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pm713 wrote:
What would you call plot armour then?

...I'd call it plot armor? I was clarifying that fluff explanations aren't included within the category, nothing about that undermines the basic concept. Unless your interpretation was that plot armor referred exclusively to fluff explanations for surviving death.

Edit: Ah, I do remember a specific instance. Dante when I heard about him beating the Swarmlord in close combat. The whole bit about the Blood Angels saved by ultrasmurf intervention was already eye-rolling enough that it felt like some sort of plot-overcompensation for the BA to save face.

So what qualifies something as plot armour then? I'd say it's fair to say someone written to be unkillable counts as plot armour but you disagree.

pm713 wrote:
So what qualifies something as plot armour then? I'd say it's fair to say someone written to be unkillable counts as plot armour but you disagree.

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse at this point. It's not what I agree or disagree with, it's the definition of what it is. If someone says that apples vary in color from red to yellow to green to blue and I say that no, apples can't be blue that isn't disagreement with an interpretation it's correcting an inaccuracy. At any rate: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor

No it just sounded like you were talking rubbish instead of explaining what you meant well.

pm713 wrote:
No it just sounded like you were talking rubbish instead of explaining what you meant well.

No, it didn't.

Rowboat. 10k years in stasis with a slashed throat couldn't kill the Spiritual Liege.

 BBAP wrote:
Rowboat. 10k years in stasis with a slashed throat couldn't kill the Spiritual Liege.

Sorry - already threw out the Primarchs, the Emperor, Kaldor Draigo and Cato Sicarius because... well.. yeah of course ;-)

Tbf on that specific point rowboat did die, which was crucial so fancy eldar chick could rez him. She had raise dead prepared but not cure diseasd, so I'm sure you understand the issue.

pm713 wrote:
"Butted heads" meaning the Sisters were invading them. The ones in the wrong there are the Ecclesiarchy. I assume the spitting references the Emperor's Gift story which involved Grey Knights planning to assassinate their own leader because he was that incompetent. The Grandmaster was killed after a lot of the Grey Knights killing Space Wolves and their crews willy nilly and a complete betrayal.
When did the Guard attack Fenris? When they were a bunch of rebels attacking the Fang?

The guard reference might be the forces of Bucharis? He basically took control of all of fenris while the wolves hid in the fang. For three years. Three whole years of shooting at the fang and getting nowhere, and then a bunch of battle barges emerge from the warp catching everyone by surprise and basically wipe them out in the initial attack.

The sisters were ordered to fenris in response to the wolves blowing away a ship full of pushy missionaries who had heard the wolves were worshipping false gods (the wolf spirits, etc). After three weeks the ecclesiarchy just decided they didn't care and went home.

As for the months of shame...
Inquisitor: "Stop smuggling people out of the chaos tainted quarantine zone"
Grimnar: "No"
Inquisitor: "Stop smuggling people out of the chaos tainted quarantine zone"
Grimnar: "No"
(ships shoot up space wolf ships smuggling people out of the chaos tainted quarantine zone)
Grimnar: "I surrender. Shame on you for your underhanded attack. Who ordered it?"
Grand Master Joros: "I did"
Grimnar: "Surprise suckers!" (kills the grandmaster and teleports off into the distance to start an open war against the inquisition)

Literally Eldrad and Rowboat Girlyman.

They LITERALLY PLOT REVERSED their deaths.

A.T. wrote:

pm713 wrote:
"Butted heads" meaning the Sisters were invading them. The ones in the wrong there are the Ecclesiarchy. I assume the spitting references the Emperor's Gift story which involved Grey Knights planning to assassinate their own leader because he was that incompetent. The Grandmaster was killed after a lot of the Grey Knights killing Space Wolves and their crews willy nilly and a complete betrayal.
When did the Guard attack Fenris? When they were a bunch of rebels attacking the Fang?

The guard reference might be the forces of Bucharis? He basically took control of all of fenris while the wolves hid in the fang. For three years. Three whole years of shooting at the fang and getting nowhere, and then a bunch of battle barges emerge from the warp catching everyone by surprise and basically wipe them out in the initial attack.

The sisters were ordered to fenris in response to the wolves blowing away a ship full of pushy missionaries who had heard the wolves were worshipping false gods (the wolf spirits, etc). After three weeks the ecclesiarchy just decided they didn't care and went home.

As for the months of shame...
Inquisitor: "Stop smuggling people out of the chaos tainted quarantine zone"
Grimnar: "No"
Inquisitor: "Stop smuggling people out of the chaos tainted quarantine zone"
Grimnar: "No"
(ships shoot up space wolf ships smuggling people out of the chaos tainted quarantine zone)
Grimnar: "I surrender. Shame on you for your underhanded attack. Who ordered it?"
Grand Master Joros: "I did"
Grimnar: "Surprise suckers!" (kills the grandmaster and teleports off into the distance to start an open war against the inquisition)

They were blown up when after being refused entry they tried breaking in.

That's pretty much a meme at this point.

The reality is the Space Wolves intentionally kept all the fighting away from the cities so they weren't corrupted, made this clear and then started saving people when the dumb Inquisitor in charge ignored them. Then the Inquisition leader started chasing them all over to the point where the Grey Knights started planning an assassination.

The whole kill anyone near Chaos thing is stupid and non canon anyway. Did Cadia kill every inhabitant every day and ship new ones in? No. Did they exterminate planets near any other Warp Storm? No.

pm713 wrote:
The whole kill anyone near Chaos thing is stupid and non canon anyway.

I take it you've never seen the original grey knight apocalypse formation (aka the worst formation ever). It's not as prominent since the GK went from being the shrouded daemonhunters to the big stomping silvermarines.

A.T. wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The whole kill anyone near Chaos thing is stupid and non canon anyway.

I take it you've never seen the original grey knight apocalypse formation (aka the worst formation ever). It's not as prominent since the GK went from being the shrouded daemonhunters to the big stomping silvermarines.

No but formations are hardly a good source of lore.

Sharrowkyn? Shoots Fulgrim, surrounded by most of his legion, through the eye, runs off and lives. Kills some Alpha Legion guys right in front of Alpharius/Omegon and for unknown reasons he is let go unharmed. Kills another plot armour character, Lucius, but obviously both come out of it alright

How about that human who works for Malcador. The Japanese guy with the sword. Survivies fights with legionaries in the Outcast Dead, then again a couple of times in The Crimson King, and even survives an encounter with Magnus himself. Ridiculous.