How have the Tau not created warp travel yet

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**Crazyterran**

Most Imperials don't even know how Warp Travel works, beyond needing a very specific breed of mutant to actually do it. And if I was a loyal Imperial Captain and my ship had begun to be boarded by a bunch of aliens, the first thing I would do is shoot my navigator, since i'm boned anyways, might as well make sure they can't make use of my ship.

**Grey Templar**

The Tau actually had/have an intact Imperial Warp Drive. The original imperial colony ship which was sent to colonize T'au that got wrecked by the warp storm crash landed on the moon. It was from that that the Tau developed the skip drive they have now. That was the best they could do with an intact/nearly intact Warp Drive.

**Formosa**

Crazyterran wrote:
Most Imperials don't even know how Warp Travel works, beyond needing a very specific breed of mutant to actually do it. And if I was a loyal Imperial Captain and my ship had begun to be boarded by a bunch of aliens, the first thing I would do is shoot my navigator, since i'm boned anyways, might as well make sure they can't make use of my ship.

and you would be right to, Chaos fleets love those navigators and capturing them is a priority given how mutated the chaos ones have gotten.

**Grey Templar**

Formosa wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
Most Imperials don't even know how Warp Travel works, beyond needing a very specific breed of mutant to actually do it. And if I was a loyal Imperial Captain and my ship had begun to be boarded by a bunch of aliens, the first thing I would do is shoot my navigator, since i'm boned anyways, might as well make sure they can't make use of my ship.

and you would be right to, Chaos fleets love those navigators and capturing them is a priority given how mutated the chaos ones have gotten.

And that generally is indeed what happens. Heck, executing the Navigator is standard procedure in a lot of situations. They do have a nasty tendency towards getting possessed or any other manner of nasty warp occurrences. The Navigator chair can be jettisoned from the ship's exterior if necessary even while you're still in the Warp.

**chimera0205**

Grey Templar wrote:
The Tau have not created true Warp Drives because they are incapable of doing so. They are an utterly non-psychic race, and because of this they cannot conceive of nor even manipulate the technology associated with a true Warp Drive. You have to be a psychic capable species to comprehend the Warp drive, because it isn't fully based in science. It is half scientific and half sorcery. Without being a psychic race you cannot fathom the sorcery part of the warp drive and thus would never be able to replicate it.

And even if the Tau got some real Warp Drives, without navigators or Geller fields they would never survive a true Warp jump. Either they would get hopelessly lost, torn apart by the maelstrom of the Immaterium, or be snacks for daemons.

The only way the Tau could ever get Warp Drive technology is if one of their psychic slave races shares the technology as well as their navigators for the Tau to use. Currently all of their psychic slave races do not share such things, though a combination of both deliberately hiding it and the Tau's complete naivety regarding anything associated with the Warp.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chimera0205 wrote:
I present to you the Kroot warsphere http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warsphere a warp capable vessel that the kroot posses severl of witch has been recorded bieng used to aide the tau in battles so its not like the kroot are hiding them from them. your probably thinking now "ok chimera maybe they do access to warp drives but they have no navigators" and once again dead fething wrong. they have an entire planet chock full of them. The Kroot are stated to have a sort of sixth sense for finding planets in the warp.

The Kroot have warp drives. The Tau do not.

The Tau think that they have total control over the Kroot, but this is incorrect. The Kroot still maintain a lot of independence from the Tau Empire, unbeknownst to the Tau.

And as a I mentioned above, the Tau are completely in the dark about how anything related to the Warp works. To them it is just superstition and unscientific religious rituals practiced by backwards species. They do not know that these rituals and "superstitions" are very real. They don't connect the dots and realize that the Kroot ships are faster and can travel massive distances.

The Tau really are that dumb/naive. They miss what is obvious because they are incapable of noticing it.

From the Kroot point of view, they are simply well paid mercenaries serving the Tau. They do not consider themselves to be a part of the Tau Empire, and in truth they aren't. They just play along because it is beneficial, and the secret shipyards and mercenary bands which sell their services to the rest of the galaxy are kept secret.

Ok wow s9meone has a hell of a hate boner for the Tau. Ok first if all the tau do not have any "Physics slave races" actually the Tau dont have any slave races perios other than maybe the Vespid and we cant even really definitively prove that. The two physic races they have the Nicassar and the various human worlds that have joined them have all jpined willingly and there is no reason to assumr they wouldnt have told them about the warp.

The Tau already have warp drive technology. Even if the kroot refused to share there warp tech It is simply fething impossible that they havnt picked up at least merhcant ship or two from all the imperial worlds theyve yoinked.

Also Kroot warspeheres have been seen fighting alongside the Tau numerous times. Theres no way in helk a speciels as inquisitive and adaptable as the Tau havnt figured out that the kroot ships are faster then theres.

We dont know how the Kroot build there ships so we cant just assume they have "secret shipyards" and its been stated more times than i can count that the kroot view the Tau as there favorite species to be employed by so even if the Tau cant force the kroot to give them warp drives i dont see why they cant just take it from there imperium worlds od the Demiurg and hire kroot as navigators. Ypur seriously overplaying the Taus naivety. Also your gonna call the Tau dumb? At least there first reposne to meeting any alien species isnt to immediately blow up the fething planet like your precious imperium

**Grey Templar**

Given that the Tau ships are still slow as heck and can only barely jump the Daemocles gulf, yeah, they still ain't got jack squat.

Yes, the Kroot do have secret Shipyards. You need to reread the Kroot fluff.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kroot

In order to gather genetic material from all over the galaxy, the Kroot offer themselves as mercenaries, and sell their services to anyone willing to pay them. They travel the galaxy taking limited contracts from both major and minor races, and are regularly employed by the Tau. While the contract with the Tau is supposed to be an exclusive one, the Kroot regularly send out their Warspheres to continue their mercenary trade amongst the wider cosmos.

Outwardly, the Kroot seem to be a simple pre-industrial society, seemingly incapable of achieving powered flight, much less travelling through space. However, Tau observers on Pech have noted evidence that may point to an industrial base hidden on or even inside of some mountains. It's probable that the Kroot deliberately keep their general level of technology low, using it only for weapons and interstellar travel, in order to keep their species strong.

The Tau do have suspicions about the Kroot having secret shipyards, but they have no proof.

**chimera0205**

Grey Templar wrote:
Given that the Tau ships are still slow as heck and can only barely jump the Daemocles gulf, yeah, they still ain't got jack squat.

Yes, the Kroot do have secret Shipyards. You need to reread the Kroot fluff.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kroot

In order to gather genetic material from all over the galaxy, the Kroot offer themselves as mercenaries, and sell their services to anyone willing to pay them. They travel the galaxy taking limited contracts from both major and minor races, and are regularly employed by the Tau. While the contract with the Tau is supposed to be an exclusive one, the Kroot regularly send out their Warspheres to continue their mercenary trade amongst the wider cosmos.

Outwardly, the Kroot seem to be a simple pre-industrial society, seemingly incapable of achieving powered flight, much less travelling through space. However, Tau observers on Pech have noted evidence that may point to an industrial base hidden on or even inside of some mountains. It's probable that the Kroot deliberately keep their general level of technology low, using it only for weapons and interstellar travel, in order to keep their species strong.

The Tau do have suspicions about the Kroot having secret shipyards, but they have no proof.

Once again. NO PROOF. Idle speculation that they MAY have secret shipyards is not proof that they DO have secret shipyards. And the fact that there warp drives are still so slow is the thing im argueing MAKES NO GOD DAMN SENSE. are you even reading the damn thread?!

**John Prins**

The Tau have warp drive technology. What they don't have is navigation. That's why they can only skim the surface of the warp, without reliable navigation, only short jumps are possible, they can't find their way into the deeper warp currents for long trips.

In some ways, Tau warp skimming is superior and beneficial to the Tau Empire - little risk to crew, fast enough to be generally useful, but slow enough to force the Tau to expand in a slow and controlled fashion, meaning their Empire doesn't become scattered like Humanity did. Their early spheres of expansion were done with sublight drives, so warp skimming might not get you to the other side of the galaxy in a hurry, but if it's only a few weeks to the next star system, you can manage an empire so long as you fortify your positions.

Now, the Tau seemed to have brute forced their way into a deeper warp journey with predictable consequences. I assume the Kroot-tech for warp travel is probably dependent on having lots of Kroot together to form a mini-waaaagh field to navigate and Gellar Field their own vessels rather than having properly functioning warp drives the Tau could copy. Maybe someday we'll get Codex Kroot and find out.

**Grey Templar**

chimera0205 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Given that the Tau ships are still slow as heck and can only barely jump the Daemocles gulf, yeah, they still ain't got jack squat.

Yes, the Kroot do have secret Shipyards. You need to reread the Kroot fluff.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kroot

In order to gather genetic material from all over the galaxy, the Kroot offer themselves as mercenaries, and sell their services to anyone willing to pay them. They travel the galaxy taking limited contracts from both major and minor races, and are regularly employed by the Tau. While the contract with the Tau is supposed to be an exclusive one, the Kroot regularly send out their Warspheres to continue their mercenary trade amongst the wider cosmos.

Outwardly, the Kroot seem to be a simple pre-industrial society, seemingly incapable of achieving powered flight, much less travelling through space. However, Tau observers on Pech have noted evidence that may point to an industrial base hidden on or even inside of some mountains. It's probable that the Kroot deliberately keep their general level of technology low, using it only for weapons and interstellar travel, in order to keep their species strong.

The Tau do have suspicions about the Kroot having secret shipyards, but they have no proof.

Once again. NO PROOF. Idle speculation that they MAY have secret shipyards is not proof that they DO have secret shipyards. And the fact that there warp drives are still so slow is the thing im argueing MAKES NO GOD DAMN SENSE. are you even reading the damn thread?!

Complaining that I'm a raging Imperial fanboi, when you're doing the exact same thing for the Tau. Yes, that is in-fact proof. We're not using legal standards here. Tau observers believe the Kroot might have secret facilities, for us the omnipresent observer that is proof that they exist.

You are arguing that it makes no sense that Tau warp drives are slow. Why? It makes perfect sense that they are slow. The Tau are non-psychic. Given what little we know about how Warp Drives work, a non-psychic race not being able to make one makes complete sense.

It is you who haven't understood the fluff properly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

John Prins wrote:

In some ways, Tau warp skimming is superior and beneficial to the Tau Empire - little risk to crew, fast enough to be generally useful, but slow enough to force the Tau to expand in a slow and controlled fashion, meaning their Empire doesn't become scattered like Humanity did. Their early spheres of expansion were done with sublight drives, so warp skimming might not get you to the other side of the galaxy in a hurry, but if it's only a few weeks to the next star system, you can manage an empire so long as you fortify your positions.

The 1st expansion might be that, but the 2nd and 3rd expansions are spread out such that the Tau who make trips regularly only survive for a few of them before simply becoming old. They use primitive cryogenic stasis for important individuals to preserve their lives, but that doesn't speed up their travel. It clearly takes years to travel between many places in the Tau empire, and for a species that only survives ~40 Terran years that is a massive problem.

**CthuluIsSpy**

In order for the Kroot to have a lucrative interstellar mercenary business, they have to have the industrial capacity to create the ships to successfully pull it off. Ergo, they must have shipyards somewhere, and are not the primitive savages the Tau seem to believe they are.

**chimera0205**

Grey Templar wrote:
chimera0205 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Given that the Tau ships are still slow as heck and can only barely jump the Daemocles gulf, yeah, they still ain't got jack squat.

Yes, the Kroot do have secret Shipyards. You need to reread the Kroot fluff.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kroot

In order to gather genetic material from all over the galaxy, the Kroot offer themselves as mercenaries, and sell their services to anyone willing to pay them. They travel the galaxy taking limited contracts from both major and minor races, and are regularly employed by the Tau. While the contract with the Tau is supposed to be an exclusive one, the Kroot regularly send out their Warspheres to continue their mercenary trade amongst the wider cosmos.

Outwardly, the Kroot seem to be a simple pre-industrial society, seemingly incapable of achieving powered flight, much less travelling through space. However, Tau observers on Pech have noted evidence that may point to an industrial base hidden on or even inside of some mountains. It's probable that the Kroot deliberately keep their general level of technology low, using it only for weapons and interstellar travel, in order to keep their species strong.

The Tau do have suspicions about the Kroot having secret shipyards, but they have no proof.

Once again. NO PROOF. Idle speculation that they MAY have secret shipyards is not proof that they DO have secret shipyards. And the fact that there warp drives are still so slow is the thing im argueing MAKES NO GOD DAMN SENSE. are you even reading the damn thread?!

Complaining that I'm a raging Imperial fanboi, when you're doing the exact same thing for the Tau. Yes, that is in-fact proof. We're not using legal standards here. Tau observers believe the Kroot might have secret facilities, for us the omnipresent observer that is proof that they exist.

You are arguing that it makes no sense that Tau warp drives are slow. Why? It makes perfect sense that they are slow. The Tau are non-psychic. Given what little we know about how Warp Drives work, a non-psychic race not being able to make one makes complete sense.

It is you who haven't understood the fluff properly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

John Prins wrote:

In some ways, Tau warp skimming is superior and beneficial to the Tau Empire - little risk to crew, fast enough to be generally useful, but slow enough to force the Tau to expand in a slow and controlled fashion, meaning their Empire doesn't become scattered like Humanity did. Their early spheres of expansion were done with sublight drives, so warp skimming might not get you to the other side of the galaxy in a hurry, but if it's only a few weeks to the next star system, you can manage an empire so long as you fortify your positions.

The 1st expansion might be that, but the 2nd and 3rd expansions are spread out such that the Tau who make trips regularly only survive for a few of them before simply becoming old. They use primitive cryogenic stasis for important individuals to preserve their lives, but that doesn't speed up their travel. It clearly takes years to travel between many places in the Tau empire, and for a species that only survives ~40 Terran years that is a massive problem.

A non physic race that has several psychics races in thier empire. Between the Kroot, The Demiurg, and the Guevesa humans they should be more than capable of scrounging up a warp engine to reverse engineer.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In order for the Kroot to have a lucrative interstellar mercenary business, they have to have the industrial capacity to create the ships to successfully pull it off. Ergo, they must have shipyards somewhere, and are not the primitive savages the Tau seem to believe they are.

Given that Kroot warspheres frequently fight beside the Tau id be very shocked if they still think the kroot are primitive savages.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Assuming that those races want to tell them how to make it, that the personnel they acquired know how to make it, and that the Tau scientists take their heads out of their asses to listen to them.
Also, do the Demiurg have warp tech? All I could find about them is that their ships are slower than imperial ships, but it doesn't say anything about them being warp based.
You have the Nicassar, but their ships aren't capable of interstellar travel, and actually require the Tau to tow them around.

**Skaorn**

Can someone point to a source that states the warp drives and gellar fields require psykers? They were both developed by humans in M18. Psykers didn't really start showing up in any numbers until M22, which was when Navigators were created. Navigators just allowed humans to make longer trips in the Warp. After Slaanesh, Navigators might have become a necessity because you'd almost certainly get lost without one know.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warp_drive

I know people will say that Lexicanum isn't a real source, but it does gel with what I have read before.

If you follow the link to the Warp Jump article, it lists a section on Tau warp travel. It states that they can't fully enter the Warp because they don't have psykers. Now some might say that this is the proof that you need psykers to enter the Warp. Of course it could mean that they can't enter the Warp because they'd just get hopelessly lost without a Navigator equivalent. Instead of making suicidal attempts to travel through the Warp, they use the spring board method.

Tau Warp travel is one of the areas where GW fluff starts breaking down because they haven't put a lot of thought into the implications of what they've wrote. If Tau have allies that are experienced with the dangers of warp travel, why wouldn't they have gellar fields just in case a ship does manage to breach the Warp? Why wouldn't they at least have some rapid response ships that use full warp drives and employ hired Navigators of allied species to quickly reinforce defenses? Why is Chaos and the Warp still a brand new surprise to the Tau when they've been in the game for almost 20 years now? Who the hell let Phil Kelly get away with the God of the Greater Good that saved the 4th Sphere fleet from the Warp crap?

**chimera0205**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Assuming that those races want to tell them how to make it, that the personnel they acquired know how to make it, and that the Tau scientists take their heads out of their asses to listen to them.

I dont see how any of that is an issue. Even if the kroot wont the Guevesa surely will. By all accounts Humans under the control of the tau are much better off than those under the imperium and seem to genuinely liek the tau. I dont see why a guevesa would tell the tau how to make a warp drive. Then they just hire the Kroot as navigators. And what do you mean get thier heads out if there asses? Im pretty sure tau earth caste scientists have been shown to be far more effective than your average mechanicus adept. At least they actually invemt things instead of screaming heresy at anything tjat isnt STC and even some things that are

**CthuluIsSpy**

Well, apparently they think Chaos is just another violent race of xenos, and whilst warp drives and gellar fields predates masses of psykers, they were still created by a race that has psychic potential, and I'm pretty sure you had the odd psyker here and there before.

Nicassar apparently don't use warp drives. If they can't do interstellar travel, then they probably don't go into the warp, even though they are potent psykers. Maybe they know better or something.

**chimera0205**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, apparently they think Chaos is just another violent race of xenos, and whilst warp drives and gellar fields predates masses of psykers, they were still created by a race that has psychic potential, and I'm pretty sure you had the odd psyker here and there before.

Nicassar apparently don't use warp drives. If they can't do interstellar travel, then they probably don't go into the warp, even though they are potent psykers. Maybe they know better or something.

Given there recent expierences im pretty sure the tau have begun to somewhat piece togther what choas is. Given what we know about the DOAT humans i doubt "the odd psycher here and there" would be sufficent to meet demand. The Demiurg have and use warp drives and as far as im aware theres no priof they have psychers either. Same with the kroot.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Where do you see that the Demiurg use warp drives? I don't see anything about them having that. All I could read is that they use hydrogen that's been compressed and ejected out the rear.
Are you confusing Demiurg with Nicassar or something? Which don't have warp drives either, judging by the lack of interstellar travel and the reliance on hibernation. They do use psychic powers to propel the ship, but that's not warp travel, that's telekinesis.
Kroot warspheres are confirmed to use warp travel, no argument there.

**Techpriestsupport**

It could be the tau know the kroot serve as mercs and have warp travel the tau canctnuse because no ork DNA, and understand the kroot benefit from diverse DNA assimilation and allow them to do so as it makes the kroot better. Also assimilating DNA from other races may help the kroot understand them and city them better, which benefits the tau. The tau may honestly not see the kroot as slaves or servants but as a species willingly working with them but still has its own needs and issues and respects them. Gosh maybe the tau actually aren't a fascist space commie empire after all....

**chimera0205**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Where do you see that the Demiurg use warp drives? I don't see anything about them having that. All I could read is that they use hydrogen that's been compressed and ejected out the rear.
Are you confusing Demiurg with Nicassar or something? Which don't have warp drives either, judging by the lack of interstellar travel and the reliance on hibernation. They do use psychic powers to propel the ship, but that's not warp travel, that's telekinesis.
Kroot warspheres are confirmed to use warp travel, no argument there.

Given how spread put the Demiurg are and that they seem to be capable of meeting up frequently it would be extremely unlikely for them to not have some form of FTL or another. Especially since they frequently escape imperium ships who do have FTL. I dont see how a sublight ship can put run a ship with warp drives so they have to have SOMETHING.

**Crazyterran**

chimera0205 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Assuming that those races want to tell them how to make it, that the personnel they acquired know how to make it, and that the Tau scientists take their heads out of their asses to listen to them.

I dont see how any of that is an issue. Even if the kroot wont the Guevesa surely will. By all accounts Humans under the control of the tau are much better off than those under the imperium and seem to genuinely liek the tau. I dont see why a guevesa would tell the tau how to make a warp drive. Then they just hire the Kroot as navigators. And what do you mean get thier heads out if there asses? Im pretty sure tau earth caste scientists have been shown to be far more effective than your average mechanicus adept. At least they actually invemt things instead of screaming heresy at anything tjat isnt STC and even some things that are

Would you be able to explain how to build a computer to a caveman? The Tau have no grasp of the psychic at all due to their weak souls and lack of any racial psykers. Not to mention that the Navigator gene is a carefully curated and very rare genetic trait even amongst Humans, to the point that a group of Mutant Psykers get a seat on the High Lords of Terra, so why do you think other races could just pop the Tau a few Navigator equivalents? It could be that the Kroot just barely have enough to man their own Warspheres? Or, as suggested, it works like the Orks, where they point in a general direction and the collected Ork DNA Kroot project a Geller Field for the Warsphere.

And the Tau Earth Caste is shown to be incredibly resistant to non-tau or even non-traditional thinking as well. Isn't the fluff of one the Riptides from Forge World that the inventor was shunned by regular Earth Caste engineers and his funding slashed until the Tyranids showed up to prove his invention was awesome?

The Humans during the DAOT also had to deal with an entirely different warp than the Tau do now. Before the the Eldar boned the Eye of Terror into existence, the Warp was generally a calm and easy to navigate place. Nevermind after the Ruinstorm during the Horus Heresy leaving a bunch of Warp Storms behind, and now you have the Cicatrix Maledictum cutting the Galaxy in half and the Warp never more tumultuous. So, yes, Humans before could travel through the warp without Navigators or Geller Fields, but the Tau don't get that same opportunity.

chimera0205 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Where do you see that the Demiurg use warp drives? I don't see anything about them having that. All I could read is that they use hydrogen that's been compressed and ejected out the rear.
Are you confusing Demiurg with Nicassar or something? Which don't have warp drives either, judging by the lack of interstellar travel and the reliance on hibernation. They do use psychic powers to propel the ship, but that's not warp travel, that's telekinesis.
Kroot warspheres are confirmed to use warp travel, no argument there.

Given how spread put the Demiurg are and that they seem to be capable of meeting up frequently it would be extremely unlikely for them to not have some form of FTL or another. Especially since they frequently escape imperium ships who do have FTL. I dont see how a sublight ship can put run a ship with warp drives so they have to have SOMETHING.

The Demiurg are also incredibly secretive. They might be aligned with the Tau, but it doesn't mean they are shooting over full schematics for their technology.

**ValentineGames**

Why reinvent the wheel just to get your face eaten off by gribbly things?

**chimera0205**

Crazyterran wrote:
chimera0205 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Assuming that those races want to tell them how to make it, that the personnel they acquired know how to make it, and that the Tau scientists take their heads out of their asses to listen to them.

I dont see how any of that is an issue. Even if the kroot wont the Guevesa surely will. By all accounts Humans under the control of the tau are much better off than those under the imperium and seem to genuinely liek the tau. I dont see why a guevesa would tell the tau how to make a warp drive. Then they just hire the Kroot as navigators. And what do you mean get thier heads out if there asses? Im pretty sure tau earth caste scientists have been shown to be far more effective than your average mechanicus adept. At least they actually invemt things instead of screaming heresy at anything tjat isnt STC and even some things that are

Would you be able to explain how to build a computer to a caveman? The Tau have no grasp of the psychic at all due to their weak souls and lack of any racial psykers. Not to mention that the Navigator gene is a carefully curated and very rare genetic trait even amongst Humans, to the point that a group of Mutant Psykers get a seat on the High Lords of Terra, so why do you think other races could just pop the Tau a few Navigator equivalents? It could be that the Kroot just barely have enough to man their own Warspheres? Or, as suggested, it works like the Orks, where they point in a general direction and the collected Ork DNA Kroot project a Geller Field for the Warsphere.

And the Tau Earth Caste is shown to be incredibly resistant to non-tau or even non-traditional thinking as well. Isn't the fluff of one the Riptides from Forge World that the inventor was shunned by regular Earth Caste engineers and his funding slashed until the Tyranids showed up to prove his invention was awesome?

The Humans during the DAOT also had to deal with an entirely different warp than the Tau do now. Before the the Eldar boned the Eye of Terror into existence, the Warp was generally a calm and easy to navigate place. Nevermind after the Ruinstorm during the Horus Heresy leaving a bunch of Warp Storms behind, and now you have the Cicatrix Maledictum cutting the Galaxy in half and the Warp never more tumultuous. So, yes, Humans before could travel through the warp without Navigators or Geller Fields, but the Tau don't get that same opportunity.

chimera0205 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Where do you see that the Demiurg use warp drives? I don't see anything about them having that. All I could read is that they use hydrogen that's been compressed and ejected out the rear.
Are you confusing Demiurg with Nicassar or something? Which don't have warp drives either, judging by the lack of interstellar travel and the reliance on hibernation. They do use psychic powers to propel the ship, but that's not warp travel, that's telekinesis.
Kroot warspheres are confirmed to use warp travel, no argument there.

Given how spread put the Demiurg are and that they seem to be capable of meeting up frequently it would be extremely unlikely for them to not have some form of FTL or another. Especially since they frequently escape imperium ships who do have FTL. I dont see how a sublight ship can put run a ship with warp drives so they have to have SOMETHING.

The Demiurg are also incredibly secretive. They might be aligned with the Tau, but it doesn't mean they are shooting over full schematics for their technology.

Would i be able to teavh a caveman to build a computer? Probably it would just take a very long time and be an incredible fristrating process. Irl uncontacted neolithic tribes have been incorporated into modern society before. If the Kroot are like irks then theres a simple solution. Throw a bunch kroot on your ships instead of just one or two. Cmon people this isnt rocket science. Well i guess it kinda is but you know what i mean

WTF do you mean the Earth Caste are remarkable intollerent to non tau tech. The taus skim drive was literally found on an alein ship. Every single tau ship uses alien tech.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ValentineGames wrote:
Why reinvent the wheel just to get your face eaten off by gribbly things?

Well if the first time you invented the wheel it was an octagon instead if a circle that eould be a good reason to reinvent it.

**Skaorn**

Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

**BaconCatBug**

Skaorn wrote:
Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

No, but you do need them to not get lost and you need Gellar Fields to not get instanommed.

**Mr Morden**

Skaorn wrote:
Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

You can navigate short distances by using a tech - but its nowhere near as effective as a Navigator or as flexibile.

If you are not protected by a Gellar Field or Sorcery you will die in the Warp - unless the Gods fo Chaos want you as a toy. If they send ships into the warp proper unprotected then you get the 40k version of Event Horizon.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Skaorn wrote:
Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

Maybe because nearly every race that was psychically inclined could create a form of warp tech, whilst those that aren't couldn't?
We know of 2 races that have no or little presence in the warp - Necrontyr and Tau. Neither of which successfully traveled through the warp. The necrons had to enlist the services of a god to break into the webway, and that's considered to be the one of the stupider parts of the new necron fluff. And the necrontyr weren't primitive; according to the 8th ed necron codex, and even in earlier editions, they were more advanced than the Old Ones were. Which means they probably did have knowledge of quantum physics, especially when you consider that they are capable of creating pocket dimensions.

We know of several psychic capable races or warp sensitive races - Eldar, Orks, Humans, Kroot, nicassar, and Old Ones. There are probably more, but these are the more well known ones.
Of these, only the Nicassar apparently hasn't displayed some form of warp travel, and that's probably because they don't need to due to their patience and hibernation.

As such, we can infer that yes, one has to have some sort of connection with the warp in order to create warp travel.
Note that connection with the warp doesn't necessarily mean that one is a psyker, just that one has a certain intuitive grasp when dealing with warp tech, due to its weird, metaphysical nature.

**Formosa**

Skaorn wrote:
Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

in every single book that has a navigator, weirdboy, sorceror, libby, etc. etc. that navigates the warp, warp drives without psykers are just engines that throw you into hell to die, as for the gellar field, its a field that wraps the ship in reality when in the warp and only when in the warp, in realspace it keeps warp entities locked in or locked out and thats it, so given the tau have never been in the warp proper and lived, all they would see is a force field that stops those strange xenos from another dimension, how could they possibly know its effect on the warp.

the other races that work with the Tau may have told them about the warp, but the Tau are like the humans with the imperial truth, so likely ignore the silly superstitions of the lesser enlightened races.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Mr Morden wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

You can navigate short distances by using a tech - but its nowhere near as effective as a Navigator or as flexibile.

If you are not protected by a Gellar Field or Sorcery you will die in the Warp - unless the Gods fo Chaos want you as a toy. If they send ships into the warp proper unprotected then you get the 40k version of Event Horizon.

The Tau found out the hard way.

**Formosa**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
Again, where does it state that a warp drive and a gellar field need a psychic to make or operate? Crossing to another dimension might just require sufficiently advanced knowledge of quantum physics in 40K. The fact that the Tau punched a big hole into the Warp by using a new design of warp drive in great numbers supports that you don't need psykers to enter the Warp.

Maybe because nearly every race that was psychically inclined could create a form of warp tech, whilst those that aren't couldn't?
We know of 2 races that have no or little presence in the warp - Necrontyr and Tau. Neither of which successfully traveled through the warp. The necrons had to enlist the services of a god to break into the webway, and that's considered to be the one of the stupider parts of the new necron fluff. And the necrontyr weren't primitive; according to the 8th ed necron codex, and even in earlier editions, they were more advanced than the Old Ones were. Which means they probably did have knowledge of quantum physics, especially when you consider that they are capable of creating pocket dimensions.

We know of several psychic capable races or warp sensitive races - Eldar, Orks, Humans, Kroot, nicassar, and Old Ones. There are probably more, but these are the more well known ones.
Of these, only the Nicassar apparently hasn't displayed some form of warp travel, and that's probably because they don't need to due to their patience and hibernation.

As such, we can infer that yes, one has to have some sort of connection with the warp in order to create warp travel.
Note that connection with the warp doesn't necessarily mean that one is a psyker, just that one has a certain intuitive grasp when dealing with warp tech, due to its weird, metaphysical nature.

Necrons still have inercialess drives thankfully, its just not in the codex, dolman gates are just one way of travelling for them.

**Crazyterran**

chimera0205 wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
chimera0205 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Assuming that those races want to tell them how to make it, that the personnel they acquired know how to make it, and that the Tau scientists take their heads out of their asses to listen to them.

I dont see how any of that is an issue. Even if the kroot wont the Guevesa surely will. By all accounts Humans under the control of the tau are much better off than those under the imperium and seem to genuinely liek the tau. I dont see why a guevesa would tell the tau how to make a warp drive. Then they just hire the Kroot as navigators. And what do you mean get thier heads out if there asses? Im pretty sure tau earth caste scientists have been shown to be far more effective than your average mechanicus adept. At least they actually invemt things instead of screaming heresy at anything tjat isnt STC and even some things that are

Would you be able to explain how to build a computer to a caveman? The Tau have no grasp of the psychic at all due to their weak souls and lack of any racial psykers. Not to mention that the Navigator gene is a carefully curated and very rare genetic trait even amongst Humans, to the point that a group of Mutant Psykers get a seat on the High Lords of Terra, so why do you think other races could just pop the Tau a few Navigator equivalents? It could be that the Kroot just barely have enough to man their own Warspheres? Or, as suggested, it works like the Orks, where they point in a general direction and the collected Ork DNA Kroot project a Geller Field for the Warsphere.

And the Tau Earth Caste is shown to be incredibly resistant to non-tau or even non-traditional thinking as well. Isn't the fluff of one the Riptides from Forge World that the inventor was shunned by regular Earth Caste engineers and his funding slashed until the Tyranids showed up to prove his invention was awesome?

The Humans during the DAOT also had to deal with an entirely different warp than the Tau do now. Before the the Eldar boned the Eye of Terror into existence, the Warp was generally a calm and easy to navigate place. Nevermind after the Ruinstorm during the Horus Heresy leaving a bunch of Warp Storms behind, and now you have the Cicatrix Maledictum cutting the Galaxy in half and the Warp never more tumultuous. So, yes, Humans before could travel through the warp without Navigators or Geller Fields, but the Tau don't get that same opportunity.

chimera0205 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Where do you see that the Demiurg use warp drives? I don't see anything about them having that. All I could read is that they use hydrogen that's been compressed and ejected out the rear.
Are you confusing Demiurg with Nicassar or something? Which don't have warp drives either, judging by the lack of interstellar travel and the reliance on hibernation. They do use psychic powers to propel the ship, but that's not warp travel, that's telekinesis.
Kroot warspheres are confirmed to use warp travel, no argument there.

Given how spread put the Demiurg are and that they seem to be capable of meeting up frequently it would be extremely unlikely for them to not have some form of FTL or another. Especially since they frequently escape imperium ships who do have FTL. I dont see how a sublight ship can put run a ship with warp drives so they have to have SOMETHING.

The Demiurg are also incredibly secretive. They might be aligned with the Tau, but it doesn't mean they are shooting over full schematics for their technology.

Would i be able to teavh a caveman to build a computer? Probably it would just take a very long time and be an incredible fristrating process. Irl uncontacted neolithic tribes have been incorporated into modern society before. If the Kroot are like irks then theres a simple solution. Throw a bunch kroot on your ships instead of just one or two. Cmon people this isnt rocket science. Well i guess it kinda is but you know what i mean

WTF do you mean the Earth Caste are remarkable intollerent to non tau tech. The taus skim drive was literally found on an alein ship. Every single tau ship uses alien tech.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ValentineGames wrote:
Why reinvent the wheel just to get your face eaten off by gribbly things?

Well if the first time you invented the wheel it was an octagon instead if a circle that eould be a good reason to reinvent it.

The Tau are at the point where they think their Tech is the best, and the Humans are primitives using clubs compared to their elegant designs. So, yes, they would look down their (lack of) nose at Human technology at this point, even if they don't really have a leg to stand on, since the stuff kept in the vaults of the Imperium make the Taus tech look like Baby's First Lasgun. I suppose I used the wrong analogy with the caveman, it's more like teaching a blind man to see colours - Tau aren't really capable of perceiving the Warp unless it's a concentrated lack of it (they still get all anxious and react to the Culexus Assassin that killed Aun'va) or it's the actual warp, where they, you know, get eaten. They've made warp drives in the past, after all, they just have no idea how to perceive what to do with them after that.

Kroot live on one world. Why would there be enough Kroot to throw on all of their ships? Why would the Kroot all go along with eating Orks when their species prefers diversity? That's assuming it works like Orks and it's not a secret Kroot thing.

The Tau Empire kind of proves the Imperium's Human only philosophy right - the non-Tau have their own agendas within the Empire, and they aren't necessarily sharing all their cards with the Tau. Heck, Kroot are only aligned with the Tau nominally, there are still Shapers and Kroot warbands that go off and ally with whomever will give them the tastiest meats to eats.