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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mr. Burning wrote:
FW do use PU resin.




My bad then. I really thought it was epoxy given the shrinkage they seem to have as well as the mold release...
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

morgoth wrote:

My bad then. I really thought it was epoxy given the shrinkage they seem to have as well as the mold release...

Polyurethane shrinks, although how much depends on the specific compound used. I suspect FW use a very rapid setting product.

And mould release is always a good idea for prolonging mould life, even if it's sometimes not strictly necessary.

 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Insaniak is right.
It's not JUST epoxy resins that shrink - quite a few of the faster cure polyurethane resins (<30 minute pot life) also shrink a bit.

Mould release may not be strictly necessary, but as insaniak also said, it will prolong the life of the mould. There are certain chemical interactions with the silicone of the moulds and the curing resins that will take their toll on the moulds over time (especially with the vulcanised moulds).
Mould release may mean the difference between 50 casts out of a mould and 80-90 casts. It also reduces surface bubbling on the walls of the mould.

Most of those mould releases should come off with warm soapy water but the FW mould release sticks to resin like babygak to a blanket. I use talc for my mould release (but I can also use it as a 'filler').

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Stormonu wrote:

Mantic's Warpath and Warlord's Gates of Antares might have some models worth taking a look at, though the aesthetic may stray what you're looking for. Most of their troops are in plastic, though. I've purchased their Forge Fathers to try and build a 40K squat army, and Warlord's Concord faction would make excellent G'uvesa (Tau human allied guardsmen basically).


Warpath's GCPS faction makes for extremely affordable guard bodies. My only beef is that their heavy weapon teams are metal, but when you're spending 1/5th what you otherwise would I'm not too picky about it.
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

And honestly, the Warpath GCPS models LOOK far better than the IG models too. Way cheaper, way nicer looking, and there are a ton of options. I just sold a large army of them because I'd never get to work on them, but they were NICE!

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 timetowaste85 wrote:
And honestly, the Warpath GCPS models LOOK far better than the IG models too. Way cheaper, way nicer looking, and there are a ton of options. I just sold a large army of them because I'd never get to work on them, but they were NICE!


For sure, go for the closed face helmets and you can get your cannon fodder looking nearly as badass as stock GW elite troops. Being able to avoid Guardsman Angry McDerpface is a definite plus.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




 chromedog wrote:
Insaniak is right.
It's not JUST epoxy resins that shrink - quite a few of the faster cure polyurethane resins (<30 minute pot life) also shrink a bit.

Mould release may not be strictly necessary, but as insaniak also said, it will prolong the life of the mould. There are certain chemical interactions with the silicone of the moulds and the curing resins that will take their toll on the moulds over time (especially with the vulcanised moulds).
Mould release may mean the difference between 50 casts out of a mould and 80-90 casts. It also reduces surface bubbling on the walls of the mould.

Most of those mould releases should come off with warm soapy water but the FW mould release sticks to resin like babygak to a blanket. I use talc for my mould release (but I can also use it as a 'filler').


That's where IMO the FW method sucks.

They're using a very fast setting Polyurethane, which puts a lot more stress on the mold and helps getting terrible warping problems.
And to compensate, they add a horrible mold release agent, which is likely responsible for their chinese-level surface texture, is impossible to remove, and probably doesn't help mold life that much.

In a world where silicone and resin are quite affordable, where molds don't have to be 100% silicone, I don't see why anyone would use mold release for silicone X polyurethane miniatures.

Why lose some casting resolution and make the process more complex to save a few cents per pull?

Same goes for the price of pressure tanks, and not keeping the mold in the cooker until it's 100% done, and other things that result in worse quality - why not if you're a chinese recaster going for lowest unit cost possible, but it doesn't make sense if your daily wage is above 30 bucks.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Sterling191 wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:

Mantic's Warpath and Warlord's Gates of Antares might have some models worth taking a look at, though the aesthetic may stray what you're looking for. Most of their troops are in plastic, though. I've purchased their Forge Fathers to try and build a 40K squat army, and Warlord's Concord faction would make excellent G'uvesa (Tau human allied guardsmen basically).


Warpath's GCPS faction makes for extremely affordable guard bodies. My only beef is that their heavy weapon teams are metal, but when you're spending 1/5th what you otherwise would I'm not too picky about it.


One of the benefits of the GCPS kit being such a great "generic sci fi troops" kit is that you can mix and match it with other ranges without it feeling off. For example, you can give them plastic enforcer dogbots with heavy weapons, plastic Dreamforge mules converted to have heavy weapons, PVC Sedition Wars drones/micro hover tanks as heavy weapons, Anvil Industry's resin treaded drones with heavy weapons, etc., and they all "work" with the GCPS (although maybe not with each other).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/22 16:06:35


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

One of the benefits of the GCPS kit being such a great "generic sci fi troops" kit is that you can mix and match it with other ranges without it feeling off. For example, you can give them plastic enforcer dogbots with heavy weapons, plastic Dreamforge mules converted to have heavy weapons, PVC Sedition Wars drones/micro hover tanks as heavy weapons, Anvil Industry's resin treaded drones with heavy weapons, etc., and they all "work" with the GCPS (although maybe not with each other).


Hadn't considered the doggo bots as HW teams, but its bloody brilliant. I have several lying around since I use the non power armored Enforcers as Elysians. That may have just solved my fire support conundrum.

Cheers my friend!
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Ellicott City, MD

morgoth wrote:
 chromedog wrote:
Insaniak is right.
It's not JUST epoxy resins that shrink - quite a few of the faster cure polyurethane resins (<30 minute pot life) also shrink a bit.

Mould release may not be strictly necessary, but as insaniak also said, it will prolong the life of the mould. There are certain chemical interactions with the silicone of the moulds and the curing resins that will take their toll on the moulds over time (especially with the vulcanised moulds).
Mould release may mean the difference between 50 casts out of a mould and 80-90 casts. It also reduces surface bubbling on the walls of the mould.

Most of those mould releases should come off with warm soapy water but the FW mould release sticks to resin like babygak to a blanket. I use talc for my mould release (but I can also use it as a 'filler').


That's where IMO the FW method sucks.

They're using a very fast setting Polyurethane, which puts a lot more stress on the mold and helps getting terrible warping problems.
And to compensate, they add a horrible mold release agent, which is likely responsible for their chinese-level surface texture, is impossible to remove, and probably doesn't help mold life that much.

In a world where silicone and resin are quite affordable, where molds don't have to be 100% silicone, I don't see why anyone would use mold release for silicone X polyurethane miniatures.

Why lose some casting resolution and make the process more complex to save a few cents per pull?

Same goes for the price of pressure tanks, and not keeping the mold in the cooker until it's 100% done, and other things that result in worse quality - why not if you're a chinese recaster going for lowest unit cost possible, but it doesn't make sense if your daily wage is above 30 bucks.


These are all excellent reasons why every FW recast I have ever seen has been better quality than most of my actual FW stuff.

Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Most smaller companies manufacture in resin because the cost of setting up hard plastic molds is so exorbitant that you need to be selling truckloads of the models to turn a profit. That's why GW still has so many things in finecast.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






The Necromunda models I've had from Forge World have all had lovely smooth surfaces. The "consistency" of the stuff when you carve into it is nice too; the same stuff they used for Finecast, but not spin-cast, I think.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






I was favorably impressed with the resin used in the Mantic Vanguard models - and they put in plenty of venting, so the models need a fair amount of cleaning, but the molds filled completely, with no bubbles.

No noticeable greasiness, and the material is not brittle - even the sheeting along the mold lines needs a knife to remove, and does not just break away when brushed.

Nice detail, and solid enough for gaming.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
 
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