Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition

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**Rydria**

i find it really annoying that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and slaanesh are fake keywords sorry you're playing chaos soap because you're playing a mixed mono god army (even though Khorne actually had a codex for that last edition)

Yet Imperium armies like adeptus mechanicus can mix there sub factions, i understand it is fluffy and makes sense as they are the same faction.

But isn't a mixed horde of daemons and mortal followers who worship/serve the same god ?

Also the loss of cult troops is incredibly frustrating since no other available troop option fulfills the same role as noise marines.

Sure I can just take elite detachments but not only do I lose 2cp i also lose objective secured.

**Rydria**

The entire point of that wobbly model syndrome vs the ruin is the represent the assaulter scaling the walls, and the reason they can attack you is because they are stabbing your men threw the windows/holes in he ruin.

The reason you can't place the model is because we have yet to invent affordable flying bases (except that 1 guy with eldar magnet bases)

**Rydria**

Aelyn wrote:
Rydria wrote:
i find it really annoying that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and slaanesh are fake keywords sorry you're playing chaos soap because you're playing a mixed mono god army (even though Khorne actually had a codex for that last edition)

Why would this not be allowed? It's in the Faction Keywords list.

You lose objective secured if you have a mixed army, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh aren't factions so if you put 1 chaos space marine daemon unit in your daemon army all your troops lose obsec.

**Rydria**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
And chaos is a faction anyway right?

Playing your faction as chaos denies you objective secured because it is too generic.

**Rydria**

magodedisco wrote:
Gladders1980 wrote:
I like a unit of 20 pinks, it may not be as cost effective as Brims, but with splitting its effectively a 100 wound unit with 4++ that can only take 1 wound at time damage. It's not going anywhere especially with a changeling next to it.

As soon a s a couple pinks die and split into blues, anymore that die you remove the blues before pinks, then remove the brims before blues/pinks etc. So it take as very long time and a lot of attacks to put some dents into those pinks!

I also usually have 8 command points so use them for the unit to auto pass morale. A recent game I lost 10 models on the first turn of shooting but only 2 of them were pinks. My opponent was very annoyed.

Not played super competitive with it but in a recent local (not stupid lists) tourney in 3 games no one came close to killing the unit, I think the most pinks I lost in one game was 12. Including facing an imperial guard army with conscripts and armour. It's a big tarpit that can protect those vulnerable 4 wound characters we have.

It also leaves you spare summoning points it you don't need to fully split because your opponent is not doing enough damage

I have looked at the same idea a few times. Pink Horrors represent only 1/5 of the actual models in the unit (if you split all the way down). The auto-morale stratagem is the real clincher. Taking a look at survivability-per-point, the squad averages out to still be better than a Plaguebearer (in squads less than 20) on average. That's mostly because Brimstones are still point-for-point the most survivable thing in the game, which tilts the average up quite a bit.

However, I had not considered the possibility of using those saved points for summoning if the Pinks aren't getting targeted- tricky stuff there!

So, while we're on the subject of summoning, what are some great summoning options that will be worth picking up for any Daemons army this edition? Right off the bat, I think we'll all agree the standout is a squad of 20 Bloodletters, with an instrument. For 150 points, this unit has a 2/3 chance of just absolutely mauling whatever is in its path in the ensuing combat step. Averaging in the 1/3 chance of failure as 0 wounds dealt, the unit still does more damage per point than anything I've come across so far (to a T7, 3+ unit, in this example):

A Slaanesh daemon prince is mathematically almost as good as Magnus ? (Is this the intoxicating elixer prince)

**Rydria**

magodedisco wrote:
A Slaanesh daemon prince is mathematically almost as good as Magnus ? (Is this the intoxicating elixer prince)

I should have explained further when posting that- it actually looks like that entry is an Intoxicating Elixir Slaanesh DP also casting Smite (I leave notes that make sense at one point then forget to erase). The whole sheet is on a per-point basis. So, yes, it does appear that that build is on-par with Magnus on a point-per-damage basis against T7/3+. However, that doesn't account for overkilling something that doesn't have enough wounds. Magnus deals a whopping 23.215 wounds, between smite, another offensive spell, and his attacks, which very few units can withstand without some damage being wasted.

My main point was that Bloodletters are insanely lethal for their points now.

That is good to know it is nice to have the second best daemon prince after Magnus surprised the slaanesh prince is superior to belakor

How good are daemonettes I assume they are inferior to genestealers (asking since self imposed restriction prevent me using bloodletters)

**Rydria**

Genestealers seem really bad compared to even Daemonettes let alone Bloodletters, on the cost to damage ratio, are you including a herald in those calculations ?

**Rydria**

I feel Slaanesh stuff apart from Daemonettes, heralds and daemon princes are overpriced, seekers are just so ridiculously over costed at 19pts they should be more like 12-14 like they used to be.

The keeper of secrets is good if he actually reaches combat but he never will with a disgraceful 5++ .

**Rydria**

BlaxicanX wrote:
It stands to reason that the de fact +1 strength buff for heralds was a stand-in and we'll be getting more God-appropriate buffs in the codex.

I don't mind the +1 strength on khorne and slaanesh stuff, but on Tzeentch it is just awful lol.

**Rydria**

ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm still afraid that Bloodthirsters are going to continue to be a bullseye with wings, even with the relic options. I hope they get either more wounds than the index version, or a significant price drop. If that leak from earlier is accurate, they will get neither, which means my big red rage demon is going to continue to guard my shelf.

This is my concern for all greater daemons a 5++ that can be buffed to a 4++ just doesn't cut it with the amount of multi wound shooting out there. They also cost a bomb and don't seem worth it.

**Rydria**

mmimzie wrote:
Rydria wrote:
ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm still afraid that Bloodthirsters are going to continue to be a bullseye with wings, even with the relic options. I hope they get either more wounds than the index version, or a significant price drop. If that leak from earlier is accurate, they will get neither, which means my big red rage demon is going to continue to guard my shelf.
This is my concern for all greater daemons a 5++ that can be buffed to a 4++ just doesn't cut it with the amount of multi wound shooting out there. They also cost a bomb and don't seem worth it.

actualy with a small price from the lord of change is pretty good when you do a point for point analyse of the durability of the model.

Currently the great unclean one durability wise is pretty great getting 5++/5+++ which is about a 4+ save on a pretty cheap frame. It jsut lacks in things to do when up close, but with a few more spells it starts to look pretty good. Aoe mortal wound on that fat body could get scary.

Lord of change with a 4++ is also pretty decent, a gain though out put wise it really doesn't do enough currently. Some stronger spells can make this a thing, and a small price drop will make very competive quite quickly.

The blood thirster is the only not so great one, its now got some more punch. It becomes fairly durable with the armor of scorn and oblivious to pain, but the other two greater demons are definitely the tougher ones.

Oh all of this is comparing to the durability of something like a leman russ which is the bare minimum of durability, and the hemlock being the most durable big thing you can bring the 3 greater demons i listed will be about as durable as a hemlock wraith fighter against guard and more so against space marines and the like.

What about the keeper of secrets ?

It only has a 5++ and a mere 12 wounds it does only cost 223pts but that is 223 wasted points when it dies on turn 1 before getting to do anything (doesn't even have a good aura)

**Rydria**

You can still use the index rules for them like you can for all the other things that don't get moved into the codex.

It is more sad that supposedly somethings aren't getting changed at all, no point decreases or buffs.

Bloodletters are outright better than daemonettes now, daemonette speed advantage is completely negated by khorne armies ability to deep strike 9 away with 3d6 re-rollerble charges.

Something slaanesh armies can't replicate because they don't have the passive re-roll aura or the 3d6 charges they are also weaker/have inferior dps once they reach combat :/

**Rydria**

We can still use index profiles for anything not in the codex so we still have access to the slaanesh mounted heralds.

Even then it is probably be better to deep strike the herald into position to pass on the advance and charge buff (assuming seeker lost the ability to do this independently)

**Rydria**

3rdlegion wrote:
Slaanesh got the shaft... ironically or perhaps not.

I would prefer to deepstrike the Herald in.

Seekers losing the advance and charge ability makes the lack of a mounted Herald option to confer this ability a doubly blow... oh the irony haha

They will likely go down in pts if they lose the inherent advance and charge. This means we can just deep strike a herald into position for them to regain it while also receiving the crucial +1 STR. We haven’t lost the mounts any profile not updated means you still use index.

**Rydria**

Keepers of Secrets are pretty good duellists now, with the ability to give a character they are fighting -3 to hit, -1 from there aura, -1 from the witstealer and the another -1 from the stratagem.

**Rydria**

You know what is annoying about the mounts for slaanesh not getting updated, the new version of the foot herald has a better melee weapon than the index heralds. :/

Her claws do 2 damage now instead of 1 which would have been really nice on the mounted heralds.

Edit: Amusingly on facebook, Slaanesh faction focus got more likes than both Nurgle and Tzeentch I didn't expect this though khorne having the most isn't a surprise.

**Rydria**

Exalted seeker chariot has actually been massively buffed this is why it costs 8pts more for starters it now has 12 wounds instead of 10 and its weapon skill is far far better.

WS (index)
2+ >> 4+ >> 6+

WS (codex)
2+ >> 3+ >> 4+

So for 8pts we got 2 extra wounds and a far better degrading stat line i'm really happy with this, it is definitely worth an 8pts increase, it may actually be better than the regular chariot now 30pts gives it twice the number of wounds, a superior impact hit rule (5+ instead of 6+) more attacks better initial weapon skill (for the first 6 wounds) then equal weapon skill until near death.

**Rydria**

Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm not so secretly hoping my beloved LoC and Kairos got more love than the leaks indicated.

They could have, I mean the leaker said slaanesh had no notable buffs and let's be real that exalted chariot is substantially better.

**Rydria**

Lou_Cypher wrote:
I forgot. But if there's a stratagem that adds +1 to Invul Saves, that would combine well with Ephemeral Form and the Impossible Robe for a potential 2++ yes?

The stratagem and robe both say to a maximum of 3+

**Rydria**

Sersi wrote:
Zarakynel got a lot more interesting with advance and charge, deep strike and the new Warlord traits. Not to mention her Aura of Exquisite Despair that causes enemy units within 6” suffer up to -2 LD. Combo that with Phantasmagoria's 12” -1 LD bubble and enemies within 6” are taking morale tests with -3LD. Used correctly she could inflict massive casualties.

cacophonic choir got buffed too, it is now warp charge 6 instead of 7 and if you roll 10 for the psychic test you get to add +2 to the 2d6 result.

Sersi wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rydria wrote:
Keepers of Secrets are pretty good duellists now, with the ability to give a character they are fighting -3 to hit, -1 from there aura, -1 from the witstealer and the another -1 from the stratagem.

Are you talking about the Aura of Acquiescence stratagem? That's -1 attack not -1 to hit, the same effect though against models with multiple attacks. You could then cast Symphony of Pain for an additional -1 to hit; for -3 to hit and -1 attack. Or go crazy and take the Bewitching Aura warlord trait and that character is potentially suffering -3 attacks and -2 to hit. Excessive indeed.

The Keeper of secrets now has a debuff aura that gives -1 to hit to all enemies within 3 inch of it. So if you stack it with the witstealer and the psychic power that is a -3 to hit when are trying to hit the keeper of secrets.

**Rydria**

orkswubwub wrote:
Do nurgle herald's still exist? Looking at what is out for the codex so far there are no point values and it is not listed in the codex. It is only in the index. Can I still use a herald as part of a legal Chaos Daemon detachment (with access to strats, relics, etc.)? It can only access spells in the index though?

They just got renamed that is all

**Rydria**

What are people's thoughts on the soulstealer daemon prince ?

**Rydria**

Raulengrin wrote:
Rydria wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the soulstealer daemon prince ?

I actually quite like it. Think, especially with some of the warlord traits, strategems, and psychic powers Slaanesh has available, he might be rather hard to kill while being killy himself. Already stuck a sword on my prince(ss).

I have 2 princes with swords, which have taken a backseat to my claw princess, i can't wait to use them again.

The warlord trait is a really hard choice, there quite a few great ones, the -1 attack aura, the +3 movement, the +d3 attacks on the charge are all good.

**Rydria**

On the subject of mount attacks, is there strength buffed by the aura of a herald or is it always strength 4 ? (for a seeker)

**Rydria**

I've been out of the game for awhile, how is mono-slaanesh daemons in the current codex ?

**Rydria**

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Rydria wrote:
I've been out of the game for awhile, how is mono-slaanesh daemons in the current codex ?

They're in there and they're not too terrible, but to me they're in a weird place where with the exception of the Fiend of Slannesh Khorne does everything they can do except better.

Unfortunately they seem to be left in the dust as GW tries to casually move away from them without actually having to admit they're moving away form them. So I wouldn't expect any Slannesh love in the near or far future.

That is a shame I was looking forward to the codex as everything felt over costed in the index by a few points.

**Rydria**

Thanks for your replies, I do hope the fulgrim rumour is true since I have a huge slaanesh daemon army and a sizeable emperor's children army.

**Rydria**

So it's better to run smaller 10 man units than it is to go full horde with lesser daemons ?

How would you run seekers and fiends now in large full sized units ?

**Rydria**

blackmage wrote:
yes those FW demons have weird cost they put the God sacred number 666 for her 777 for Nurgle and 888 for Korne... Fw things we already know they set cost randomly with no sense

She used to be more reasonably costed at like 400pts but then chapter approved made her 666 pts again for gimmick sake, it is such a stupid gimmick

**Rydria**

I'd probably prefer it if they changed the forge world daemon lords to being generic than being special characters, like they are in age of sigmar