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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How do?

So we’re still more than a year away from the culmination of the sequel triolgy. And I’m actually looking forward to a full on home cinema binge of every film and series to date over Chrimbo.

No, I don’t care what you think about any of it, and you shouldn’t concern yourself with my own opinion. Because none of that actually matters in the run of things. Or in other words derail this thread with the same stuff you’ve been saying about Episode VIII, and we’ll have a falling ouf.

But....Episode IX, eh?

I’m very intrigued to see how the plot strings are pulled together.

But.....butl.....i for one have single item upon my wish list. It seems inevitable that Ben/Kylo and Rey are going to have a proper scrap. With lightsabers. And the one thing I want from that is for it to be set to the very best thing out of the prequel Trilogy. And that’s John Williams’ Duel of the Fates.

What a beautiful way to tie the three trilogies together. And what a genuinely top notch piece of music.

Right. Off you go. But remember. No nonsense about the previous films. Because ultimately, they all made money, and nobody really cares all that much.

Crack on.

So you donlt want to go one about the last terrible POS film because "no one cares" - yeah your not biased at all.

Answering you actual question. Wish list: They start from the end of episode 7 and pretend the torrent of pure unadultered excretment that was episode 8 never existed.

IF the show lurches on after the shitstorm of the last film it jumps twenty years sor more so we can have a whole new cast. Or Kylo wakes up and realises that it was all a dream, and then shoots himself.

I'll watch it if it gets to sky but wioll not spend any more money on it in the cinema.

Ren and Ben having a lightsaber fight is so obvious its not worth even wising for it.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Still, given they're flipping back to JJ I don't know how much VIII can really tell us about IX beyond the barest of frameworks for the setup. He may be an overrated hack with a massive over reliance on "woooo mystery boooooox!" guff and who's idea of "plot" consists of whatever bare minimum is necessary to staple his set-pieces together, but it's rare he produces anything that goes all the way to bad, and he doesn't seem to actively take pride in the idea his work might disappoint half the audience, so I expect the worst we could have to look forward to is another TFA - watchable, bit uninspiring, bit too reliant on callbacks, standard JJ problems with pacing and unearned(and thus, flat) emotional moments.

I think the whole 'mystery box' -angle is massively overhyped. There were Mystery Boxes in 'Lost' but I am not sure they were his doing. His Star Trek movies really had no mystery boxes, neither did TFA, it was mostly just fans making stuff up in their heads because of the bad examples set by earlier Star Wars lore.

Problem with JJAb really is that he doesn't see the scripts as a movie but rather a framework for series of cool scenes. He even admitted as much regarding 'Into Darkness' which even he wasn't very satisfied about.

There were rumours that EpIX would be released in two parts. That is not very encouraging and hints that the script is a mess - if it is true, that is.

Any way, it is not hard to think up where they can go with EpIX plot. While Resistance itself is essentially DOA, there are other factions in the Galaxy which could fight First Order, if they choose to do so. They mentioned that in EpVIII, after all. So the plot could be about Resistance trying to organize and convince rest of the Galaxy to fight FO before they get too strong, and it would climax in a massive fleet battle. What's not to like!
What I am afraid, however, is that they will do yet another 'Evil Empire Superweapon plotline' and we will end up with lame remake of EpVI. Because it is a Star Wars movie, we need to have something really big getting blown up as a result of super daring infiltration mission.

What? TFA was all mystery boxes. Where's Luke? Rey's parents? Rey's powers? Snoke? How did Ren turn? Knights of Ren? How First Order? How Republic? How no Empire? How saber? How Falcon? How red arm? How Han such loser? Why Leia cold to Chewie? How Starkiller? Why Luke run? How Maz know? Why nothing make sense everything crap galaxy broken scale shot to hell all OT payoffs end in bitter ashes wtf JJ?

But at least we both agree JJ has no idea how to make a coherent movie.

Well SW9 has a big problem, I. E. No Carrie fisher.

The last trilogy was meant to finish the stories of he 3 main characters from the first trilogy, Han, luke, Leia.

7 was the finish of Hands story, 8 was the finish if lukecs story.

9 was going to finish Leai's story. Without carrie fisher to play leia that's shot. Whole new movie has to be dine now that will be out of sync with the last 2.

Oh wells maybe JJA will get to introduce a new super weapon, the lensflare star, the biggest lensflare effect in he universe! A lensflare capable of destroying the entire galaxy in a single shot.

I hope he has Ewoks. But not your dad's Ewoks. These Ewoks are twice as big.

Backfire wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Still, given they're flipping back to JJ I don't know how much VIII can really tell us about IX beyond the barest of frameworks for the setup. He may be an overrated hack with a massive over reliance on "woooo mystery boooooox!" guff and who's idea of "plot" consists of whatever bare minimum is necessary to staple his set-pieces together, but it's rare he produces anything that goes all the way to bad, and he doesn't seem to actively take pride in the idea his work might disappoint half the audience, so I expect the worst we could have to look forward to is another TFA - watchable, bit uninspiring, bit too reliant on callbacks, standard JJ problems with pacing and unearned(and thus, flat) emotional moments.

I think the whole 'mystery box' -angle is massively overhyped. There were Mystery Boxes in 'Lost' but I am not sure they were his doing. His Star Trek movies really had no mystery boxes, neither did TFA, it was mostly just fans making stuff up in their heads because of the bad examples set by earlier Star Wars lore.

Problem with JJAb really is that he doesn't see the scripts as a movie but rather a framework for series of cool scenes. He even admitted as much regarding 'Into Darkness' which even he wasn't very satisfied about.

There were rumours that EpIX would be released in two parts. That is not very encouraging and hints that the script is a mess - if it is true, that is.

Any way, it is not hard to think up where they can go with EpIX plot. While Resistance itself is essentially DOA, there are other factions in the Galaxy which could fight First Order, if they choose to do so. They mentioned that in EpVIII, after all. So the plot could be about Resistance trying to organize and convince rest of the Galaxy to fight FO before they get too strong, and it would climax in a massive fleet battle. What's not to like!.

A lot. Because currently, none of those factions exist. They'd have to name and flesh out literally all of them, explain why they weren't there in 7 or 8, and why they're suddenly capable of doing something now.

The First Order is already too strong, with fleets and super weapons and 'fleet destroyer' ships (that shouldn't be destroyed because reasons) and seemingly infinite personnel and resources and the New New Republic was already decapitated and lost its single conveniently parked fleet to a super weapon blast.

Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well SW9 has a big problem, I. E. No Carrie fisher.

Honestly, lack of Leia isn't really a problem. Lack of Carrie Fisher is sad, but the lack of the character is kinda whatever. She waffled between not doing anything and terrible, contradictory and hypocritical command advice, then spontaneously manifested Superman's powers for no reason and no purpose beyond saving herself. And since Luke and Han's story finish was 'became terrible people between trilogies and get summarily killed off,' I don't think we're lacking anything by not getting to see how they'll maltreat the end of Leia's story arc.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:I hope he has Ewoks. But not your dad's Ewoks. These Ewoks are twice as big.

Oh. Suddenly I can't unsee the possibility that Abrams will just use Lucas' old script with Wookies helping defeat the Empire instead of Ewoks, totally missing the fact that it was discarded because Chewie made the Wookies seem like they'd not be primitive enough for the theme Lucas wanted to convey.

 Lance845 wrote:
Empire ALSO ended where it started. The rebels fleeing from a planet with the superior empire forces having delivered a blow.

Empire opens hoth. Their fethed run.

Empire ends cloud city. Everyone barely escapes and luke looses ahand. Their fethed run.

And where to they run to? The Rebel Fleet, confirming the Rebellion is still in the fight and still has a lot of resources to call on.

Where does VIII end? A dozen survivors on an old, beat up, maintenance-intensive hunk of junk. Granted, it's a fast, heavily armed hunk of junk with a pretty glorious history in the Rebellion, but it's not taking on even an ancient Victory class Star Destroyer, much less a First Order Resurgent class Star Destroyer (much less a couple dozen of them!). And what else do they have? Some vague allies who couldn't even be bothered to come help them in their darkest hour.

Twelve people vs. the First Order war machine. At best, you're looking at a decade of rebuilding capabilities, and even then that will depend heavily on the goodwill of someone to finance it... and judging by the resources shown thus far by the Resistance, I don't think they've got anyone that wealthy now that Leia is gone.


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 Earth127 wrote:
I thought we aren't supposed to discuss the merits of TLJ int this thread.

How do you discuss a sequel without discussing what came before? All the more because there's exactly ZERO official information about episode IX to discuss in the first place...

I expect a remake of VI. TFA felt like such a rip off, and then I was astonished that they went and did the same thing for TLJ. DIsney SW is a modern, woke remake of the OT. I know how pathetic it sounds, but I honestly feel let down and betrayed by Star Wars. I hope to god a big budget 40k movie never gets made

On a more specific level, I expect another planet killer weapon that gets destroyed at the end, Rey's compassion for Kylo Ren leading to her attempting to bring him back, and him sacrificing himself after their fight to save the good guys. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a Jabba equivalent at the start, possibly an actual relation to Jabba himself. At this point I wouldn't even be that shocked if it turned out Jabba had survived somehow...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What? TFA was all mystery boxes. Where's Luke? Rey's parents? Rey's powers? Snoke? How did Ren turn? Knights of Ren? How First Order? How Republic? How no Empire? How saber? How Falcon? How red arm? How Han such loser? Why Leia cold to Chewie? How Starkiller? Why Luke run? How Maz know? Why nothing make sense everything crap galaxy broken scale shot to hell all OT payoffs end in bitter ashes wtf JJ?

"Where's Luke" is not a mystery box, simply a 'mystery' which was resolved during the course of the movie. As to why he left, it was already explained in the movie, though Luke elaborated it in TLJ.

Rey's parentage was not a mystery. It was part of Rey's character that she was orphaned and didn't remember her parents and daydreamed about them maybe coming back and everything having a reason. Others paid no attention to that, and Maz flat out told her to get over it. I was 100% sure that her parents were nobodies, or at very least somebody not connected to previous SW lore. She had Force powers because sometimes young people living in desert planets are strong in Force. You see, it's like poetry, it rhymes...

Snoke had no mystery around him. Nobody talked about him like he was some kind of mysterious character. They seemed to know who he was. He was not a Sith so he couldn't have been Darth Plagieous (sp?) or whatever. People came up with (bad) fan theories because he was not that well set up (JJ just chose him from a lineup of visuals designed by studio) and "The Leader" is not self-explanatory in same way as "The Emperor".

OP wrote:Dakka, please. Don't derail this thread complaining about VIII and turn it into another garbage fire.

Dakka wrote:Its ok! I brought the bins from the last nine threads!

In fact, there's plenty to speculate on:

Loose threads from TFA not touched by TLJ - things like the other republic worlds, its (limited) standing army, what other remnants not immediately tied to the Resistance might factor into the later story - things that people thought might feature in TLJ but didn't on account of it taking place hours after the last movie ended. Many of these things are still in play, and some things that would fall in this category have been added to since (through the new cartoon and Inferno Squad from Battlefront 2, which also killed off all its OT era characters to keep with the ST theme).

Narrative trajectory post TLJ - There really is a lot to talk about here: between the 'next trillogy' rumors and the 'nobody came' bit from TLJ the Resistance/Light Side/All Encompassing Forces of Good actually seem to be on their way to defeat here - thereby leading to a bad-guy status quo for whatever comes after, but the question is what that status quo is going to look like?

So long as Snoke was in charge Kylo and Hux could only really snipe at each other verbally, but now that he's dead (and you KNOW Hux knows why) those cracks are going to get worse and worse - Hux himself is emblematic of the First Order at large: a true believer in the higher cause, loyal through-and-through to Snoke, and more than willing to lash out recklessly at whatever he can justify calling his enemy. That is something that's going to have to be addressed - and the consequence of it could mean that either Kylo or the First Order will ultimately win out, but not both.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But.....butl.....i for one have single item upon my wish list. It seems inevitable that Ben/Kylo and Rey are going to have a proper scrap. With lightsabers. And the one thing I want from that is for it to be set to the very best thing out of the prequel Trilogy. And that’s John Williams’ Duel of the Fates.

What a beautiful way to tie the three trilogies together. And what a genuinely top notch piece of music.

You know how in the first Hobbit movie, Thorin walks towards this fateful battle he's going to have with that CGI orc and it plays the ringwraith theme for no reason? For me, Duel of the Fates was always about the battle of the old Jedi order against a resurgent Sith threat, once the Sith win... it doesn't appear again, not even in RoTJ with the new Sith order fighting a resurgent Jedi threat.

If the idea was to be revisited though... maybe a new version using a different part of the Cad Goddeu?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I hope he has Ewoks. But not your dad's Ewoks. These Ewoks are twice as big.

or thrice as big, ie Wookies, just so they can sledgehammer in a fumbled slavery is bad m'kay arc

Han Solo covered the Wookie Slave Rebellion, so I don't see a point in repeating it on another planet.

Maybe a child slave rebellion would be more interesting.

Horse slave revolution, they are far more viable as protagonists.

I’m very apprehensive about IX, it’s not like post force awakens and after rogue one came out where I was telling my mates they did a good job with rogue one and episode VIII should be good, since episode VIII and solo it’s really hard to defend Disney wars, they are so awful.

Hey, Solo was pretty good for an action/adventure movie IN SPAAAACE!

JJ makes me nervous about IX certainly, but I'm still looking forward to it. My big concern is that it will retreat to the safety of VII rather than build on VIII. I like JJ as a question man but now its time for answers and that's just never been is strong suit.

Solo was good imo. Both the Anthology movies are good. I’m actually looking forward to those much more than the main trilogy. Though after Solo’s performance, I’m worried about where they are at present.

And yeah, that’s a big issue with JJ isn’t it? He faffs about too much with his mystery boxes and doesn’t pay attention to the little details...or even the resolution to said mystery boxes. Still, I will praise him for returning to puppetry. That and the designs. The aesthetics of the new movies are the one thing I definitely can’t fault.

Solo is a decent B-movie, which would have put in a passable, if slightly lower than expectation, return if not for internal fupwittery with reshoots, regigs and wotnot, its 'failure' is totally on Disney management rather than the 'wrong' kind of fans

3 things I am really hopeful for in IX:

1) Rey's lightstaff. Seriously, this needs to happen. Preferably one side green, one side blue.

2) Force Ghosts. Preferably Anakin and Obi-wan to tie the saga together, but Force Ghost Luke is an absolute MUST at this point.

3) Some kind of retcons to "fix" VIII. Don't get me wrong, I like VIII, but it subverted expectations just to subvert them. If things get a bit retconned to fit JJs original plans, it would make VIII more palatable for many people.
Rey being a "nobody" for example, can easily be a lie Snoke planted in Kylo's vision.
Not holding my breath, but I'd lose my mind if Rey turned out to be both a SKywalker (Luke's daughter) AND a Kenobi (Obi-wan's Granddaughter). Afterall, Obi-wan's had plenty of time to have a daughter that could have grown up and married Luke.

-

Rey as Luke's long-lost daughter and kin to Obi-Wan???? I would puke if that is how they explained Rey's existence. A lazy bunch of writing from unimaginative dolts, if that's what happens ... if you ask me.

"JJ's original plans..."






And making Rey discover she's a long lost Dumbledore is a trope that was ridiculous before Cartman's Mom. At this point I just hope we meet Rey's long lost evil twin, with the eyepatch and pinky rings.

 MDSW wrote:
Rey as Luke's long-lost daughter and kin to Obi-Wan???? I would puke if that is how they explained Rey's existence. A lazy bunch of writing from unimaginative dolts, if that's what happens ... if you ask me.

Icd like to have explained Rey as a genetic experiment palatine commissioned to create a new apprentice using DNA from several force users including luke and Vader. He might bave had met made female hoping a female apprentice would be less likely to rebel.

A rebellion force rescuer her as a small child from an imperial genetics lab and left her later to lead imperial pursuit away. That might have explained her better.

tneva82 wrote:
Well will be going to see it more of out of duty to see how the trainwreck ends but without even Luke to entertain like in VIII not expecting even passable movie out of it.

Hamill is cast for 9, although presumably his parts would be limited to flashbacks and/or ghostly apparitions...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

9 was going to finish Leai's story. Without carrie fisher to play leia that's shot. Whole new movie has to be dine now that will be out of sync with the last 2.

The obvious thing to do would be to mirror RotJ and suddenly announce that Leia has a sister that we didn't know about until just now.


Ah, I've got it! Phasma isn't dead, just badly wounded. She recovers, hears that her estranged sister has died, goes mad with grief and defects. Steals Leia's face, and takes over leadership of the Resistance!

Duel of the Fates was 1 gallon of ice cream that was mixed with 9 gallons of manure that was the PT. You know what you get when you mix 1 gallon of ice cream with 9 gallons of manure? 10 gallons of manure.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:"Nobody really cares all that much."

Citation needed.


Anyway, I look forward to any more "a Star Wars Story" films, but episode IX might as well be Showgirls for how seriously I'll take it.


Okay, now I really want to see crazy Elizabeth Berkeley as a Sith Lord or something. *flips lunch tray*

Be fair, Showgirls is great to watch on mute.

Commander Cain wrote:I actually rewatched VIII the other day for the first time since being disappointed with it in the theaters and I really enjoyed it! Everything just seemed so much better a second time round and all the issues I had with it seemed tiny and insignificant. I would recommend giving it another watch if you didn't like it the first time.

For IX I am trying to stay away from as many rumours and theories this time because they are all just ridiculous. I have faith in JJ Abrams to make a good movie , hopefully he figures out a good way to incorporate the huge cast as there are a lot of characters going to be involved.

Azreal13 wrote:

 Commander Cain wrote:
I actually rewatched VIII the other day for the first time since being disappointed with it in the theaters and I really enjoyed it! Everything just seemed so much better a second time round and all the issues I had with it seemed tiny and insignificant. I would recommend giving it another watch if you didn't like it the first time.

I had a similar reaction. I mean, there's still some really stupid gak in there, but I found that I enjoyed the better bits more and was irritated by the gak bits less.

This, gentlemen, is what we refer to as "Stockholm Syndrome".

 Galef wrote:

3) Some kind of retcons to "fix" VIII. Don't get me wrong, I like VIII, but it subverted expectations just to subvert them. If things get a bit retconned to fit JJs original plans, it would make VIII more palatable for many people.
Rey being a "nobody" for example, can easily be a lie Snoke planted in Kylo's vision.
Not holding my breath, but I'd lose my mind if Rey turned out to be both a SKywalker (Luke's daughter) AND a Kenobi (Obi-wan's Granddaughter). Afterall, Obi-wan's had plenty of time to have a daughter that could have grown up and married Luke.
-

I'd lose my mind too and not in a good sense. Rey being revealed a nobody was GREAT character moment for her. "Secret special background" would only make her even more of a special snowflake and she sure doesn't need any more of that. When they had such a messianic character in the prequels it went over like a wet sock. Now she actually has a touch of "character who rises to occasion and beats the crap odds given at birth" swagger at her. Furthermore, Star Wars trope "everyone is related or somehow connected to other characters" got old already by RotJ, to say nothing about later movies and EU.

 Lance845 wrote:
Empire ALSO ended where it started...

I dunno, I feel like there was an important line in the middle film of the trilogy, maybe something that turned the whole story on its head (for the protagonist at least). A truly epic line, destined to be repeated as a hallmark of the series for decades.

I think it was something about booze money?

 insaniak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well will be going to see it more of out of duty to see how the trainwreck ends but without even Luke to entertain like in VIII not expecting even passable movie out of it.

Hamill is cast for 9, although presumably his parts would be limited to flashbacks and/or ghostly apparitions...

Well yeah the VIII made sure he isn't likely to have near as big role as he had in VIII and for me pretty much only scenes he appeared were worth watching. Of course it's possible he appears as force ghost all the time but then again...

He appeared in cast of VII as well. Role was rather tiny though ;-)

Backfire wrote:
I'd lose my mind too and not in a good sense. Rey being revealed a nobody was GREAT character moment for her. "Secret special background" would only make her even more of a special snowflake and she sure doesn't need any more of that. When they had such a messianic character in the prequels it went over like a wet sock. Now she actually has a touch of "character who rises to occasion and beats the crap odds given at birth" swagger at her. Furthermore, Star Wars trope "everyone is related or somehow connected to other characters" got old already by RotJ, to say nothing about later movies and EU.

That’s a good point actually. I never really thought of it that way. If they hadn’t made her so OP and instead gave her a more realistic training curve, they’d have had a perfect set up there.

That’s the story of Star Wars isn’t it? Good ideas poorly executed.

Alternatively, in terms of producing a spectacular space opera, simple ideas executed spectacularly.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Alternatively, in terms of producing a spectacular space opera, simple ideas executed spectacularly.

varied

The first trilogy def yes
The prequals - poor ideas with spectactular images - but simehow lifeless

TFA - Silly ideas but spectacular.

TLJ - dull, tedious and stupid ideas executed on screen with the same lack of interest or care as the piss poor and lazy writing. Again and Again.