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Removing the Obvious: Emperor, Primarchs, Kaldor Draigo, Cato Sicarius...

I was just kind of curious after all the years of GW and BL churning out Fluff and Fiction, were there any heroes/villains you felt just really Jumped the Shark in terms of Plot Armor.

Its understandable that a hero or a useable villain should survive (especially for those starring in a whole series of books), but I guess its how that survival is achieved (and how unbelievable it can be) that fits this question.

So

1.) Name the Character
2.) Name the Specific Incident that got you saying "Yeah........ok...."

Cawl. He doesn't just survive combat situations with no ability to dodge bullets - he also manages to not be eradicated by the conservative 75% of the Imperium on a daily basis.

Most Imperial Guard/unaugmented human characters.

Most of the Gaunt's Ghosts then, by this reckoning. (Don't mistake this as me disliking the Tanith, it's my favourite book series from the BL, but there is a hell of a lot of plot armour in those books!)

Examples include:

These are the examples I can find off the top of my head.

I think you could say that most any "named" character that stands out would have to have immense plot armor to not end up vaporized by some nuclear bomb equivalent weapon. Warboss was reported in sector 7? Nuke it and let the orks infight. 1st company ultras are attacking this base? Bomb it into oblivion. Imperial Fists have fortified this planet? Destroy the planet. Its a bit of a garbage answer because it doesn't really give particular examples of the fluff but the setting as a whole doesn't really lend itself well to having these legendary heroes if your being logical about any of this. That being said I know its fantasy in space so its why we have chainswords, power fists, primarchs, 1000 space marines per chapter, etc in a universe with races that have the tech to destroy stars.

If you kill the planet every time there's a tough enemy on it there wouldn't be any planets left....

Phoenix Lords. Almost literally unkillable. Ger ripped apart by a Dreadnought saving someone? Back in the fight seconds later. Hunting the Dreadnought.

I’m going to take a bit of an odd stance and call the Tyranids out on their BS. According to the fluff the Swarmlord will never truly go away as long as the Tyranids still have his recipe, so while he can “die,” he’ll always be back for more. The Swarmlord’s plot armor has basically been institutionalized into the game. Also Old One Eye, while still being a great character in my opinion, stretches suspension of disbelief with his survivability.

Any of the perpetuals? When you plot armour someone so hard that it becomes cannon! Terrible...

The Space Wolves. This is a Space Marine chapter with rampent mutation, that routinely buts heads with the Imperium's power structures,yet has NEVER suffered any noticable blow back for it

BrianDavion wrote:
The Space Wolves. This is a Space Marine chapter with rampent mutation, that routinely buts heads with the Imperium's power structures,yet has NEVER suffered any noticable blow back for it

That's not true though. Blood Angels are more mutated and nobody complains about them, Space Wolves technically aren't mutated at all from what was designed. Plus I'd call Ecclesiarchal assassins blowback.

Definitely the Imperial Guard characters. In a universe where they don't actually stand in the back lines and command, but rather run into the midst of vastly superior bad guys with a sword or a power fist...not a single one would last more than 3-4 battles at most.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
The Space Wolves. This is a Space Marine chapter with rampent mutation, that routinely buts heads with the Imperium's power structures,yet has NEVER suffered any noticable blow back for it

That's not true though. Blood Angels are more mutated and nobody complains about them, Space Wolves technically aren't mutated at all from what was designed. Plus I'd call Ecclesiarchal assassins blowback.

the Blood Angels mutations are fairly secret. the space wolves physical abnormalities are pretty clear

BrianDavion wrote:
The Space Wolves. This is a Space Marine chapter with rampent mutation, that routinely buts heads with the Imperium's power structures,yet has NEVER suffered any noticable blow back for it

They've quite literally spit in the Inquisitions face, they killed a Grey Knights Grandmaster, they butted heads with the Sisters of Battle, a few companies of Imperial Guard attacked Fenris and Fenris was perfectly fine.

Abaddon, Calgar, Dante and Draigo.

Sly Marbo.

Wasn't there a pdf farmer that fought alongside a space marine even picking up a chainsword and kept up with said space marine also even dropped the sword momentarily to pick up a plasma canon to blast some big gribbly bearing down on both then promptly picked the sword back up and continued fighting. He survived and the space marine stated that the civilian saved him more then once. Although I wouldn't be surprised if his reward was a mind wipe and worked to death by inquisition camp while his infant child becomes the inquisitor's cherub. At which point I'd say Grimdark has the best plot armour in 40k.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Wasn't there a pdf farmer that fought alongside a space marine even picking up a chainsword and kept up with said space marine also even dropped the sword momentarily to pick up a plasma canon to blast some big gribbly bearing down on both then promptly picked the sword back up and continued fighting. He survived and the space marine stated that the civilian saved him more then once. Although I wouldn't be surprised if his reward was a mind wipe and worked to death by inquisition camp while his infant child becomes the inquisitor's cherub. At which point I'd say Grimdark has the best plot armour in 40k.

- Please tell me this one is true!

I mean for an individual character, that is some pretty good Plot Armor right there.....

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
The Space Wolves. This is a Space Marine chapter with rampent mutation, that routinely buts heads with the Imperium's power structures,yet has NEVER suffered any noticable blow back for it

That's not true though. Blood Angels are more mutated and nobody complains about them, Space Wolves technically aren't mutated at all from what was designed. Plus I'd call Ecclesiarchal assassins blowback.

the Blood Angels mutations are fairly secret. the space wolves physical abnormalities are pretty clear

They're as secret as the "mutated" Wulfen are. They're the only abnormality in the Space Wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
The Space Wolves. This is a Space Marine chapter with rampent mutation, that routinely buts heads with the Imperium's power structures,yet has NEVER suffered any noticable blow back for it

They've quite literally spit in the Inquisitions face, they killed a Grey Knights Grandmaster, they butted heads with the Sisters of Battle, a few companies of Imperial Guard attacked Fenris and Fenris was perfectly fine.

"Butted heads" meaning the Sisters were invading them. The ones in the wrong there are the Ecclesiarchy. I assume the spitting references the Emperor's Gift story which involved Grey Knights planning to assassinate their own leader because he was that incompetent. The Grandmaster was killed after a lot of the Grey Knights killing Space Wolves and their crews willy nilly and a complete betrayal.

When did the Guard attack Fenris? When they were a bunch of rebels attacking the Fang?

GrapeApe wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Wasn't there a pdf farmer that fought alongside a space marine even picking up a chainsword and kept up with said space marine also even dropped the sword momentarily to pick up a plasma canon to blast some big gribbly bearing down on both then promptly picked the sword back up and continued fighting. He survived and the space marine stated that the civilian saved him more then once. Although I wouldn't be surprised if his reward was a mind wipe and worked to death by inquisition camp while his infant child becomes the inquisitor's cherub. At which point I'd say Grimdark has the best plot armour in 40k.

- Please tell me this one is true!

I mean for an individual character, that is some pretty good Plot Armor right there.....

I don't recall it being a plasma cannon, but a plasma gun sounds more like it.
Yes, this is true, it's from one of the Uriel Ventris books where the Tyranids invade Tarsis Ultra, and the PDF trooper named Pavul fights alongside Ventris and even keeps up with him. However, I can't remember if he dies or not.

Plot armour though wouldn't cover a single individual in a single book. I'm sure that's incredibly feasible (look at the history of real warfare - happens often).

But a career of service over decades in the Imperial Guard...on the front line? Nope.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Wasn't there a pdf farmer that fought alongside a space marine even picking up a chainsword and kept up with said space marine also even dropped the sword momentarily to pick up a plasma canon to blast some big gribbly bearing down on both then promptly picked the sword back up and continued fighting. He survived and the space marine stated that the civilian saved him more then once. Although I wouldn't be surprised if his reward was a mind wipe and worked to death by inquisition camp while his infant child becomes the inquisitor's cherub. At which point I'd say Grimdark has the best plot armour in 40k.

- Please tell me this one is true!

I mean for an individual character, that is some pretty good Plot Armor right there.....

I don't recall it being a plasma cannon, but a plasma gun sounds more like it.
Yes, this is true, it's from one of the Uriel Ventris books where the Tyranids invade Tarsis Ultra, and the PDF trooper named Pavul fights alongside Ventris and even keeps up with him. However, I can't remember if he dies or not.

I think he was fine. He got given a purity seal for shooting the Carnifex eating Ventris.

Eldrad probably has to take the ultimate win for this in that he was actually killed in the fluff at the climax of the original Eye of Terror campaign when Abaddon's Black crusade happened the first time round. He tried to commune with a Chaos-corrupted Blackstone Fortress and a Slaaneshi Daemon ate his soul.

This has since been retconned and he is once again alive and well and frolicking about with the Yannari to help awaken Ynnead.

Yes Eldrad has plot armour thick enough to simply say "Nope" to death, even in the fluf.

pm713 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Wasn't there a pdf farmer that fought alongside a space marine even picking up a chainsword and kept up with said space marine also even dropped the sword momentarily to pick up a plasma canon to blast some big gribbly bearing down on both then promptly picked the sword back up and continued fighting. He survived and the space marine stated that the civilian saved him more then once. Although I wouldn't be surprised if his reward was a mind wipe and worked to death by inquisition camp while his infant child becomes the inquisitor's cherub. At which point I'd say Grimdark has the best plot armour in 40k.

- Please tell me this one is true!

I mean for an individual character, that is some pretty good Plot Armor right there.....

I don't recall it being a plasma cannon, but a plasma gun sounds more like it.
Yes, this is true, it's from one of the Uriel Ventris books where the Tyranids invade Tarsis Ultra, and the PDF trooper named Pavul fights alongside Ventris and even keeps up with him. However, I can't remember if he dies or not.

I think he was fine. He got given a purity seal for shooting the Carnifex eating Ventris.

Yes, I remember that. I thought he might have died afterwards, apparently not!

 Karhedron wrote:
He tried to commune with a Chaos-corrupted Blackstone Fortress and a Slaaneshi Daemon ate his soul.

This is inaccurate. He was trapped in the Blackstone with the daemon. Neither could leave without the other one winning, so they were locked in conflict for eternity.

Most chaos characters. They just wouldn't (even semi-)realistically have what it takes to survive, even though they sold their souls to get bigger muscles.

Khorne: They're rabid dogs that would eventually get over their heads.

Nurgle: Collecting diseases isn't such a hot idea.

Slaanesh: Have you read Slaaneshi fluff? They are basically senseless and run around aimlessly with scissors.

Tzeentch: Everything about them just doesn't work. Unchecked mutations and a completely complacent trust in your ability to plan ahead isn't an effective combo.

Chaos undivided: Some combination of the above.

Pretty much any named character has so much plot armor surrounding them that reading their books is pretty stale... You already know how it is going to end.

The only named character book that seems to be worth reading is Lemartes'. It shows just how mad the man is since he is only in partial control of The Black Rage. But even than, you know how it will end the minute you open the book... He wins.

Any Lamenter that's still alive.

I have to concur with RedCommander's nomination of Chaos characters. They're pretty absurd.

The Emprah!

I find this pretty interesting though I don't have much to contribute myself. But I feel like it needs to be said; if it's part of the fluff it isn't plot armor. Swarmlord reviving isn't plot armor, perpetuals regenerating isn't plot armor, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RedCommander wrote:
Most chaos characters. They just wouldn't (even semi-)realistically have what it takes to survive, even though they sold their souls to get bigger muscles.

Khorne: They're rabid dogs that would eventually get over their heads.

Nurgle: Collecting diseases isn't such a hot idea.

Slaanesh: Have you read Slaaneshi fluff? They are basically senseless and run around aimlessly with scissors.

Tzeentch: Everything about them just doesn't work. Unchecked mutations and a completely complacent trust in your ability to plan ahead isn't an effective combo.

Chaos undivided: Some combination of the above.

I don't really get this. For Khorne characters I guess we have Karn who you could reasonably say has plot armor, but that's it. Nurgle collecting diseases is a great idea because it makes them stronger, that's the foundation of Nurgle fluff so it's weird to see that disregarded. For Slaanesh we just have Lucious, who has a fluff reason to revive. Like Nurgle, Tzeentch lords ability to outplan almost any opponent is a foundation of the fluff so I'm not sure how that criticism makes sense. For generic chaos you certainly get into plot armor a lot, but the reasons you gave aren't why.

What would you call plot armour then?