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 BaconCatBug wrote:

Banville wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
9th edition will squat Old-marines. They will be index only at best.

I don't think it'll be that soon if they do it. Maybe two to three editions from now when Primaris have been fleshed out enough to function on their own without the Oldstartes support elements.

The issue there is that anyone with a large marine collection can very easily convert or play counts as with their stuff. They'll need a load of esoteric Primaris stuff to be released first in order to avoid that happening.

You say that like GW care about old players. GW's current business model is to attract 12 year olds using mummy's credit card who then quit after 3 weeks.

Because that's why GW's profits have skyrocketed. They're being solely supplied by a three-week binge of a horde of teenagers. Obviously.

My guess is the old marines will be done away with by a simple lore edit whereby Cawl finds a way to "Upgrade" all existing marines into Primaris, and they become the new "regular" marines all the same. Two editions from now, the whole primaris distinction will simply be a footnotes referencing the reinforcements Guilliman brought after fall of Cadia.

This is nothing but a range refresh, but they have to do it carefully as to not piss off the fans. And of course they have to incentivize people to buy the new stuff so t's bigger, better and shinier.

Karol wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Shorties aint going anywhere anytime soon.

But don't expect any new designs, ever, for hobbit marines.

Well that would mean GK are never going to get fixed, they don't have access to primaris as the only marine chapter. And GW seems to want to change rules for stuff with models only, preferably with new models.

The problem with re-scaling the marine line now, more so than last time around, is that the range is huge, so replacing it all is a similarly huge, and expensive, endeavor. Introducing the re-scaled guys as nu-marines gives them some space to pace out the releases and then eventually quietly retire the stunties once everyone is used to the idea that the Primaris guys are the new standard.

This, and the fact that AoS seem to have shown GW that while they are people who are all in on the new stuff no matter what it is, there is also a group of people that were willing to do black PR in FLGS for free, if primaris were a day one replacment of normal marines. It is too risky to try.

My friend had a fun "theory" about marines and primaris in 8th. He said that GW wants to keep them as flag ship, but also make them all feel bad to play, so when the time comes to bring new primaris let say bikers or assault jump dudes, the people who played those in 8th or maybe even 9th, are going to hate the normal marine version so much, they will welcome the primaris with open arms. He also joked that if GW suddenly made female GK, I would gobble them up if they had good rules, stupid fluff or not. And at least about the second thing he is right.

That sounds like the sort of thing I'd expect out of GW. Although if it is what they're up to I'd say they mucked it up, Primaris don't feel any more competitive than Oldstartes against the field.

 Orlanth wrote:

The trouble with this is while fluff attrition can occur the collections are immortal.

"So all the basic marines from chapter x were killed in battle? No. I have 200 on my shelf."

Which you would just play as Primaris Marines once they become the standard.

Some years back, when there was a lot of online discussion about GW focusing 'too heavily' on new players at the expense of veterans, a comment came out (possibly from one of GW's financials, possibly just a store manager's briefing, and presumably from the period before GW decided that market research was pointless) to the effect that the majority of new players only actually last a year or two, and of those that are left most only last 3-5 years. If that still holds true, then if they spend an edition focusing entirely on Primaris Marines and quietly shunting regular marine kits to the less-well-lit shelves under the stairs, by the time they release a new edition with updated fluff and Marine armies built entirely around Primaris Marines, those of us with old school marine armies will be largely insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

They could do the 'nice' thing and release 'legacy' lists to cater to those older collections... or we could just restructure our marine armies to fit into whatever a Primaris-only codex will look like by then and ignore the size difference the way we all ignored the size difference between RT-era beakies and 2nd ed marines.


Not saying it's not going to be irritating for those players with current marine collections... there's no way GW are going to continue supporting two separate Marine model lines for any longer than they have to.

 insaniak wrote:

Some years back, when there was a lot of online discussion about GW focusing 'too heavily' on new players at the expense of veterans, a comment came out (possibly from one of GW's financials, possibly just a store manager's briefing, and presumably from the period before GW decided that market research was pointless) to the effect that the majority of new players only actually last a year or two, and of those that are left most only last 3-5 years. If that still holds true, then if they spend an edition focusing entirely on Primaris Marines and quietly shunting regular marine kits to the less-well-lit shelves under the stairs, by the time they release a new edition with updated fluff and Marine armies built entirely around Primaris Marines, those of us with old school marine armies will be largely insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

They could do the 'nice' thing and release 'legacy' lists to cater to those older collections... or we could just restructure our marine armies to fit into whatever a Primaris-only codex will look like by then and ignore the size difference the way we all ignored the size difference between RT-era beakies and 2nd ed marines.

Yep. And speaking of RT beakies, you really don't see armies made out of them often these days, and not even armies made out of 2nd ed metals and monopose plastics. It will be like that in the future with the current minimarines, most people will either drop out or move into the Primaris, the old marines becoming curios of the past era.

It seems weird that they can justify throwing out so much of the units, vehicles, and doctrines of proper Space Marines because they want to market these Primaris Marines. Assault Marines, Scouts, Devastators, Terminators, Rhinos, Land Raiders, Speeders, Bikes, Drop Pods, etc plus all the specialist variants like Sternguard, Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard, Blood/Sky/Swift Claws, Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, etc get pushed into the corner because of marketing. Call it over reacting if you want but the direction things are heading and the silence by GW on the matter points towards this being the reality at some point in the next few years. I just don't understand how most people seem to be cool with the changes when I thought Space Marines where the #1 faction and yet they are the faction in the most danger of having their established lore and model line thrown out the window.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Banville wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
9th edition will squat Old-marines. They will be index only at best.

I don't think it'll be that soon if they do it. Maybe two to three editions from now when Primaris have been fleshed out enough to function on their own without the Oldstartes support elements.

The issue there is that anyone with a large marine collection can very easily convert or play counts as with their stuff. They'll need a load of esoteric Primaris stuff to be released first in order to avoid that happening.

You say that like GW care about old players. GW's current business model is to attract 12 year olds using mummy's credit card who then quit after 3 weeks.

prove it, provide some sort of evidance they "don't care about the old players" because I can prove lots to the contrary.

Evidance to the contrary of your assertation:

1: the various detachments in 8th edition, all are deliberatly designed so that anyone who fielded a formation in 7th would still be able to use those units.
2: the wealth of new additions to the line. these, save primaris marines, aren't new things but expansions of ideas that have been around for ages. Genestealer cults, Admech, etc... all are things long time fans wanted to see,
3: their engagement with the community.

I'm not saying GW isn't eprsuing new customers (they are and should be, anyone who thinks a company shouldn't be chasing new customers is a moron) but they're hardly forgetting about the current ones

Gentlemen, please.

"Stay... on... target"
"We're too close!"
"Stay... on... target!"
"Boom!"

 Vankraken wrote:
It seems weird that they can justify throwing out so much of the units, vehicles, and doctrines of proper Space Marines because they want to market these Primaris Marines. Assault Marines, Scouts, Devastators, Terminators, Rhinos, Land Raiders, Speeders, Bikes, Drop Pods, etc plus all the specialist variants like Sternguard, Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard, Blood/Sky/Swift Claws, Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, etc get pushed into the corner because of marketing. Call it over reacting if you want but the direction things are heading and the silence by GW on the matter points towards this being the reality at some point in the next few years. I just don't understand how most people seem to be cool with the changes when I thought Space Marines where the #1 faction and yet they are the faction in the most danger of having their established lore and model line thrown out the window.

Molds wear and eventually need to be retired. That is how the old Marine models will die off: not with a bang but with a wimper and a "No Longer Available" image on the website.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
It seems weird that they can justify throwing out so much of the units, vehicles, and doctrines of proper Space Marines because they want to market these Primaris Marines. Assault Marines, Scouts, Devastators, Terminators, Rhinos, Land Raiders, Speeders, Bikes, Drop Pods, etc plus all the specialist variants like Sternguard, Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard, Blood/Sky/Swift Claws, Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, etc get pushed into the corner because of marketing. Call it over reacting if you want but the direction things are heading and the silence by GW on the matter points towards this being the reality at some point in the next few years. I just don't understand how most people seem to be cool with the changes when I thought Space Marines where the #1 faction and yet they are the faction in the most danger of having their established lore and model line thrown out the window.

Molds wear and eventually need to be retired. That is how the old Marine models will die off: not with a bang but with a wimper and a "No Longer Available" image on the website.

Forgive me for my poor ability to convey this message accurately but let me give it a try. Why does it seem like very few people are bothered that GW is using product lines and marketing as justification for changes in the fluff. And not just the "oh we always had this" type stuff like Grav Weapons, Centurion Armor, or GK baby walkers but this massive new rework of how Space Marines are suppose to be in the fluff which makes basically the entire old way of doing things obsolete. So not only is the fluff being changed but its setting course for the entire product line to be replaced with all new models so GW can get people who play Space Marines to replace their old stuff and stop the used market from cutting into their sales. It just seems to me that being ok with phasing out an entire flagship line to be completely replaced with new models that aren't reverse compatible sends the message to GW that we as consumers are ok with our plastic figures having a shelf life and planned obsolescence.

 Vankraken wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
It seems weird that they can justify throwing out so much of the units, vehicles, and doctrines of proper Space Marines because they want to market these Primaris Marines. Assault Marines, Scouts, Devastators, Terminators, Rhinos, Land Raiders, Speeders, Bikes, Drop Pods, etc plus all the specialist variants like Sternguard, Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard, Blood/Sky/Swift Claws, Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, etc get pushed into the corner because of marketing. Call it over reacting if you want but the direction things are heading and the silence by GW on the matter points towards this being the reality at some point in the next few years. I just don't understand how most people seem to be cool with the changes when I thought Space Marines where the #1 faction and yet they are the faction in the most danger of having their established lore and model line thrown out the window.

Molds wear and eventually need to be retired. That is how the old Marine models will die off: not with a bang but with a wimper and a "No Longer Available" image on the website.

Forgive me for my poor ability to convey this message accurately but let me give it a try. Why does it seem like very few people are bothered that GW is using product lines and marketing as justification for changes in the fluff. And not just the "oh we always had this" type stuff like Grav Weapons, Centurion Armor, or GK baby walkers but this massive new rework of how Space Marines are suppose to be in the fluff which makes basically the entire old way of doing things obsolete. So not only is the fluff being changed but its setting course for the entire product line to be replaced with all new models so GW can get people who play Space Marines to replace their old stuff and stop the used market from cutting into their sales. It just seems to me that being ok with phasing out an entire flagship line to be completely replaced with new models that aren't reverse compatible sends the message to GW that we as consumers are ok with our plastic figures having a shelf life and planned obsolescence.

GW has quietly been phasing stuff out for years now. Let's not pretend like this is suddenly a new thing now that the main Marine line is facing it.

That said, as each old-startes faces retirement we'll likely see a Primaris equiv of sorts to fill its shoes.

Edit: removed to encourage further discussion.

Several people seem to be thinking that Primaris won't replace the old marines because they don't have all the kits covered.

However, I get the impression they never will be. Marines have dozens of unit types and I'm betting in the future we will start to see some of those options quietly retire - Centurions, Thunderfire cannons, Sternguard, etc. Marines will become a simplier line - fewer options, fewer unit types - for SKU reasons, mostly.

I don't know if I'm expressing myself clearly, but I expect the marine line will contract as time passes, not that Primaris units will be expanded.

 Stormonu wrote:
Several people seem to be thinking that Primaris won't replace the old marines because they don't have all the kits covered.

However, I get the impression they never will be. Marines have dozens of unit types and I'm betting in the future we will start to see some of those options quietly retire - Centurions, Thunderfire cannons, Sternguard, etc. Marines will become a simplier line - fewer options, fewer unit types - for SKU reasons, mostly.

I don't know if I'm expressing myself clearly, but I expect the marine line will contract as time passes, not that Primaris units will be expanded.

I can definitely see that. The cynical part of me wants to say it'd be a way to sell allies, but it's likely more to focus what Space Marines should be like and cut down the number of units into a handful per slot.

 Vankraken wrote:
Why does it seem like very few people are bothered that GW is using product lines and marketing as justification for changes in the fluff.

Because that's how it's always worked?

The fluff is ultimately nothing more than a vehicle for selling miniatures. As invested in it as we may be. it's always been susceptible to changes at the whims of the designers if they feel it's better moved in a different direction.

...but its setting course for the entire product line to be replaced with all new models so GW can get people who play Space Marines to replace their old stuff and stop the used market from cutting into their sales.

Except, again, it's less (IMO) to get current players to replace their stuff as it is to entice more new players with 'better' models and a less-confusing product range.

 insaniak wrote:
there's no way GW are going to continue supporting two separate Marine model lines for any longer than they have to.

Arguably they've been supporting something like 6 marine model lines. There are a crap ton of marine kits, I assume because they seem to sell. Presumably they'll do what the market will bear.

I'd be really interested to know how Primaris sell compared to traditional marines these days.

 Vankraken wrote:


Forgive me for my poor ability to convey this message accurately but let me give it a try. Why does it seem like very few people are bothered that GW is using product lines and marketing as justification for changes in the fluff. And not just the "oh we always had this" type stuff like Grav Weapons, Centurion Armor, or GK baby walkers but this massive new rework of how Space Marines are suppose to be in the fluff which makes basically the entire old way of doing things obsolete. So not only is the fluff being changed but its setting course for the entire product line to be replaced with all new models so GW can get people who play Space Marines to replace their old stuff and stop the used market from cutting into their sales. It just seems to me that being ok with phasing out an entire flagship line to be completely replaced with new models that aren't reverse compatible sends the message to GW that we as consumers are ok with our plastic figures having a shelf life and planned obsolescence.

It has got that bad for me that we are already at the point where absolutely anything can happen in the fluff and it wouldn't seem out of place, I just cant get on with it anymore.
I think its inevitable normal marines will go eventually but it will be years yet, some of the marine kits are not that old.

 Grimtuff wrote:
*Resets the clock*

This is the new Squats/SoBs isn't it?

Not quite; the Squats/SoBs threads could, potentially, be proven to be incorrect.

The Marine Replacement threads can never be proven wrong because as long as normal Marines have not been replaced there is a possibility that they will be replaced in the future. All that can happen is that the threads be proven correct or 40k somehow dies.

 Vankraken wrote:


Forgive me for my poor ability to convey this message accurately but let me give it a try. Why does it seem like very few people are bothered that GW is using product lines and marketing as justification for changes in the fluff. And not just the "oh we always had this" type stuff like Grav Weapons, Centurion Armor, or GK baby walkers but this massive new rework of how Space Marines are suppose to be in the fluff which makes basically the entire old way of doing things obsolete. So not only is the fluff being changed but its setting course for the entire product line to be replaced with all new models so GW can get people who play Space Marines to replace their old stuff and stop the used market from cutting into their sales. It just seems to me that being ok with phasing out an entire flagship line to be completely replaced with new models that aren't reverse compatible sends the message to GW that we as consumers are ok with our plastic figures having a shelf life and planned obsolescence.

Well, times and manufacturing has changed since the original days when marines were released. A similar example can be seen by another product that's nearly as old - console games. Look at something like Zelda. When the original game came out, the quality and ability to things with the game was very limited - visually as well as story-wise. Thirty years on, while there are those who still love the original, you couldn't just release a 8-bit follow-on game and expect it would do nearly as well as Breath of the Wild. I think 40K has some of the same problems. The old lore and models are fine for the folks who love them - but those people also probably have more than enough copies that they won't buy more. If you want to sell new models and keep interest high, they need to be up to today's manufacturing standards - both the physical models and the lore to go with them (though just having read the Gathering Storm, the prose in those books is awful and generic - like a badly summarized story from a weird hybridized 1st person/3rd person view).

Other times, the old lore simply gets restrictive, and to squeeze something new in, you've got to be able to shake some of the old baggage off. Unfortunately, it's going to tick someone off - because whatever just invalidated was what you loved best (I fall into that category with BSG, Star Trek & Star Wars - the reboots/re-imagining have somewhat left me cold). But it's got to be done at some point if you don't want your IP moldering in some closet somewhere, unable to make money because it's become passe or predictable.

Besides, GW has retconned a lot of lore over the years; we're rather used to it. Both Orks and Tyranids have had complete overhauls of their model line in previous editions, as has Dark Eldar. Just as an example, Zoanthropes used to walk around and look like Warriors with big craniums. Then there is the old screamer-killer/carnifex.

Well, I think GW wanted to advance with the game by replacing Space Marines from the dark age by Primaris Marines who mark a new age: renaissance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance

 Insectum7 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
there's no way GW are going to continue supporting two separate Marine model lines for any longer than they have to.

Arguably they've been supporting something like 6 marine model lines. There are a crap ton of marine kits, I assume because they seem to sell. Presumably they'll do what the market will bear.

I'd be really interested to know how Primaris sell compared to traditional marines these days.

I've bought more regular marines over primaris since 8th dropped, but only due to liking the older models and kitbashing them with primaris. I love my hellblasters with mkIII pauldrons and Salamanders heads

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
It seems weird that they can justify throwing out so much of the units, vehicles, and doctrines of proper Space Marines because they want to market these Primaris Marines. Assault Marines, Scouts, Devastators, Terminators, Rhinos, Land Raiders, Speeders, Bikes, Drop Pods, etc plus all the specialist variants like Sternguard, Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard, Blood/Sky/Swift Claws, Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, etc get pushed into the corner because of marketing. Call it over reacting if you want but the direction things are heading and the silence by GW on the matter points towards this being the reality at some point in the next few years. I just don't understand how most people seem to be cool with the changes when I thought Space Marines where the #1 faction and yet they are the faction in the most danger of having their established lore and model line thrown out the window.

Molds wear and eventually need to be retired. That is how the old Marine models will die off: not with a bang but with a wimper and a "No Longer Available" image on the website.

Forgive me for my poor ability to convey this message accurately but let me give it a try. Why does it seem like very few people are bothered that GW is using product lines and marketing as justification for changes in the fluff. And not just the "oh we always had this" type stuff like Grav Weapons, Centurion Armor, or GK baby walkers but this massive new rework of how Space Marines are suppose to be in the fluff which makes basically the entire old way of doing things obsolete. So not only is the fluff being changed but its setting course for the entire product line to be replaced with all new models so GW can get people who play Space Marines to replace their old stuff and stop the used market from cutting into their sales. It just seems to me that being ok with phasing out an entire flagship line to be completely replaced with new models that aren't reverse compatible sends the message to GW that we as consumers are ok with our plastic figures having a shelf life and planned obsolescence.

GW has quietly been phasing stuff out for years now. Let's not pretend like this is suddenly a new thing now that the main Marine line is facing it.

That said, as each old-startes faces retirement we'll likely see a Primaris equiv of sorts to fill its shoes.

I've been wargaming for long enough to remember a time before GW sold any plastic kits at all, and pretty much every option in the Oldstartes line is bigger and (mostly) better looking than it was when I started.

Primaris feels different though. GW has never been shy about replacing a kit or vastly changing a unit's available options from one edition to the next, if they intended to replace the old marine kits with the new Primaris line I would have expected them to rip the bandaid off all at once. If that meant we all had to reorganize our old Tac and Devastator squads into Intercessor and Hellblaster squads and do some surgury to turn Assault Marines into Inceptors and Termies into Aggressors in order to keep using them so be it.

Trying to make Primaris Marines "different" from normal Marines is the mistake, in my opinion. We'd all have probably been fine if they'd said "these are the new Space Marines, they don't replace your existing models, and the "buy new stuff" buffs are going to be applied to Space Marines in general, but we hope you'll buy the new ones because they're awesome-looking!", but instead they've decided the Space Marines need to be two different Codexes badly stitched together where each half has a bit of what's needed to make the army work (Primaris have the statlines, old-Marines have the equipment) and the result is a bizarrely ineffectual schizoid Frankenstein of a book that doesn't work very well and has way too many different unit entries.

I find, particularly on dakka, the people who refuse to acknowledge that old marines will be discontinued are people who seem to read that as "GW will cancel the full Space Marine line in six months!" ---- which is something NOBODY has said.

Reality:
-Outside of the occasional special character, and maybe a few chapter specific units, GW will not produce normal Space Marine kits in the future (exception: see "Escape route" below)
-All future Space Marine kits will be Primaris or similarly new units.
-Eventually the Primaris range will cover all of the areas the current Space Marine kits cover.
-This...however, is a 10-15 year plan. Not 18 months.
-Rules for old Space Marine units will stick around for 10-15-20 years, but the model line will disappear slowly but surely as kits age and are retired.
-More "fringe" low selling kits, and resin figures are more likely to disappear sooner.

It's just business. GW knows that Space Marines are their bread and butter, and despite older players thinking otherwise - new players like Primaris just fine, and loads of new 8th edition players are being introduced to Primaris as the standard Space Marine option. They were going to revamp the Space Marine model line anyway - been a long time for things like Tactical Squads, Terminators, Bikes, etc. There's zero chance GW is going to re-do these with full kit releases instead of Primaris alternatives. Not gonna happen. Also, notice that when possible the newer GW kits are designed to be far less 3rd-party friendly. No more simple torso/leg/arm/head assembly, but more bizarre swoopy assembly lines, etc. This is all simple GW business planning.

In five years time, you'll have 30-40 new marine Primaris influenced kits, and the remaining Space Marine plastic kits will be viewed as old, out of date, etc. If GW is smart they'll also slowly turn the rules in favour of Primaris and eventually the "need" for old marine models will fade, and the sales will drop enough to justify axing kits. The rules for them will probably be around for a long time - GW isn't stupid, they know people have amassed gigantic armies of current Space Marines. They're already considering the next wave of gamers though.

The escape route:
-GW has an ace up their sleeve, which they "could" push. They have a small range of Horus Heresy plastics - which tons of people have been using for 40K models as well. If they expanded this line a bit, they could actually use it as an escape route for current players who refuse to buy Primaris...they have some new "old marine" sized kits which are hidden under the Horus Heresy banner. If Primaris starts to tank, they could shift a few more plastic kits under the Horus Heresy banner and keep their business plan appearing the same.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Trying to make Primaris Marines "different" from normal Marines is the mistake, in my opinion. We'd all have probably been fine if they'd said "these are the new Space Marines, they don't replace your existing models, and the "buy new stuff" buffs are going to be applied to Space Marines in general, but we hope you'll buy the new ones because they're awesome-looking!", but instead they've decided the Space Marines need to be two different Codexes badly stitched together where each half has a bit of what's needed to make the army work (Primaris have the statlines, old-Marines have the equipment) and the result is a bizarrely ineffectual schizoid Frankenstein of a book that doesn't work very well and has way too many different unit entries.

Exactly. Instead of releasing new, bigger space marines, they de-valued the existing marines. Now, I think complaints about marine proportions are well overblown, and that instead of enlarging them other races needed to be shrunk down a bit, but GW could have done this without angering everyone who likes space marine lore. But they didn't, because GW has zero faith that their products will actually sell if they don't use manipulative tactics, as they have with primaris being super-duper marines who conveniently can't ride in "normal" astartes vehicles.

Blastaar wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Trying to make Primaris Marines "different" from normal Marines is the mistake, in my opinion. We'd all have probably been fine if they'd said "these are the new Space Marines, they don't replace your existing models, and the "buy new stuff" buffs are going to be applied to Space Marines in general, but we hope you'll buy the new ones because they're awesome-looking!", but instead they've decided the Space Marines need to be two different Codexes badly stitched together where each half has a bit of what's needed to make the army work (Primaris have the statlines, old-Marines have the equipment) and the result is a bizarrely ineffectual schizoid Frankenstein of a book that doesn't work very well and has way too many different unit entries.

Exactly. Instead of releasing new, bigger space marines, they de-valued the existing marines. Now, I think complaints about marine proportions are well overblown, and that instead of enlarging them other races needed to be shrunk down a bit, but GW could have done this without angering everyone who likes space marine lore. But they didn't, because GW has zero faith that their products will actually sell if they don't use manipulative tactics, as they have with primaris being super-duper marines who conveniently can't ride in "normal" astartes vehicles.

They didn't "anger[] everyone who likes space marine lore".

I'm big into the lore and also love Primaris. It's not mutually exclusive.

This discussion has been had a thousand times and the answer is no, primaris are not going to replace space marines, and if they are, it will not be for many many years.

I think we saw Adeptus Astartes for copy write perposes.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 insaniak wrote:


Fluff-wise, I expect that they'll continue to advance the story, with the older marines slowly whittled down from normal attrition and their ranks being refilled with Primaris, until it reaches a point where there's just not enough of the old guys left to be relevant.

The trouble with this is while fluff attrition can occur the collections are immortal.

"So all the basic marines from chapter x were killed in battle? No. I have 200 on my shelf."

Then you're playing the army at an earlier point in it's history.

Didnt work that way for squats.

 Orlanth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

 insaniak wrote:


Fluff-wise, I expect that they'll continue to advance the story, with the older marines slowly whittled down from normal attrition and their ranks being refilled with Primaris, until it reaches a point where there's just not enough of the old guys left to be relevant.

The trouble with this is while fluff attrition can occur the collections are immortal.

"So all the basic marines from chapter x were killed in battle? No. I have 200 on my shelf."

Then you're playing the army at an earlier point in it's history.

Didnt work that way for squats.

Unlike the Squats the old Marines at least have something to replace them you can field the old models as.