Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

I wanted to discuss a thing that I think we're going to see happening here into the future. There's a lot of conflicting noise about certain release schedules of Codexes, and I know GW doesn't want to be 'predictable' when it comes to releases, lest their competitors get a leg up.

That said, I'm going to throw a little theory out there. The theory is that we are, eventually, going to see 4 plastic Loyalist Primarchs and 4 plastic Chaos Primarchs before 8th edition is done.

This all began with 30k - Horus Heresy - released by Forgeworld. Because it was Marine v Marine, with many of the armies sharing most of the rules for units and weapons, it was one of the most balanced games to come out of the 40k franchise. It became a huge success very quickly, and when the first resin Primarchs were revealed, people went absolutely bonkers. So far, Forgeworld has done 13 of the Primarchs of the original Legions. That means only 5 more for the known Legions are left, a staggering display of sculpting and character prowess. Here they all are, for your convenience:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Magnus-the-Red-Primarch-of-the-Thousand-Sons-Legion-2017
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Perturabo-Primarch-of-the-Iron-Warriors
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Corvus-Corax
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Horus-the-Warmaster-Primarch-of-the-Sons-of-Horus
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/roboute-guilliman-primarch-of-the-ultramarines
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Ferrus-Manus-Primarch-of-the-Iron-Hands
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Fulgrim-Primarch-of-the-Emperor-s-Children
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Mortarion-the-Reaper-Primarch-of-the-Death-Guard
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Lorgar-Primarch-of-the-Word-Bearers
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Konrad-Curze-Primarch-of-the-Night-Lords
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Vulkan-Primarch-of-the-Salamanders
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Angron-Primarch-of-the-World-Eaters
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Leman-Russ-Primarch-of-the-Space-Wolves

That leaves Rogal Dorn, Alpharius Omegon, Lion El'Johnson, Sangunius, and Jaghatai Khan.

During the time of Forgeworld releasing these Primarchs, there was a lot of talk of 'What about the Daemon Primarchs?' and there were various FW staff saying they wanted very much, or that they planned, to do the Daemon Primarchs, showing the fall of these great loyalists into the corruption of Chaos.

Fast forward to now. Magnus the Red comes out. GW doing the Daemon Primarchs? Unthinkable! It pushed the 8th edition rumors into overdrive, and when it finally hit, here we have Roboute Guilliman coming back from the dead, with Mortarion fast on his heels! Then there's the image on the inside of the cover of the 40k 8th ed rulebook that shows a figure very much looking like Sanguinius fighting Chaos!

First, it seems really unbalanced and a bit unfair to have just the one Loyalist Primarch. Setting aside fluff reasons, game balance is bonkers right now, with many Space Marine lists mandating taking this guy to bulk out your army. But that leaves a lot of other Chapters scratching their head. Iron Hands lead by Roboute Guilliman? Better yet, Space Wolves led by the Primarch of the Ultramarines? It makes for a bland meta where non-Marines focus on how they can take down Guilliman instead of building their armies the way they want to.

So, what's the answer? Or rather, what's the answer GW wants? In other words, what's the answer that is going to get people to buy more models? More Primarchs.

I'm calling it now. We're going to see Leman Russ, Lion El'Johnson, Sanguinius, Daemon Fulgrim, and Daemon Angron before 8th edition is done. Notice that Forgeworld hasn't done two of those loyalist sculpts yet, and they haven't done any of the Daemon Primarchs that they said they would. This is because FW is a sub-company under GW. GW has every right to take on well-selling projects and make them their own, in plastic. Need proof? Look at the Horus Heresy box set, the Contemptor, the Cataphractii Terminators, and other 30k things that GW has put out.

What do you guys think? What sorts of fluff do you think they might use to bring back Sanguinius, Leman, and the Lion?

Quick side note, Rogal Dorn by forgeworld is done and should be out soon. They're currently working on Alpharius.

Simply bringing Sanguinius back to life would not be appropriate. They should release a fancy supersized Sanguinor instead and pump his rules to Primarch levels *hint hint*.

Sanguinius - The Sanguinor turned out to be his soul all along and just needed a body.

Leman Russ - Comes back from the Eye (this is applicable to Corax as well)

Lion - Nothing really. DA lore states that the one secret even the Grand Master doesn't know is that the Lion sleeps within the deepest chamber of the Rock, he just need to be called upon to awaken (highly hinted to be Cypher's quest, where if he presents the sword on his back to the Emperor the Primarch will return).

It seems likely that Angron will return during the campaign for Armageddon, along with the Blood Crusade of Khornate Daemons.

Yeah, I concur. With three primarchs out (including Mortarion), why would they stop at that? After Mort, a loyalist primarch will return and so on.

And if I had to guess, I'd say they will bring back Sanguinius.

Then there's the image on the inside of the cover of the 40k 8th ed rulebook that shows a figure very much looking like Sanguinius fighting Chaos!

Nice spot! In the Imperial Dungeon outside the throne room no less.

I truly believe the DA codex is being delayed in order to coincide with The Lion's release (much like the DG/Mortarion release soon).

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I truly believe the DA codex is being delayed in order to coincide with The Lion's release (much like the DG/Mortarion release soon).

This is my thinking. The rumors that say that the rest of the Space Marine chapters are just going to be 'wrapped up' by the end of the year are steering towards wrong in my mind. They're going to space them out with other things so they can give appropriate time for the new Primarchs to be released. My hope is that they stick with a Loyal/Chaos/Loyal/Chaos pattern as they've been doing so far, as that would mean that after the next Loyal one, we'd have a high chance of getting Daemon Angron or Fulgrim!

I do hope they release Ferrus Manus with a bionic head. haha Ferrus Caput! I agree with most of what you posted and it really opens up a lot of interesting possibilities with the background as well. here is my list of predictions with some wish listing on their form:

Loyalists:
Guilliman
Primarch Dreadnought Lion El'Jonson?
fully empowered Sanguinor?
Wolfen mutated Russ?

Traitor:
Magnus
Mortarion
Angron
Fulgrim

that gives each space marine codex and chaos marine dedicated legion a big guy for release

but what about the rumor that one of the loyalists will be traitor and one of the traitors turn loyal? maybe its hogwash but I could see a Wolfen Russ being treated as a mutant heretic by most of the imperium even if he's not necessarily chaos aligned, but the only traitor primarch i can remotely see declaring for the emperor even if he's not accepted and who is not already a daemon primarch is Alpharius/Omegon but i don't feel like they have the gravitas or purchase appeal to replace any of the 4 damon primarchs above.

Why is The Lion a dreadnought again? He's just sleeping inside the Rock.

Regardless of what happens, I just hope GW leaves the dead Primarchs dead. Manus, Sanguinius, Horus, Curze...they're dead. Please don't slaughter the fluff anymore than it already is.

I agree about the dead ones and was joking about Ferrus Manus but I do think the door has been cracked for Sanguinious to return in spirit as the Sanguinor. it also sorta fits with the loose blood angel / vampire thing they have going on and their Primarch being risen from the dead or at least his spirit in a new body is kinda cool and is essentially what the Sanguinor already is as far as I'm aware. I was just speculating about the lion dreadnought thing but it would at least give them an opportunity to release something other than big guy with big sword which is what Guilliman already is.

If they bring back Sanguinius then I think I will be done with this game. The whole point is that Sanguinius sacrificed himself and was totally and utterly destroyed by Horus.

Remove that and you remove the entire point of the sacrifice.

 Bottle wrote:

Then there's the image on the inside of the cover of the 40k 8th ed rulebook that shows a figure very much looking like Sanguinius fighting Chaos!

Nice spot! In the Imperial Dungeon outside the throne room no less.

If it is outside the throne room wouldn't that make that figure the Emperor and not Sanguinius. I just hope GW keeps with the alternating release of traitor/loyal primarchs.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If they bring back Sanguinius then I think I will be done with this game. The whole point is that Sanguinius sacrificed himself and was totally and utterly destroyed by Horus.

Remove that and you remove the entire point of the sacrifice.

I'm with this 100%!

I've been a BA player since the mid 90s "Angels of Death" codex dropped and I believe bringing back ol' Sangy
would be the worst mistake GW could make in regards to the 40k fluff/universe.

I'm not sure that they should bring back Sanguinious. He died so BigE could see the depths Horus had fallen to, leading to him obliterating the Traitor.

But I think if the Sanguinor was infused into a dread or something like that, it might work.

They should bring back the ones that aren't deader than dead, i.e. Russ/Vulkan/Lion etc.
Ferrus Manus with a cyborg head would be interesting but.....

Maybe for the daemon primarchs they should showcase at least one that isn't a mutated mess(mortarion).

Alpharius/Omegron would be cool bit not enuff XX fans out there (I'm 1)
I think Angron would be Cool as long as he's just a bigger more pi$$ed off one, like the perfect example of a really angry dude (like if Glenn Danzig was a primarch)

Sanguinius - I love BA to death and will probably start an army but please keep him dead. Maybe make the Sanguinor channel Sanguinius' power. Sanguinius returning is straight up necromancy and IMO would ruin the appeal of Blood Angels and possibly undermine his character.

Please release Sanguinius for 30k though.

Also, Horus is dead so it would be unfair for Sanguinius to return.

Wulfen Russ would be cool. Not sure about the Lion.

 Biohavok wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If they bring back Sanguinius then I think I will be done with this game. The whole point is that Sanguinius sacrificed himself and was totally and utterly destroyed by Horus.

Remove that and you remove the entire point of the sacrifice.

I'm with this 100%!

I've been a BA player since the mid 90s "Angels of Death" codex dropped and I believe bringing back ol' Sangy
would be the worst mistake GW could make in regards to the 40k fluff/universe.

Honestly, giving individual SM chapters their own codicies was a mistake. After that, bring on Sanguinius!

To be honest, the only reason I even suggest Sanguinius is because the Blood Angels have their own Codex. GW is notorious for ignoring the 'lesser' chapters (those without their own Codex or those not tied directly to a Chaos God).

To that regard, I really doubt we'll see anything for Imperial Fists, Iron Warriors, White Scars, Night Lords, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, or Black Legion.

Maybe we'll get a much more awesome Abaddon model in the future, since he desperately needs one (he's looking pretty tiny compared to the new Primaris) but this is also GW we're talking about. They know the numbers. They know how many Magnus the Red models they sold. They know how many Roboute Guilliman models that they're selling, and they'll know how many Mortarion models that they will sell. This is going to dictate their releases going into the next year with regards to these gigantic character models. Only if Magnus and Mortarion do REALLY WELL will they consider Angron and Fulgrim.

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Biohavok wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If they bring back Sanguinius then I think I will be done with this game. The whole point is that Sanguinius sacrificed himself and was totally and utterly destroyed by Horus.

Remove that and you remove the entire point of the sacrifice.

I'm with this 100%!

I've been a BA player since the mid 90s "Angels of Death" codex dropped and I believe bringing back ol' Sangy
would be the worst mistake GW could make in regards to the 40k fluff/universe.

Honestly, giving individual SM chapters their own codicies was a mistake. After that, bring on Sanguinius!

How do you rate individual Chapter codices a mistake? They have always been popular and add choice/flavour to the game.

I think part of the fun now they are obviously open to bringing back or making models of the Primarch's is the anticipation and speculation on how and when they will do it! Sanguinius I agree should remain dead although the soul in another form would be plausible (just) even considering the fluff from the early era of GW. I also have a suspicion that in regards to the traitor to loyalist and vice versa it could well be the Lion who is turncoat since the 'fallen' were actually loyalists who thought Lion was doing the wrong thing by the Emperor and continued to fight for what BigE believed in, and I think Alpharius could quite easily be a wonderful loyalist and the only one that would be believable it would also give great scope to the twisted threads of story and lay foundations for some very Tzeetchian long game plots!

I hope Vulkan is the large human in baroque armour that the Necron Lord has in his collection, hence he'll be back!

Russ will be back and he'll be angry as hell out of the warp, depending on how they play the time spent in there, it could be hours or years after the heresy or it could have flowed thousands of years and make him slightly more barbaric!

As for Rogal Dorn i'm conflicted, having been into 40K since I was 14 (a long time ago) the original fluff and even in some novels had the Fists in possession on his entire skeleton and his hands were kept separate as sacred relics, they used to scrape the waxy residue from his bones and drink it in a ritual brew, where now i've read that ominous 'They only found one of Rogal Dorn's FISTS' on the battlefield, which is a bit silly but means he could come back with a bionic hand.

I think Primarch's that are dead in 40k timeline should stay dead. I think this is a great opportunity for GW to advance the lore and make new Primarch's for those dead. This way they get their fun toys, it doesn't break the lore, it's an interesting story of trying to find just who would be worthy of becoming a successor Primarch, and it doesn't invalidate the sacrifices and lore of those lost. Think of what Sanguinus successor would say and think if he knew he had to live up the legacy of his predeccesor. it would be a great story to see him dealing with those emotions and coming into his own. You also then get the whole inexperienced Primarch angle going on so they can contrast with the older more grim ones.

You guys are thinking way too small.

First the Primarchs will come back with even Sanguinius Jesusing himself back to life...

Then Horus will magically reform in the warp...

Then the Emperor will wake up...

Then 40k will be back in the Horus Heresy.

The biggest bummer for future releases for me is that clearly the big 4 on both sides will get a primarch.
Gulliman
Lion
Sangunor..inous?
Russ
Angron
Fulgrim
Mort
Mag

But all the other codex chapters get left in the dust. And the other big legions of Chaos. (Imperial fists and Word Bearers player here.)

Great releases none the less! I love the big boys coming back to town. Cant Wait to see the Rogal Dorn Model.

Sanguinius is one of the only primarchs actually confirmed dead. I sincerely doubt they'd ever bring him back. Even Guilliman was only in stasis, with the occasional bit of fluff saying his wounds were slowly healing.

I could see GW eventually bringing out primarchs for the lesser ones. at least where it makes sense. I think Vulkan and Lorgar would be pretty popular ones.

BrianDavion wrote:
I could see GW eventually bringing out primarchs for the lesser ones. at least where it makes sense. I think Vulkan and Lorgar would be pretty popular ones.

I would buy Vulkan in a heartbeat

Emissary wrote:
Quick side note, Rogal Dorn by forgeworld is done and should be out soon. They're currently working on Alpharius.

They should never do an alpharius model because there already is one, it's your standard alpha legion marine model.

In terms of codex and Primarch releases, I'd like to direct the audience to the Age of Sigmar release schedule.

For the most part, it's linked to the evolving narrative. So Alarielle was released when she assumed her War Aspect in the background. Kharadron Overlords descended from the skies following Sigmar's successes in the Realmgate Wars - after all, there's new cities to trade with....

I'm expecting much the same of 40k, and it's what we've started to see already. Deathguard aren't just coming out on the shelves, but becoming central to the narrative for now - it's their show for the time being.

I suspect we will see The Lion soon, if only because it seems The Changeling went an let Luther out of his cell. If that doesn't get his best bud up and out of bed, nothing will!

As much as I want the the model, I hope to god they don't bring back Sanguinius.

Bringing back Vulkan or the Lion makes the most sense, Corax and Khan wouldn't be too outrageous either. Dorn is almost definitely dead and I don't think they'll be in a hurry to bring back Russ as after his parting quote, it would be heralding the end.