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Question.
Aside from survivability, why keep deathmarks out of rapid fire range. 2 shots is more chances to get mortal wounds, right?
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
iGuy91 wrote: Question.
Aside from survivability, why keep deathmarks out of rapid fire range. 2 shots is more chances to get mortal wounds, right?
I was mostly thinking survivability / to use as a harassment (ie. "I can shoot you good, but you can't shoot me good").
If I wanted to increase my odds at generating mortal wounds I'd take the 6 Deathmark+1 Flayed One list. (which I may yet do)
It's board control. If you can set Deathmarks up in good fire lanes with cover, it limits where your opponent can move safely. The gun is nothing special, sure, but in a game with so many minuses to hit, getting to a 3+ or even 2+ to hit reliably every turn (other Stratagems like Get Down nonwithstanding) is extremely powerful. It's not so much about camping snipers as it is being safe with no penalty, which few other units in the game have.
This isn't 40k, where the objective is to get in and smash as hard as possible quickly, with how the game works it is very much about positioning, denying your opponent, and getting advantages they don't have.
I use DMs to hold objects while I send my models up the field, I use them so if my opponent gets into RF range they will regret it and I use them cause they the only model we have that re-rolls 1 to hit and to ignore the distances -1 modifier. Don't compare them to Immortals. Compare them to Warriors. I used 2 DMs in my 3 games and are very clutch. Don't knock something out until you try it yourself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/04 16:07:27
The best specialists I've see in play so far are Comms as a general buff, i'd suggest an immortal, sniper is great too for a deathmark.
Flayed One Might benefit from zealot more than combat specialist. 3 attacks as long as you hit well wounding on 3s rerolling is pretty solid, but otherwise
Ironically, demolitions turns out to be far better on sniper weapons than sniper does, as each plus one to wound increases the chance of mortal wounding a model
I don't think that's the case - even if they could take it. To get the bonus from Demolitions, the target has to be obscured, and thus you are taking a -1 to hit them. -1 to hit hurts, so that -1 to hit and +1 to wound ends up as less efficient than simply rerolling 1's to hit. (Of course, if all your targets are obscured, then there might be a case for it - not sure how likely that is yet, need more games played!)
I think Comms (for the +1 to hit) is better than both, though. But then, you probably want to give that to the Tesla-mortal, if you can get them close quickly enough.
Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Deathmark(Leader)
Deathmark(Sniper)
T Immortal (Comms)
Flayed One (Combat)
Flayed One
G Immortal
G Immortal
First game was against a guy who brought an entire list of Primaris Reivers. Got completely crushed, the Reivers totally outmatched my Flayed Ones in combat and went on to tag the rest of my models. He went on to go 4-0 and win the tournament so uh, Primaris are pretty good in this ruleset it seems.
Second was against Guard, and I'm still mad about it. It was the mission where you only score points for kills in combat so I had an advantage, I managed to get both of my flayed ones stuck in but because his guys were so blobbed up I wasn't scoring any VP for the guys I killed and we ended up tying 0-0.
Third was against AdMech, who seem to have the best gun in the entire game in the arquebus. I got pretty solidly demolished again here, some really unlucky injury rolls in the first round made the whole thing spiral down.
My final game was against non-primaris Space Marines. Won this game by a landslide though I would mostly attribute it to really lucky rolls on my part; the very first declared shooting of the game was my sniper deathmark getting a mortal wound and an out of action result on his scout sniper. The rest of the game saw rolls a lot like that.
Overall I'd say that the Tesla Immortal is about as worthless as expected; even pumping as many resources into buffing him as I possibly could I got exactly one tesla proc the entire tournament. On the other hand RP was solid, I feel like I got a fair number of sixes. The Deathmarks, G Immortals, and Flayed Ones all performed their roles reasonably well, though Deathmarks are clearly weak in comparison to Skitarii Rangers (I think everyone's snipers are weak next to Rangers though so that's a wash).
The main thing I come out of that tournament thinking is that I REALLY wish we got access to lychguard. A scytheguard or two would have completely turned the tables on the primaris list in a way that the flayed ones were simply incapable of doing. I feel like just adding that datasheet would make Necrons a much better kill team faction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/05 09:11:40
If KT takes off as a competitive format I can totally see them adding more units to each faction (as well as new factions, eg. Sisters) as a way to update and attempt to balance the game next year.
skoffs wrote: If KT takes off as a competitive format I can totally see them adding more units to each faction (as well as new factions, eg. Sisters) as a way to update and attempt to balance the game next year.
New and existing models will be brought into the game when we start getting game Expansions e.g Killteam: Rouge Trader and the new nurgle units that got leaked weeks ago. GW said they want to support this as a tourney and all local GW shops have been sent a "tournament" package so they can run a 2 month campaign from Sept. to Novem. With prizes for playing, winning and participation. KT:RT is supposed to come out November/December time from sources I seen on Discord.
Arachnofiend wrote: Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Deathmark(Leader)
Deathmark(Sniper)
T Immortal (Comms)
Flayed One (Combat)
Flayed One
G Immortal
G Immortal
First game was against a guy who brought an entire list of Primaris Reivers. Got completely crushed, the Reivers totally outmatched my Flayed Ones in combat and went on to tag the rest of my models. He went on to go 4-0 and win the tournament so uh, Primaris are pretty good in this ruleset it seems.
Second was against Guard, and I'm still mad about it. It was the mission where you only score points for kills in combat so I had an advantage, I managed to get both of my flayed ones stuck in but because his guys were so blobbed up I wasn't scoring any VP for the guys I killed and we ended up tying 0-0.
Third was against AdMech, who seem to have the best gun in the entire game in the arquebus. I got pretty solidly demolished again here, some really unlucky injury rolls in the first round made the whole thing spiral down.
My final game was against non-primaris Space Marines. Won this game by a landslide though I would mostly attribute it to really lucky rolls on my part; the very first declared shooting of the game was my sniper deathmark getting a mortal wound and an out of action result on his scout sniper. The rest of the game saw rolls a lot like that.
Overall I'd say that the Tesla Immortal is about as worthless as expected; even pumping as many resources into buffing him as I possibly could I got exactly one tesla proc the entire tournament. On the other hand RP was solid, I feel like I got a fair number of sixes. The Deathmarks, G Immortals, and Flayed Ones all performed their roles reasonably well, though Deathmarks are clearly weak in comparison to Skitarii Rangers (I think everyone's snipers are weak next to Rangers though so that's a wash).
The main thing I come out of that tournament thinking is that I REALLY wish we got access to lychguard. A scytheguard or two would have completely turned the tables on the primaris list in a way that the flayed ones were simply incapable of doing. I feel like just adding that datasheet would make Necrons a much better kill team faction.
Shame it didn't go so well. But at least you (and we all for that matter) can learn from it. What would you have changed in your list (apart from the T. Immortal)? Are you going to change your playstyle in the future (more agressive, more defensive)?
Arachnofiend wrote: Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Were they not using Command Roster as you are supposed to per the Matched Play rulebook? Imo it's an integral part of MP and the game doesn't quite work without it, some armies can make TAC lists way easier than others.
Arachnofiend wrote: Went to the first Kill Team tournament at my store today and performed... well, pretty badly. Went 1-2-1 overall. Here's the list I brought:
Were they not using Command Roster as you are supposed to per the Matched Play rulebook? Imo it's an integral part of MP and the game doesn't quite work without it, some armies can make TAC lists way easier than others.
Hm...well, we know the truth on T-immortals now I guess.
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
@Doctoralex: Unfortunately due to our limited options there isn't much I feel I could change; the two games I lost badly I lost because I couldn't deal with 2-wound models (Primaris) and because I got significantly out-ranged (AdMech). I think we definitely need Deathmarks just to ensure our entire list isn't hitting on 5's in the first round but I really don't see what else I could have brought that would have done better against the Reivers. There are definitely things on the tactics side I could have improved on though, playing scared hurt me against AdMech and is part of the reason I got a tie against Guard.
@Requizen: No command roster, no. It wasn't a serious tournament, basically just the store trying to gauge interest; the next tournament they do will use the NOVA rules packet.
My boys fell really flat vs death guard. Plague Spitters and Plasma everywhere on marines that just don't die, plus some really rotten dice luck on my part.
Anyone match up vs DG and have tips?
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
iGuy91 wrote: My boys fell really flat vs death guard. Plague Spitters and Plasma everywhere on marines that just don't die, plus some really rotten dice luck on my part.
Anyone match up vs DG and have tips?
My game with DG was pretty successful. I had no losses, DG lost a guy with plasma from my shooting, after under the mindshakle of scarabs he shot his own melee specialist.
Although in general, only two of the five games I played proved to be successful. One victory over DG and one victory over GK (the opponent has one model left). I lost three games: Adeptus Mechanicus (KP), Chaos Spacemarins (for control of markers) and Necrons (hellishly unlucky on dice).
my roster:
G Immortal (Leader)
Deathmark(Sniper)
G Immortal (Comms)
Flayed One (Zealot)
Flayed One
Deathmark
G Immortal
So it looks like the most common iteration we're going to be seeing for Necron KTs is
3x Immortals
2x Deathmarks
2x Flayed Ones
...
but how well are the FOs honestly performing?
Is it worth bringing two, or should you spend the 2 points to promote one to a Warrior? (same save but gets to shoot)
I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
unitled wrote: I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
How does Zealot make Flayed Ones Tougher? It just boosts strength and attacks on the charge.
I'm strongly debating Running. The lack of AP on FO makes them seem to come up short. I'd almost rather just game plan that the enemy is going to try and get close to engage in melee.
x3 Gauss Immortals
x2 Deathmarks
x1 Flayed One
x1 Warrior
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
unitled wrote: I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
How does Zealot make Flayed Ones Tougher? It just boosts strength and attacks on the charge. I'm strongly debating Running. The lack of AP on FO makes them seem to come up short. I'd almost rather just game plan that the enemy is going to try and get close to engage in melee. x3 Gauss Immortals x2 Deathmarks x1 Flayed One x1 Warrior
Yep, that's the exact list I've got. It has a requisite Flayed One as melee defense, but having two FOs seems like you'd be left wanting for shooting. The Warrior probably won't be contributing a lot to the battle, but at least maybe he'll be ignored? (then he can sit on an objective and take pot shots, or maybe be played as meat shield for the more important guys). Have a feeling it's going to be the go-to for everyone (unless that 6 DM + 1 FO idea pans out after all)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/07 13:20:15
unitled wrote: I feel it's definitely worth having them in your roster, right? Against a pure shooty team you can probably stick with our slightly superior Gauss weapons, but having no melee potential at all for counter charges or screening feels like a bad move against the more melee related lists. Plus, the Zealot specialism makes a Flayed one *even more* unkillable than a regular Necron.
How does Zealot make Flayed Ones Tougher? It just boosts strength and attacks on the charge.
I'm strongly debating Running. The lack of AP on FO makes them seem to come up short. I'd almost rather just game plan that the enemy is going to try and get close to engage in melee.
x3 Gauss Immortals
x2 Deathmarks
x1 Flayed One
x1 Warrior
Sorry, I was talking just about campaign mode! As they level up they can get a 6+++ and a -1 to injury rolls.
Oooo Gotcha!
Yeah, so far I have yet to venture into campaign, but for matched play purposes, I am not sure they have a great place other than killing off cheap melee screens.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Those matches, about which I wrote, were just a campaign. In none of them Deathmarks did anything that would justify their cost and presence in the roster in the number of two. Even Flayed Ones proved to be more effective. I think to replace one Deathmark not a specialist on Immortal. Although it does not allow me to replace the second Flayed One on the Warrior. Zealot also proved to be not on the best side, if you take the specialist Flayed One, then you have to have Combat specialist, in this case it really can be a screen for other models and cut out the meat, which in our meta-make is surprisingly many.
Zealot doesn't seem worth it for flayed ones. You can already get them to S5 with a tactic, and when you can re-roll all wounds getting to 2+ to wound on t3 doesn't seem worth the investment. I think the more consistent benefit of Combat is superior in most cases.
Arachnofiend wrote: Zealot doesn't seem worth it for flayed ones. You can already get them to S5 with a tactic, and when you can re-roll all wounds getting to 2+ to wound on t3 doesn't seem worth the investment. I think the more consistent benefit of Combat is superior in most cases.
Why not both?
My first necron kill team will be two flayed ones (combat + zealot), immortal (comms), deathmark (leader), and three more immortals.
I didn't bother with a deathmark sniper, mainly because every other option puts out more damage, and is more points efficient. But, we'll see how effective the long-range support is after the harlequins slice me into neat metallic rings
Honestly. I wish I could fit more than 6 immortals in a list.
Wonder if x4 Gauss Immortals x3 Warriors would be any good...
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
I just have yet to actually have the Flayed Ones Pay off. They kind of suck.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Oh, roster-wise, I absolutely would keep both of them in my back pocket.
I feel the extra shooter might be able to maybe at least help us keep our immortals shooting vs choppy lists.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Though has anyone actually tried running a 6 Immortal list yet?
Like, are you hamstringing yourself by having less boots on the ground, or would having everyone with the best guns and best saves be worth giving up the 4 extra points?
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