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Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

The best way to equip a melee Farseer in 2nd was with the Executioner. Str 8 d3 wounds and -6 save (the d3 wounds was what made it way better than the witchblade/singing spear)

Between Mind War and the Executioner powers (yes there was a Wargear and Psychic power with the same name) The Farseer could eliminate at least 1 model/character a turn with no chance of harm to himself in the psychic phase.

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The Warlock sucked primarily because the SpiritSeer was so undercosted. It still has severe limitations, but if you forget about the Spirit Seer, the Warlock was a really good deal, but not good spammed.

I think they're trying to balance Runes of Battle. So if they bumped the Spirit Seer so much, everyone would just switch to Warlocks.

I think they bumped the Warlock a little too much, but untouched he'd be too scary. Even if he stands reasonable chance of going boom any time he casts a power.

I do miss my 6e/7e Exarchs. One of the best things about the 7e book was the Exarch stats. I'd rather the CC Exarch be the beatstick and the Autarch be a leader/ not a beatstick. But in this game, they seem to want all "top HQs" to be beatsticks.

I find Farseers/Warlocks, at least since 6th, can add enough in CC to matter, but they aren't going to be your primary CC threat. I do miss 6e/7e Singing Spear, with it's potential to pen stuff, and even ID if a Chapter Master or something manages to fail a 2+. Not competitive choices, but fun.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





It's also worth noting that the Warlock, while good with access to powers is covering the Eldar's pretty comprehensive lack of buffing auras which other armies seem to get in droves (and ones they don't have to roll to activate).

Outside of Aspect specific Phoenix Lord buffs, there is only the Autarch aura, and the Avatar one.

So without any "re-roll failed wounds", and "re-roll all hits", etc. kind of auras, the Eldar rely on Warlock casting to cover that. It often has more range, but can't impact more than one unit, and must still be cast. Eldar also lack any of the somewhat silly "if you have 20 or more models, gain a free attack!" kind of stuff other armies have.

The Warlocks are carrying the workload of the special rules for the Eldar.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






It's still going to be the spiritseer being played. The warlock still sucks in comparison to the spirit seer. So any speculation about "oh they did it to raise the cost of an eldar battalion" is just rubbish. Before including a single warlock was done just to be able to use the seer council stratagem - with this current cost - even that wont be utilized.

Call this what it is - a ruling made by buffoons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 13:45:21


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear






To the people calling for Ynnari, and Inquisition for that matter, to simply be removed from the game, an honest question: has GW ever removed an army from the game that had models associated with it that were selling? I get that Ynnari only have three distinct models, but with the exception of the Visarch they're very popular models.

9000 pts 6000 pts 3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Spiritseer and Farseer points increases make perfect sense. They are both still worth their points.

The character Warlock should be more expensive than a Conclave Warlock due to its character protection. The old price of the character Warlock could have stayed the same and in conjunction with the other Seer increases, could have been worth considering.
The Conclave, however, should have dropped in cost to no more than 25ppm.

-

   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Can the character WL take a jetbike? If yes even though even more points that seems the way to go.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 Primark G wrote:
Can the character WL take a jetbike? If yes even though even more points that seems the way to go.


He can. The funny thing is that the Warlock on Jetbike has a separate datasheet, and that one did not change in value at all. Which makes this nerf even more perplexing.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 peteralmo wrote:
To the people calling for Ynnari, and Inquisition for that matter, to simply be removed from the game, an honest question: has GW ever removed an army from the game that had models associated with it that were selling? I get that Ynnari only have three distinct models, but with the exception of the Visarch they're very popular models.


Squats?
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

Bretonnia, Tomb Kings.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Fafnir wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
Can the character WL take a jetbike? If yes even though even more points that seems the way to go.


He can. The funny thing is that the Warlock on Jetbike has a separate datasheet, and that one did not change in value at all. Which makes this nerf even more perplexing.


It actually makes sense if you look from the context I posted earlier in the thread. the foot costs were the lowest, and they probably just wanted to increase the minimum requirement, not costs across the board.

imo though the conclave cost should have stayed as-is, as a risk/reward option.
   
Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

 Crimson wrote:
I think the range of the shuriken catapults is the main reason why the Eldar are a dying race.


Yeha.
I figure it is the elegance of the weaponry that stops them from improving on it.

Aeldari engineers - "But, it is the most beautiful design,
slicing off atom-thin wafers of nasty matter
spinning the jeebus out of them
and spitting them out at all sorts of critters
with enough intensity to rip up some tough stuff.
It should be the best weapon in the galaxy."

<Looking at all the guardians dead from knife wounds.>

Aeldari engineers - "Oh. This world is madness. We are all going to die."





   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




pismakron wrote:
It was pretty weird. I think at 55 points, they ought to have four wounds like other level 1 psyker characters.


chaos sorcs have 3 wounds. 4 is pushing it. two sounds right.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The problem with 2 is you're more likely than not gonna go splat on a single Perils. That's the only reason I wish the character warlock had 3w.
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Bharring wrote:
The problem with 2 is you're more likely than not gonna go splat on a single Perils. That's the only reason I wish the character warlock had 3w.


Not gonna happen while stock sorcs and libs are sporting 3.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Yeah, I can see that. So I'll remain a little bummed. Less bummed than I'd be if Warlocks were at Libby/Sorc level in stats. And we certainly don't need more inflation.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

Bharring wrote:
The problem with 2 is you're more likely than not gonna go splat on a single Perils. That's the only reason I wish the character warlock had 3w.


Rubric aspiring sorcerer has 1 wound 100% chance to die on perils PLUS explode, and because mortal wounds carry over to his units, when he perils he automatically kills 2d3 rubric marines, no questions asked. You know, the kind of models that go for 20 points with 5" movement and sport a glorified bolter and nothing else.

Warlocks are ok.

14000
15000
4000 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Bharring wrote:
Yeah, I can see that. So I'll remain a little bummed. Less bummed than I'd be if Warlocks were at Libby/Sorc level in stats. And we certainly don't need more inflation.


Well if it makes you feel better, as a 1kson player I also suffer from the 2 wound mini-caster plight. And even worse, a one wound mini-caster that will take out his own squad on a peril. The derp is real.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





That is bad. Although the 1kson psker is less likely to be the warlord. I have actually fielded my Warlock as a warlord a couple times, but I'm sure that's super rare.

At any rate, yeah, Warlocks don't have it as bad as that.
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




topaxygouroun i wrote:
Bharring wrote:
The problem with 2 is you're more likely than not gonna go splat on a single Perils. That's the only reason I wish the character warlock had 3w.


Rubric aspiring sorcerer has 1 wound 100% chance to die on perils PLUS explode, and because mortal wounds carry over to his units, when he perils he automatically kills 2d3 rubric marines, no questions asked. You know, the kind of models that go for 20 points with 5" movement and sport a glorified bolter and nothing else.

Warlocks are ok.


And a few months ago someone on dakka told me I had no idea how to play because I was not casting on my rubric asps. Mini smite or firestorm is not worth the risk. At all. So we are back at square one with rubrics, a squad with a caster that cant really cast anything in fear of blowing up the unit. And this is not going to change since we just got a FAQ.

However I still find limited use of the Asp through the cabalist focus stratagem. But that has nothing to do with manifesting powers from the actual asp.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 13:17:37


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Table wrote:
Bharring wrote:
Yeah, I can see that. So I'll remain a little bummed. Less bummed than I'd be if Warlocks were at Libby/Sorc level in stats. And we certainly don't need more inflation.


Well if it makes you feel better, as a 1kson player I also suffer from the 2 wound mini-caster plight. And even worse, a one wound mini-caster that will take out his own squad on a peril. The derp is real.

Tsons shouldn't perils - period.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Bad things happening for using their powers is somewhat key to their background.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





As I understand it, on Prospero, Libbys/Sorcs (not sure which to call them at that time) were popping left and right. From channeling too much.

I would love it if Perils weren't so much worse on the "small" pskers than the "big" ones. But it's really hard to balance.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Warlocks are fine with only 2 wounds. They are not fine, however, with 2 wounds and costing over 40pts.
Character WL should be 40ppm, Conclave WLs should be 25ppm. With the Spiritseer cost bump, this seems about right and makes all choices viable.

   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




As someone you plays against 1kSons almost regularly, I can say perils rarely happens. I get mini smited all the damn time. I think the fear is much greater than the actual risk.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Unless they're your warlord...
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

 Crimson Devil wrote:
As someone you plays against 1kSons almost regularly, I can say perils rarely happens. I get mini smited all the damn time. I think the fear is much greater than the actual risk.


As someone who plays 1kSons almost regularly, I have completely shelved my rubric units. And not because of their power level, but because of POP issues.

Back on topic, warlocks might be expensive now, but if you make a universe where you can get HQ options that are psykers for 40 pts or less, you create a very problematic theme of 200 pt battalions giving out 5 CPs easily.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 15:14:21


14000
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4000 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Guard and DE will still do that better, because they have much cheaper troop options. The cheapest HQ of those factions would need to be 70pts+ more than a Warlock for that to work. Cheapest CWE troop is 56pts (8man Storm Guardian squad). Their 5-man troop units are 12ppm minimum. So CWE would need warlocks to cost sub-20 to get a 200pt battalion.

I think the cheap Psyker side is more the issue. Especially since Runes of Battle are very good.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Table wrote:
pismakron wrote:
It was pretty weird. I think at 55 points, they ought to have four wounds like other level 1 psyker characters.


chaos sorcs have 3 wounds. 4 is pushing it. two sounds right.


Chaos Sorcerers have 4 wounds.

 blood reaper wrote:
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 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Warlocks are also Space Elves, and Sorcs/Libbys are Space Ubermensch.

For wounds, I'd think Primaris Psykers are the more apt comparison, although Warlocks are a little tougher (Warlocks have all previously been Aspect Warriors, and are much better equipped).

With Libbys at 3, it's hard for Warlocks to go up to 3.
   
 
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