it on the run, and Forward for the Emperor! gives you move-shoot-move. They're no Eldar, to be sure, but the Guard can still beat feet if they really want to. On a 4x6 table they're mobile enough.

 ross-128 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

What mobility? You mean the tanks that move 6"? Or the Infantry that walk 6"? Or the Cavalry that canter 12" and then die? Or the Storm Troopers whom deepstrike in, do nothing, and then die? Or the Taurox that costs a fair bit, drives up the field and then dies to small arms fire? Or the Chimera that was nerfed heavily and given a massive points hike for reasons?
Or did you mean allies?

Chimeras count as mobility in my book. And let's not forget Valkyries/Vendettas, strong, mobile units in their own right that can also be transports. In 8th, assuming grav-chute insertion is still a thing, they'll be able to do no-scatter fly-by drops without breaking a stride!

Foot Guard aren't entirely lead-footed either though. Move! Move! Move! can really make them book it on the run, and Forward for the Emperor! gives you move-shoot-move. They're no Eldar, to be sure, but the Guard can still beat feet if they really want to. On a 4x6 table they're mobile enough.

You don't get to shoot with Move! Move! Move! If you're using Forwards, for the Emperor!, you're not using it to move forward, because you shoot first then run.

Guard can move, just slowly. Mechvets can move, marginally faster, but still slowly. And Chimerae cost twice as much as Rhinos, because they decided to nerf it and increase the cost to force us to take the Taurox.

Outflank isn't a problem, I think, though. You can't be within 1" of me, and I've covered my entire section of the board in a protective field of guardsmen spaced at 2" apart to ensure that there is nowhere you can deepstrike or outflank to that isn't on the other side of my barricade.

I like enemy no-presence turn 1 lists, though. It means fewer things I need to kill to win the game in 1 turn.

 ross-128 wrote:
It is interesting. The 9" rule combined with the removal of templates means that filling your entire deployment zone with Conscripts will probably be the go-to form of anti-strike protection for Guard players.

Though even for less numerous armies, on a standard 4x6 table deploying along the long side, you've only got to cover 8 9in. increments to make your deployment zone immune to (most) deep-striking. You can cut down the number of units you need to cover it by spreading them horizontally, of course. If someone banks too hard on that of course, it could theoretically be possible to punish them by dropping something that doesn't follow the 9in. rule if such a unit exists.

I am curious what implications this will have for grav-chute insertion. Rapid-fire range on a hot-shot lasgun happens to be 9in., so perhaps a valkyrie and vendetta could drop a Stormtrooper squad and a PCS on top of an unsuspecting infantry unit to blast them with FRFSRF hot-shots, while going on to hit other units with their own weapons in the same turn. Could make for some real (and literal) Ride of the Valkyries moments.

A strict interpretation of "more than 9in." would put them out of rapid fire range of course, but that's basically a question of "are you going to insist that 9.000001in. is not *exactly* 9in., therefore out of range, or are you just going to round it off and call it good?".

Of course, the 9in. rule and the flamer's 8in. range means the quad-flamer kamikaze PCS is dead, as is SWT demo-pack bombing. Neither one a particularly big loss, outside of their amusement factor. Unless grav-chute insertion lets you get closer than 9in, of course.

Meltacide is still a thing of course. At 9in you won't get to re-roll your damage, but S8 AP-4 D1d6 is nothing to scoff at regardless.

The strict interpretation of "more than 9 inches" appears to be the official interpretation.

From the Facebook team:

Q: Hey Warhammer 40,000, these new rules look great, but can you clarify if an 8 roll with the dice is enough to assault ? thanks
A: Hmm, we don't think so.
If you are more than 9" away, then moving 8" puts you by definition more than 1" away.

Meltacide is less potent, but still definitely a thing. Multimelta-cide, on the other hand, may still be alive and well!

Plasmacide could also retain a lot of potency, since being more than 9" will still probably let most Plasma guns/rifles Rapidfire...

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
IG have a lot of mobility. You just choose not to use it. You won't win in 8th, either. I'm calling it now. BA have more legitimate problems than IG in 7th, and even *I* am not throwing in the towel over OUTFLANK.

What mobility? You mean the tanks that move 6"? Or the Infantry that walk 6"? Or the Cavalry that canter 12" and then die? Or the Storm Troopers whom deepstrike in, do nothing, and then die? Or the Taurox that costs a fair bit, drives up the field and then dies to small arms fire? Or the Chimera that was nerfed heavily and given a massive points hike for reasons?
Or did you mean allies?

You understand nothing about your own list. This won't change in 8th. Look forward to more losing.

So..."half the army on the table" is going to basically force the game back into 6th-ed gunlinehammer with no-man's land and minimum army variation, with Lictorshame, Ambush GSC, Drop Pod armies, even random stuff like Black Legion Speartip armies going the way of the dodo.

...yup, hard pass.

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
IG have a lot of mobility. You just choose not to use it. You won't win in 8th, either. I'm calling it now. BA have more legitimate problems than IG in 7th, and even *I* am not throwing in the towel over OUTFLANK.

What mobility? You mean the tanks that move 6"? Or the Infantry that walk 6"? Or the Cavalry that canter 12" and then die? Or the Storm Troopers whom deepstrike in, do nothing, and then die? Or the Taurox that costs a fair bit, drives up the field and then dies to small arms fire? Or the Chimera that was nerfed heavily and given a massive points hike for reasons?
Or did you mean allies?

You understand nothing about your own list. This won't change in 8th. Look forward to more losing.

I think, my friend, you do not understand the Guard at all. Seeing as you continue to claim the Wyverns are the be all and end all to all problems, and that the Russ should be left aside in favour of them. That and the continued claims that blobs of infantry solve all problems.

I would expect Scouts to get the Gutter Runner rules:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
IG have a lot of mobility. You just choose not to use it. You won't win in 8th, either. I'm calling it now. BA have more legitimate problems than IG in 7th, and even *I* am not throwing in the towel over OUTFLANK.

What mobility? You mean the tanks that move 6"? Or the Infantry that walk 6"? Or the Cavalry that canter 12" and then die? Or the Storm Troopers whom deepstrike in, do nothing, and then die? Or the Taurox that costs a fair bit, drives up the field and then dies to small arms fire? Or the Chimera that was nerfed heavily and given a massive points hike for reasons?
Or did you mean allies?

You understand nothing about your own list. This won't change in 8th. Look forward to more losing.

I think, my friend, you do not understand the Guard at all. Seeing as you continue to claim the Wyverns are the be all and end all to all problems, and that the Russ should be left aside in favour of them. That and the continued claims that blobs of infantry solve all problems.

Blobs of infantry, Wyverns, Manticores, and Basilisks tend to solve most of my problems. Also, ABG Command Tanks and the Aegis Defense Barricade.



Though this doesn't really change my plans. I deploy almost all my models on the board at the start of the game anyway. The only things that go in reserve are sometimes Dominions, if I didn't get first go and I think they're not going to make it to their target otherwise.

Well I'm just repeating what i see in successful guards lists. You are empirically incorrect because i've seen ig lists perform quite well. I've army swapped with ig twice in 7th and had no problem beating drop pod ba.