Chronicle X Kickstarter by Archon Studios

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**highlord tamburlaine**

Dark Severance wrote:
We now have our own Unicast answer that will work out much better.

[curiosity intensifies]

**Dark Severance**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Dark Severance wrote:
We now have our own Unicast answer that will work out much better.

[curiosity intensifies]

We are still doing our testing, once we have more information we will release it. Single piece miniatures, both complex and simple without bases, is working out quite well. We've been testing with a variety of poses and designs. We could do them with bases but it doesn't add any real benefit to the miniature and isn't necessary. We have also been comparing with multi-piece miniatures, allowing us to get create them faster and higher quality. Currently, we are doing durability, painting, and strength testing. When that is complete we'll be doing a full cost analysis. Then afterward probably send out some to get reviewed and painted with comparisons. Providing scheduling keeps up, we'll have information in a month or two but priority is on finishing our own Kickstarter and then we'll sink into more. So far we've just been doing testing in between Kickstarter stuff to not detract from it.

**PsychoticStorm**

Well if you do them with bases, you may have a market from small boardgame publishers.

Worth considering it.

**ced1106**

fresus wrote:
I understand from the above posts that they had issues with the company before. Can someone elaborate? And didn't KS get involved at some point?

AFAIK, KS didn't get involved. Certainly don't expect them to help you in any project on their platform.

Dakka: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/556916.page
Beasts of War: http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/sci-fi-gamer-town-square/forum/topic/calling-avp-kickstarter-backers/
BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1581232/what-prodos
Prodos: http://prodosgames.com/community/alien-vs-predator/i-still-havent-received-my-pledge

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dark Severance wrote:
That is the response that quite a few miniatures status was. They sculpted them based on the concept art, created them and then Fox didn't approve them or denied them. The sculpts then get recycled for other things since they aren't an officially licensed piece it was created from. This, unfortunately, tends to happen with things that are "new" and not part of the canon. There are multiple reasons that happen in licensing agreements like this. I am not saying that is what happened, that is what they stated. I have experience from dealing with that very thing though with other projects, unfortunately.

Thanks to AvP, any project with a major license (or third-party investor, not that you can easily find out that information) is a yellow flag for me. Wasn't sure about Conan, but it seemed that the estate was pretty good with the license, unlike the Dune boardgame.

**RiTides**

For what it's worth, I heavily backed AvP but sold my pledge afterwards. I checked with the buyer and they did get their miniatures, although had to do a few swaps.

I also split a pledge backing Archon's LOAD board game, and it delivered well.

I think the downside of only discussing AvP is that any discussion of what they're currently doing (for better or worse) can't really happen on Dakka. An example is unicast, and the results of it and how it compares to other casting methods, if it will get more widespread use, etc. I'm very interested in your alternative, Dark Severance, but that probably deserves its own thread!

**CURNOW**

I disagree .
I think it has to be discussed
There are minis that I gave them money for 4yrs ago that tey haven't even started producing yet ...but they have time and will power to produce whole new ranges .

Bunch of con artists and anyone looking at their new products should know that .

**RiTides**

Note that I didn't say it shouldn't be discussed - just that there's a downside to it.

We had similar happen with Raging Heroes - the end result being that their current work doesn't get discussed on Dakka, but elsewhere instead, because of the strong criticism (and, to be honest, the memes

) that were posted whenever someone tried to discuss their stuff here.

Prodos, if anyone, certainly did a lot to deserve blackballing... but I just think it's worth pointing out that that is, effectively, what the result has been here - for better or worse!

**Necros**

It's kind of a shame.. they have some talented people working for them and their new minis are great. I got the original LOAD campaign and I really love the minis. I just wish they would finish AVP. I get that there's IP issues and delays, but even years later if they just finish that they will earn back a lot more trust from people and I bet their new campaigns would go even better. But, even still, it's always gonna be a dark cloud they will have to deal with forever even if they were to magically finish AVP tomorrow.

I was planning to work with them since their unicast minis were so great, but kinda glad I got out when I did. Luckily not a ton of drama to deal with in my case and it was easy enough to recover and switch to metal, but still. I don't hate them for it, just wasn't meant to be. I'm hoping they will be able to take some of the cash they are bringing in from these new campaigns and put it toward finishing AVP. That game should be their top priority.

**warboss**

Fortunately for those types of companies, the power to remedy the situation of their own making is also usually under their control. The first step is to stop lying/obfuscating and not treat your customers like trash ASAP. The longer they do that, the more irreversible the damage to their reputation becomes.

**ced1106**

warboss wrote:
The first step is to stop lying/obfuscating and not treat your customers like trash ASAP.

Yeah, that. Part of the problem is their behavior towards customers. They at least posted on BoW a communication, so that's a start.

As for AvP, I dunno if licensing issues will let Prodos cast the last miniatures, but Prodos could certainly issue a refund. They certainly had enough money to spend on launching Space Crusade -- whose cancellation further suggests Prodos / Archon's lack of ability to manage projects (and whose no doubt intentional use of a name similar to a previously released boardgame from Games Workshop further shows their lack of respect for other's IP.)

RE-LOAD stretch goals will be shipped as wave 2. Worst case scenario is that Prodos / Archon has run out of money on RE-LOAD and is using Chronicle X funds to make RE-LOAD stretch goal miniatures (Prodos used AvP funds for their Warzone project), or will delay sending backers RE-LOAD stretch goal miniatures (or not at all, like AvP).

**warboss**

ced1106 wrote:
warboss wrote:
The first step is to stop lying/obfuscating and not treat your customers like trash ASAP.

Yeah, that. Part of the problem is their behavior towards customers. They at least posted on BoW a communication, so that's a start.

As for AvP, I dunno if licensing issues will let Prodos cast the last miniatures, but Prodos could certainly issue a refund.

Licensing issues didn't stop Prodos from mailing out rewards to backers instead of prioritizing FOR YEARS shipments to stores while they at the same time punished those who brought it up by ignoring them at best or booting/blocking them from supposed avenues of communication at worst. You haven't been arguing against that but I felt it was worth re-emphasizing. It's not that disgruntled customers blame them for Fox's actions but rather that Prodos chose to further compound those issues by voluntarily further deprioritizing their most loyal customers repeatedly. As for posting it specifically on BOW, they couldn't have chosen a more conducive (paid advertiser friendly) place to do it. Warren has repeatedly excused Jarek every time they have paid them to plug a new KS campaign.

**Theophony**

You know they can hide, change names, or fix the problems. Look at Puppetwars. They disappeared from Dakka for a while after getting a bunch of negative press here, but they fixed their issues and worked to make it right for some of the more vocal. Now they are here constantly and showing off new stuff and the people who did have a problem are back ordering from them and generally happy. There’s a chance for proxies too, but they need to get their stuff straight quick, because they have hit a level of toxicity that I haven’t seen before.

**ced1106**

Posted by Biggus on BoW: http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/sci-fi-gamer-town-square/forum/topic/calling-avp-kickstarter-backers/?topic_page=67&num=15

Today, the first day of business since the New Year break, the UK register of businesses – Companies House – documented an apparent change of ownership of ALL shares in Prodos. They were previously held by Prodos directors, with Jarek (@Probus) holding 51%, 24.5% held by Michal Pawlaczyk, and a further 24.5% (presumably originally Mark Rapson’s minority share, long since sold back) held in-house by Prodos Games. Now, as of today, less than 72 hours after Jarek told us that there would be no avoiding responsibility, they are all listed as being held by FOS Investment Group whoever or whatever that is.

Additionally, Jarek has claimed to be nothing more than an employee of Archon, and that the two companies are not otherwise linked. On the first count, the Polish business register KRS would disagree. Jarek is listed as the Chairman of the Board and the sole representative of the company.

http://www.krs-online.com.pl/archon-sp-z-o-o-krs-1325062.html

and in October of 2017, Prodos Games was removed as the sole owner of the 99 shares in Archon, and replaced by joint ownership between Jarek and Michal.

http://www.krs-online.com.pl/msig-5337-370635.html

(if you care to drill back, it was previously owned by member of their respective families (judging by the names) until signed over to Prodos Games.

Technically of course, they are different companies, what with one being owned and registered in the UK and the other in Poland, but for all intents and purposes, they are both owned by Jarek as the majority shareholder (or they were until the change made to Prodos ownership today).

**CURNOW**

Yep not news but good to get it confirmed .

Its not ip issues that are shopping the completion of avp its jarek issues . Nothing but him is shopping him from producing the last models including the multipart marines or from refunding people

**warboss**

Dark Severance wrote:
There is some truth in that. The issue is that only 250 have outstanding orders or parts of orders. That is only 10% of the backers who didn't receive their stuff and in most things that is still considered an "A". That isn't an excuse but an accurate representation of retail market. It is why when some product reviewed marked as 2 or 3 stars still continue to get orders. This isn't related just to this market or this product but is representative of how sales in general happen.

With Fox no longer owning things, it will be interesting to see if it gets renewed and if other changes happen. I guess it is one way to finally see if the roadblocks have truly been a "Fox approval" issue or not.

I'm not sure where you got the numbers above that only 250 pledges (out of 2091 according to Kicktraq) have outstanding orders or parts of orders but it seems your source gave you grossly distorted information. From Prodos' own post apparently to backers reposted in the AVP thread:

AVP backer parcels are still being sent out.

According to the data on our pledge manager we have:
459 backers have already received their full pledge.
1391 backers are waiting for their last shipment: these are mainly elements like alternative heads or multipose marines.
337 are still waiting for 2nd or 3rd shipping,
and we have a group of more than 100 backers who have not yet completed the pledge manager or we’re missing their full shipping data.

Only 20% of backers have gotten their full pledges from this 2013 kickstarter and who knows how many of those completion were because of exasperated fans who swapped out early to get anything for their long delayed pledges instead of what they actually pledged for in addition to others who made special plans above and beyond what was agreed upon to pick up whatever they could on hand at conventions for the same reason. Three quarters of backers (over 1700) who completed their pledge manager (likely MULTIPLE TIMES given Prodos' habit of resetting locked pledges and then blaming backers for the "delay") are still awaiting some or all of their pledge rewards, not 250. I hope for both backers and the company's sake that they finally get this project behind them.

**ced1106**

Moar info via Beasts (and same source as warboss) : http://special-delivery.pl/p/s3s3lziu47/84knwge4eo/

In 2017, many changes took place in Prodos, starting with new management, and a new CEO. There has also been a slight change of strategic direction for Prodos who are now aimed at practical special effects for the film industry, mainly utilizing silicone products. This will not affect the AVP KS and management understand the need to complete this KS as soon as possible. A separate company is now working exclusively on boardgames.

Following a rocky 2017, the financial liquidity of Prodos has improved and the funds are there for the completion of AvP. Thanks to the contacts and network of the new owners, we have also managed to speed up the approval process with FOX.

Post doesn't say who the new management or shareholders are.

**highlord tamburlaine**

If it means they can finally move forward and put everything related to AVP to rest, it's probably for the best.

**Voss**

. There has also been a slight change of strategic direction for Prodos who are now aimed at practical special effects for the film industry ...
. A separate company is now working exclusively on boardgames.

I think their concept of the word 'slight' is a little confused. Transitioning out of TT minis games to film special effects is... pretty big. So is spinning off a board game company.

**kendoka**

Got a package from Prodos today with *everything* from my massive AvP KS pledge. Finally!

A classy move from the new management, erasing all my previous negative vibes regarding Prodos and their products. Past sins are forgiven.

I wish Prodos the best of luck in the future - and might even buy some more stuff from them (such as the excellent Cronicle X-Grays)...

**Nostromodamus**

Getting what you paid for negates how they treated people like gak for years?

**DarkTraveler777**

Nostromodamus wrote:
Getting what you paid for negates how they treated people like gak for years?

Had the same question.

Really glad kendoka got the pledge they have been waiting on, but Prodos' behavior has been atrocious regarding this KS. And yeah, that isn't the new management's fault, but I'd still be wary of dealing with Prodos until they have years of positive customer service encounters under their belt. To each their own, though!

**kendoka**

Nostromodamus wrote:
Getting what you paid for negates how they treated people like gak for years?

Well, as I see it, the old management (which I still hold a grudge against) has been replaced - and I have no reason to dislike "New Prodos".
This said, I have been burnt by the AvP KS (and several different Kickstarters from other companies) and am reluctant to back new ones.

**CptJake**

Aeneades wrote:
warboss wrote:

Oh, and for anyone who thinks that Prodos/Archon are actually sorry about what they pulled and continue to pull with AVP, they're instead thumbing their noses at AVP backers with the $70k cigar smoking bionic arm buzz cut muscleman stretch goal which is basically a parody of Dutch Schaefer, Arnold's character, from the AVP arcade game and kickstarter.

Spoiler:

It was a stretch goal that iirc was funded, a mini was created,

http://bloodofkittens.com/wargaminghub/2014/05/03/aliens-vs-predator-kickstarter-prodos-visit-titan/

and that backers never got nor is available on their webstore (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that backer part since there is alot of variability depending on the luck of the draw as to what each backer got or didn't get). Stay classy, Prodos/Archon...

Not defending Produs but I believe I read somewhere that there was a licensing issue with producing models based on characters from the game as they believed it was covered by the licence but wasn’t.

So we can expect refunds for what they promised, we paid for, and now they cannot deliver?

**CURNOW**

Thing is it isn't "new management" its the same people that have been running the #&@$ show for the last 5yrs but with a new name answering emails.