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Funnily enough, the lasgun is actually more advanced than anything they tau has made.

To my knowledge, the Tau have not invented direct-energy weapons. Their technology is mostly rail gun based, which is something we are developing today. The pulse rifle uses an electromagnetic field to propel a solid projectile, that has been turned into plasma through induction. I'm pretty sure the US navy successfully built a huge ass rail cannon that can do something like that.
What we can't do today is develop a laser weapon with the power output to kill a man. The power requirements are simply too demanding, especially for a man portable weapon.
The laser weapons we have today can only be used to fry sensors or detonate explosives that are already present. It cannot be used to directly kill someone or penetrate tank armor.

The IoM managed to create a man portable, direct energy weapon that has enough power output to create a lethal beam of energy. That's simply incredible from an engineering and scientific point of view.

 Formosa wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Most Imperials don't even know how Warp Travel works, beyond needing a very specific breed of mutant to actually do it. And if I was a loyal Imperial Captain and my ship had begun to be boarded by a bunch of aliens, the first thing I would do is shoot my navigator, since i'm boned anyways, might as well make sure they can't make use of my ship.

and you would be right to, Chaos fleets love those navigators and capturing them is a priority given how mutated the chaos ones have gotten.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't csm use possesed as kind of a helper dog for warp travels.

I think it is time for CHAOS Tau. We have Chaos Eldar (2nd ed codex) We have Chaos Squats, We have Chaos Humans and Marines. Who else is Chaos?

It is time for Chaos Tau. Demand it from GW !! The Tau will love Warp Travel

 admironheart wrote:
I think it is time for CHAOS Tau. We have Chaos Eldar (2nd ed codex) We have Chaos Squats, We have Chaos Humans and Marines. Who else is Chaos?

It is time for Chaos Tau. Demand it from GW !! The Tau will love Warp Travel

Before we do that, let us first get a propper r&h list please.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Funnily enough, the lasgun is actually more advanced than anything they tau has made.

To my knowledge, the Tau have not invented direct-energy weapons. Their technology is mostly rail gun based, which is something we are developing today. The pulse rifle uses an electromagnetic field to propel a solid projectile, that has been turned into plasma through induction. I'm pretty sure the US navy successfully built a huge ass rail cannon that can do something like that.
What we can't do today is develop a laser weapon with the power output to kill a man. The power requirements are simply too demanding, especially for a man portable weapon.

The IoM managed to create a man portable, direct energy weapon that has enough power output to create a lethal beam of energy.

Wait doesnt almost every source mention that the tau pulse rifle is more effective than the lasgun? Why invent directed energy weopons when what you have is way better. Also the tau have captured scores of lasguns when the imperium abonded lots of soldiers during rhe Damocles crusade and they all defected to the tau. If they can reverse engineer a skim drive why not a lasgun. Its likely they dont have lasguns cause they dint want lasguns.

And that's fine. More advanced doesn't necessarily mean more effective. The lasgun's advantage is mostly logistical anyway; for an army like the Imperial guard, where you have to supply billions of soldiers, you need something cheap, easy to produce and maintain, that doesn't require solid ammunition that would add to weight and bulk. The lasgun satisfies those criteria.
The Tau have a much smaller army and their supply lines aren't as long, so those traits aren't needed nor appealing to them. Its simply a difference in military doctrine.
That still doesn't change the fact that from an engineering standpoint, its a lot more difficult to invent and develop a lethal, main portable energy weapon than a rail gun type weapon. Which the IoM can do effortlessly.

Now, what the Tau could use is a lascannon, which packs more of a punch than the heavy rail rifle that broadsides units have, and apparently isn't as heavy as two imperial guardsmen or a single marine could carry it, as opposed to a battlesuit.
You'd think that if the Tau were so open minded about tech, they would have analysed it and develop their own forms of it, if only for scientific curiosity. But they didn't.

There is a huge difference to the people who are saying you need psychics to enter the Warp.(again please provide a source that says this) and those of us, of which I am one of, who are saying that it's possible, just suicidal to do without some equivalent to a Navigator..

A warp drive let's you enter the Warp. A gellar field effectively projects a bubble of real space around a ship so Daemons hopefully can't enter or manifest. I have yet to see where these are psychic in nature

The Tau already employ forms of warp drives that work for them and can those they found dangerous. Both of these things exist in fluff, so I'm not getting where people are pulling this idea that the Tau can't use or even developed warp travel, as some are suggesting.

 admironheart wrote:
I think it is time for CHAOS Tau. We have Chaos Eldar (2nd ed codex) We have Chaos Squats, We have Chaos Humans and Marines. Who else is Chaos?

It is time for Chaos Tau. Demand it from GW !! The Tau will love Warp Travel

Sure. Right after they introduce chaos Orks...

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
I think it is time for CHAOS Tau. We have Chaos Eldar (2nd ed codex) We have Chaos Squats, We have Chaos Humans and Marines. Who else is Chaos?

It is time for Chaos Tau. Demand it from GW !! The Tau will love Warp Travel

Sure. Right after they introduce chaos Orks...

Already exists, if you go by the weird dakka section on Ork weapons that was in that ork version of the Regimental Standard.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
I think it is time for CHAOS Tau. We have Chaos Eldar (2nd ed codex) We have Chaos Squats, We have Chaos Humans and Marines. Who else is Chaos?

It is time for Chaos Tau. Demand it from GW !! The Tau will love Warp Travel

Sure. Right after they introduce chaos Orks...

Already exists, if you go by the weird dakka section on Ork weapons that was in that ork version of the Regimental Standard.

Been around for decades in the lore and older rulebooks plus occasionally in the codexes and novels

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
And that's fine. More advanced doesn't necessarily mean more effective. The lasgun's advantage is mostly logistical anyway; for an army like the Imperial guard, where you have to supply billions of soldiers, you need something cheap, easy to produce and maintain, that doesn't require solid ammunition. The lasgun satisfies those criteria.
The Tau have a much smaller army and their supply lines aren't as long, so those traits aren't needed nor appealing to them. Its simply a difference in military doctrine.
That still doesn't change the fact that from an engineering standpoint, its a lot more difficult to invent and develop a lethal, main portable energy weapon than a rail gun type weapon. Which the IoM can do effortlessly.

Now, what the Tau could use is a lascannon, which packs more of a punch than the heavy rail rifle that broadsides units have, and apparently isn't as heavy as two imperial guardsmen or a single marine could carry it, as opposed to a battlesuit.
You'd think that if the Tau were so open minded about tech, they would have analysed it and develop their own forms of it, if only for scientific curiosity. But they didn't.

Well ypud be making some good points if it wernt for the fact that you toltally ignored Tau Ion weopons. Witch is even more effective energy projection weopons than las weopons. Its jjst only used on vehicles and battlesuits and theyve only recently got them man portable.

@ Cthulhuspy Pulse weapons fire a plasma pulse.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

 Grey Templar wrote:

The 1st expansion might be that, but the 2nd and 3rd expansions are spread out such that the Tau who make trips regularly only survive for a few of them before simply becoming old. They use primitive cryogenic stasis for important individuals to preserve their lives, but that doesn't speed up their travel. It clearly takes years to travel between many places in the Tau empire, and for a species that only survives ~40 Terran years that is a massive problem.

It's a problem for individual Tau, but it keeps the race's resources and industry apace with its expansion. The Tau expand, fortify and expand on a generational scale rather than pushing out as fast as warp travel will allow and overextending themselves. Just the (generally) spherical nature of their expansion will require a slower and slower expansion as the volume increases faster than the travel distance does. Eventually the Tau will need faster warp travel as their empire gets large on the galactic scale, but a measured expansion is far better for the survival of the race than being able to travel anywhere in the galaxy in a relatively short (years/decades) span of time.

Skaorn wrote:
@ Cthulhuspy Pulse weapons fire a plasma pulse.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

Read it again. It explicitly states that it uses a projectile that is turned into plasma through induction.

It fires a plasma pulse, which is generated when an induction field accelerates a particle which breaks down as it leaves the barrel.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

On firing, a ferromagnetic, solid slug is chambered from the magazine and turned into plasma by electromagnetic induction, as it would be relatively easy to alternate the coil current at frequencies sufficient enough to heat the coil to an extreme temperature while keeping it in the chamber. The solenoid is then charged fully, propelling the newly produced plasma out of the gun at an extreme velocity while keeping it cohesive

Particles are made of matter, not energy. Apparently in a white dwarf it stated that they used needle like projectiles, but that's a long time ago. There's also an image floating around showing the inner workings of a pulse rifle, that showed it using both solid ammunition and a battery pack, but I have not ascertained its origin.
Tau pulse weapons are basically the guns from mass effect.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
I think it is time for CHAOS Tau. We have Chaos Eldar (2nd ed codex) We have Chaos Squats, We have Chaos Humans and Marines. Who else is Chaos?

It is time for Chaos Tau. Demand it from GW !! The Tau will love Warp Travel

Cool as Choas Tau would be the problem is that the etherals seem to have the ability to uncoorupt tau as I rememeber reading about a group of tau that got cprrupted but became uncorrupted after a short talk with an etheral. Soooo thats a thing. And besides ud much rather get some more auxilliarys than chaos tau. I want me some Nicassar batyle psychers and some demiurg.
Sure. Right after they introduce chaos Orks...

Already exists, if you go by the weird dakka section on Ork weapons that was in that ork version of the Regimental Standard.

Been around for decades in the lore and older rulebooks plus occasionally in the codexes and novels

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
And that's fine. More advanced doesn't necessarily mean more effective. The lasgun's advantage is mostly logistical anyway; for an army like the Imperial guard, where you have to supply billions of soldiers, you need something cheap, easy to produce and maintain, that doesn't require solid ammunition. The lasgun satisfies those criteria.
The Tau have a much smaller army and their supply lines aren't as long, so those traits aren't needed nor appealing to them. Its simply a difference in military doctrine.
That still doesn't change the fact that from an engineering standpoint, its a lot more difficult to invent and develop a lethal, main portable energy weapon than a rail gun type weapon. Which the IoM can do effortlessly.

Now, what the Tau could use is a lascannon, which packs more of a punch than the heavy rail rifle that broadsides units have, and apparently isn't as heavy as two imperial guardsmen or a single marine could carry it, as opposed to a battlesuit.
You'd think that if the Tau were so open minded about tech, they would have analysed it and develop their own forms of it, if only for scientific curiosity. But they didn't.

Well ypud be making some good points if it wernt for the fact that you toltally ignored Tau Ion weopons. Witch is even more effective energy projection weopons than las weopons. Its jjst only used on vehicles and battlesuits and theyve only recently got them man portable.

I didn't ignore them.
Tau Ions weapons were given to them by the Demiurg. They were not invented by the Tau.
How are they more effective than las weapons? A Ion cannon is S7 D3 damage, isn't it? A lascannon is S9 D6 damage.
Unless you mean the ion rifle, which is stronger than a lasgun, but again, the lasgun isn't meant to be strong, its meant to be cheap.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
And that's fine. More advanced doesn't necessarily mean more effective. The lasgun's advantage is mostly logistical anyway; for an army like the Imperial guard, where you have to supply billions of soldiers, you need something cheap, easy to produce and maintain, that doesn't require solid ammunition. The lasgun satisfies those criteria.
The Tau have a much smaller army and their supply lines aren't as long, so those traits aren't needed nor appealing to them. Its simply a difference in military doctrine.
That still doesn't change the fact that from an engineering standpoint, its a lot more difficult to invent and develop a lethal, main portable energy weapon than a rail gun type weapon. Which the IoM can do effortlessly.

Now, what the Tau could use is a lascannon, which packs more of a punch than the heavy rail rifle that broadsides units have, and apparently isn't as heavy as two imperial guardsmen or a single marine could carry it, as opposed to a battlesuit.
You'd think that if the Tau were so open minded about tech, they would have analysed it and develop their own forms of it, if only for scientific curiosity. But they didn't.

Well ypud be making some good points if it wernt for the fact that you toltally ignored Tau Ion weopons. Witch is even more effective energy projection weopons than las weopons. Its jjst only used on vehicles and battlesuits and theyve only recently got them man portable.

I didn't ignore them.
Tau Ions weapons were given to them by the Demiurg. They were not invented by the Tau.
How are they more effective than las weapons? A Ion cannon is S7 D3 damage, isn't it? A lascannon is S9 D6 damage.

In game damage does not equal lore effectiveness. Also bieng willing to adapt alien tech is a kind of advancement in its own right. Also i kinda forget they got it from the demiurg. Good news is thats one more point against the person who daid the Tau were against adopting alien tech earlier this thread.

Edited by RiTides

I'd advise against referring to other posters in this forum as "dumbass". It's against rule 1.
Also, how does in game damage not reflect lore effectiveness? It is abstract, yes, but it can still be used as some form of objective metric in comparing various weapon strengths, no?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'd advise against referring to other posters in this forum as "dumbass". It's against rule 1.
Also, how does in game damage not reflect lore effectiveness? It is abstract, yes, but it can still be used as some form of objective metric in comparing various weapon strengths, no?

Wait we have rules? Where do i find them? Sheer damage maybe but damage is far from the only thing determining a weopons effectiveness. Accuracy, range, etc matter just as much. And given what the theme if the tau is its orettyblikely that the ion cannon is surperior in both those respects

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
@ Cthulhuspy Pulse weapons fire a plasma pulse.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

Read it again. It explicitly states that it uses a projectile that is turned into plasma through induction.

It fires a plasma pulse, which is generated when an induction field accelerates a particle which breaks down as it leaves the barrel.

Particles are made of matter, not energy.
Tau pulse weapons are basically the guns from mass effect.

I'm no type even going to get into this with you. I suggest you read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'd advise against referring to other posters in this forum as "dumbass". It's against rule 1.
Also, how does in game damage not reflect lore effectiveness? It is abstract, yes, but it can still be used as some form of objective metric in comparing various weapon strengths, no?

Wait we have rules? Where do i find them? Sheer damage maybe but damage is far from the only thing determining a weopons effectiveness. Accuracy, range, etc matter just as much. And given what the theme if the tau is its orettyblikely that the ion cannon is surperior in both those respects

Accuracy depends on the user if we are going by game stats.
There is nothing in the lore that states that there is a difference in accuracy between the las weapons and ion weapons, so we'll have to assume they are equal.
There is a range stat though. Ion weapons tend to out range las weapons, so that's useful.

Its not that obvious (they should really put the link in the introductions section), but the forum rules are here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skaorn wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
@ Cthulhuspy Pulse weapons fire a plasma pulse.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

Read it again. It explicitly states that it uses a projectile that is turned into plasma through induction.

It fires a plasma pulse, which is generated when an induction field accelerates a particle which breaks down as it leaves the barrel.

Particles are made of matter, not energy.
Tau pulse weapons are basically the guns from mass effect.

I'm no type even going to get into this with you. I suggest you read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

Alright, fair enough. I guess that counts. Its a really basic way of making a direct energy weapon, and all it is is making a projectile go so fast it breaks down into gas, but it will do. You'd think that would still be a bit solid when it leaves the barrel though, due to the range. Plasma tends to dissipate, but anyway.
Still a lot easier to make than a lethal laser weapon.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'd advise against referring to other posters in this forum as "dumbass". It's against rule 1.
Also, how does in game damage not reflect lore effectiveness? It is abstract, yes, but it can still be used as some form of objective metric in comparing various weapon strengths, no?

Wait we have rules? Where do i find them? Sheer damage maybe but damage is far from the only thing determining a weopons effectiveness. Accuracy, range, etc matter just as much. And given what the theme if the tau is its orettyblikely that the ion cannon is surperior in both those respects

Accuracy depends on the user if we are going by game stats.
There is nothing in the lore that states that there is a difference in accuracy between the las weapons and ion weapons, so we'll have to assume they are equal.
There is a range stat though. Ion weapons tend to out range las weapons, so that's useful.

Its not that obvious (they should really put the link in the introductions section), but the forum rules are here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skaorn wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Skaorn wrote:
@ Cthulhuspy Pulse weapons fire a plasma pulse.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

Read it again. It explicitly states that it uses a projectile that is turned into plasma through induction.

It fires a plasma pulse, which is generated when an induction field accelerates a particle which breaks down as it leaves the barrel.

Particles are made of matter, not energy.
Tau pulse weapons are basically the guns from mass effect.

I'm no type even going to get into this with you. I suggest you read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

Alright, fair enough. I guess that counts. Its a really basic way of making a direct energy weapon, and all it is is making a projectile go so fast it breaks down into gas, but it will do. You'd think that would still be a bit solid when it leaves the barrel though, due to the range. Plasma tends to dissipate, but anyway.
Still a lot easier to make than a lethal laser weapon.

Well gak we actually do have rules. I legitimately didnt know we had codified rules. I thought we just had a general "dont be a dick" policy and left it to the mods discretion. The more you know i guess.

Well i highly doubt all weopons have identical accuracy lore wise. That would be redicoulous.

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
And that's fine. More advanced doesn't necessarily mean more effective. The lasgun's advantage is mostly logistical anyway; for an army like the Imperial guard, where you have to supply billions of soldiers, you need something cheap, easy to produce and maintain, that doesn't require solid ammunition. The lasgun satisfies those criteria.
The Tau have a much smaller army and their supply lines aren't as long, so those traits aren't needed nor appealing to them. Its simply a difference in military doctrine.
That still doesn't change the fact that from an engineering standpoint, its a lot more difficult to invent and develop a lethal, main portable energy weapon than a rail gun type weapon. Which the IoM can do effortlessly.

Now, what the Tau could use is a lascannon, which packs more of a punch than the heavy rail rifle that broadsides units have, and apparently isn't as heavy as two imperial guardsmen or a single marine could carry it, as opposed to a battlesuit.
You'd think that if the Tau were so open minded about tech, they would have analysed it and develop their own forms of it, if only for scientific curiosity. But they didn't.

Well ypud be making some good points if it wernt for the fact that you toltally ignored Tau Ion weopons. Witch is even more effective energy projection weopons than las weopons. Its jjst only used on vehicles and battlesuits and theyve only recently got them man portable.

I didn't ignore them.
Tau Ions weapons were given to them by the Demiurg. They were not invented by the Tau.
How are they more effective than las weapons? A Ion cannon is S7 D3 damage, isn't it? A lascannon is S9 D6 damage.

In game damage does not equal lore effectiveness. Also bieng willing to adapt alien tech is a kind of advancement in its own right. Also i kinda forget they got it from the demiurg. Good news is thats one more point against the dumbass who daid the Tau were against adopting alien tech earlier this thread. Suck it random internet guy.

The guy who can't even spell is calling me a dumbass because the Tau have been shown to look at Imperial stuff and toss it out, and have been shown to be close minded to even their own researchers if it doesn't follow their own style of doing things.

Alright. I'll just hit the yellow exclamation point.

 Crazyterran wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
And that's fine. More advanced doesn't necessarily mean more effective. The lasgun's advantage is mostly logistical anyway; for an army like the Imperial guard, where you have to supply billions of soldiers, you need something cheap, easy to produce and maintain, that doesn't require solid ammunition. The lasgun satisfies those criteria.
The Tau have a much smaller army and their supply lines aren't as long, so those traits aren't needed nor appealing to them. Its simply a difference in military doctrine.
That still doesn't change the fact that from an engineering standpoint, its a lot more difficult to invent and develop a lethal, main portable energy weapon than a rail gun type weapon. Which the IoM can do effortlessly.

Now, what the Tau could use is a lascannon, which packs more of a punch than the heavy rail rifle that broadsides units have, and apparently isn't as heavy as two imperial guardsmen or a single marine could carry it, as opposed to a battlesuit.
You'd think that if the Tau were so open minded about tech, they would have analysed it and develop their own forms of it, if only for scientific curiosity. But they didn't.

Well ypud be making some good points if it wernt for the fact that you toltally ignored Tau Ion weopons. Witch is even more effective energy projection weopons than las weopons. Its jjst only used on vehicles and battlesuits and theyve only recently got them man portable.

I didn't ignore them.
Tau Ions weapons were given to them by the Demiurg. They were not invented by the Tau.
How are they more effective than las weapons? A Ion cannon is S7 D3 damage, isn't it? A lascannon is S9 D6 damage.

In game damage does not equal lore effectiveness. Also bieng willing to adapt alien tech is a kind of advancement in its own right. Also i kinda forget they got it from the demiurg. Good news is thats one more point against the dumbass who daid the Tau were against adopting alien tech earlier this thread. Suck it random internet guy.

The guy who can't even spell is calling me a dumbass because the Tau have been shown to look at Imperial stuff and toss it out, and have been shown to be close minded to even their own researchers if it doesn't follow their own style of doing things.

Alright. I'll just hit the yellow exclamation point.

Im sorry for calling you a dumbass. It was a bit too far and uncalled for.

But if there so closed minded then how do you explain them readily accepting Demiurg tech and the alien skim drives.

In the future, please just hit the yellow triangle but don't post in the thread of there is an issue for mods to deal with - we're completely OT at this point!

I've edited the language above. Please remember our #1 rule is just "Be polite", and this includes most namecalling.

Back on topic now, please...

I'm pretty sure you can enter the Warp without using a Navigator or even without using a psyker. When a ship uses Warp travel it uses onboard instruments to determine how long they have to travel on a set course/Warp current before they reach their destination. The Warp, of course, is not perfectly predictable, and a ship can easily get nudged off its course by the currents of the Warp, so a ship would have to regularly reemerge from the Warp to realign its position and course in real space before reentering and continuing the voyage.

All a navigator does is allow the ship to readjust its course mid flight by using the Astronomicon as a reference point. Since the ship doesn't have to regularly exit the Warp to recalibrate, and doesnt constantly go off course, the journey goes much faster.

Not every last ship in the Imperium has a navigator. An Agri-World supplying a Hive World the next system over doesn't need a Navigator, because they won't be in the Warp long enough to get beaten off course.

What you DO need, however, is a Gellar field (unless you're an Ork or got Ork DNA like the Kroot), and possible explanations formp why the T'au don't have them are:

1. Not having enough experiance with deep Waro travel to develop it

Or the less likely but more fun explanation of:

2. The Gellar Field is actually upper Dark Age of Technology level of advanced tech and is simply beyond the T'au with their current level of technology. The Gellar Field is just so utterly important it's one of the few things Humanity didn't lose during the Age of Strife.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I would say that, while useful as an abstraction, you can't really use in-game stats to definitively say X is more powerful then Y. Fluff wise I think Rail weapons are more powerful than Lascannons, same way the Vanquisher is way better at Anti-Tank than a Punisher and the Rapid-Firing rocket launcher given to the 1 Million Astartes is more powerful than the Pulse Weapons given to the 100s of Millions of Firewarriors.

 Grey Templar wrote:


Complaining that I'm a raging Imperial fanboi, when you're doing the exact same thing for the Tau. Yes, that is in-fact proof. We're not using legal standards here. Tau observers believe the Kroot might have secret facilities, for us the omnipresent observer that is proof that they exist.

Yeah, that's definitely not proof, by any standard, legal or otherwise. The Tau don't say they know there are secret facilities, so even from their perspective it's a possibility, not a certainty, but for us as the observer, the fact that the source of this belief is an entity who clearly isn't all knowing makes it very clear that this isn't proven.

In fact, if you really want to take the whole "To us as players" approach, we know for a fact that it's not proof as GW writers specifically try to go with the "It may be true, it may be false" approach to allow multiple views of the lore, and of course, the GW stance on lore is that even the lore can be wrong, as while it's canon, it's not necessarily true.

It's quite possible the Kroot have hidden shipyards, but it's also quite likely that the ships were built before the Kroot's general move away from technology, where they started to do the whole "Eat to improve our genetic structure" rather than relying on technology, and these ships have only been maintained since, which was implied in Battlefleet Gothic, I believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In order for the Kroot to have a lucrative interstellar mercenary business, they have to have the industrial capacity to create the ships to successfully pull it off. Ergo, they must have shipyards somewhere, and are not the primitive savages the Tau seem to believe they are.

Not necessarily. They might've only HAD the industrial capacity, before they moved away from technology and took some serious hits from Ork invasions, or they might simply hire out transports. We've seen other species like the Tarellians who clearly have no center of industry to make ships, but do well as mercenaries.

Tau tech is vaslty superior to imperial tech, period. The imperium can barely make and maintain grav/repulsor vehicles. The tau mass produce them enough to use them on disposable drones!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'd advise against referring to other posters in this forum as "dumbass". It's against rule 1.
Also, how does in game damage not reflect lore effectiveness? It is abstract, yes, but it can still be used as some form of objective metric in comparing various weapon strengths, no?

Definitely not. Game stats were never meant to reflect lore. It's why space marines are so terrible on Tabletop compared to in-lore. The stats were made for balance and being able to get a good, sizeable force of diverse figures that's a challenge to get to work together effectively, rather than accurately showing us power levels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Tau tech is vaslty superior to imperial tech, period. The imperium can barely make and maintain grav/repulsor vehicles. The tau mass produce them enough to use them on disposable drones!

The question of tech is a really difficult one in 40k. I mean, who has better tech, modern day USA, or a bunch of nomadic cavemen who found a bunch of plasma weapons and power armor they can use but don't understand? The Imperium can reproduce some pretty incredible tech, and they have far more in storage that they can never rebuild, but they have a serious lack of knowledge and understanding. They're cavemen who looted their high-tech ancestors and took over their factories, really.

The T'au, on the other hand, are the exact opposite. Sure, they don't have the level of stuff the Imperium has at its craziest, but they understand their stuff, they can reproduce it, and above all, they can improve it at unprecedented levels. They're the modern US, or any modern nation, really, with an actual understanding of what they have and a fairly decent universal tech level.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Tau tech is vaslty superior to imperial tech, period. The imperium can barely make and maintain grav/repulsor vehicles. The tau mass produce them enough to use them on disposable drones!

Hah, no.
Tau tech only looks more advanced because they can afford to distribute tech equally amongst all citizens.
The Imperium can't do that due to their size, which is why they look relatively primitive, but they still have access to some impressive bits of tech. Like functional laser weapons.
The admech do know how to create tech and understand it. The artisans' job is to build it, and the genetors' job is to study alien tech so they know how to defeat it, which implies that the admech are not, in fact, primitive monks but do know a thing or two about science.
What the admech don't like is innovation, and in a way they have a point; why bother inventing a new thing if humanity already invented it, and its probably better than anything you can ever make? Just find the STC.
I guess they are kind of like WHFB dwarfs in a way, in that they are skilled at what they do, they just don't like new things and will grumble if someone tries to do something different.