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The paragraph in the movement article covered running though, not moving flat out, which was was quite a bit more complex. I suppose it's quite likely though that they simply streamlined it to be the same, but in that case the starweaver would have received a quasi nerf to movement, fast skimmers in general since they could move 12+18 which is more than the weaver could reach now. Of course they are faster when moving normally now so there is that.

Only being able to move an extra d6 for a rhino would be a bit of a bummer. Then again, 24 seems awfully fast too. Maybe vehicles could advance half their movement extra? So 6 for rhino and 8 for the weaver?

Flat out was the equivalent of Running so I don;t see why they would be different - higher base move now, lower Advance.

 Galef wrote:
We also do not know what Jink will do, or even if it still exists.
There is a rumor out there that it adds +2 armour at the cost of you hitting on -1, but that would be bananas good.
Starweavers would be flying Terminators

-

40k Facebook has said there is no Jink - if a unit has something similar to that it will have it on the data sheet.

So dark eldar vehicles are essentially jinking all the time, but at no penalty to their shooting.

Look slike they have that anyway from the new Flicker Field - 5++ against shooting.

My guess is that jink is dead it was a horrible mechanic really.

Q Is "jink" still a thing in #NewHammer?

A Warhammer 40,000

Remember, there are no universal special rules in the new edition. If a unit can do anything that resembled the jink move of old, it will be specifically written on it's datasheet.

"Jink" is gone because USRs are gone. But Keyword rules are totally a thing. Look at Rubric who got "relentless" and Nids who are still "fearless"

I suspect the ability for fast things to get a better save at the cost of worse shooting will be a thing in 8E.
It could be like 4E were if you turbo boost/flatout (advance) your armour save become invulnerable.
I like the +2 armour rumour, but hope it turns out to just be +1

 Galef wrote:
"Jink" is gone because USRs are gone. But Keyword rules are totally a thing. Look at Rubric who got "relentless" and Nids who are still "fearless"

I suspect the ability for fast things to get a better save at the cost of worse shooting will be a thing in 8E.
It could be like 4E were if you turbo boost/flatout (advance) your armour save become invulnerable.
I like the +2 armour rumour, but hope it turns out to just be +1

I am not sure - no mention of a flat out or boost now being anything other tan Advance.

If Jet bikes keep their 3+ save (for no reason) and are hit as normal they can probably keep their heavy weapons (with -1 to hit if moving) and troops status without being OP again.

Sleep wrote:
Does nobody think of the gaunts!?!

But don't gaunts get the ability to pop out of a Trygons hole?

Now that transports are a viable participant in close combat when their own attacks, I expect them to go up in cost as well. Maybe not Land Raiders, but I think we may have seen the end of 35 point Rhino's and Drop Pods. Or even "free" Transports.

For the Ork players: You did read how if the vehicle is opened topped, all the models get to shoot in close combat, right? So Trukk charges in and starts close combat, and all the Boy's in the back with pistols get to fight as well? Or how about all those Dark Eldar open topped skimmers? Oh yeah!

Overall I'm ok with most of these changes, though I'm not thrilled about going back to "On a bad roll everything dies" of some older editions, that can really end a game's fun factor quick and seems counter to the larger 8E paradigm of avoiding one poor/great roll obliterating something in one go.

I'm glad they brought charges out of transports back...with the proviso that units must disembark at the start of the movement phase to do so. That will enable stuff like Rhino's to be way more functional for things like Tac marines/CSM's/generalist units as a whole, without being stupidly broken.

Shennanigans with transports soaking overwatch fire however feels open to abuse, we'll see how that works out.

 oldzoggy wrote:
My guess is that jink is dead it was a horrible mechanic really.

Indeed, Jink was one of the biggest game design mistakes of 6E and 7E, and really drove a lot of gameplay imbalance.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Now that transports are a viable participant in close combat when their own attacks, I expect them to go up in cost as well. Maybe not Land Raiders, but I think we may have seen the end of 35 point Rhino's and Drop Pods. Or even "free" Transports.

For the Ork players: You did read how if the vehicle is opened topped, all the models get to shoot in close combat, right? So Trukk charges in and starts close combat, and all the Boy's in the back with pistols get to fight as well? Or how about all those Dark Eldar open topped skimmers? Oh yeah!

Orks got S4 AP- hits-on-a-5+ pistols held by units that want to use their 3 Attacks in combat, that rule isn't much good to us. Now our assault transports have turned into shooting platforms and tarpits, while I assume most of our units will need to be in big mobs anyway to mitigate Morale with Mob Rule so probably won't want to be in a Trukk anyway. Still waiting for something positive for Orks apart from no Initiative.

MEHTEL BAWKES!

I kinda wish they had previewed the rhino, just so we could get a better idea as to the average speed of a transport. obviously eldar units are gonna be stupid fast.

I do find it interesting you can't move and disembark though. Not sure how i feel about that.

 Marmatag wrote:
I do find it interesting you can't move and disembark though. Not sure how i feel about that.

Well it does kinda make sense.
Who in their right mind jumps out a moving vehicle?

(( ) OK, maybe the Orks would...

Jbz` wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I do find it interesting you can't move and disembark though. Not sure how i feel about that.

Well it does kinda make sense.
Who in their right mind jumps out a moving vehicle?

(( ) OK, maybe the Orks would...

Those who favor a good fight over personal safety

BrianDavion wrote:
I kinda wish they had previewed the rhino, just so we could get a better idea as to the average speed of a transport. obviously eldar units are gonna be stupid fast.

For some reason they've chosen really bad examples in at least half of their articles. Why not give some of the really interesting things? Trukks, Rhinos and Leman Russ in the different articles are all things that a lot of people care about.

BrianDavion wrote:
I kinda wish they had previewed the rhino, just so we could get a better idea as to the average speed of a transport. obviously eldar units are gonna be stupid fast.

I think they're responding to some complaints in the comments that everything they show is marines, marines, marines by instead using a different faction as a demonstration.

Personally, I'm just glad my murderclowns got some love.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Now that transports are a viable participant in close combat when their own attacks, I expect them to go up in cost as well. Maybe not Land Raiders, but I think we may have seen the end of 35 point Rhino's and Drop Pods. Or even "free" Transports.

For the Ork players: You did read how if the vehicle is opened topped, all the models get to shoot in close combat, right? So Trukk charges in and starts close combat, and all the Boy's in the back with pistols get to fight as well? Or how about all those Dark Eldar open topped skimmers? Oh yeah!

pistols shoot in the shooting phase, so those orks would have ti wait for the next player turn to shoot at whatever the trukk charged.

 davou wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Now that transports are a viable participant in close combat when their own attacks, I expect them to go up in cost as well. Maybe not Land Raiders, but I think we may have seen the end of 35 point Rhino's and Drop Pods. Or even "free" Transports.

For the Ork players: You did read how if the vehicle is opened topped, all the models get to shoot in close combat, right? So Trukk charges in and starts close combat, and all the Boy's in the back with pistols get to fight as well? Or how about all those Dark Eldar open topped skimmers? Oh yeah!

pistols shoot in the shooting phase, so those orks would have ti wait for the next player turn to shoot at whatever the trukk charged.

Some comments seems to hint pistols can be shoot at the melee phase (or while being locked in melee)

 Robin5t wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I kinda wish they had previewed the rhino, just so we could get a better idea as to the average speed of a transport. obviously eldar units are gonna be stupid fast.

I think they're responding to some complaints in the comments that everything they show is marines, marines, marines by instead using a different faction as a demonstration.

Personally, I'm just glad my murderclowns got some love.

Maybe, but the thing about showing Marines is it's a good basis for comparison as we can then draw assumptions from it. "Well the rhino is speed 10, so we can assume eldar vehicles are proably speed 12 or faster" etc.

sadly with the murderclown car, all we can tell is "eldar are damned fast"

Lord Perversor wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Now that transports are a viable participant in close combat when their own attacks, I expect them to go up in cost as well. Maybe not Land Raiders, but I think we may have seen the end of 35 point Rhino's and Drop Pods. Or even "free" Transports.

For the Ork players: You did read how if the vehicle is opened topped, all the models get to shoot in close combat, right? So Trukk charges in and starts close combat, and all the Boy's in the back with pistols get to fight as well? Or how about all those Dark Eldar open topped skimmers? Oh yeah!

pistols shoot in the shooting phase, so those orks would have ti wait for the next player turn to shoot at whatever the trukk charged.

Some comments seems to hint pistols can be shoot at the melee phase (or while being locked in melee)

Im certain I saw that its not the case. Pistols can be fired into a combat if your engaged, but they do so on the shooting phase, and then only during your own turn.

I wonder if this basically makes it necessary for almost all front line troops to include an anti-vehicle close combat weapon.

If a token arc maul/power fist can't pop a cheap transport in a turn tarpitting with transports will obnoxiously strong.

 oldzoggy wrote:
My guess is that jink is dead it was a horrible mechanic really.

Indeed, Jink was one of the biggest game design mistakes of 6E and 7E, and really drove a lot of gameplay imbalance.

I built a devilfish hammerhead heavy tau list right before all this got announced. I am pumped to put it on the table now haha.

steerpike92 wrote:
I wonder if this basically makes it necessary for almost all front line troops to include an anti-vehicle close combat weapon.

If a token arc maul/power fist can't pop a cheap transport in a turn tarpitting with transports will obnoxiously strong.

which likely has something to do with the ability to leave combat on demand now.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Overall I'm ok with most of these changes, though I'm not thrilled about going back to "On a bad roll everything dies" of some older editions, that can really end a game's fun factor quick and seems counter to the larger 8E paradigm of avoiding one poor/great roll obliterating something in one go.

I'm glad they brought charges out of transports back...with the proviso that units must disembark at the start of the movement phase to do so. That will enable stuff like Rhino's to be way more functional for things like Tac marines/CSM's/generalist units as a whole, without being stupidly broken.

Shennanigans with transports soaking overwatch fire however feels open to abuse, we'll see how that works out.

 oldzoggy wrote:
My guess is that jink is dead it was a horrible mechanic really.

Indeed, Jink was one of the biggest game design mistakes of 6E and 7E, and really drove a lot of gameplay imbalance.

Eh maybe for 6th, but 7th Jink really wasn't that bad.

BrianDavion wrote:

steerpike92 wrote:
I wonder if this basically makes it necessary for almost all front line troops to include an anti-vehicle close combat weapon.

If a token arc maul/power fist can't pop a cheap transport in a turn tarpitting with transports will obnoxiously strong.

which likely has something to do with the ability to leave combat on demand now.

That's not a legitimate counter. If you aren't able to destroy the transport after falling back it can just engage you again and waste another turn.

i.e. you have to destroy all enemy transports to have any sort of firepower. Which is sort of an issue as the whole point of a transport is to be durable.

At least the rhino has an appropriate name now

I like this, transport moves up nice and close, enemy moves away in their turn, dudes get out, move up and charge next turn.


Just have to be careful of your transport getting charged.

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
I'm picturing an Ork trukk rolling up and the boys tuck and rolling, while the trukk keeps plowing into the enemy as the boys try to catch up.

While that's a nice image, what is actually likely to happen is that the trukk rolls up, and then while it's sitting there waiting for the next movement phase the target unit moves back out of charge range and shoots up the trukk, killing it and one in 6 of the boyz inside, and leaving the rest of the mob standing in the open with nowhere to go...


It's looking like the primary role for transports in this edition is going to be ramming them into things rather than transporting units.

 insaniak wrote:

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
I'm picturing an Ork trukk rolling up and the boys tuck and rolling, while the trukk keeps plowing into the enemy as the boys try to catch up.

While that's a nice image, what is actually likely to happen is that the trukk rolls up, and then while it's sitting there waiting for the next movement phase the target unit moves back out of charge range and shoots up the trukk, killing it and one in 6 of the boyz inside, and leaving the rest of the mob standing in the open with nowhere to go...


It's looking like the primary role for transports in this edition is going to be ramming them into things rather than transporting units.

Na, Im gonna roll up with my trukks till I'm almost touching the enemy, and then shoot the crap out of them from the open top Next turn if it dies, my orks will be within walking and charging range, and I can call a waaaagh of some sort on top of it