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I'd say the next one will be Lion. Sanguinius is dead, and him being dead is too important to the fluff and the Chapter that they could just fix him up again. Lion is just sleeping in his rock, let Cawl visit him and viola, 2 loyalist Primarchs up and running again. And they could release him in the new Codex Dark Angels, how convenient is that?

Wolves had their spotlight at the end of 7th, and the Vanilla guys had their spotlight at the start of 8th. So it's gonna be Lion at some point and then - hopefully - a long time of no new Primarchs. Give the other factions some love. Maybe release Vulkan, Corax or Khan once the other factions got new toys or at least their new Codex.

I want Angron next. I mean look at this dude:

The Lion is the only primarch that would sit down with Guilliman, listen to Guilliman explain his plans, agree they are probably the best course of action, and then tell Guilliman to go feth himself, he does what he wants.

Every other Loyalist would be a second fiddle to Guilliman, and follow his plans since that was his thing. The Lion would make some internal conflict, and probably be the most interesting narrative wise.

Though seeing GW doing the Khan, riding a jet bike, with a few bisected traitors beneath him...

 Gamgee wrote:
I think Primarch's that are dead in 40k timeline should stay dead. I think this is a great opportunity for GW to advance the lore and make new Primarch's for those dead. This way they get their fun toys, it doesn't break the lore, it's an interesting story of trying to find just who would be worthy of becoming a successor Primarch, and it doesn't invalidate the sacrifices and lore of those lost. Think of what Sanguinus successor would say and think if he knew he had to live up the legacy of his predeccesor. it would be a great story to see him dealing with those emotions and coming into his own. You also then get the whole inexperienced Primarch angle going on so they can contrast with the older more grim ones.

I like the way you think.

I still think that a headless frankenstinian monstrosity made from Ferrus Manus's body taken to Mars and implanted with a rudimentary brain-in-a-jar it wears on its back is hilarious.

You could even have a unit that swaps out the brain mid-battle for another brain. "MANUS SMASH!" "Wait no we need psychic powers!" *swaps in psychic brain!* "MANUS MIND-BULLET BUT FORGET HOW TO FIGHT UUUGNNGNG"

I really don't see them holding back with Leman Russ. His return heralds the end times, but hey, we're there. The 13th Black Crusade happened, Guilliman is back, the Maledictum is stretching across the galaxy. The thing that everyone was begging GW to do (advancing the plot a little closer to doomsday) happened, and lo and behold, we're even CLOSER to doomsday.

Leman Russ, Vulkan, and the Lion seem like the most probably choices to return, with Jaghatai, Corvus, and Dorn bringing up the less likely ones (in that order). Sanguinus should stay dead, as should Manus.

Chaos is more interesting, as you have a much greater variety of Primarchs that can return. Lorgar, Perturabo, Angron, and Fulgrim are all on the table. I would Imagine Fulgrim and Angron being the two chosen, but I can totally see Lorgar or Pert getting the nod.

An interesting twist I still hear about is making one Chaos Primarch turn face and one Loyalist turn heel. In that sense the two most obvious ones are Leman (not so much turn to Chaos but turn on the sham and mockery of his father's legacy that is the Imperium) and Fulgrim finally getting out of the mirror.

My take on it is this.

Chaos will get the 'big four' chaos god primarchs. We've already got Magnus, and we're getting Mortarion shortly. We'll get Fulgrim next I suspect (for chaos, I'll clarify, no idea on when he'll actually have a model released, next year some time or maybe longer) and then Angron will round out the list. They referenced Fulgrim in the last Gathering Storm book in a brief blurb, so they're laying at least a little groundwork for his model in the future.

For Imperial, it's going to be a little trickier.

I expect we will get at least three more primarchs to fight alongside Guilliman. The obvious choice for one is the Lion, and I expect him to be here sooner rather than later.
Past that, it's a toss up. Russ is likely, as is Khan, both would be good alongside Guilliman and the Lion, especially the love/hate relationship with Russ and the Lion.

We'll see what comes in due course.

I also will add that I do personally hope to see Sanguinius revived in some way. People say he needs to stay dead, that's fine and well, but if GW decides to do it, and it is quite possible they could through at least one avenue, then folks are just going to have to accept it or leave the hobby, and I can think of better reason for leaving the hobby than a character being revived from the dead. It's rather childish to make that 'threat', to leave the hobby all together, especially if you don't even play the faction this would impact directly (Blood Angels, or their successor chapters).
I feel like we will get Sanguinius back in some form or another, personally. Time will tell.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

The rumour I have heard is that Russ will be the next loyalist Primarch to return with the idea that he is hot on the heels of Magnus after what he (nearly) did to the Fenris system in WoM. I would expect Russ in Spring 2018 assuming GW continue there pattern of 1 traitor and 1 loyalist Primarch per year.

I have not heard any reliable rumours about who will be coming after that. The Lion is a good bet, especially since the 7th Ed codex made a big thing about the fact he is fully healed and ready to go. He doesn't even require a shiny big plot device suit of armour like Roboute, just an alarm clock.

I don't know where the loyalists will go after that. There was a plan a very long time ago that Sanguinius would return by possessing Mephiston but that was before they released the Sanguinor so it may well have been abandoned. Sufficeit to say, they have at least 2 characters who could potentially wind up being Sangy reincarnated.

The other Primarchs could easily turn up too. Vulkan and Khan are simply missing (I always like the idea that the ominous force hammering on Khaine's Gate in Comorragh was actually a seriously peeved Khan trying to smash his way out of the Webway). Lorgar and Perturabo could turn up easily enough too.

Dorn is an interesting one particularly in light of "Praetorian of Dorn".

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Biohavok wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If they bring back Sanguinius then I think I will be done with this game. The whole point is that Sanguinius sacrificed himself and was totally and utterly destroyed by Horus.

Remove that and you remove the entire point of the sacrifice.

I'm with this 100%!

I've been a BA player since the mid 90s "Angels of Death" codex dropped and I believe bringing back ol' Sangy
would be the worst mistake GW could make in regards to the 40k fluff/universe.

Honestly, giving individual SM chapters their own codicies was a mistake. After that, bring on Sanguinius!

How do you rate individual Chapter codices a mistake? They have always been popular and add choice/flavour to the game.

They're un-necessary. Their army rules are 90%+ similar to ordinary space marines, and could have been covered just as well by simply making space marines themselves a bit more flexible.

Hell, 8th edition BA could have been represented by simply taking lots of fast attack choice detachments and stuffing your list with assault marines.

The rest could be easily done with chapter tactics, relics, warlord traits, and stratagems.

As for the fluff, I'm not opposed to releasing fluff books for individual chapters, especially if they were divorced from any kind of edition rules. That way they could spend the time fleshing out a chapter once, rather than polluting the release schedule with them every. single. edition.

As for choice/flavor to the game...

Every single chapter codex released is a new xenox army that wasn't.

They're a new actual game expansion that didn't happen.

SWs was possibly a Sisters of Battle codex that got scrapped.

Dark Angels was possibly a Kroot Codex.

Blood Angels was possibly an earlier Adeptus Mechanicus.

Everything gets sidelined for space marines. Every. Single. Time.

It's frustrating.

Just think about all of the other things that could have been added to the game in their place, if they had been handled more efficiently and grouped with the rest of the marines where they belong.

We could have more Orks. More Eldar. More 'nids. More Necrons. More Tau. More IG. More Ad Mech.

Just look at how big the SM codex is compared to all the other army codicies. Then understand that the page-count imbalance between them and the rest of the armies in the game is partly due to the Blood Angels.

...and the Dark Angels.
...and the Space Wolves.
...and the Gray Knights.

I'd have absolutely no problem with the additional codicies if the xenos armies had gotten the same treatment. If the playing field were even between factions. Unfortunately they're not, and until I see more time and effort spent expanding on the other armies I'll continue to believe that the chapter codicies are still mistakes. If Eldar and Orks also had four codicies each, I'd be less inclined to be annoyed by the imbalance.

They don't. So here I am.

TL;DR: Codex: BA was a mistake because SM was the only faction to get that kind of attention.

Lorgar is specifically called out as being active again (finally) at the head of an enormous host of Word Bearers.

One other thing to note, Karhedron, regarding the Gathering Storm books:

There was a reference to Trayzen (spelling?) having a giant hulking figure in golden armor in his collection. This could possibly be Dorn, as he wore a golden suit of power armor, or it might also be Vulkan too, depending on how much gold his armor has. It's a toss up, but either option might be interesting to consider.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if we get the 'big four' primarchs to match the 'big four' chaos gods.

The big four primarchs being Ultramarines (Guilliman), Space Wolves (Leman Russ), Dark Angels (Lion El-Johnson), and Blood Angels (Sanguinius). If we get the Lion or Russ next after Mortarion, that only further lends credence to that theory.

Seems like a logical step, but of course we won't know till it happens or credible rumors start flowing. Time will tell.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Yes, Trazyn's collectible giant in power armour is a nice plot hook waiting for GW to dangle something juicy from it. It is sufficiently vague that it could be anything from a missing Primarch to the last Thunder Warrior.

I agree that the Big 4 Primarchs on each side seem likely although Sanguinious is somewhat problematic. Still, if GW hold to their current release schedule, they have until 2020 to decide on a suitable plot to bring him back. I am sure they will dangle enough hints before then to soften up the doubters.

Cawl will no doubt be the instigator of bringing Sanguinus back because f*** Cawl.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Cawl will no doubt be the instigator of bringing Sanguinus back because f*** Cawl.

I actually foresee Cawl having nothing to do with Sanguinius reviving, honestly.

The only outside force I can see logically doing anything with it would be Yvraine, and her reviving power. Cawl only came into play to put the power armor on Guilliman to keep him alive and the poison in his system at bay once Yvraine revived him.

Sanguinius, if revived, would presumably have had his wounds healed in the process. Speculation of course.

We'll see. Lots of time to wait and see what comes.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

It would be nice to see Manus show up so the Iron Hands could finally get a character. But knowing GW, I am not holding my breathe. But I think they could do an amazing job bringing him back as monstrous dreadnought. Most of the Iron Hands players I know (a surprisingly large number in my area) would buy the model in a heartbeat.

This thread is funny to read, people are longing for Primarchs that have essentially dissappeared and never heard of since. And these are considered probable characters to return.

Meanwhile several chaos primarchs have never dissappeared and reading fluff have been there all the time, mostly bickering between themselves and who knows what else.

Anyway, knowing GW of the past, most likely to return are the said Loyalist dissappeared primarchs. GW is in the business of doing money, and doing money generally works in the way of providing something for the majority (space marines!) and thus Space Marines will get more nice stuff, to their already bloated selection.
Ok enough with saltiness, here is my honest opinion:

I liked the old setting of fluff, where Primarchs were these semi-mythical heroes of old, the facts and fiction starting to get mixed with them. This is actually very common trope in fantasy settings, mostly because it leaves it upon one's imagination how these primarchs or mythical characters actually were. Also following up on this trope logically, consider the fact of primarchs used to be depicted in fluff as these demigod-like mythical superheroes. What if the actual unwritten truth of dissappeared loyalist primarchs is that they just grew old and tired and died in the end - not very flashy or even mythical way to go. This would explain many of the mysterious stories of dissappearing primarchs in the old and current fluff. But all in all 40k fluff is man made fiction, so it can be changed at will any time, and this kind of logical analysis of it is essentially pointless. Although I had fun thinking about this now, and I have had fun thinking about it when I was 14 years old.

By releasing primarchs this aspect is taken away, we can calculate easily that Roboute Guilliman is statistically more durable than Land Raider when shot with Lascannons. There is nothing mythical there, this primarch is genetically enginereed super hulk more durable than a heavy tank.

They should IMO forget the primarchs (not gonna happen) and concentrate on giving all the subfactions of various factions their own special characters, in similar way how many space marine chapters already have their own special characters.

It would be nice if other factions, like Eldar and Tyranids, got their own 'Primarch' sort of models. Large, leader-type figures that could be the centerpiece of an army. Unlike AoS, 40k doesn't have as many large 'centerpiece' models. The Primarchs fit that role, as do the Imperial Knights and other big mechanical things, but some armies have more than others and it creates a visual and rule-based imbalance.

That's the big thing that these Primarchs are bringing to the table. A real tangible imbalance.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If they bring back Sanguinius then I think I will be done with this game. The whole point is that Sanguinius sacrificed himself and was totally and utterly destroyed by Horus.

Remove that and you remove the entire point of the sacrifice.

Of course, thatw hole thing is, in and of itself, a retcon.

Originally, he died at the hands of a Blood Thirster, slain at the gate of the Emperor's Palace. Back snapped and hurled to the ground, his dying thoughts echo'd in the minds of the Blood Angels there, and the echo of that moment is the Black Rage.

Meanwhile, in the final confrontation between the Emperor and Horus, with Horus winning, a single Imperial Guardsman (lowest of the low!) staggered in and dstracted Horus from the killing blow. This man, Ollanius Pius, was *brutally* murdered by Horus, which is when the Emperor, bloodied and beaten, realized that his son was gone and finally took the last step and zapped his brain to dust.

Ollanius Pius had an AMAZING story and it's a shame that he's been displaced by Sanguinus in newer versions.

drbored wrote:
It would be nice if other factions, like Eldar and Tyranids, got their own 'Primarch' sort of models. Large, leader-type figures that could be the centerpiece of an army.

Many races do. Eldar have the Avatar and now the Yncarne. Nids have various big gribblies to lead them. Orks have Gazzy who is almost in the same size bracket. Necrons have C'tan, Tau have bigger suits. Chaos have Daemon princes and greater Daemons. Primarchs are really just giving the Imps MC-sized leaders.

 Karhedron wrote:

drbored wrote:
It would be nice if other factions, like Eldar and Tyranids, got their own 'Primarch' sort of models. Large, leader-type figures that could be the centerpiece of an army.

Many races do. Eldar have the Avatar and now the Yncarne. Nids have various big gribblies to lead them. Orks have Gazzy who is almost in the same size bracket. Necrons have C'tan, Tau have bigger suits. Chaos have Daemon princes and greater Daemons. Primarchs are really just giving the Imps MC-sized leaders.

LolGazzy.

Fluffwise, he should be in the same bracket as Primarch Roboute. Gamewise, he's barely Space Marine Captain Joe Bloggs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
Then there's the image on the inside of the cover of the 40k 8th ed rulebook that shows a figure very much looking like Sanguinius fighting Chaos!

Where is this picture? I have checked my copy of the 8th BRB and I can't see anything that looks vaguely Sanguinius-ey in either the first or last few pages

It's on the inside cover at the back I believe. Certainly looks like Sanguinius; human looking with large feathered wings. I'd much rather see the Sanguinor buffed and rereleased with a beastly mini rather than Sanguinius being revived. If Sanguinius returns then I feel we are in the same neighbourhood as Horus reincarnating or the Emperor not being a skeleton in a chair anymore.

Bremon wrote:
It's on the inside cover at the back I believe. Certainly looks like Sanguinius; human looking with large feathered wings.

Hmm, doesn't seem to be in my digital version. I'll have to steal back my real life copy and take a look. I pretty much always use the digital version now, it's so much easier.

That scene with Sanguinius outside the throne room has been used a lot of times though, it's a pretty iconic scene. I remember the Nottingham warhammer world used to have a big diorama of it many years ago. (May still be there, I havent been there in a long time)

Median Trace wrote:
It would be nice to see Manus show up so the Iron Hands could finally get a character. But knowing GW, I am not holding my breathe. But I think they could do an amazing job bringing him back as monstrous dreadnought. Most of the Iron Hands players I know (a surprisingly large number in my area) would buy the model in a heartbeat.

I would say the fact he was decapitated prevents him from coming back even as a dreadnought. However, Fulgrim had several clones of Manus made (because Fulgrim missed Manus). All the clones thought Fulgrim was a traitor and tried to kill him. Who is to say a clone doesn't somehow escape or avoid death and be found.

However I doubt it will happen as GW failed to even give the Iron Hands decent rules this time around.

Which is why I do not like the return of the Primarchs. They are just more buffs to other armies that the Iron Hands will never get. If the lack of primarch was made up elsewhere it wouldn't even be an issue for me.

Really really really hope for Wulfen mode Leman Russ, would be so cool to have a giant beast emerge from the Eye ready to dominate close combat

Loyalists shouldn't have had their Primarchs return in the first place. At least the Daemon Primarchs where always there, it was - as lazy as they were - one of the few things that made Chaos seem remotely threatening, the fact their Primarchs are still in the galaxy and actively working to bring down the Imperium. The moment GW started bring back the Loyalists the already pathetic threat Chaos felt like just shrunk even more.

 Arandmoor wrote:

They're un-necessary. Their army rules are 90%+ similar to ordinary space marines, and could have been covered just as well by simply making space marines themselves a bit more flexible.

Hell, 8th edition BA could have been represented by simply taking lots of fast attack choice detachments and stuffing your list with assault marines.

The rest could be easily done with chapter tactics, relics, warlord traits, and stratagems.

TL;DR: Codex: BA was a mistake because SM was the only faction to get that kind of attention.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. A Kroot codex? Really? Different Ork codexes? They have their tribes that work.

Since 2nd Edition the game has had Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves with their own books, although the scope of the books and ranges has varied. They're quite popular, so they keep getting made. Like it or not Space Marines are at the heart of the game. Look at the literature. Space Marines work because they are elevated/enhanced humans that we can still relate to in some manner.

I would LOVE to have Deamon Angron in 40k I love him in my 12th for 30k.

I was browsing the latest White Dwarf, and Vulkan got several mentions in their 30 years of 40k lists. I don't know why but it stuck out to me, at least more than any other mentions. Maybe foreshadowing, maybe the White Dwarf team just really likes him, but either way I think seeing him back next would make a lot of sense.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

They're un-necessary. Their army rules are 90%+ similar to ordinary space marines, and could have been covered just as well by simply making space marines themselves a bit more flexible.

Hell, 8th edition BA could have been represented by simply taking lots of fast attack choice detachments and stuffing your list with assault marines.

The rest could be easily done with chapter tactics, relics, warlord traits, and stratagems.

TL;DR: Codex: BA was a mistake because SM was the only faction to get that kind of attention.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. A Kroot codex? Really? Different Ork codexes? They have their tribes that work.

Since 2nd Edition the game has had Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves with their own books, although the scope of the books and ranges has varied. They're quite popular, so they keep getting made. Like it or not Space Marines are at the heart of the game. Look at the literature. Space Marines work because they are elevated/enhanced humans that we can still relate to in some manner.

apparently GW somehow owes it to him to produce armies that won't sell a quarter as well