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You'll be dead one day, why bother getting out of bed?


Because you don't know when it will happen, so why worry about it?

"primaris marines are totally easy to make visually distinct and interesting! You just take the parts from oldmarine kits and put them on them, and wowza you've got one characterful primaris marine!"

^^^This is the problem.

Marines are going from an embarrassment of options with respect to how you can characterize your dudes to...well, essentially what many other factions' players have had to contend with for 20+ years. Pick what color your plastic mans are! Have fun with your four poses! Will this termagant be looking left, right, or forwards? Shall I build my guardian with his gun held out sort of like firing, or held down, sort of like he's kind of hanging out casually in his big wide horse stance?

It's one of the craziest steps back I've seen out of GW in their modern era. but boy howdy are they taking that step back! primaris marines are basically baby's first army, in terms of both modeling and rules. Considering that 3 years ago GW basically seemed comitted to making a whole second game out of artisanally crafted super-custom your dudes space marines, the whiplash slam to "NO your space marines will ALL LOOK THE SAME as EVERYONE ELSES" is a bit of a wild ride.

the_scotsman wrote:
"primaris marines are totally easy to make visually distinct and interesting! You just take the parts from oldmarine kits and put them on them, and wowza you've got one characterful primaris marine!"

^^^This is the problem.

Marines are going from an embarrassment of options with respect to how you can characterize your dudes to...well, essentially what many other factions' players have had to contend with for 20+ years. Pick what color your plastic mans are! Have fun with your four poses! Will this termagant be looking left, right, or forwards? Shall I build my guardian with his gun held out sort of like firing, or held down, sort of like he's kind of hanging out casually in his big wide horse stance?

It's one of the craziest steps back I've seen out of GW in their modern era. but boy howdy are they taking that step back! primaris marines are basically baby's first army, in terms of both modeling and rules. Considering that 3 years ago GW basically seemed comitted to making a whole second game out of artisanally crafted super-custom your dudes space marines, the whiplash slam to "NO your space marines will ALL LOOK THE SAME as EVERYONE ELSES" is a bit of a wild ride.

I can't think of anything coming out 3 years ago that implied super custom your dudes marines. the Marine HQ units where where mono pose etc

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There are investments with better returns. GW wants to sell you new toys, not have everyone using 20yr old toys. They can and will invalidate things at will.

You realize that the Primaris stuff so far has sucked pretty hard, right?

Only real exception is with Deathwatch.

If I were starting a new marine army, I'd stick with Primaris marines only, and I would recommend other starters to do the same, but as I've already started a (now old) marine army, I'm going to stick with it until it's finished.

The new minis look good(mostly), but the fluff is a joke. I think it would have gone over better if they had just said “new tech means we can rescale marines a bit “ and bring out a new box of guard that is scale down a little bit.
The future is here sorta thing. But they are selling, and that is all that matters to GW they will slowly send of the old marines, even if half of the new marines kits are to do truescale conversions for old marines.

Considering the numbers of marine kits of which some are pretty new it'll take GW years to replace them properly with Primaris.And once they've done it Primaris will have the same weapons old marines have (just bigger and +1) so you can use your old heavy bolter devastator as Primaris Vinquilator with heavy bolt-shredder. And by that time we are deep into 10th edition. So buy what you like, give Primaris MK VIII or MK III helmets as they look much better and you'll have a great army .

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
According to GW, Primaris are reinforcements, not replacements.

Come on, man.

You quoted that out of context. That is what GW have said and that is the current status in 8th edition. I said myself (the bit you didn't quote) that based on what's happened since 8th edition landed that new releases will be Primaris only and that nobody knows what GW will do going forward.

 Brother Castor wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
According to GW, Primaris are reinforcements, not replacements.

Come on, man.

You quoted that out of context. That is what GW have said and that is the current status in 8th edition. I said myself (the bit you didn't quote) that based on what's happened since 8th edition landed that new releases will be Primaris only and that nobody knows what GW will do going forward.

I don't think he was suggesting you weren't accurate, but rather that Games-Workshop are probably full of gak, and that even though no one knows what will happen to oldmarines going forward, we all still kinda "know" what is happening to oldmarines going forward.

Absolutely agree with OP. But only because you should buy Orks instead of Marines.

I have had no problem using my RT Marines in 8th, or any other edition. Though usually with the Chaos book, as, paradoxically, it seems to be the most ‘stable’ over time and they are my ‘b’ army. Not worth buying a new book for them every five minutes.

I came back into the hobby about a year ago and had no idea what Primaris marines even were but I knew they looked awesome. I bought Dark Imperium and got the Imperial fist battleforce for Xmas and now have a nearly all Primaris Crimson fist army.

The only non Primaris I have bought are 5 sternguard and 2 venerable dreads, I like this fluff wise as the Primaris are now the rank and file where the remaining old marines are veterans of a considerable length of time which makes sense for the remaining ones to be sternguard and ven dreads etc.

I think the entire Primaris project is a way of GW updating the entire Marine model line and aesthetic over a number of years, allowing them to not only revamp the range and give it a tabletop boost, but also consolidate the number of kits available.

I fully expect that, in five years or so, the model range will be entirely Primaris, that will be the norm and instead of two tiers, all marines will have the same stats again.

When that happens, I imagine there will be a lot of people using their old marine models anyway, just with the new stats.

Buy whatever you like the look of - in a few years you’ll be using them all as ‘Primaris’ anyway.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I fully expect that, in five years or so, the model range will be entirely Primaris, that will be the norm and instead of two tiers, all marines will have the same stats again.

When that happens, I imagine there will be a lot of people using their old marine models anyway, just with the new stats.

Yup, that's my plan.

There is no need to avoid buying them, I think you'll be fine a long time into the future. Many of the current classic marine kits are still quite new, GW is not going to stop selling them anytime in the next 10 years or so.

Even with the current focus on Primaris they are still producing new classic marine models through FW and the Heroes series.

In the longer future maybe they will go. Or maybe Primaris won't have worked out so well and the designers in 10 years time will return to classic marine kits and produce new versions. And then the forum cynics and antagonists will be saying primaris are being squatted

I personally doubt classic marines will ever disappear as they are iconic and have such a long history in the fluff. I think GW will always keep them in 40k.

The Primaris are just a new way of selling more types of marine.

Additionally in the fluff classic marines are still being produced, and GW have outright stated they are an addition to Space Marines, not a replacement.

Honestly, I don't think classic marines are going anywhere, anytime fast, if only because the Horus Heresy game is still a thing.

Whilst I'm about as diehard a 'oldmarines good, numarines bad' as it gets, I'm fairly sure, that for a long while at least, we'll still get the odd new toy to supplement our collections from the heresy series (and crossed fingers and toes) the 40k character series too.

While Games Workshop themselves probably won't release anything that isn't a hulking vat-grown ultramarine with a smoother mk iv helmet, greebles all over the place, and who is increasingly fine with like hanging out with eldar and not committing warcrimes.
But I think for anyone who really enjoys the more classically grimdark stuff, FW has our back, especially if the necromunda stuff is anything to go by. Sure, it's more expensive, but I guess if you're gonna be picky about your toys (like I am) them's the brakes.

I'm intrigued by the repulsor tank segregation thing though. It seems like such a deliberate separation, and really only serves to punish anyone looking to a) mix armies, or b) just straight-up add one to a classic marine army, both of which seem like kind of radical stumbling blocks, even with the "the rules only exist to force you to buy one for your primaris" argument. So GW may yet surprise us with something equally barmy. Luckily, I've pretty much finished my marines, without one of those Cawl monstrosities in sight.

I think the whole "dont buy old marines" is kinda a load of over the top worrying tbh. At some point MAYBE in the future they will stop making old marines, but we have YEARS till then [if they actually do] The space marine line has been growing since the 80's, and it will take them at a minimum 5-10 years to bring out the same amount of primaris equivalents, and only then can they start the phasing out of old marines, which could still take another 5-10 years, But ONLY if sales drop enough that they are no longer profitable. at the end of the day this is a company that wants to make money, nothing more nothing less. They are not going to discontinue their biggest selling line, and piss off half their customers like that. The space marine line in 1 year alone brings in about 50 times more profit than all of Warhammer fantasy did in its last 2-3 years [and probably like 100 times more popular], and look how people got up in arms about that! If it does happen it will be a long and very slow process so people dont notice the impact as much.

Personally i think they will actually release new old marine models instead, not scrap them 100% for primaris.

I think there'll come a point - give it a couple of years - that there'll be a Codex: Primaris Astartes or whatever it'll be called that contains only Primaris units, and all the old datasheets will be hived off to a legacy PDF (like they've been doing with Age of Sigmar).

Unless you only want to play Matched Play, that's fine. The models still exist, the rules still exist, so keep doing what you're doing.

For the background? the Primaris marines don't seem any more "good guys" than the other marines - they've got the same indoctrination, and by now they're part of the same culture and are drawn from the same recruitment pool as the ordinary Marines. If anything, the story is giving us a hint of the same sort of "terrans vs locals" conflict as the Horus Heresy stories used as foreshadowing.

Personally, I have stopped all purchases of marines.

I really wanted to do a Black Templar’s army and Grey Knights, but knowing that they will be obsolete soon has turned me off of them.

Marines used to look amazing too, skulls, purity seals, golden filigres, actual close combat weapons. The new ones are just so bland. Doesn’t fit the aesthetic of 40k at all.

Not to mention the Primaris fluff is complete hack garbage.

It’s a shame GW ruined SM like they did, they used to be awesome.

Guys, oldmarine models are fine and the more people buy them, the longer GW will support them. Simple as.

Models are updated, ranges are remade and yes a lot of local marine players in my area are moaning about the lack of 'customization' the Primaris get, as a Chaos Daemons player/Tyranid player I just pointed out the new Primaris are still more customizable than most other troops, by being able to use previous marine shoulder pads and helmets.

Hell the new primaris LOOK amazing, have plenty of awesome design space left and I would be collecting them and converting them into a Chaos Marine version if Abbadon wasn't right around the corner. They'd look amazing with converted power halberds and chained shields.

Even index-only rules wouldn't be the end of the world as long as they are valid for matched play. I doubt any assassins or renegade knights players are worried about being index-only.

Everything gets a facelift and is beeing remodeled, why should minis not be?
That old stuff is beeing removed and replaced is 100% natural, thats why museums exists.(heck, you do it with all other items/objects in your life)

I suspect that they won't remove old marines entirely, although I've been wrong before.

Even if, worst case scenario, Primaris marines replace standard marines entirely, I don't think we'll ever see a day when you won't be able to use your old marines on the table. (Should they all be replaced, your legacy models will still see use as primaris marines--I've never seen anyone refuse to play with 3rd edition DE Grotesques or the older, smaller Leman Russes.)

It's incredibly rare for an actual Citadel model to be completely invalidated.

It also depends what era you're setting your battles in. Most of the interesting campaigns take place before the opening of the Great Rift and obviously you can't use Primaris Marines in these, so it pays to have a good stock of normal sized marines.

Sumilidon wrote:
With the all new Primaris Marines, the porting of characters to Primaris and the new, upcoming range - now is another exciting times to buy Space Marines. The problem however is that many leading people in the industry fully expect the current line of Space Marines to slowly and surely be squatted.

As such, should anyone looking to start an army but the original line or just avoid them until GWs intentions are clear?

I mention this from my own viewpoint. I view this game not only as a hobby, but as an investment, especially considering the cost. I still have armies from 20 years ago that are completely useable and I still do (I have a 1988 Bloodthirster I use as a Daemon prince) - but the idea that the Space Marines you buy today, spend more than money but time building and painting, only to then find they may be unusable in the future is something I feel GW needs to address.

The sheer amount of oldmarine kits out there, especially snowflake units like wulven, death company, ravening bikes, etc. Make me doubtful GW is going to completely invalidate the old marines anytime soon. They just fill way too many niches and abilities that would take years to fill with Primaris and that would be a very marine heavy release period, making the marine waves we've suffered through in the past seem like a joke.

What I could see is replacing the generic marines with Primaris in a soft fashion whereas old marines fill a ton of specialist roles, aka what's happening right now. So Tac Marines are kind of trash but primaris really can't do the things you'd expect Sternguard, Death Company, Thunderwolf cav, grey knights, etc. Etc. Etc.

I mean think about, GW would have to cancel DOZENS of kits, many of which are their most iconic models. The rhino, land raider, mk VII marine, terminators, the original dreads, etc. Etc. And some factions, like grey knights would need to be squatted entirely. That's just not feasible in 2 years unless every release was primaris. Maybe 5 or 10 years, but not 2.

Essentially, primaris start filling in all the generic new guy roles while the old marines all get promoted into the veteran companies and take on leadership positions.

Anyone complaining the end is nigh is wrong, and they're whining for the sake of finding something to whine about.

BrianDavion wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"primaris marines are totally easy to make visually distinct and interesting! You just take the parts from oldmarine kits and put them on them, and wowza you've got one characterful primaris marine!"

^^^This is the problem.

Marines are going from an embarrassment of options with respect to how you can characterize your dudes to...well, essentially what many other factions' players have had to contend with for 20+ years. Pick what color your plastic mans are! Have fun with your four poses! Will this termagant be looking left, right, or forwards? Shall I build my guardian with his gun held out sort of like firing, or held down, sort of like he's kind of hanging out casually in his big wide horse stance?

It's one of the craziest steps back I've seen out of GW in their modern era. but boy howdy are they taking that step back! primaris marines are basically baby's first army, in terms of both modeling and rules. Considering that 3 years ago GW basically seemed comitted to making a whole second game out of artisanally crafted super-custom your dudes space marines, the whiplash slam to "NO your space marines will ALL LOOK THE SAME as EVERYONE ELSES" is a bit of a wild ride.

I can't think of anything coming out 3 years ago that implied super custom your dudes marines. the Marine HQ units where where mono pose etc

I want to make a space marine unit armed with boltguns.

I have the choice of:

Space Marine Tactical Squad
Space Marine MKIII Tactical Squad
Space Marine MKIV Tactical Squad
Dark Angels Veterans Box
Blood Angels Tactical Squad Box
Space Wolves Box
Deathwatch Veterans Box
Sternguard Veterans Box
Upgrade Sprues for Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, White Scars and Raven Guard

All these bits are fully compatible and I can use any of them interchangeably to make the basic look of my space marines unique.

I want to make a unit of Primaris Intercessors TM

I have the choice of

Primaris Intercessors Box
Upgrade Sprues for Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Ultramarines




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Everything gets a facelift and is beeing remodeled, why should minis not be?
That old stuff is beeing removed and replaced is 100% natural, thats why museums exists.(heck, you do it with all other items/objects in your life)

I think the problem I have is that SPACE MARINES are not freaking OLD.

They're replacing kits that are objectively gorgeous compared to over half the basic units in other armies. They released the idea of Ynnari years ago with many speculating it would lead to an Eldar look redesign, but we haven't seen or heard a peep about it since the disaster that was their rules design.

Guard basic troops are ancient.

CSM basic troops are ancient (We at least have news of this now)

Eldar basic troops are ancient.

Ork basic troops are ancient.

Necron basic troops are ancient.

Sisters basic troops are so ancient they've fossilized into some sort of precious metal material that GW is pricing accordingly

why would you choose to scrap and overhaul the most up-to-date and extensive model range you have for something with much much less interesting gameplay (primaris are basically Necron/Eldar level in terms of options on their basic troops with none of the interesting unique rules) makes zero sense.

I mean, while you're not wrong...the Intercessors do have 3 different types of boltguns to choose from.

And it seems that like many others you're conflating "kitbashing" with "options". You have customization you can do, certainly but it is not really the same as actually having options.

I'd love to know where these Raven Guard upgrade sprues are though. Because GW sure as hell isn't the one selling them...and FW only sells packs to do 5 models at a time for $33.

I rather have a fewer number of good looking kits than greater nember of bad looking kits. And of course nothing is stopping one from kitbashing sime parts of those old kits with the Primaris. Whilst I agree that Primaris are currently somewhat samey, I exect it will change given time. Jes pretty much confirmed it already. Personally I have had absolute blast with the Primaris, personalising them has been great fun.

 Crimson wrote:
I rather have a fewer number of good looking kits than greater nember of bad looking kits. And of course nothing is stopping one from kitbashing sime parts of those old kits with the Primaris. Whilst I agree that Primaris are currently somewhat samey, I exect it will change given time. Jes pretty much confirmed it already. Personally I have had absolute blast with the Primaris, personalising them has been great fun.

Again, this is funny to me.

"primaris marines do have character, to make them look the way you like, just...use...old marine bits..."

the_scotsman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I rather have a fewer number of good looking kits than greater nember of bad looking kits. And of course nothing is stopping one from kitbashing sime parts of those old kits with the Primaris. Whilst I agree that Primaris are currently somewhat samey, I exect it will change given time. Jes pretty much confirmed it already. Personally I have had absolute blast with the Primaris, personalising them has been great fun.

Again, this is funny to me.

"primaris marines do have character, to make them look the way you like, just...use...old marine bits..."

That's not really what it seems like Crimson is saying. Crimson is saying that they are having fun personalizing the Primaris to what they want.

And quite frankly? I can't do crap to personalize old Marines to make them Raven Guard without going to Forge World or buying a single shoulderpad from the Deathwatch Veterans boxed set via bits sellers or buying a bunch of Corvus armor. It's no different than if I were to do Iron Hands(although at least there I can buy Mark III armor in plastic) or White Scars or Fists of any type(although, again, at least powerfists are in plastic). So I have no reason to be upset about not being able to do the same for Primaris. I've got a Raven Guard transfer sheet and I've been doing a few things here and there to make characters 'mine'. My LTs and Captains, for example, are getting Stalker Bolt Rifles and I've grafted the barrels from Scout Sniper Rifles onto the end to denote them as 'Master-Crafted'.