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Ha yes, the Ork index, and probably codex, is the perfect example of GW removing options and making the hobby less of a hobby. Not saying this will happen but I am 70% sure just because I'm very much a "I will always use past actions on Orks as evidence until proven differently" kinda guy. But we have lost, ard boy, yellow paint, red paint, grot riggers, extra armour, boarding ramps, ect... and (if gw doesn't add anything new) will will lose big mek with kff, warbos in bike, big mek on bike, painbiy on bike, warbos in mega armour, big mek with kustom blaster, big mek with any gun actually apart from shokk attack gun... now i think about it that's even more potential hqs gone... but look at 7th edition where we had 10 none character hqs and now (if all goes as predicted) we will end up with only 4 hqs jone character hqs. That's a lot of options gone for warbands. Just let that settle in and now you know why I'm nervous for our codex.

For those who want a full list of stuff we will lose in hqs alone if gw doesn't make new kits:

7th edition Hq options
General warboss hqs:
Warboss with choppa and sluga
Warboss with shoota
Warboss with combi rokkot launcha
Warboss with combi skorcha
Warboss with twinlink shoota
Warboss with big choppa
Warboss with pk
Warboss with cyborg body parts
Ammo runt
Git finder

Warboss with bike:
All options above options

Warboss with mega armour:
All options above

General Big mek hqs:
Mek with choppa sluga
Mek with killsaw
Mek with big choppa
Mek with PK
Mek with kombi rokkit
Mek with kombi shorcha
Mek with kmb
Mek with kms
Mekw ith rokkit launcha
Mek with shokk attack gun
Mek with kff
Cyborg
Gut finder
Ammo runt

Bike big mek:
All of the above

Mega armour big mek:
All of the above
Telleblasta

Weirdboy:
Same as 8th

Painboy:
Was a hq
Same options as 8th apart from ammo runt, ect...

Paint boy on bike:
Same as above

Mek:
Was a hq
About the same options as 8th edition apart from the extra stuff

In total that made a potential (if we look at weapon load outs alone) 75+ hq options.

Now let's look at 8th edition HQ options if GW removed everything without a model and didn't add anything new.

Warboss (I'm including facerippa because he is no longer a character but still has a model):
Warboss with kustom shoota
Warbos with big choppa
Warboss with kombi rokkit
Warboss with pK

Big mek:
Big mek with shokk attack gun

Big mek in mega armour:
Big mek with kmb
Big mek with kill saw
Big mek with PK
Big mek with telleblasta
Big mek with kff
Big mek kombi rokkit

Weirdboy:
1 option only.

So... we now have a total of 12 hq options. Therefore, in one edition we could lose about 65+ options in hqs alone! This is why i am nervous. XD people say this trims down the fat but I saw it makes armies boring and gives them less personality. Before you could have 70+unique warlords with unique stories... now every 12 people will have the same dude.

Warbuggy that can be built as a bad doc on 'bike' (counts as ambulance!) or big mek on 'bike' (counts as recovery/tow truck)

You won't lose anything that has a Profile in the Index, so calm down.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
You won't lose anything that has a Profile in the Index, so calm down.

But if something is so badly out costed because it's index only we have effectively lost it?

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
You won't lose anything that has a Profile in the Index, so calm down.

Based on what? Other armies have had plenty of stuff in the index not make it to the codex and index only units have predominantly not been getting updated.

So a combination of wish list and speculation:

- An Ork triumvirate of Ghaz, Mad Doc and a weirdboy (Zogwort?!)
- New buggies with various weapon options
- New deffkoptas. I honestly don’t know whether I’d prefer a totally new design or an updated reissue of th AoBR ones (they’re a lovely model)
- A bike HQ kit would be cool; head and weapon swaps could give you at least a Warboss and a Mek option.
- I’d like to say a multi-option Warboss/Big Mek character kit, but I think two single-frame characters with limited options are much more likely (think Primaris Chaplain/Apothecary)
- plastic Kommandos and Tankbustas would be awesome; a combined kit would be possible, with a load of excess parts (look how little is shared in the Tau Firewarrior/Breacher kit), which would be great for the bits box!

I hate this "the index will alway be there". It's like EA telling you that you that their games will be there forever as they shut down all the servers and make it unplayable. But no really, the index has a few problems.

1) it won't last forever. GW is a business and 8th edition will notmlast forever. It could very well be outdated in 1 or 2 years. Therefore, once your int goes from the codex, we're on a ticking time bomb before 8ut armies life support goes forever.

2) ah yes, it's okay for 60 out of 70 of our options to never get an update ever again? Sure that's comforting to the many players who are basically forced now to buy new models. Never mid creativity going down.

3)talking about creativity? Why would a new player even buy the index? What if he wants a warboss to lead his Evil Sunz or a BadMoon Mega armour warboss? Now every new Ork player is going to just bring the exsact same list and have no motivation to be creative.

 Marmatag wrote:
Size wise Ghaz should not be bigger than Guilliman.

The daemon primarchs are ridiculously oversized.

....Wha?

You never played Epic, did you? If anything Eldar Avatars should be a fair chunk bigger (FW has their size about right) and I daresay things like Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes could do with being a bit beefier bois.

The Daemon Primarchs are pretty much spot on for their size. Ghaz should be the size of Bob G, if not bigger.

It's all to do with representation of power.

The Daemon Primarchs are literally THE most favoured of their particular god. As such they are pumped so full of power they rival Greater Daemons.

Orks get bigger the stronger they get. Ghaz is the PINNACLE of Orkdom. He's literally the biggest there is and as such should be that damn big. If you read the 30k stuff you have to realise that Ork Warbosses- normal Ork Warbosses are BIG enough to rival Primarchs in terms of strength and power. Ghaz is basically a Warboss cranked up to 11. On crack.

For the same reason - i.e. the stronger they are, the bigger theyare - we need a new Swarmlord kit -rivalling Greater Daemons. It's essentially a pinnacle Hive Tyrant and after why Kryptman did, diverting the Octarian ork waagh into the Hive Fleets...well...big bugs are a must.

If anything Bob G should be SMALLER. He's a normal Primarch. He's not particularly big (as Magnus and Vulkan were described to be), he's not really been augmented by any external sources (such as Chaos, the power of the Waaagh, the Hive Mind etc). He's just a Primarch in a fancy suit of armour. And yet the 40k Bob G TOWERS over his 30k counterpart...uh...why? Primarchs aren't Dreadnought sized. They're Terminator sized unless they are particularly big. Unless that fancy suit props him up on stilts....

Now model-wise...

We might not see a new Ghaz. Fair enough. We've not seen a new Abaddon and that's a far, far older model than the current Ghaz. If you want to go by age....

Abaddon, Fabius Bile, Mephiston, Dante, Corbulo, Azrael, Ezekiel, Ragnar Blackmane, the Phoenix Lords and Drazhar all need an update far before Ghaz does.

Realistically I can see the Ork release getting new buggies, traks and deffkoptas as those are pretty much what is missing from your range - or are the most dated. You do also need, at least, a plastic Warboss with a Choppa as both plastic bosses have Klaws and arm to hand scale is off between the Warbosses and Nobz so it's not even as though you can take choppa bits from other units in the range to kitbash it properly without ending up with Warboss McTinyHand.


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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
You won't lose anything that has a Profile in the Index, so calm down.

Man, was I glad to see Chaos Lords on bikes in the CSM Codex!

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

If anything Bob G should be SMALLER. He's a normal Primarch. He's not particularly big (as Magnus and Vulkan were described to be), he's not really been augmented by any external sources (such as Chaos, the power of the Waaagh, the Hive Mind etc). He's just a Primarch in a fancy suit of armour. And yet the 40k Bob G TOWERS over his 30k counterpart...uh...why? Primarchs aren't Dreadnought sized. They're Terminator sized unless they are particularly big. Unless that fancy suit props him up on stilts....

40K Guilliman is pretty much the standard 30K primarch size, just bulked out a bit by his armour. I don't see any towering...

Also, 30K primarchs are much bigger than terminator sized.

As someone who has friends who play in white scar and csm I can tell you that even after a year they're still upset that some of their units never made it to the codex.... i feel their pain and don't wsnt it. XD

Byt yeah... the whole "Orks get bigger" lore is in a bit of a weird space. It was always accepted that Orks got bigger and smarter as they fought but it was also accepted that a lot of this also came from experience as well. An ork that lasts 10 years in war will obviously be stronger and smarter than an ork born yesterday. However, with the natural growth due ti fighting we always just saw them as growing tougher and larger (dreadnought size at most) but the whole "growing as big as a house!" thing is actually pretty new. I kinda liked the old one where they would grow in size as fighting added experience and nutrition to them but jot gigantic. As for the waaaagh energy... this one kinda annoys me... the old lore had it perfect. The waagh energy increases the more orks join the cause but it doesn't just make orks big... it increases their intelligence, allows them to do impossible things (make tecknolgy bigger, faster, stronger, ect...) and allows weirdboys to do some messed up stuff! But now it just seems to make them big. So not sure what else to say.... because look at the evil snz warboss who is currently gaving a bug race across the galaxy. He didn't get bigger, but he got faster because of that energy! So, i suppose it kinda just does what it always did, makes orks believe something is true and so it becomes true... a goff might think he is stronger so he gets stronger, a blood axe might think he is smarter so he gets smarter, an evil sunz might think he is faster so he goes faster, ect.... who knows what gw thinks now adays i sem to have lostbtrack of the ork lore like 5 years ago.

I don't want a Primork sized Ghaz for 1 main reason. Unless the codex DRASTICALLY changes our bigger, more expensive units, Ghaz will simply become a giant turn 1 target for every available lascannon and similar anti-tank weapon.

As for models. I am really hoping for some new buggies. I am not too crazy about yet another walker for our army, as it stands we have basically the most original walkers of any faction in a single codex. Kanz, Dreadz, Nautz and Stompa. I can't think of any other faction that has 4 distinctly different walkers besides Imperial knights who are literally just walkers.

The worst part is that none of our walkers have been worth a damn since about 5th edition.

Yeah I dont expect Ghaz to be an amazing 100% take every game you can afford him in choice, but I would like to see a new Primeork version of him simply from a modeling standpoint. Would be cool to have him as a big centerpiece to a collection being nearly the size of a gorkanaut with lots of details. Sigh...I can dream


Agreed about the walkers though. Being able to bring back dreadmob/kan wall would be awesome.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
You won't lose anything that has a Profile in the Index, so calm down.

Man, was I glad to see Chaos Lords on bikes in the CSM Codex!

It doesn't matter, due to the FAQ you can still play him just fine, even with Codex points costs.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
You won't lose anything that has a Profile in the Index, so calm down.

Man, was I glad to see Chaos Lords on bikes in the CSM Codex!

It doesn't matter, due to the FAQ you can still play him just fine, even with Codex points costs.

If warbosses get a big price drop and new wargear options but Warboss on bike doesn't make the codex then the biker boss will be stuck at the old points and old wargear options.

It matters much more than you're suggesting.

Those models will still be playable and all their old wargear will get the point costs of the Codex, that's the most important part.

I agree it's dumb that GW doesn't put all the options into the Codizes as well, but at least they aknowledged the demand for those units and found a pretty smooth solution with that spreadsheet.

To me the points don't matter so much. I play for fun... i more care about the fact armies would be on life supports until GW does away with it for good. However, I do feelmfor competitive players.. They're basically being told their army is not correct and should make the same army as everyone else in a subtle way. Sure, they can still use the warbos but his points will be more then just inefficient... he'll be a handicap to your army just because you didn't want to bring the same footslog army every other ork player brought.

Look at Eldar for absolute proof of how limited options and unbalance effect the game. I'm not talking about one side always winning or that the game needs perfect balance, I'm talking about every tournament army having the exsact same units with no variety. It's so boring and give the wrong impression of the true 40k experience. I haven't watch a 40k tournament game in a year because I know what to expect there... I geuss the armies and tactics before it even happens... so who knownwhat the avarge view thinks...


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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Those models will still be playable and all their old wargear will get the point costs of the Codex, that's the most important part.

I agree it's dumb that GW doesn't put all the options into the Codizes as well, but at least they aknowledged the demand for those units and found a pretty smooth solution with that spreadsheet.

Another smooth solution would be make models for the units they created! Or better yet, keep the units in and let the 3rd parties make profit on sales gw wouldn't even be losing anyway because they do not have models for them. -_-

Personally if GW was to redo Ghaz, I would prefer if it was to be done in a similar way as the Great unclean one, where you can choose to have the model as either Rotigus or a Generic GUO. So either Ghaz or (insert clan) Warboss/Primeork.

But as for wishlisting new and updating models.....

Buggies but with more weapon options than current
War tracks but with more weapon options than current
Kommandos and tankbusta kit
AOBR Deffkoptas with all weapon options
Nobz on warbikes
All of our current index characters (with full weapon options) including biker or jet pack versions

....but only kommandos if GW were to significantly change the rules so they aren’t just deep striking boyz, if not, these would be on the chopping block from the codex for me.

 lolman1c wrote:


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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Those models will still be playable and all their old wargear will get the point costs of the Codex, that's the most important part.

I agree it's dumb that GW doesn't put all the options into the Codizes as well, but at least they aknowledged the demand for those units and found a pretty smooth solution with that spreadsheet.

Another smooth solution would be make models for the units they created! Or better yet, keep the units in and let the 3rd parties make profit on sales gw wouldn't even be losing anyway because they do not have models for them. -_-

Totally agree. And for all Space Marine factions (and I guess Orks as well) you don't even have to resort to 3rd party necessarily. It's not that hard to put a librarian body not on legs but on that Bike. Or equip a jump pack. You can totally do that with the parts provided by GW (I didn't, I made puppets war and Kromlech happy ).

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Those models will still be playable and all their old wargear will get the point costs of the Codex, that's the most important part.

I agree it's dumb that GW doesn't put all the options into the Codizes as well, but at least they aknowledged the demand for those units and found a pretty smooth solution with that spreadsheet.

Another smooth solution would be make models for the units they created! Or better yet, keep the units in and let the 3rd parties make profit on sales gw wouldn't even be losing anyway because they do not have models for them. -_-

Totally agree. And for all Space Marine factions (and I guess Orks as well) you don't even have to resort to 3rd party necessarily. It's not that hard to put a librarian body not on legs but on that Bike. Or equip a jump pack. You can totally do that with the parts provided by GW (I didn't, I made puppets war and Kromlech happy ).

This is what confuses me... I don't know if GW (in their constant shifts of new employees) just forgot the majority of their kis are interchangeable like lego... now why would anybody wants to buy a biker and a librarian to make a single model if it might not even be about in a year? Hell, I talked about how gw actually make more money the more models they make due some maths thing my partner told me in the other thresd on how much gw stuff costs to make. So doing a deal of selling these kits together to make more money would be good for everyone.

Two words: Ork Dragsters.

A fast, somewhat tough vehicle unit mostly kitted for assaults that could be used as the dedicated close combat component of a mechanized force, or as a harder-hitting spearhead unit for a biker mob. Also I just think it would be an awesome model.

I'd just like to point out that Ghaz only connection to a clan is his GOFF keyword, since he started out as a goff boy.

Considering all faction benefits are lost when mixing factions, that GOFF keyword would cause any other klan to lose it's klan benefit when fielding Ghaz in their detachment.

He basically needs an exception like Fabius Bile has.

Fluff-wise Thrakka treats all clans the same, he uses the strength of each to reach his goals. There are pieces of fluff of him leading mobs of Goff, Bad Moons, Snakebites, Freebootas and Deff Skulls, and his strategies almost always involve Blood Axes and/or Evil Suns.

Size-wize I think this classic picture from old ork codices nails it:



Notice how the MANz behind him don't even reach up to his shoulders?

You see, that's a good sized Ork that is both threatening but not over the top.

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
Two words: Ork Dragsters.

A fast, somewhat tough vehicle unit mostly kitted for assaults that could be used as the dedicated close combat component of a mechanized force, or as a harder-hitting spearhead unit for a biker mob. Also I just think it would be an awesome model.

This is already a thing in Imperial Armour - Mekboy Speedsta.

That making it into the codex and getting a model would be awesome.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
Two words: Ork Dragsters.

A fast, somewhat tough vehicle unit mostly kitted for assaults that could be used as the dedicated close combat component of a mechanized force, or as a harder-hitting spearhead unit for a biker mob. Also I just think it would be an awesome model.

This is already a thing in Imperial Armour - Mekboy Speedsta.

That making it into the codex and getting a model would be awesome.

Oh neat! I was unaware of them. I agree that having them in the codex, or, even better, with a model, would be great! I mean, Dragsters already look pretty orky...

I would love bike hqs with a lot of kustom stuff. Like they jist give you a bunch of lego peices and uou out them together how ever you like... i always felt the deff dread was like this... it has so many faces so all the deff dreads look unique in some way.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
Two words: Ork Dragsters.

A fast, somewhat tough vehicle unit mostly kitted for assaults that could be used as the dedicated close combat component of a mechanized force, or as a harder-hitting spearhead unit for a biker mob. Also I just think it would be an awesome model.

This is already a thing in Imperial Armour - Mekboy Speedsta.

That making it into the codex and getting a model would be awesome.

Is the Mekboy Speedsta the same thing as the Mekboy Junka?

I think Epic had a Speedsta model that was a cool looking hot rod.


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A couple mostly inconsequential things I would like are Kustom Sluggas and Kustom Choppas. The ones that Nobz come with are bigger and more impressive looking than the ones that Boyz come with, and if they were really cheap/free it might make them worth taking sometimes. Right now there is basically no reason to take a slugga when you can give your nob a shoota for free. Maybe if he could have a slugga that was S5 or Pistol 3 for 0 points it would be a more interesting decision.

Haha, Epic had some pretty epic ork armies and units, I have a blod axe Epic army and I don't even play the game.

Business advice for GW: Make a new Ghazzy and you sell each player one. Make a new Buggy, and you sell each player...how many?

Make a kit that has lots of buggies in. You pay for one mold but produce 3 buggies then people buy more because they think it's a beter deal. Boom! I got me an amazing speed freaks army!

No, but seriously, if GW did make a nee kit for new speed vechiles I would, that day, spend about £100+ on new ork stuff. I haven't bought anything new in like a year... i'm saving it for either 40kmor something else... depends what is better.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Business advice for GW: Make a new Ghazzy and you sell each player one. Make a new Buggy, and you sell each player...how many?

If it's really good? 12+ for me. Plus a bunch of bikes and other stuff that goes fast.