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 Cephalobeard wrote:
I look forward to upping to six by the end of the month. Changeling and his giant puppies are excited to run up at people.

I haven't played any games with Giant Spawn yet, don't have the models, just curious if your opponents have noticed how gimped they become if you just make sure to inflict 1 wound on each of them turn 1, and how you've dealt with that. Spawn are weird in being the only model (that I know of) that degrades as soon as it takes a single wound, dropping to only 3 + D3" movement at 9 wounds remaining. Seems like it would be difficult to get them across the field at that waddling pace.

Having thought about everything an now I have 2 lists in mind
basic difference is more Flamers and Horrors VS more Heralds and Furies


2x Battalion Detachment
3x Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings, Malefic talons
3x 10 Horros
6x Exalted Flamer
2x 6 Chaos Furies

2x Herald of Tzeentch on Disc,
The Changeling
3x10 Horros
3x 3 Flamers
2x 5 Chaos Furies

VS:

Battalion Detachment + Supreme Command Detachment
3x Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings, Malefic talons
3x 10 Horros
6x Exalted Flamer
3x 9 Chaos Furies

4x Herald of Tzeentch on Disc
The Changeling
1x 3 Flamers

Which ones are correct on the right if:
a) green is infantry
b) green has FLY

Distance is at least 9" and you can't charge because you cannot place your model and the enemy is more than 1" away (base to base) if you place it below them

However the wobbly model syndrome rule says if you can't place a model somewhere, you can imagine it there instead. So on any milimeter of the table you can place the model.

It has even been adressed in the FAQ
Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot completely end its move on a floor of ruins when attempting to scale the walls?
A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome guidelines in the core rules to identify with your opponent where your model’s actual location is.

So you are completely wrong

The green 14" charge range is the correct one, sadly and illogically.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 whembly wrote:
So... I plan on bringing 2 Giant Spawns for my next tournament...

Which marks is the best for these guys??

MoT for 4++

or

MoN for 5++ and 5+++ for DR???

On there own 5++/5+++ is mathimatically better then 4++ but if you are running the Changeling then tzeentch is better

This.

I look forward to upping to six by the end of the month. Changeling and his giant puppies are excited to run up at people.

I got my hands on two of these...
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rotbringers-Morbidex-Twiceborn

So, I'm trying to decide to paint them nurgley and use 'em as MoN Giant spawn, or if I should somehow "Tzeentch" it up for MoT.

I think MoN would be fine if they're used as distraction Carnifexes... no?

Now you are mixing WAAC with fair play

If you cannot place a model because it will fall down it is legal to just asume it is there

using that rule to get in between 4 models standing base to base because there is 1mm space in the centre of them is something different.

 kodos wrote:
Now you are mixing WAAC with fair play

If you cannot place a model because it will fall down it is legal to just asume it is there

using that rule to get in between 4 models standing base to base because there is 1mm space in the centre of them is something-different.

Dude, there is literally a question about this exact situation in the FAQ. So you think it's normal that a full melee army can do literally nothing against a ruin full of people? Isn't THAT WAAC?

And I mean 1mm on the side of the ruin. Not in the middle of models...

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The green 14" charge range is the correct one, sadly and illogically.

why?
everything is measured and moved with the shortest line
so real 3D is a thing and there is nor rule that overrides the core rules and say if you move up 3" measure first horizontal and than vertical

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The green 14" charge range is the correct one, sadly and illogically.

But FLG measure like this...
https://clips.twitch.tv/AverageAliveNostrilCeilingCat

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Dude, there is literally a question about this exact situation in the FAQ. So you think it's normal that a full melee army can do literally nothing against a ruin full of people? Isn't THAT WAAC?

this are the current rules, if you are melee only and someone placed all his models in the first level of a ruin with no place left you are done
they FAQ only allow you to use Wobbly Model Syndrome if you cannot complete a move to a stable position and not if there is no space at all to place it

8th rules are bad written an part of them are more stupid than any previous version

To go around this problem some tournaments here have a houserule that expands melee range from 1" to 1" horizontal and 3" vertical (in correlation to the unit formation rule with 2" and 6")
because we had this problem from time to time in previous tournaments, especially those that used original GW terrain

 kodos wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Dude, there is literally a question about this exact situation in the FAQ. So you think it's normal that a full melee army can do literally nothing against a ruin full of people? Isn't THAT WAAC?

this are the current rules, if you are melee only and someone placed all his models in the first level of a ruin with no place left you are done
they FAQ only allow you to use Wobbly Model Syndrome if you cannot complete a move to a stable position and not if there is no space at all to place it

8th rules are bad written an part of them are more stupid than any previous version

To go around this problem some tournaments here have a houserule that expands melee range from 1" to 1" horizontal and 3" vertical (in correlation to the unit formation rule with 2" and 6")
because we had this problem from time to time in previous tournaments, especially those that used original GW terrain

This is what I mean


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:

especially those that used original GW terrain

EXACTLY. This is the thing that just makes me triggered. They are the ones creating the damn problem and not adressing it properlly. All I've got from everytime I asked anything about this question is "uhhh you measure in 3D"

 kodos wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The green 14" charge range is the correct one, sadly and illogically.

why?
everything is measured and moved with the shortest line
so real 3D is a thing and there is nor rule that overrides the core rules and say if you move up 3" measure first horizontal and than vertical

See question 3:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The green 14" charge range is the correct one, sadly and illogically.

why?
everything is measured and moved with the shortest line
so real 3D is a thing and there is nor rule that overrides the core rules and say if you move up 3" measure first horizontal and than vertical

See question 3:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

I think they are explaining this.

Why can't they just use images to explain stuff like this. I've gotten every answer 3 times... Literally 9 people split 3 ways....

yeah, they explain the difference between fly and not-fly units regarding terrain

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

See question 3:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

yeah, the FAQ say how to go over an obstacle, but this does not override the core rule that say distance between 2 bases is always measured the shortest way
so if you went over a Aegis, you do as in the FAQ, if you attack something in the first level of a ruin you measure the direct line

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

This is what I mean

would be up to the tournament you play
some say no you cannot because you cannot place them, others say at least 50% of the base for WMS, and others say place them below because the have the 3" vertical melee house rule

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

EXACTLY. This is the thing that just makes me triggered. They are the ones creating the damn problem and not adressing it properlly. All I've got from everytime I asked anything about this question is "uhhh you measure in 3D"

They made their terrain according to the rules of 4th edition
they never changed their design to fit TLOS or anything else and 4th edition terrain is not suited for 8th edition at all

and they actually don't care to write clear rules
maybe we get some of the most used Houserules from ITC added by the time, but GW would say, roll a dice and on a 4+ they can charge

Hmmm.... so the new Weaver of Fate Psychic Power...

Could that be used to give Aetaos'Rau'Keres a 2++ or does that only apply to Tzeentch CSMs?

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Hmmm.... so the new Weaver of Fate Psychic Power...

Could that be used to give Aetaos'Rau'Keres a 2++ or does that only apply to Tzeentch CSMs?

Is Aetaos a Tzeentch Heretic Astartes?

The entire point of that wobbly model syndrome vs the ruin is the represent the assaulter scaling the walls, and the reason they can attack you is because they are stabbing your men threw the windows/holes in he ruin.

The reason you can't place the model is because we have yet to invent affordable flying bases (except that 1 guy with eldar magnet bases)

just don't use bases at all and there is no problem

Sokhar wrote:

 Lou_Cypher wrote:
Hmmm.... so the new Weaver of Fate Psychic Power...

Could that be used to give Aetaos'Rau'Keres a 2++ or does that only apply to Tzeentch CSMs?

Is Aetaos a Tzeentch Heretic Astartes?

Magnus is pretty happy about this power now though.

So in one of the BCP sponsored tournaments the dude in first place has:
6x 3 nurglings
10x Malefic Lords
Oh and 1400(!!!) summoning points. Well then...
Like, what else do you summon apart from bloodletters. Go full yolo and try to summon scabby
Because what else would you summon instead of just placing in your list to begin with? Fiends of slaanesh?

You can very easily summon 100+ Horrors, Changeling, then however many Herald's you want and proceed to walk forward smiting things to death.

New FAQ puts icons at 15 pts. Worth taking at all?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
New FAQ puts icons at 15 pts. Worth taking at all?

Oh... interesting... however with the price drops to models it still may be better to take 2 more dudes instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
You can very easily summon 100+ Horrors, Changeling, then however many Herald's you want and proceed to walk forward smiting things to death.

Yeah but why not have them on the board to begin with? They are not fragile and they don't need to charge anything... so to move 12 instead of 6+d6? But then your lords don't move and might take wounds, I dnno. Maybe this is the way to go...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
New FAQ puts icons at 15 pts. Worth taking at all?

Oh... interesting... however with the price drops to models it still may be better to take 2 more dudes instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
You can very easily summon 100+ Horrors, Changeling, then however many Herald's you want and proceed to walk forward smiting things to death.

Yeah but why not have them on the board to begin with? They are not fragile and they don't need to charge anything... so to move 12 instead of 6+d6? But then your lords don't move and might take wounds, I dnno. Maybe this is the way to go...

Because you physically can't have them on the board to begin with.

You take a Batallion w/ 3 Lord's and 3 troops, then 2 Supreme Commands with 5 Lords each.

You get 13 Lord's, then whatever troops you want.

You can then summon 13 HQs if you want, because you can summon outside of force org.

 Rydria wrote:
i find it really annoying that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and slaanesh are fake keywords sorry you're playing chaos soap because you're playing a mixed mono god army (even though Khorne actually had a codex for that last edition)

Why would this not be allowed? It's in the Faction Keywords list.

Aelyn wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
i find it really annoying that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and slaanesh are fake keywords sorry you're playing chaos soap because you're playing a mixed mono god army (even though Khorne actually had a codex for that last edition)

Why would this not be allowed? It's in the Faction Keywords list.

You lose objective secured if you have a mixed army, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh aren't factions so if you put 1 chaos space marine daemon unit in your daemon army all your troops lose obsec.

 Rydria wrote:

Aelyn wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
i find it really annoying that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and slaanesh are fake keywords sorry you're playing chaos soap because you're playing a mixed mono god army (even though Khorne actually had a codex for that last edition)

Why would this not be allowed? It's in the Faction Keywords list.

You lose objective secured if you have a mixed army, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh aren't factions so if you put 1 chaos space marine daemon unit in your daemon army all your troops lose obsec.

Why aren't they factions? They're in the Faction Keywords section, right?

And chaos is a faction anyway right?