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On topic, unless you can track him down at his local GW, which he used to visit, I doubt you'll be able to directly contact him.

Even if you can or could, I further doubt that he can give you any kind of conclusive answer. He's likely tied down to non-disclosure agreements, probably doesn't even know the answer himself, and might not even say if he did and could tell you.

You can't just expect to be able to contact and get answers from random people - there are so many factors that can affect what they can, or even want, to disclose. The best answer I can give has been said before: keep an eye on the Black Library updates, follow them on Twitter, Warhammer Community, etc etc.

On the topic of Perpetuals, with everything that 40k is, to suggest that Perpetuals jump the shark ignores plenty of other "questionable" material, some of which is old and respected lore. If you think it's executed badly, fair enough, but if the concept itself bothers you, you're welcome to that, but it's hardly the worst thing that's been added.

The Perpetuals are hardly the most ridiculous thing in 40k. Perpetuals can be put down for good.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
On topic, unless you can track him down at his local GW, which he used to visit, I doubt you'll be able to directly contact him.

Even if you can or could, I further doubt that he can give you any kind of conclusive answer. He's likely tied down to non-disclosure agreements, probably doesn't even know the answer himself, and might not even say if he did and could tell you.

You can't just expect to be able to contact and get answers from random people - there are so many factors that can affect what they can, or even want, to disclose. The best answer I can give has been said before: keep an eye on the Black Library updates, follow them on Twitter, Warhammer Community, etc etc.

On the topic of Perpetuals, with everything that 40k is, to suggest that Perpetuals jump the shark ignores plenty of other "questionable" material, some of which is old and respected lore. If you think it's executed badly, fair enough, but if the concept itself bothers you, you're welcome to that, but it's hardly the worst thing that's been added.

It’s not that they are re the silliest things in 40k, it’s more that they are very out of character for 40k. It was always grimdark humanity against the odds. Even the super human marines were up against it. Immortal know it alls who have been at every major historic event is just not right for the setting. And they don’t add anything. They are just a plot divide in BL HH books. It’s a shame.

A lot things in 40k don't add anything to the lore. And the Perpetuals don't know everything. They just know more about human history than most. They weren't around during the Dinosaurs (for Perpetuals like Damon Prytanis), they weren't around when life just began on Earth, they were not even around before humanity.

When ever someone writes something I guess, can't wait for more perpetual novels.

Onething123456 wrote:
A lot things in 40k don't add anything to the lore. And the Perpetuals don't know everything. They just know more about human history than most. They weren't around during the Dinosaurs (for Perpetuals like Damon Prytanis), they weren't around when life just began on Earth, they were not even around before humanity.

The story was fine without them. They have added nothing to the 40k setting. Nothing at all. They are a set of plot tools used in a series of novels set 10000 years before. It’s just all too marvel for me. All the important people in the HH BL version of the tale are super duper humans who can’t die and things. It devalues the whole story of humanity that the key players weren’t really human. Even the marines and primarchs had an element of humanity to them and the bits of humanity they had lost made them more tragic. Shoving highlander in there is just a lazy way to tie in events.

Andykp wrote:It’s not that they are re the silliest things in 40k, it’s more that they are very out of character for 40k. It was always grimdark humanity against the odds. Even the super human marines were up against it. Immortal know it alls who have been at every major historic event is just not right for the setting. And they don’t add anything. They are just a plot divide in BL HH books. It’s a shame.

I don't see what they take away either.

They might be immortal, but I don't see Perpetuals doing things SMs can't (aside from the whole immortal things). They're not stronger, they don't have the same political influence as a Marine or Primarch. They actually function really well as a lens for the reader, and grant us insight in things that other character could not.

Pius, for example, gives us a good insight into how humanity has changed. He compares his previous lives to the current, and acts as a humanising anchor in the story. Yes, a regular Guardsman can fulfil that too, but Pius gives us a consistent character who can make informed opinions as to the changes humanity has been through.

I don't see how having characters who can make long-term comparisons for the reader's benefit is bad.

The story was fine without them. They have added nothing to the 40k setting. Nothing at all. They are a set of plot tools used in a series of novels set 10000 years before. It’s just all too marvel for me. All the important people in the HH BL version of the tale are super duper humans who can’t die and things. It devalues the whole story of humanity that the key players weren’t really human. Even the marines and primarchs had an element of humanity to them and the bits of humanity they had lost made them more tragic. Shoving highlander in there is just a lazy way to tie in events.

You can say that things were fine without them, which I won't contest, but I believe that they don't cheapen or lessen the setting too.

Just because the Perps are immortal doesn't make them less human. They still have human perception, human physical attributes, human desires and beliefs. They've just been around longer. Again, poorly written Perpetuals are a problem, but that's because they're poorly written. Ones like Pius, who seem like genuine people, are good, in my opinion.

Haven't I said Perpetuals can be put down for good?

Onething123456 wrote:
Haven't I said Perpetuals can be put down for good?

Let's do so quickly and never mention them again!

Don't ignore the Perpetuals as proof just because you hate them. And what's so bad about the Perpetuals? No one has given a reason other than "they don't add anything." There are many things more "ridiculous" than the Perpetuals in 40k.

Onething123456 wrote:
Haven't I said Perpetuals can be put down for good?

Except Bile's experiments in Primogenitor dispute that.

Oh, look at that now, as discussion can take place. Whodv'e thunk it?

Vulkan's Perpetual immortality was removed by Fulgurite. So you are wrong.

Onething123456 wrote:
Vulkan's Perpetual immortality was removed by Fulgurite. So you are wrong.

No, I'm not.

One author says one thing. Another says something else. How many times do we have to drill this into your thick skull that that does not make someone wrong?

You mind giving me a quote for Bile? And what about Perpetual Oll Persson saying Chaos can perma kill Perpetuals? You don't have to drill, because I don't believe you.

Why don't you go read it yourself? Just go on Amazon and find it like with every other book.

Give us a link too.

I'm not going to waste my time waiting weeks for it to be sent to my house. Prove what you said about Primogenitor with a quote, or keep quiet.

Bile performed several scientific experiments on one called Mordrac (who is simply Count Mordrek the Damned reappearing as the Castellan of Sublime, a planet o the edge of the EoT). Bile threw him into a fething sun, just to see how much of him needed to be left to have him regenerate. He dissolved him in acid, yet he still returned.

Mordrac is not specifically named as a Perpetual, but it's obvious that that's what the author have reinvented this character as. Bile has scientific data. There is only one ultra rare maguffin that disputes this data.
Are you going to argue with someone (okay, they're fictitious, but the methods are utterly real) who has collected scientific data on a topic?

So? Vulkan came back to life from similar things like Mordrek. And did Bile EVER try to remove his immortality instead of killing him in ways Vulkan has already died? Fulgurite can remove Perpetual immortality. Chaos can kill a Perpetual for good, as Perpetual Oll Persson said.

Onething123456 wrote:
So? Vulkan came back to life from similar things like Mordrek. And did Bile EVER try to remove his immortality instead of killing him in ways Vulkan has already died? Fulgurite can remove Perpetual immortality. Chaos can kill a Perpetual for good, as Perpetual Oll Persson said.

See? What is the fething point in having a discussion with you when you just spout out statements like that?

It's implied Bile collected a load of data on what exactly was needed to kill him and he found nothing. Bile had no idea he could "remove" his immortality as HE IS NOT OMNISCIENT AND HE IS NOT AWARE OF A SUPER-RARE MAGUFFIN THAT PROBABLY ONLY A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE IN THE GALAXY KNOW ABOUT!


Clear enough for you?

One things got a point on this, just because perpetuals can be killed doesn't make it easy most referances to it suggest that it requires some special sorcery. I FULLY expect when the Emperor vs Horus show down occurs for Perrson to be PERMAKILLED by Horus, specificly to eistablish both to us, and the Emperor, that the Emperor is in Mortal danger. In short I expect Persson to effectively be used as something of a star trek red shirt. we know who he is, we know what he can do, we know he can't via most means die. and thus when we see him TRUELY die, that'll play things up, in fact it fits perfectly into the narrative of the emperor suddenly realizing he can't just feth around, because Horus could actually kill him

Clear enough. There are a few ways to perma kill Perpetuals, but it would be hard to find Fulgurite, and Perpetuals avoid Chaos.

BrianDavion wrote:
One things got a point on this, just because perpetuals can be killed doesn't make it easy most referances to it suggest that it requires some special sorcery. I FULLY expect when the Emperor vs Horus show down occurs for Perrson to be PERMAKILLED by Horus, specificly to eistablish both to us, and the Emperor, that the Emperor is in Mortal danger. In short I expect Persson to effectively be used as something of a star trek red shirt. we know who he is, we know what he can do, we know he can't via most means die. and thus when we see him TRUELY die, that'll play things up, in fact it fits perfectly into the narrative of the emperor suddenly realizing he can't just feth around, because Horus could actually kill him

Please, don't encourage him...

Ol' Olly could have been lied to, perhaps to keep him humble; maybe to make him stay away from Chaos and that's what makes (in his own head) his defiant charge into Horus more compelling for him. But no, he resurrects later on- only to see his attempt was for naught as Big E is now utterly FUBAR and he has to live with this guilt for eternity and retires into the shadows. Puts a nice grimdark spin there.

Onething123456 wrote:
Don't ignore the Perpetuals as proof just because you hate them. And what's so bad about the Perpetuals? No one has given a reason other than "they don't add anything." There are many things more "ridiculous" than the Perpetuals in 40k.

Im going to ignore the perps simply by never returning to this forum. My god the amount of gak you have posted about them in the past week or two is just...….staggering. You like perp old person. We get it. How about bringing up something else to discuss? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt about trolling. Now I am not so sure. Just move on, change the subject. Or don't. Im not coming back anyhow so.....yeah. You sir, have defeated my sanity.

I moved on from that. And I'm getting a little sleepy. So I'm going.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wanted this topic to be about what books the Perpetuals will be in next, but since I don't know what books they will be in next and if I can ask Dan Abnett, I'll likely let this die.

The problem with perpetuals is the same problem I had with that deadpool movie. The fight scene at the end where deadpool fights another immortal Uber baddy. We were watching a fight between two people, one who couldn’t feel pain and the other who couldn’t be killed or damaged. What was the point. There was no peril. No danger.

In the BL books the perpetuals are just another example of ramping up the power level. All they do is reduce the amount of peril and danger. Before lying you end up wondering what the point is if all theses people can’t be killed and that the emperor has it all planned all along. Any subtlety has been lost from the story. And this isn’t just perpetuals it’s the whole black library telling of the story.

Alan Bligh was telling the story much more compellingly and without inventing new things to make it easier and more super to do it.

As for what perpetuals remove, other than the sense of danger and humanity, it’s pius for one. The real one. Not this “Old Person”. Removing him removes the emperors real motives and his humanity. It stops it being about the average human. And that is what makes 40k “grimdark”. Humans surviving in a galaxy full of nightmares and angry green space gorillas.

Andykp wrote:
The problem with perpetuals is the same problem I had with that deadpool movie. The fight scene at the end where deadpool fights another immortal Uber baddy. We were watching a fight between two people, one who couldn’t feel pain and the other who couldn’t be killed or damaged. What was the point. There was no peril. No danger.

In the BL books the perpetuals are just another example of ramping up the power level. All they do is reduce the amount of peril and danger. Before lying you end up wondering what the point is if all theses people can’t be killed and that the emperor has it all planned all along. Any subtlety has been lost from the story. And this isn’t just perpetuals it’s the whole black library telling of the story.

Alan Bligh was telling the story much more compellingly and without inventing new things to make it easier and more super to do it.

As for what perpetuals remove, other than the sense of danger and humanity, it’s pius for one. The real one. Not this “Old Person”. Removing him removes the emperors real motives and his humanity. It stops it being about the average human. And that is what makes 40k “grimdark”. Humans surviving in a galaxy full of nightmares and angry green space gorillas.

You say that as though absolutely nothing can kill a Perpetual for good or remove their immortality. That is nonsense.


Fulgurite can put them down, so can Chaos.

And kryptonite!

They are not completely unkillable. Fulgurite (created by the Emperor)can perma kill them, so can Chaos. Their immortality can be removed.


There is nothing stupid about them. Unless you are saying that nigh-omnipotent reality warping Gods (the Chaos Gods), and Gods from the beginning of the universe that can create black holes and destroy solar systems (The C'tan. As shown on page 9 in the 8th Edition Necron Codex. Page 9) are stupid. Or Daemon Princes.

Immortality already existed in 40k before the Perpetuals. Daemon Princes are immortal and Godlike.

Onething123456 wrote:

Immortality already existed in 40k before the Perpetuals. Daemon Princes are immortal and Godlike.

Yes, which is the ultimate prize for the most devout and otherwise completely outstanding chaos worshippers. But guess some humans can have that for free just because... Their regeneration is not bought with anything nor it is powered by anything beyond pure stupidity.

 Crimson wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

Immortality already existed in 40k before the Perpetuals. Daemon Princes are immortal and Godlike.

Yes, which is the ultimate prize for the most devout and otherwise completely outstanding chaos worshippers. But guess some humans can have that for free just because... Their regeneration is not bought with anything nor it is powered by anything beyond pure stupidity.

Perpetuals are extremely rare. Barely more than ten of them at maximum.



And what about literal Gods that can reality warp to a Godlike degree in the setting of 40k? Are they stupid?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm talking about the C'tan and Chaos, in case you did not catch that.

Glutted on the life force of the Necrontyr, the empowered C'tan were near unstoppable and unleashed forces beyond comprehension. Planets were razed, suns extinguished and whole systems devoured by black holes called into being by the reality-warping powers of the star gods. - Necron Codex, 8th Edition, page 9.



EDIT: I thought what powered the Perpetuals is a mystery? It can be the warp, or something else.