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I whole heartedly agree about Tesla being sub par, but I'm just talking theoreticals for the time being.
In actual practice I'm going to be bringing Gauss Immortals.
Have yet to get a game in, however.
I hear very mixed things about Deathmarks at the moment. I'm wondering if that's just because people are only taking the single one, maybe two at most. I'm really interested to see if those [6 Deathmark + 1 Flayed One] or [4 Deathmarks + 4 Flayed Ones] lists idea work out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/02 06:24:36
Played 3 games of killteam so far, here are my thoughts:
-immortals vs warriors: I’m not convinced that the immortals is superior to the warrior. Here’s why:
1: The extra body on the board really helps. A single model alone is quite survivable because of how injuries work.
2: Less bodies also means your killteams effectiveness drops more quickly when flesh wounds and close combats happen. One game against SM in the first turn 3 of my Immortals had one flesh wound, severely decreasing their effectiveness. And another game two of my immortals were locked in combat. And remember, in Killteam it’s very easy to stay permanently locked in Combat.
3; Less bodies makes it more likely for everyone to get a flesh wound and thus auto-breaking your killteam. We don’t have the luxury of having a cheap model who can stay behind to avoid this. In both games were I didn’t take warriors my killteam was broken turn 3-4.
I’m gonna keep switching between an immortal and warrior heavy list and see which will bring me more results. So far, warriors have my preference.
Furtheremore;
-A sniper deathmark is basically an auto-include. Get him into rapid-fire range and he can quite reliably put a wound on an enemy model.
-Everyone mentions that the comms buff should always go to the Deathmark, but I think it’s worth more on a rapid-fire immortal/Warrior.
-Flayed Ones can be ok, but I used them against Astartes and I was reminded of how horrible AP0 was against a 3+ save. Two Flayed Ones (one being a combat specialist) took three turns to take down a Primaris marine....
-Our stratagems are quite good. ‘Ignores cover’ is useful every turn and +1S really helps out Flayed Ones. Another one I used every turn was the stratagem that let’’s you ignore the penalty of one flesh wound. This unfortunately left me with no command points to spend on re-rolls or other stratagems.
I’m thinking of trying a 85-90 point list to get +1 CP per turn.
Orks and Nids would probably see that and think it's cute.
I don't know if Nids would have an easy time with it, but Orks probably. I think it's worth having 10 in your Roster so if you show up to a table and see, for instance, Take Prisoners against something soft that you can beat up on (perhaps Guard or Tau depending on what's in their roster), you can just bust it out as a surprise tactic. There's not a lot of variety in our loadouts, so our Rosters are not too cluttered as is.
Orks and Nids would probably see that and think it's cute.
I don't know if Nids would have an easy time with it, but Orks probably. I think it's worth having 10 in your Roster so if you show up to a table and see, for instance, Take Prisoners against something soft that you can beat up on (perhaps Guard or Tau depending on what's in their roster), you can just bust it out as a surprise tactic. There's not a lot of variety in our loadouts, so our Rosters are not too cluttered as is.
I would not send 10 Flayed Ones vs a gun army like guard or Tau. If you fail your charges that's a free overwatch on the model and the opponent can choose to retreat which will hamper you even more. And if you try advance the FO up they will just shoot at whatever is closest until dead. FO army would be good vs other melee lists but not a dedicated gun army
Reanimation Protocols - On an injury roll of a 6, the model instead of being taken out of action is healed to full health. - I'd prefer FNP, but this isn't too bad. Can restore the effectiveness of a model after substantial damage.
Worth pointing out for people who haven't spotted this: multi damage weapons roll 1D6 per point of damage then have to pick the highest. This means more dice which means more chance of RP triggering for Necrons. We're still more likely to go OOA if the opponent is rolling more dice, but we're a *lot* less likely than other races. I think it's ~45% chance of going OOA at 2 - 4 damage, with a 50% chance of healing at 4 damage (yes, if we're hit by a 4 damage weapon, we're more likely to heal than we are to go OOA). All of this assuming a +0 injury roll mod!
This also has an interesting interaction with the Prime Reanimation Protocols tactic. I ran the maths on this because I assumed how it worked was before you roll an injury test you fire it and an extra D6 is added/lowest picked. I had no idea when it would be better to use that or stick to regular RP! However, I've since been informed that due to the wording of PRP you get to see the results of the roll before you commit to using it. So, you can probably easily turn an OOA result from a 1, 2 or 3 damage attack into a flesh wound instead! And considering we're pretty much immune to Nerve checks, that doesn't seem bad at all; we're going to be overall hard to remove from the board, up there with DG and TS, but also much harder to shake n break than those teams. We can do very well in a war of attrition!
Final minor point: a Zealot Flayed one with the right ability from the tree can be unkillable from the first attack if they're obscured On a 6 they heal, a roll of 5 becomes a 3, which is a flesh wound.
EDIT: To give people the numbers: for a 2 damage attack, with a 0 mod, a regular model is FW 25% of the time and OOA 75% of the time. Necrons are FW 25% of the time, OOA 44% of the time and trigger RP 31% of the time. Some people are grumbling this is not RAI and have sent in FAQ questions, seems cool to me and gives us a big buff in survivability while we lack in offense.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/02 16:01:58
In the 3 games I've played of KT with my crons so far running the following
Leader
Immortal Gauss
Specialists
Immortal Gauss Comms
Deathmark Sniper
Flayed One Combat
Non-Specialists
Immortal Gauss
Immortal Gauss
Flayed One
I've noted a few things
1. Sniper Deathmark - Giving him the Comms buff, and then using CP as desired makes this guy, really really reliable. Has been a solid unit in all games
2. Gauss Immortals - Seem to be doing a very good job of killing special weapons troopers before they get to fire too much. They die, but tend to punch back hard enough to make them worthwhile. Honestly, they are the linebackers I need them to be.
3. Flayed Ones - They've both died in both games after bouncing off power armor in assault. I haven't been particularly impressed by them, but they have not gotten a chance to hit a preferred target, only MEQ.
Positioning wise, I'm finding advancing to mid-board is a must, I keep getting out-ranged by intercessors early, closing the gap, and rapid-firing things out of existence with focus fire. Late game, based on the way things have gone, I've abandoned cover to get clear LOS to maximize my damage.
General note. 7 models feels like a sweet spot for me. You have to lose 4 models before taking a break check, instead of 3 with 6 models. I'm thinking odd numbers might be the way to go in general.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Pretty sure I'd rather take Warriors than Flayed Ones to get up to a break point on number of models.
Flayed Ones just aren't very good. When I get Take Prisoners, the fire team of Flayed Ones can come out.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
I'm thinking about running this for my first foray into KT:
G.Immortal (16)
G.Immortal (16)
G.Immortal (16)
Deathmark (15)
Deathmark (15)
Warrior (12)
Flayed One (10)
= 100 points on the nose.
With at least one model from everything we're allowed to bring, I'm hoping to see a bit of how they each perform.
Granted, not the best way to test, but it does look like a semi decent mix. (if it's just for testing, I might even run one of the Immortals with Tesla. Yes, I know, sub par, but it's just a test run. If he completely blows he'll get his Gauss Blaster back).
The thing now is figuring out who should be what specialist role...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/03 02:36:14
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
iGuy91 wrote: The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Yeah, a Zealot Flayed One buffed with Disruption Fields is going to be S6 A4 on the turn he charges. Too bad there's no way to get them any -AP.
And having one Deathmark as a Sniper and the other Deathmark buffed by the Comms should have them both hitting on 2+ (I have yet to see anything that disallows the Comms Specialist from buffing himself so please correct me with the corresponding rule page if I'm wrong).
But who should be Leader, then?
I've heard giving it to a Warrior is something people do (because Leaders are tax or something?), but wouldn't that be too risky, with only a 4+ save?
"Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect."
"As the Acolyte Hybrid is always within 6" of itself, it benefits from this ability as well."
Awesome!
Careful-Aim-Sniper and Comms-Scanner-"Sniper" Deathmark buddies both hitting on 2+ it is, then!
(though the real Sniper gets to reroll 1s as well)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/03 14:24:19
iGuy91 wrote: The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Yeah, a Zealot Flayed One buffed with Disruption Fields is going to be S6 A4 on the turn he charges. Too bad there's no way to get them any -AP.
And having one Deathmark as a Sniper and the other Deathmark buffed by the Comms should have them both hitting on 2+ (I have yet to see anything that disallows the Comms Specialist from buffing himself so please correct me with the corresponding rule page if I'm wrong).
But who should be Leader, then?
I've heard giving it to a Warrior is something people do (because Leaders are tax or something?), but wouldn't that be too risky, with only a 4+ save?
If you aren't going for a Warrior-heavy team, I'd say just make one of the Immortals the leader. We can't afford to keep a model back safely.
iGuy91 wrote: The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Yeah, a Zealot Flayed One buffed with Disruption Fields is going to be S6 A4 on the turn he charges. Too bad there's no way to get them any -AP.
And having one Deathmark as a Sniper and the other Deathmark buffed by the Comms should have them both hitting on 2+ (I have yet to see anything that disallows the Comms Specialist from buffing himself so please correct me with the corresponding rule page if I'm wrong).
But who should be Leader, then?
I've heard giving it to a Warrior is something people do (because Leaders are tax or something?), but wouldn't that be too risky, with only a 4+ save?
If you aren't going for a Warrior-heavy team, I'd say just make one of the Immortals the leader. We can't afford to keep a model back safely.
Agreed, we don't have the body count to hide our leaders. So I suggest keeping them as someone more survivable, maybe on a flank.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
Who cares, Necrons can't have Demo.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
Who cares, Necrons can't have Demo.
I found that really annoying. real bummer on that one.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Odrankt wrote: when you pick a model from your kill team to shoot that is within 6" of this model
But he would still also be within 6" of himself.
If it said "another model", like the Leader lvl 1 tactic (Choose another friendly model within 3") then I could see that being a case of "Okay obviously it can't be himself if it specifically says to pick someone else", but without that I don't see any reason why they would have to exclude themselves from their abilities.
Is there something in the rules somewhere that I might have missed that says otherwise? (genuinely don't know, I only skimmed on my way to the Necrons section).
If not then you should be able to stack a couple buff on Telsa guys that might make them useful no matter the situation.
(though I still think the best guys to be doing combos with are Deathmarks)
The two Deathmarks stay back in cover and take shots without penalty (possibly moving up into rapid fire range or to sit on objectives).
The regular Immortals ahead of the Leader as meat shields, with the Warrior following him in case anyone tries to get behind (if needs be he can be left on objectives). Flayed One accompanying them in cover as counter assault.
Should work out in theory.
(Though I still want to try out those Deathmark+Flayed One only lists, too)
[edit]
Could in theory drop the Warrior to give the list an extra Command Point every turn... but then you'd only have six guys on the board.
Worth it for the extra tactic flexibility?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/04 01:13:18
I don't get the deathmark hype. It's an overpriced tactical to me. The weapon wants it to be out of RF range, so it's about 2x worse damage output than gauss in RF range at -1.
Sure you get mortal wounds on a 6 but with no way to boost wound rolls... most of the time it's a simple bolter
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/04 09:11:06
rvd1ofakind wrote: I don't get the deathmark hype. It's an overpriced tactical to me. The weapon wants it to be out of RF range, so it's about 2x worse damage output than gauss in RF range at -1.
Sure you get mortal wounds on a 6 but with no way to boost wound rolls... most of the time it's a simple bolter
Using a one or two of them to cover the entire board without penalty while your Gauss Immortals move up is pretty handy. If they're in cover outside of everyone else's RF range, anyone shooting at them should have a -2 to hit, whereas the Deathmarks themselves can have a 2+ to hit things out in the open (with Sniper or Comms).
But yeah, if there was a way to get them wound rerolls, even if it was just 1s, they would be auto include all day. (fingers crossed for some cool new tactics like that in the Necron box?)
rvd1ofakind wrote: But why wouldn't you use coms on an immortal within RF anyway? That's +1 for 2 shots
You could, but during the first turn while everyone is moving up the table, might as well give it to the guy who can shoot without penalty first.
Once the Immortals are in RF range, yeah, then would be better stuck on them.
Turn 1: Immortals move up. Comms gives Sniper Deathmark +1 to hit (helps that he rerolls 1s as well). Immortals take pot shots at whatever they can see as well.
Turn 2: Comms gives an Immortal the +1. Hopefully he's in RF range now. Consider giving him the extra -1AP tactic as well if it's really needed.
Turn 3: Repeat actions from turn 2. Possibly in combat now. Hope you brought a Flayed One to counter charge with.
On a 6 they heal, a roll of 5 becomes a 3, which is a flesh wound.
10000 pts
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