Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 skchsan wrote:
Army painter primers are far superior product for me than citadel brand.

Citadel brands don't allow thinned out paints to stick on to the surface as well as Army painter - I feel like it's engineered in a way that you use up paint faster.

To me, citadel sprays felt more of actual spray paint than a primer.

As someone who paints almost exclusively with washes and and milk-thin glazes over a two-tone zenithal undercoat - hokum, bunkum, stuff & nonsense. GW's rattlecans take thinned paint as well as any other brand I've tried. You can have your preference, but don't spread misinformation around because you feel the need to justify it.

For where I have to get them, the price of Army Painter and GW sprays are roughly the same, but GW seem more consistent in quality, so I go with them.

 skchsan wrote:
Army painter primers are far superior product for me than citadel brand.

Citadel brands don't allow thinned out paints to stick on to the surface as well as Army painter - I feel like it's engineered in a way that you use up paint faster.

To me, citadel sprays felt more of actual spray paint than a primer.

Army Painter's Angel Green comes out in large globs though. Far inferior to the Citadel product.

I say paint with what you like. If GW cans have done you well and you don’t mind the price, have at it! I mostly use the Krylon Matt Camoflage line, due to having issue with GW discontinuing their old coloured primers years ago which put me in a bad spot painting wise, and made me switch.

That said, I have bought and enjoy their new Mephiston Red Spray and have basecoated a tonne of my 30k models with it (after priming them black of course).

 Yodhrin wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Army painter primers are far superior product for me than citadel brand.

Citadel brands don't allow thinned out paints to stick on to the surface as well as Army painter - I feel like it's engineered in a way that you use up paint faster.

To me, citadel sprays felt more of actual spray paint than a primer.

As someone who paints almost exclusively with washes and and milk-thin glazes over a two-tone zenithal undercoat - hokum, bunkum, stuff & nonsense. GW's rattlecans take thinned paint as well as any other brand I've tried. You can have your preference, but don't spread misinformation around because you feel the need to justify it.

Woah. You must be from citadel PR to be that offended by that comment.

I like to prime my models with light colors, then do a wash of watered down paint (essentially ink wash at this point). When I do this to a citadel primer, the wash gets repelled off the surface as if there's a layer of oil - kind of like when you try to apply watered down paint on non-primed surface.

I bought this as a "step up" from the old "Armory" brand with the crappy wrapper, before i moved to army painter - but it didn't produce the kind of surface I want when I prime.

I am entitled to my opinions and predilection. Please refrain from telling me I feel the need to justify myself.

*edit - citadel's old line was better imo - the one with fantasy squig logo on it

 skchsan wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Army painter primers are far superior product for me than citadel brand.

Citadel brands don't allow thinned out paints to stick on to the surface as well as Army painter - I feel like it's engineered in a way that you use up paint faster.

To me, citadel sprays felt more of actual spray paint than a primer.

As someone who paints almost exclusively with washes and and milk-thin glazes over a two-tone zenithal undercoat - hokum, bunkum, stuff & nonsense. GW's rattlecans take thinned paint as well as any other brand I've tried. You can have your preference, but don't spread misinformation around because you feel the need to justify it.

Woah. You must be from citadel PR to be that offended by that comment.

I like to prime my models with light colors, then do a wash of watered down paint (essentially ink wash at this point). When I do this to a citadel primer, the wash gets repelled off the surface as if there's a layer of oil - kind of like when you try to apply watered down paint on non-primed surface.

I bought this as a "step up" from the old "Armory" brand with the crappy wrapper, before i moved to army painter - but it didn't produce the kind of surface I want when I prime.

I am entitled to my opinions and predilection. Please refrain from telling me I feel the need to justify myself.

*edit - citadel's old line was better imo - the one with fantasy squig logo on it

If you took even a cursory look at my post history, you would begin to grasp how utterly hilarious that attempted putdown is.

What you are claiming as a characteristic of Citadel paints is factually not the case, and you forfeited any entitlement to benefit of the doubt when you followed up your initial claim with silly conspiracy nonsense. My entire method of painting models is dependent on using washes to stain the raised surfaces while shading the recesses, if your claims were true I would be literally unable to paint models. Maybe you got a bad can of paint, but to claim the whole line is fundamentally flawed and moreover that the flaw is deliberate? Nah chief, you don't get to play the martyr after that.

Ok. You're right and I'm wrong. Who am I to say what's been working better for me consistently for the latter half of +20 years of painting and what hasn't, am I right? I have no bearing on what your experiences were and what your preference is.

'm happy to hear that it's been working for you. I do just fine not spending $20+ dollars on a can of spray.

Considering the cost of miniatures, $20 isn't much. That's, what, four fewer miniatures in the queue? (:

Since I mostly paint generic fantasy bad guy miniatures, I use Krylon Camouflage brown, but it's a dark brown. So I sometimes will use the lighter brown Army Painter, which is great for wooden terrain (eg. treasure chests), and is still a good undercoat.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Army painter primers are far superior product for me than citadel brand.

Citadel brands don't allow thinned out paints to stick on to the surface as well as Army painter - I feel like it's engineered in a way that you use up paint faster.

To me, citadel sprays felt more of actual spray paint than a primer.

As someone who paints almost exclusively with washes and and milk-thin glazes over a two-tone zenithal undercoat - hokum, bunkum, stuff & nonsense. GW's rattlecans take thinned paint as well as any other brand I've tried. You can have your preference, but don't spread misinformation around because you feel the need to justify it.

Woah. You must be from citadel PR to be that offended by that comment.

I like to prime my models with light colors, then do a wash of watered down paint (essentially ink wash at this point). When I do this to a citadel primer, the wash gets repelled off the surface as if there's a layer of oil - kind of like when you try to apply watered down paint on non-primed surface.

I bought this as a "step up" from the old "Armory" brand with the crappy wrapper, before i moved to army painter - but it didn't produce the kind of surface I want when I prime.

I am entitled to my opinions and predilection. Please refrain from telling me I feel the need to justify myself.

*edit - citadel's old line was better imo - the one with fantasy squig logo on it

If you took even a cursory look at my post history, you would begin to grasp how utterly hilarious that attempted putdown is.

What you are claiming as a characteristic of Citadel paints is factually not the case, and you forfeited any entitlement to benefit of the doubt when you followed up your initial claim with silly conspiracy nonsense. My entire method of painting models is dependent on using washes to stain the raised surfaces while shading the recesses, if your claims were true I would be literally unable to paint models. Maybe you got a bad can of paint, but to claim the whole line is fundamentally flawed and moreover that the flaw is deliberate? Nah chief, you don't get to play the martyr after that.

I use the same technique and have used Citideal White, PP White, and Army Painter White - all with Bel-tien green shade. The difference between Citadel and the others is pretty stark. While PP and Army painter are just slightly different (edge to PP, probably due to its coverage more than anything else), citadel is like slamming a non-thinned layer paint on the model. It holds well and takes paint just as easily as the others, but man it comes on thick for a 'primer'. There's a noticeable obliteration of the small details with the Citadel primed figures. It convinced me to strike it off my list and toss the can after I did the compare. Not so much that I'm going to strip the paint, but enough that I'm not going to pay more for an inferior product.

At this point I'm using Army Painter colored primers (for vehicles), PP White primer (for everything else), PP Layer Paints (testing army painter now that I've switched to a wet pallet), and Citadel shades (They are damn good for a prethinned shade)

I've tried both Army Painter and GW black sprays. The army painter one was too glossy and smooth, even in optimal spraying situations and after rattling the can for a good 4-5 minutes. The GW one has a much more matte finish to it, which I prefer. Only case I had an issue with a GW can was when spraying some mechanicus standard rattlecan, but probably was because it has the same color as their plastic, so I couldn't see how much I was putting on.

I only bought one can of GW Corax White spray, and it was rather thick for my liking. I may have just gotten a dud, but you can't beat $4 cans of Krylon that have the same effect. I don't hate on GW's product, I just can't bring myself to pay for it again.

Which krylon do you get in white?

 Desubot wrote:
Which krylon do you get in white?

I don't, I get black. Probably should have mentioned that. Rustoleum makes both white and black primers as well, and I have a can of that in white floating around somewhere too.

K because i do use rustoleum black from autozone. and their grey

The white is the hardest one for me as often times it only comes in gloss or super thick.

its why i like corax white. the off white is also useful so i can do final highlights in normal white.

 Desubot wrote:
K because i do use rustoleum black from autozone. and their grey

The white is the hardest one for me as often times it only comes in gloss or super thick.

its why i like corax white. the off white is also useful so i can do final highlights in normal white.

If you go to a paint store like kellymoore rodda etc... That carry rustoleum rattlecans they should have the white black and rusty red/brown primers available. All 3 are pretty popular products. The primers will have a matte cap and will say they are primer.

I buy rustoleum flat black spray. 4 bucks a can stateside and I always pick up a few every time I go down. I never run out of spray!

I'm with you bro.

I've tried Army Painter, auto primer, basic art shop spray primer and I'm adamant about the quality of their spray primers: the way it covers the model, the way it sprays and the way it smells. Yeah.

 Adam Spielmann wrote:
I've tried both Army Painter and GW black sprays. The army painter one was too glossy and smooth, even in optimal spraying situations and after rattling the can for a good 4-5 minutes. The GW one has a much more matte finish to it, which I prefer. Only case I had an issue with a GW can was when spraying some mechanicus standard rattlecan, but probably was because it has the same color as their plastic, so I couldn't see how much I was putting on.

I noticed that too early on when I switched to army painter. The coverage seems noticiblely weaker, making you want to spray more than needed - this is when you start to get build up and that glossy finish. I typically go for about 80~90% coverage which is sufficient for the model to start taking up paint as well as the full coverage spray from other cans. Here, less is more.

In my experience, army painter sprays resulted in airbrush-like finish, while other cans can end up with eggshell texture quickly.

We need an article with a hit list a gak list and user review comments.

I have bought some crappy sprays in my time. Humbrol acrylics, I am looking at you; and it helps if Dakka can pool knowledge on one handy page to avoid issues and share advice.

 Orlanth wrote:
We need an article with a hit list a gak list and user review comments.

I have bought some crappy sprays in my time. Humbrol acrylics, I am looking at you; and it helps if Dakka can pool knowledge on one handy page to avoid issues and share advice.

One problem with sprays can be user error which makes me suspicious of user reviews. Not all cans spray the same and sometimes people just use them wrong. For example doing slow steady passes with a hi flow can which is actually designed for fast passes then complaining about flooded detail, or spraying too far away with a can designed to be sprayed close and then complaining about graining, or thinking one primer is great because they don't notice the lost detail or poor adhesion or whatever.

It's an area where you really need experienced and knowledgable people reviewing the products.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
We need an article with a hit list a gak list and user review comments.

I have bought some crappy sprays in my time. Humbrol acrylics, I am looking at you; and it helps if Dakka can pool knowledge on one handy page to avoid issues and share advice.

One problem with sprays can be user error which makes me suspicious of user reviews. Not all cans spray the same and sometimes people just use them wrong. For example doing slow steady passes with a hi flow can which is actually designed for fast passes then complaining about flooded detail, or spraying too far away with a can designed to be sprayed close and then complaining about graining, or thinking one primer is great because they don't notice the lost detail or poor adhesion or whatever.

It's an area where you really need experienced and knowledgable people reviewing the products.

Agreed. Rattlecans have a lot of stipulations to their use. Just having the wrong temperature or humidity can cause all kind of problems. The angle of the can. Do I trust the internet to not feth that up? Nope!

KTG17 wrote:

 Guildenstern wrote:
My only quibble with GW rattlecans is my environs sucks for that sort of spraying, I've found to my annoyance. I get a few days a year and that's it really. Otherwise the high humidity is just too much for that sort of spraying. (Even tried sticking it out a window and taking it back inside really fast, as a friend mentioned, nope)

Just out of curiosity, where do you live? I am in Florida and it is humid here. How they turn our is all I know, so not sure how the paint actually looks in a non-humid environment.

.

yup just up north of you a bit in GA

humidity is the worst most of the year

Really am liking my Stylrenz primers and airbrush now though for small jobs I still use my Vallejo brushon

I experimented with Army Painter's spray, and came to the conclusion that it and the GW basecoating sprays are actually quite different.

To put it simply, the GW spray is thinner. It requires far more of it to get the same level of thickness as Army Painters equivalent. But the thing is, you don't always want thick basecoating. Especially when doing it to fine detail resin models, it obscures them. Fills in the gaps a little too much. Whereas being much thinner, the GW spray works far better.

The flip side is that if I'm doing a tank or a chunky plastic model, I get far more bang for my buck from army painter. So I buy both and use the right tool for the job. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

I use Hycote or Halford's auto-primers. Generally about half the price of 'wargaming' primers, come in a huge range of colours (though it's primarily grey and black for me) and give a great coat.

I use it out of convenience.

Being lucky enough to have a GW store a 20 or so minute walk away, I can replace the cans when I need to with relative ease.

I have used others (Halfords), but habit is habit. Plus, outside of other specific Wargaming brands, I know GW’s sprays will do the job I bought them to do with consistency.

Same goes with GW’s paint pots. They’re conveniently available, and I know they’ll do the job. Others may last longer and/or be cheaper. But picking them up means cross referencing the colours across the brands, and making a trip to Darksphere to pick them up.

Like most GW stuff it's an acceptable product albeit a bit overpriced, I've purchased the Black and White cans from my local GW as most of the online retailers insist on Courier post for rattle cans (a legal thing I think) so cheaper options end up netting for around the same, although for large amounts of terrain Poundshop cans and dirt cheap acrylic tubes goes a long way

I use Badger Stynylrez for all my undercoating.

Compared to GW Chaos Black, it's a very thin coat and leaves the details very crisp on whatever I apply it to. I've also noticed it's a very hard coat. I used to have problems with CB where the primer would wear off corners, but that doesn't happen anymore.

 skchsan wrote:
To me, citadel sprays felt more of actual spray paint than a primer.

You are 100% correct - they aren't primers and don't claim to be.

There really is no contest when compared to a quality shrinking primer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:
But the thing is, you don't always want thick basecoating. Especially when doing it to fine detail resin models, it obscures them. Fills in the gaps a little too much. Whereas being much thinner, the GW spray works far better.

Which is exactly why good primers shrink.

Don't all paints shrink as the base evaporates off? I guess maybe epoxies might not.

Either way when I was priming with citadel sprays I just didn't apply huge amounts of it and it never got overly thick.

Different sprays have different flow rates and you have to learn how fast you need to move your hand and how close to hold the can to the model to stop from getting an overly thick coat. I remember reading once a review of Tamiya sprays and someone said it was clogging detail, but it was actually user error because they weren't accounting for the high flow rate of Tamiya sprays and just applying way too much (when you apply them right they're actually really good at getting high density colour with a thin coat).

Unless you're accidentally using a putty or filler primer in which case good luck because those things are actually designed to go on thick.

Water based do shrink. Others mostly don't.