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 Billagio wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
How on terra will I be able to afford a whole new daemon engine chaos arnmy?


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 Billagio wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
That’s pretty decent and useful as long as units are placed correctly. However, things like dark reapers still say hello.

Not sure how Dark Reapers have any sort of advantage here. The rule gives YOUR Daemon Engines +1 to hit and ENEMY VEHICLES within 6" of the Lord -1 to hit.

So the -1 part of the rule only affects enemy vehicles that are super close to the model. Very situational
The +1 part of the rule is the only appealing part

-

I think hes just saying the rule is cool but something like dark reapers will still likely be able to kill it quickly

1. We do not know, since we don't know its rules or stats.
2. That's not much of an argument. Showcase pretty much anything and "the strongest shooting unit in this shooting based game can still kill it" will probably apply.

Im just translating what he meant yo

Thnanks for trying to translate for em man. He is correct. You get plus one? But I have you minus 2, 1 for alaitoc and 1 for conceal. You get -1? Reapers don’t care about modifiers, plus I guided them. Unit dies in a point, click, delete fashion. Throw in shining spears for good measure. My point was that this is awesome but unfortunately competetive wise not much in the way of progress, or enough progress I should say. But if you don’t care about competetive then this is fluffy and awesome. That’s what I was trying to make a point of.

I think it would be super weird if it wouldn't be 10+ wounds. It looks pretty massive.

The -1 is for your vehicles to hit mine.

Let's assume you have guided 9 reapers.

And that I have one daemon engine under the 4++ bubble.

9 * .888 * .666 * .5 * 3 = 6 to 9 wounds.

That's a 306 point unit supported by 110+ points that couldn't kill one that is 130 points supported by 90. And that support is also boosting 5 other engines.

Meanwhile I cancel (for I presume 180ish points) one of your -1 (that you spent another 40 points to get). And the VCs who don't degrade on BS or suffer move penalties shoot - 6D3 S6+ AP3 shots and reroll 1s to hit and wound (the same 90- points of support) - kills 4 or 136 points.

And then I can potentially heal *all* of the wounds you just did to me.

Seems fairly viable to me - ynnari excluded. There are more challenging things than dark re thinking personal these days.


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 Crimson wrote:
I think it would be super weird if it wouldn't be 10+ wounds. It looks pretty massive.

Smaller than VC by a bit and that has 10 wounds.

I of course was assuming ynnari, who wouldn’t? Point being this helps chaos but.. it just still doesn’t reach Craftworld/drukhari standards, which are the standards we have to go off of. Oh, and of course castellan.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
So, this doesn’t say “enemy vehicles” within 6”, so apparently this afflicts your own vehicles and if you’re lucky to have a daemon engine, offsets the penalty they would get to hit because they are vehicles too?

Did GW miss this or was it intended?

<EDIT: Nevermind - I hate the way GW worded this, it does only affect enemy vehicles.>

The way is wordedis important though, as it makes sure it can't ever stack.

Because that just would've been TOO broken!

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I of course was assuming ynnari, who wouldn’t? Point being this helps chaos but.. it just still doesn’t reach Craftworld/drukhari standards, which are the standards we have to go off of. Oh, and of course castellan.

Ynnari is not the standard to achieve - it's the standard to be nerfed. Castellan lists still need to shake out from assassin meta and whatever the FAQ might bring. There's more to the puzzle.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I of course was assuming ynnari, who wouldn’t? Point being this helps chaos but.. it just still doesn’t reach Craftworld/drukhari standards, which are the standards we have to go off of. Oh, and of course castellan.

Ynnari is not the standard to achieve - it's the standard to be nerfed. Castellan lists still need to shake out from assassin meta and whatever the FAQ might bring. There's more to the puzzle.

I doubt ynnari will be nerfed honestly. I also don’t feel it’s necessary. It’s fine where it is. Things can beat it, just have to work hard and play smart. Nothing wrong with that honestly.. just strategy and a competent commander

I'd love for Ynnari to be nerfed or even removed. As a non-soup Eldar player I suffer a lot of gripes, and unit cost changes etc....solely because Ynnari makes units broken/stupid.

3x Double Soulburner Pretard Decimators.

This guy.

Barebones Jump Lord

So, 2+, 4D3 mortal wounds with re-rolls for ones.

Slap that Master of Possession to grant that +1 Inv. Sv. Spell on one of them.

It's a lot of points but did Decimators just become better?

 Elbows wrote:
I'd love for Ynnari to be nerfed or even removed. As a non-soup Eldar player I suffer a lot of gripes, and unit cost changes etc....solely because Ynnari makes units broken/stupid.

I mean, I’d never wish a faction that someone enjoys playing to simply be taken away.. necrons are literally my least favorite anything for 40k. Their look, play style, tends to even be the individuals that play them.. but I wouldn’t wish them gone. Kinda arrangant to want a whole faction wiped out/nerfed to oblivion. And you can’t blame ynnari for the eldar stigma. That’s been around since 5th edition.

Like the sound of him and a demon engine army. Not sure how I feel about the aesthetics though.. Looks like ad mech with a little bit of flesh on the maw of the monster.

Interested. Might not sell all of the shadowspear models I bough. Very happy chaos is getting piped up. Well done GW!


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 Elbows wrote:
I'd love for Ynnari to be nerfed or even removed. As a non-soup Eldar player I suffer a lot of gripes, and unit cost changes etc....solely because Ynnari makes units broken/stupid.

I play eldar craft world and I agree...

Ynnari isin't really an army/faction IMO. Its 1 kit with 3 models... 1 of which sees play. and its the newest thing the Eldar got kit wise?
Then again I would harlequins were rolled into Eldar Book... don't mind my ramblings.

GW is really pushing "Chaoszilla" aren't they?

Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Defilers, Venomcrawlers, Daemon Princes (and I guess, Heldrakes ), and now the Discordant.

Just give Helbrutes the <Daemon>/<Daemon Engine> keyword and we're good to go!

Has there been any indication of whether TSons will get this guy?

Trying to decide whether to go Defilers or Predators for Heavy Support. Was leaning Predators for Kill Shot, but +1 to hit makes Defilers a lot more attractive...

 Stux wrote:
Has there been any indication of whether TSons will get this guy?

Trying to decide whether to go Defilers or Predators for Heavy Support. Was leaning Predators for Kill Shot, but +1 to hit makes Defilers a lot more attractive...

No indication but likely that Death Guard and Thousand Sons won't have access to him based on everything else they've done. He will have <LEGION> and you can't make that <DEATH GUARD> or <THOUSAND SONS>.

Wayniac wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Has there been any indication of whether TSons will get this guy?

Trying to decide whether to go Defilers or Predators for Heavy Support. Was leaning Predators for Kill Shot, but +1 to hit makes Defilers a lot more attractive...

No indication but likely that Death Guard and Thousand Sons won't have access to him based on everything else they've done. He will have <LEGION> and you can't make that <DEATH GUARD> or <THOUSAND SONS>.

Yeah, that's what I'm expecting to be honest... But you never know!

 Crimson wrote:
I think it would be super weird if it wouldn't be 10+ wounds. It looks pretty massive.

This thing being under 10 wounds would be even more goofy than DPs getting character protection.

"Sir, our men can't seem to distinguish between the giant biomechnical daemon engine monstrosity and the three cultists standing in front of it!"

There is precedence for other large things having sub 10. Personally, I think if he's 10+ it's going to greatly lower how cool he is because he can get wiped off the board in one turn.

I am hoping he has 8. But I'm already thinking of using him with 2x Venomcrawlers advancing up, or 2x Forgefiends sitting in the backfield. There are a lot of potential now that we can make Daemon Engines good.

What are the chances that besides being a character, the model is also a demon?

Karol wrote:
What are the chances that besides being a character, the model is also a demon?

I'm not sure. I would guess he has <DAEMON ENGINE> because he's riding one. <DAEMON> is just as likely due to that.

 The Warp Forge wrote:
3x Double Soulburner Pretard Decimators.

This guy.

Barebones Jump Lord

So, 2+, 4D3 mortal wounds with re-rolls for ones.

Slap that Master of Possession to grant that +1 Inv. Sv. Spell on one of them.

It's a lot of points but did Decimators just become better?

This might make you happier - the +1 invuln is a bubble.


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Wayniac wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Has there been any indication of whether TSons will get this guy?

Trying to decide whether to go Defilers or Predators for Heavy Support. Was leaning Predators for Kill Shot, but +1 to hit makes Defilers a lot more attractive...

No indication but likely that Death Guard and Thousand Sons won't have access to him based on everything else they've done. He will have <LEGION> and you can't make that <DEATH GUARD> or <THOUSAND SONS>.

As far as we can tell it isn't legion restricted so he can be in his own detachment and buff PBCs to a 3+.

Wayniac wrote:

Karol wrote:
What are the chances that besides being a character, the model is also a demon?

I'm not sure. I would guess he has <DAEMON ENGINE> because he's riding one. <DAEMON> is just as likely due to that.

Ok thanks, I hope he doesn't get the demon trait.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
As far as we can tell it isn't legion restricted so he can be in his own detachment and buff PBCs to a 3+.

His "Aura of Discord" specifically says <LEGION> DAEMON ENGINE as well as stating the ability itself has to be on a friendly <LEGION> model. And you explicitly can't replace <LEGION> with <DEATH GUARD> at present.

 The Warp Forge wrote:
3x Double Soulburner Pretard Decimators.

This guy.

Barebones Jump Lord

So, 2+, 4D3 mortal wounds with re-rolls for ones.

Slap that Master of Possession to grant that +1 Inv. Sv. Spell on one of them.

It's a lot of points but did Decimators just become better?

It's 210 points for an 8 wound model that can be picked out and shot easily. But yes, it did become better, make it Tzeentch and you can get it to a 3++. Still not sure I'm thrilled about the cost for the amount of work it would be doing. Now if you went dual Butcher Cannons for 140 that's much more palatable and with Daemonforge is probably going to do a lot of work.

Wayniac wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
As far as we can tell it isn't legion restricted so he can be in his own detachment and buff PBCs to a 3+.

His "Aura of Discord" specifically says <LEGION> DAEMON ENGINE as well as stating the ability itself has to be on a friendly <LEGION> model. And you explicitly can't replace <LEGION> with <DEATH GUARD> at present.

Wow I totally blanked that out. My poor Thousand Sons. Though I'm a little glad DG don't get it considering the implications there.

Wayniac wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
As far as we can tell it isn't legion restricted so he can be in his own detachment and buff PBCs to a 3+.

His "Aura of Discord" specifically says <LEGION> DAEMON ENGINE as well as stating the ability itself has to be on a friendly <LEGION> model. And you explicitly can't replace <LEGION> with <DEATH GUARD> at present.

Agreed. To be allowed in Thousand Sons or Death Guard armies they'd need to either release alternate Datasheets, or a rule that explicitly overrides the normal rule for what Legion you can choose.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 The Warp Forge wrote:
3x Double Soulburner Pretard Decimators.

This guy.

Barebones Jump Lord

So, 2+, 4D3 mortal wounds with re-rolls for ones.

Slap that Master of Possession to grant that +1 Inv. Sv. Spell on one of them.

It's a lot of points but did Decimators just become better?

It's 210 points for an 8 wound model that can be picked out and shot easily. But yes, it did become better, make it Tzeentch and you can get it to a 3++. Still not sure I'm thrilled about the cost for the amount of work it would be doing. Now if you went dual Butcher Cannons for 140 that's much more palatable and with Daemonforge is probably going to do a lot of work.

Yeah, it's rather expensive. But it's the one thing the Decimator has over say, the Contemptor... The Contemptor is a better stand alone Butcher Cannon and C-Beam platform, and the melee version is cheaper. Also, it's not a Daemon Engine and suffers from a degrading profile, but it benefits from legion traits which can be a pretty big game changer.

PS : the Contemptor model is also cheaper and available in plastic.

So, this guy makes my Decimators and Kytan Ravager hit on 2's. That I can get behind.

 Stux wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
As far as we can tell it isn't legion restricted so he can be in his own detachment and buff PBCs to a 3+.

His "Aura of Discord" specifically says <LEGION> DAEMON ENGINE as well as stating the ability itself has to be on a friendly <LEGION> model. And you explicitly can't replace <LEGION> with <DEATH GUARD> at present.

Agreed. To be allowed in Thousand Sons or Death Guard armies they'd need to either release alternate Datasheets, or a rule that explicitly overrides the normal rule for what Legion you can choose.

Honestly, some of their datasheets are just a mess, like the Lords that Death Guard have for example. Giving access to this would hardly break anything.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 The Warp Forge wrote:
3x Double Soulburner Pretard Decimators.

This guy.

Barebones Jump Lord

So, 2+, 4D3 mortal wounds with re-rolls for ones.

Slap that Master of Possession to grant that +1 Inv. Sv. Spell on one of them.

It's a lot of points but did Decimators just become better?

It's 210 points for an 8 wound model that can be picked out and shot easily. But yes, it did become better, make it Tzeentch and you can get it to a 3++. Still not sure I'm thrilled about the cost for the amount of work it would be doing. Now if you went dual Butcher Cannons for 140 that's much more palatable and with Daemonforge is probably going to do a lot of work.

It is but tbh, from experience most of the CSM codex is either "You get turn 1 or lose" so I guess any amount of points is gonna go and If I can take out a Knight in a turn then I think its points well spent!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/13/chaos-space-marines-focus-the-lord-discordant/

Well it fixes the BS problem. Chaos should instantly be better with this if the tax isn't a tax.