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 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Except for the points the Vanilla Marines aren't doing anything better in melee.

Also does it REALLY matter that the fighting twice doesn't always happen? Is that really a flaw? Sometimes you roll well and you can't make use of the ability that really sets them apart?

That's really just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Totally not complaining. I'm just saying that if you were able to squeeze and extra rhino in by doing it, I would, and you don't lose a ton in the process since you'll already have other berzerkers anyway.

But the Chaos Marines add literally nothing. You can get Raptors instead if you really wanted something outside Berserker Marines but want mobility in some manner.

Thank you all for spelling Berzerkers/berserkers properly. May you all reap a mighty tally of skulls.

World Eaters are definitely worth playing! Even if only part of your army is made of Berzerkers, you can still use all the solid not-necessarily-Khornate units like obliterators, predators, contemptors, leviathans, and Havocs to kick major ass and make up for the close combat specialization of the blood god’s chosen.

 ServiceGames wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I play Rhinos with khorne zerks in a world eaters army. If you bring some other threat magnets like Maulerfiends, a LoW or something along those lines, you can bet your bum those rhinos will survive to get to the enemy. Not everyone is perfect, and the big bad models will look WAY more serious than the rhinos.

Ive never had someone focus my rhinos with something like my Defiler on board. Even if it is weaker, it LOOKS stronger.

Ya know, since the very first time I walked into GW (before I even started playing Warhammer or picking up the hobby), the Forgefiend has been one of my favorite models. I just never had a reason to buy one. Are Maulerfiends better in this case?

Thanks

SG

Theyre actually better! Theyre much stronger than a defiler and cheaper too.

And as an explanation why, is because a distraction unit generally wants to run up the board and be a threat. A defiler is just good at melee and ranged. Maulerfiends are great in melee. Its basically a 150ish point distraction that constantly heals and has a 5++.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Except for the points the Vanilla Marines aren't doing anything better in melee.

Also does it REALLY matter that the fighting twice doesn't always happen? Is that really a flaw? Sometimes you roll well and you can't make use of the ability that really sets them apart?

That's really just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Totally not complaining. I'm just saying that if you were able to squeeze and extra rhino in by doing it, I would, and you don't lose a ton in the process since you'll already have other berzerkers anyway.

But the Chaos Marines add literally nothing. You can get Raptors instead if you really wanted something outside Berserker Marines but want mobility in some manner.

Warp Talons are a better choice inside of World Eaters in my experiece. Get yourself a third attack off your Claws!

Are Possessed a good unit to run in World Eaters as well?

Thanks

SG

Worth playing? Worth playing?!?

The real question is whether you're worthy of playing World Eaters.

 ServiceGames wrote:
Are Possessed a good unit to run in World Eaters as well?

Thanks

SG

Nah. Khorne Berzerkers deal anywhere from 2x to 3x more damage, while the possessed are only about 1.5x tougher...And are super easily Supercharge Plasma'd.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
Are Possessed a good unit to run in World Eaters as well?

Thanks

SG

Nah. Khorne Berzerkers deal anywhere from 2x to 3x more damage, while the possessed are only about 1.5x tougher...And are super easily Supercharge Plasma'd.

Somewhat agree. They have an invuln for that problem, but you get the most out of them when you can use daemon spells on them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
Are Possessed a good unit to run in World Eaters as well?

Thanks

SG

Nah. Khorne Berzerkers deal anywhere from 2x to 3x more damage, while the possessed are only about 1.5x tougher...And are super easily Supercharge Plasma'd.

Somewhat agree. They have an invuln for that problem, but you get the most out of them when you can use daemon spells on them.

I took that invuln into account. But they cost 22 point as opposed to the 17ish per Zerk. And the Zerk in a WE detachment can lay out 8 attacks on a charge, at 5-6 str, and -1 AP for most. That is effectively trading 8 attacks for 3, 1 AP for 2, and equal strength...For a second wound and a 5++. You dont care about surviving, because Zerks kill stuff before they kill them.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Theyre actually better! Theyre much stronger than a defiler and cheaper too.

And as an explanation why, is because a distraction unit generally wants to run up the board and be a threat. A defiler is just good at melee and ranged. Maulerfiends are great in melee. Its basically a 150ish point distraction that constantly heals and has a 5++.

I like Blood Slaughterers better.

 gorgon wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Theyre actually better! Theyre much stronger than a defiler and cheaper too.

And as an explanation why, is because a distraction unit generally wants to run up the board and be a threat. A defiler is just good at melee and ranged. Maulerfiends are great in melee. Its basically a 150ish point distraction that constantly heals and has a 5++.

I like Blood Slaughterers better.

Me too. Slaughterers are so much fun. People around here don't know how to respond to seeing them on the table. Most largely ignore them, until they eat an elite squad.

I have a slaughterer, and yes they work better.

Am I going to tell him to spend all that money on a Forgeworld model, and go through the hassle of cleaning, assembling and painting the thing just for a softly stronger model? No.

If he's just looking for something as a distraction, then he can probably survive on a Maulerfiend. Besides, the point of the Maulerfiend is to DISTRACT. The Slaughterer as you pointed out, gets ignored. THat's literally the opposite of what he wants from it.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I have a slaughterer, and yes they work better.

Am I going to tell him to spend all that money on a Forgeworld model, and go through the hassle of cleaning, assembling and painting the thing just for a softly stronger model? No.

If he's just looking for something as a distraction, then he can probably survive on a Maulerfiend. Besides, the point of the Maulerfiend is to DISTRACT. The Slaughterer as you pointed out, gets ignored. THat's literally the opposite of what he wants from it.

You make a valid point! I for some reason thought we were still on good models to smash face with. Then I went back and saw we were on distraction carnifex stuff.

Why not helbrute as a distraction? Dual fisticuffs isn't that points heavy and can do some work if it gets ignored. And people know that.

 chimeara wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I have a slaughterer, and yes they work better.

Am I going to tell him to spend all that money on a Forgeworld model, and go through the hassle of cleaning, assembling and painting the thing just for a softly stronger model? No.

If he's just looking for something as a distraction, then he can probably survive on a Maulerfiend. Besides, the point of the Maulerfiend is to DISTRACT. The Slaughterer as you pointed out, gets ignored. THat's literally the opposite of what he wants from it.

You make a valid point! I for some reason thought we were still on good models to smash face with. Then I went back and saw we were on distraction carnifex stuff.

Why not helbrute as a distraction? Dual fisticuffs isn't that points heavy and can do some work if it gets ignored. And people know that.

The Maulerfiend for maybe only 30 points more has more wounds, an invuln save, and a slow regen. That middle point is the key, an invuln save. Shoot lascannons at it all day, shoot multi-meltas to your heart's content. That fiend will always be at least rolling a 5 to save. I guarentee it will draw more firepower, and survive more punishment than a helbrute.

Yeah Dread equivalents are much too slow unless they're Contemptors.

MF hits on 4s, degrades, is not crazed, and does not benefit from CT.

Of course FF has a stratagem.

A dual scourge* WE brute doesn’t sound like the worst thing in the world.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
MF hits on 4s, degrades, is not crazed, and does not benefit from CT.

Of course FF has a stratagem.

A distraction doesnt need to actually kill stuff. The stratagem for Daemonforge is simply incredible, and for 1 cp you can turn your fiend into a massive threat. Crazed is far too unreliable to be counted as anything but a neat side perk, and +1 attack off a charge is nothing to write home about. WE legion trait shines on cultists and zerks, not on brutes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
A dual scourge* WE brute doesn’t sound like the worst thing in the world.

A duel fist is far better. Yes less attacks, but those attacks HURT, and its far cheaper too with the FAQ making the second fist cost only 10

this is the list I been running. i use just W/E's for just the battalion and renegades trait for the outrider detachment. I think everyone forgot about blood slaughterers and the kharybdis. flying party bus with 20 zerkers in it is fun for all!!

I like dreadclaws instead of rhinos, especially for berserkers; they’re worth the extra points IMHO. I like maxing the plasma pistols too. The dread laws can do some damage in combat too which seems world eating to me

Rhinos are good, durable and inexpensive. Give them two assault bolters, but leave the havoc launcher at home. You will probably need rhinos in a Thousand Sons army as well.

 Malathrim wrote:
I like dreadclaws instead of rhinos, especially for berserkers; they’re worth the extra points IMHO. I like maxing the plasma pistols too. The dread laws can do some damage in combat too which seems world eating to me

I really did when we could DS them turn 1 effectively. Now, I guess we'll potentially be in a "better" position to set them up for charges, but not on turn 1. Not sure they'd get anywhere any faster than a Rhino would, and they're pretty huge to take real advantage of the fly keyword. But we'll have to try!

OP says he's primarily a hobbyist, compared to a gamer. Because of that, I highly recommend the Blood Slaughterer! It's a wicked cool miniature and it's a very good Khorne-specific alternative to a maulerfiend.

Rhinos are a must! Berzerkers are the best they've ever been, at least since I've started playing. Every game I play my Berzerkers outshine the rest of my army.

Personally, I take a load of big, scary guys. My 3 rhinos with 3x8 zerkers are the least scary, but most effective unit in my list. I have 2 demon princes and a blood slaughterer with the 3 rhinos. Rarely do the rhinos appeal to my opponent.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Most people will tell you to play Alpha Legion and use the strat to get the Berzerkers close.

Give your lord a jump pack. Also give him the axe of blind fury (assuming you don't interpret that 1s hit himself).

what? Do you also "interpret" that a roll of one on a plasma gun don't really slay your model, or that a chaos lord can not really be buffed by his own aura?
Because that's just ignoring what the rules very clearly says at that point.

VoidSempai wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Most people will tell you to play Alpha Legion and use the strat to get the Berzerkers close.

Give your lord a jump pack. Also give him the axe of blind fury (assuming you don't interpret that 1s hit himself).

what? Do you also "interpret" that a roll of one on a plasma gun don't really slay your model, or that a chaos lord can not really be buffed by his own aura?
Because that's just ignoring what the rules very clearly says at that point.

Where does it say about a chaos lord? He is within 6" of himself.

Is this really an argument? The Axe of Blind Fury cannot hit the guy holding it.

"You cannot re-roll of modify hit rolls of 1 for attacks made with the Axe of Blind Fury. Instead, these attacks automatically hit a friendly unit within 1". Randomly determine which unit is hit if there is more than one. If there are no friendly units within 1", the hit is ignored."

I can see the argument if that last sentence didn't exist. It's obvious what the RAI are and if someone tried to rules lawyers about it I would break the rules of their army in a similar way (sorry, no advancing and shooting assault weapons for you, RAW!).

I'll chime in that Blood Slaughterers are awesome and I'm constantly trying to get two in my list. I also have a Kharybdis assault claw but it's difficult to fit in when trying to also run Khorne Daemons.

@m00ndragon:I will say there's really no reason to run Renegades in that posted list since only the Princes benefit from it. Better IMO to run World Eaters and give one of the Princes the Talisman of Burning Blood. Also you can't put the World Eaters inside the kharybdis assault claw if it isn't also World Eaters. Check the FAQ for the FW book.

VoidSempai wrote:


what? Do you also "interpret" that a roll of one on a plasma gun don't really slay your model, or that a chaos lord can not really be buffed by his own aura?
Because that's just ignoring what the rules very clearly says at that point.

Do you also believe that units are destroyed when they embark a transport after turn 3?

My lists all start like this.

+++
Dark Apostle w/plasma pistol
Exalted Champion w/Power (axe/sword) & plasma pistol

3x Berzerker squad 5x axe/bolt, 2x axe/plasma, champion (axe or fist)/plasma

Havoc squad 4x autocannons, champion chain(sword/axe), combi-bolter.
+++

I know a a lot of people prefer going axe/sword, but being ableto throw a few pot shots is nice. Plus if 6xDudes attacks isn't enough to kill whatever you pointed them at, there is always fury of khorne if you're desperate.
Veterans of the Long War allows zerkers to wound anything in the game on a 4+ .
Havocs are great for busting vehicles and monsters.
Berzerker squad size is both for sacred number, as well as a way for me to not derp and try to put 11 dudes in a rhino.

A fun way to throw off an opponent is to take Fabius and buff a squad of 19 or 20 (19 if you had a karybdis, 20 if not). 15-20 zerks who are either t5/s7/a4x2 are terrifying to stare down.

Maulerfiends are a great distraction. If you are bringing 3 along a skullmaster (juggernaut herald) with the crown is a VERY good idea.

Big thing to remember as WE though. Every game should be played like kill points. Holding objectives is for the coward loyalists.

IMO just run your Maulers as Blood Slaughterers and leave the JuggerHerald at home, though giving them reroll charge distances and exploding dice isn't the worst thing in the world. For 8 points more than a Mauler, Slaughterers get more attacks, even MORE attacks against <Infantry>, more strength, more speed, and a ranged attack that only has to hit to make your charge easier. They lose two wounds to become killing machines.

IDK how I feel about the Havoc squad with autocannons. Are they your only ranged?

That's the "build from here" base. And normally I just do a second havoc squad. This is world eaters here. Guns are the to crack transports and soften back lines. Berzerkers do the real leg work.

Herald gives friends s7 base, for s14 fists. So well worth the 60-100 points depending on if you want the juggy or not.

StarHunter25 wrote:
That's the "build from here" base. And normally I just do a second havoc squad. This is world eaters here. Guns are the to crack transports and soften back lines. Berzerkers do the real leg work.

Herald gives friends s7 base, for s14 fists. So well worth the 60-100 points depending on if you want the juggy or not.

I can see them being important for that reason. I don't have Havocs myself, all I've got are Bikes left over from my KDK days. Plasma Bikes I've heard aren't bad for doing the same transport popping, though they're slightly less good at it. I'm also thinking of running some Raptors to get more plasma up the board.

I guess it also depends on how you're getting the Herald onto the field. A jugger if you're starting on the board or on foot if you're deep striking him. On the board is probably better.