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UrsoerTheSquid wrote: I'm picturing an Ork trukk rolling up and the boys tuck and rolling, while the trukk keeps plowing into the enemy as the boys try to catch up.
While that's a nice image, what is actually likely to happen is that the trukk rolls up, and then while it's sitting there waiting for the next movement phase the target unit moves back out of charge range and shoots up the trukk, killing it and one in 6 of the boyz inside, and leaving the rest of the mob standing in the open with nowhere to go...
If the enemy is moving away from you then that is a -1 to hit penalty on any heavy weapons they may have. Secondly it means they are moving where you want them to go and not where they want to go. I am assuming that there will still be objectives of some sort in 8th edition in which case forcing units to choose between backing off those objectives or receiving an unfavourable charge is no bad thing.
And even if all you care about is whacking stuff in assault, sooner or later the enemy is going to run out of board to retreat to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/21 21:57:47
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
And even if all you care about is whacking stuff in assault, sooner or later the enemy is going to run out of board to retreat to.
Yup... and at that point it becomes in their best interests to attack the transport and assault first before the unit on board gets a chance to.
Seriously, we already sat on this seat in the merry-go-round back in 4th edition. The end result of forcing people to sit in their transport for a turn after it has moved into position is that people stop using transports... because all they're doing is serving your units up to your opponent on a plate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/21 22:01:06
Na, Im gonna roll up with my trukks till I'm almost touching the enemy, and then shoot the crap out of them from the open top
At which point your opponent shoots the geewillikers out of the trukk and assaults the boyz that are left in the resultant wreckage.
Yes, and I'm pretty sure thats what trukks have always been expected to do.... both in the fluff and in the game Excepting now they will actually make it to the goal post, and only 1/6 die instead of 4/9 and I get to choose which. This is gonna be great
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/21 22:01:28
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
I like this, transport moves up nice and close, enemy moves away in their turn, dudes get out, move up and charge next turn.
Just have to be careful of your transport getting charged.
See, this it what I am unsure of, tactically. In order to get close enough for the turn 2 charge, you have to get close enough to be charged
It's going to be way too easy for opponents to either assault your transport, or move safely away.
insaniak wrote: The end result of forcing people to sit in their transport for a turn after it has moved into position is that people stop using transports... because all they're doing is serving your units up to your opponent on a plate.
How is models sitting in a transport waiting to assault any different then them sitting in no mans land waiting to run close enough to charge? This all hinges on how fast the vehicles get your stuff where you want it, and the suggestion seems to be that the vehicles do it faster than anything but nids.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
How is models sitting in a transport waiting to assault any different then them sitting in no mans land waiting to run close enough to charge?
No different. There's a reason people tended to play gunlines instead of assault armies in 4th edition...
So...charge the vehicle into the squad you plan on assaulting? Worse case it dies and you lose 1 or 2 guys and are set up for a perfect charge next turn, best case your opponent has to fall back and you get a freebie charge next turn. (assuming you're smart enough to charge in a way that won't get you 360 bubblewrapped by guardsmen or w/e).
This is another one of those things that we are just gonna have to wait to see how it synergizes with other rules before reliable assessment but I like it at first glance. Jink was terrible and I hope it gets folded into movement. No sense for that lascannon operator to ask the pilot "hey you are you jinkin or wut?"
If your transport dies in overwatch can thw guys inside charge? That would be interesting, 'Oh please, feel free to overwatch with your fire warriors on my 1 wound land raider with 12 zerkers in it.'
I like this, transport moves up nice and close, enemy moves away in their turn, dudes get out, move up and charge next turn.
Just have to be careful of your transport getting charged.
See, this it what I am unsure of, tactically. In order to get close enough for the turn 2 charge, you have to get close enough to be charged
It's going to be way too easy for opponents to either assault your transport, or move safely away.
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Not so clear anymore. With units having different movement speeds there is still some uncertainty in terms of math-hammering it.
And then there are things like the swarmlords ability to move in the shooting and still assault. Not saying other armies would get the same but there could be similar option.
Or even how they handle advancing with vehicles. We still don't know for certain that they will move a mere d6.
I think it's a bit too early to make any big conclusions yet.
Though worst case scenario, a transport rolls up 12 and d6, so potentially leaving 6 inch to move for those magical 24 inch (assuming that's even still the case), which most infantry will be able to cover.
You could still charge up to their board edge from there with 12 inch deployment, 12 inch move putting you in the middle of the board, followed by a lucky 6 and 6 inch move.
That's in a straight line of course but it might not be as easy as simply walking away. And with the vehicles now being able to fight, you might not be too interested in fighting that transport. At least for some factions.
A rhino with destroyer blades might well be at least as good as a spawn or two.
This makes me stoked for my Harlequins! Those transports are super fast, and let me use them to pin down units and soak overwatch. It will likely be the case that the Starweaver does some decent damage or has a decent Rend with those 3 attacks (as the riders have Zephyrglaives). Really liking the new tactical uses of transports and vehicles in general.
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 00:28:49
Drasius wrote: Well, so long breachers, it's been nice having an actual use for a devilfish.
Not all is necessarily lost, in terms of Devilfish usefulness.
Devilfish could be used to charge and tie up enemy assault units AFTER shooting, which could cause very useful delays to the enemy's plans and allow piecemeal deconstruction of the enemy's forces.
Devilfish could retain Flechette Dischargers as an upgrade, which could give them a CQC punch unexpected from the Tau.
Devilfish could have the Fly keyword, which will (for Kanluwen, pretend I said "probably will ) allow them to disengage and still shoot up to 12 shots...
I have to say that the concept of Stunlocking transport spam has me a touch worried, but not overly so until I see the rest of the rules. Nothing cannot be saved by point costs, bespoke rules, and as-yet-unrevealed game mechanics.
It doesn't even have to be transports for spam. Any army with wide access to fast light (and cheap) vehicles is potentially a huge pain the butt. I'm thinking of stuff like Ork Buggies (yeah yeah, we don't know exact cost, we all know it'll be cheap). That kind of stuff won't slow down HtH squads much, but could be pretty effective at tying up portions of a gunline for a key turn. While, say, you get trukks full of boys in position to unass and charge the following turn. Stock Landspeeders and the like could also be aggravating in the same way.
Fighting other assault armies with a list like Orks, or DE, will feel very different because you know they're coming to you anyway, an can position accordingly.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
With the limited info i have now i intend to ram with 3 devilfish, deploy 6 gun drones to screen the breachers and then deploy breachers to light up the enmy at close range.
I am excited.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
insaniak wrote: I don't think they've said, but I would expect they're just removed, for simplicity.
The Knight can throw death monsters and vehicles, so I assume they will remain in the table.
To clarify, I believe a Knight with a particular weapon can cause an effect if they kill an enemy with that weapon.
That wouldn't require dead monsters/vehicles to actually remain as models, just that those types of models be differentiated from other models and killed by the Knight.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lance845 wrote: With the limited info i have now i intend to ram with 3 devilfish, deploy 6 gun drones to screen the breachers and then deploy breachers to light up the enmy at close range.
I am excited.
Sounds like a great plan, but one that you'll only be able to perform over the course of two turns (with an enemy turn occurring between you ramming your devilfish in the the enemy and deploying your gun drones and breachers) due to the Transport rules only allowing disembarking BEFORE the transport moves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 02:18:13
insaniak wrote: I don't think they've said, but I would expect they're just removed, for simplicity.
The Knight can throw death monsters and vehicles, so I assume they will remain in the table.
To clarify, I believe a Knight with a particular weapon can cause an effect if they kill an enemy with that weapon.
That wouldn't require dead monsters/vehicles to actually remain as models, just that those types of models be differentiated from other models and killed by the Knight.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lance845 wrote: With the limited info i have now i intend to ram with 3 devilfish, deploy 6 gun drones to screen the breachers and then deploy breachers to light up the enmy at close range.
I am excited.
Sounds like a great plan, but one that you'll only be able to perform over the course of two turns (with an enemy turn occurring between you ramming your devilfish in the the enemy and deploying your gun drones and breachers) due to the Transport rules only allowing disembarking BEFORE the transport moves.
According to what I read it seemed like the knight could throw things regardless of if they were dead or not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 03:18:01
Not sure what to think about that, as an ork player.
I did some quick and dirty math, might be wrong because I'm sleepy, but I think this is actually better for us. If AV 10 = T5 and we also get a 4+, here are the stats.
S4 used to wounded .1666 times
S4 now wounds .3333 times, with a 4+ it goes to .1666 times
S5 wounded .333 times
S5 now wounds .5 times, 4+ goes to .25 times
S6 wounded .5 times
S6 now wounds .333 times after save.
So the save really makes up for it, and we'll probably end up with more than 3 wounds. Someone double-check my math, though.
One thing to point out that isn't in there is that S3 now wounds the same as S4, which previously couldn't hurt av10. This could be potentially bad.
S6-9 now wound the same as S6, which would make up for the fact that S3 can hurt it now. However I still think it is probably a nerf over all, as most of these high strength weapons are doing multiple damage now for each hit.
Edit: Well I should say they will definitely be more durable than before since it seems like they can no longer explode from a lucky shot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 03:37:30
Edit: Well I should say they will definitely be more durable than before since it seems like they can no longer explode from a lucky shot.
Their contents however can now potentially all die on a lucky shot.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
insaniak wrote: I don't think they've said, but I would expect they're just removed, for simplicity.
The Knight can throw death monsters and vehicles, so I assume they will remain in the table.
To clarify, I believe a Knight with a particular weapon can cause an effect if they kill an enemy with that weapon.
That wouldn't require dead monsters/vehicles to actually remain as models, just that those types of models be differentiated from other models and killed by the Knight.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lance845 wrote: With the limited info i have now i intend to ram with 3 devilfish, deploy 6 gun drones to screen the breachers and then deploy breachers to light up the enmy at close range.
I am excited.
Sounds like a great plan, but one that you'll only be able to perform over the course of two turns (with an enemy turn occurring between you ramming your devilfish in the the enemy and deploying your gun drones and breachers) due to the Transport rules only allowing disembarking BEFORE the transport moves.
According to what I read it seemed like the knight could throw things regardless of if they were dead or not.
From the Knights Faction Focus:
The thunderstrike gauntlet also has the ability to chuck a destroyed Monster or Vehicle at another enemy unit within 9″ to do D3 mortal wounds on a 4+.
I like this, transport moves up nice and close, enemy moves away in their turn, dudes get out, move up and charge next turn.
Just have to be careful of your transport getting charged.
See, this it what I am unsure of, tactically. In order to get close enough for the turn 2 charge, you have to get close enough to be charged It's going to be way too easy for opponents to either assault your transport, or move safely away.
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You can move and then assault the turn you disemark- on a 6'' move unit that's therefore a 13'' threat range with average rolls on the charge 2d6.
Exactly how fast do you think most units move? If I get within 3'' of you, and then on your turn you move away, on my next turn you're only 9'' inches away. I disembark my models, move them 6'' and my charge distance is only 3''.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/22 05:10:54
Maybe Berzerkers and Possessed will actually be good now that they don't have to spend a turn with their asses hanging out after they disembark from a Rhino. Yes, you have to disembark at the beginning of your turn, but by time you move the Rhino up, and have it flat out (I'm assuming that mechanic will still be there, perhaps it'll be rolled in with Advancing?) you'll be pretty close and can charge next turn. Rhino Rush is back, baby!
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
ZergSmasher wrote: Maybe Berzerkers and Possessed will actually be good now that they don't have to spend a turn with their asses hanging out after they disembark from a Rhino. Yes, you have to disembark at the beginning of your turn, but by time you move the Rhino up, and have it flat out (I'm assuming that mechanic will still be there, perhaps it'll be rolled in with Advancing?) you'll be pretty close and can charge next turn. Rhino Rush is back, baby!
Vehicles advance D6 same as everything else, they confirmed it in one of the earliest teaser pages.
I just hope 8th wont turn orks on their heads, with close combat transports, while open-topped changes completely, for little actual gain to the army. Let's just say I hope orks has been playtested and balanced against the stronger builds out there.
Excepting now they will actually make it to the goal post, and only 1/6 die instead of 4/9 
) OK, maybe the Orks would...
) allow them to disengage and still shoot up to 12 shots...
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: 
