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 warboss wrote:
[...but close is only good enough in horseshoes and something else in that idiom that I can't remember.

Hand grenades. Close definitely counts with hand grenades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grot 6 wrote:
..
THEN, they didn't even finish the first game before they were at it again trying to do a 2d edition. Lets .

I'm not sure how to take the 2nd edition nonsense.

As I understand it, the rules set they shipped had some major problems, so they cleaned it up. Like what Sedition Wars did (and posted the new rulebook online).

But the components were still the same, right?

I think the problem might be that the title "2nd ed." That gives us expectations that are not ok before they finish delivery.

I think the 2nd edition redesigned a bunch of the minis too both to make casting easier (facehuggers) and to change the size/proportions (marines)

My understanding was the 2nd edition was all unicast solid single pieces. Or maybe that's just the jungle expansion.

As a quick question, does anyone know of the size of the aliens?

Not the bigger dudes, but the smaller stalkers / warriors. Are they like, space marine sized / bigger, GEQ, ect?

 morganfreeman wrote:
As a quick question, does anyone know of the size of the aliens?

Not the bigger dudes, but the smaller stalkers / warriors. Are they like, space marine sized / bigger, GEQ, ect?

I can do you a size comparison shot tomorrow when I get home. (There’s a pic of A drone v a true scaled chaplain at the top of my P&M blog linked below if you want an idea now)

Any particular type or marine or guard model your looking for them to be compared against?
And do you want the unicast, normal or both?

They also lost Warzone last year.

I'd think many times before sending any money their way.

So like, can someone give me a breakdown of the Prodos Fiasco?
It seems interesting, and I wanna know what Happened

FYI Disney is not "canceling" licenses. I talked to Dark Horse Comics and they said that it's bunk; they have the Aliens, Predator, and AVP licenses for many more years. Draw your own conclusions as to how Prodos lost theirs. (and as far as I am aware, they had the license for the AVP computer game? no other films, books, characters, likenesses, etc)

The following is my honest take on the matter, all info is to be viewed as hearsay. I have no connection at all to Prodos nor Archon, other than as an infrequent customer and AvP KS backer. I also have backed Archons Chronicle X KS which is delayed and yet to be delivered. (They have communicated well on this however)

My reading of the situation is that the owners of Prodos is cutting their losses and letting go/getting rid of all external IPs, as most of their woes (accoring to Prodos themselves) are due to Fox's draconic IP management with protracted approval process which repeatedly effed up their timetables and plans, costing them greatly in both cash in hand and causing the entire KS debacle. That they could have managed the entire situation significantly better is an understatement, but anyway.

Such licenses are bought for large sums of money and last only a few years at a time. I think the timing here is consistent with the license not being renewed as opposed to being taken away from them as many have assumed.

AFAIK AvP is the last external IP they have, and I expect the Prodos brand name to disappear in short order, as the name is fatally tarnished by the AvP KS. They have stated in the past that they very much want to avoid external IPs in the future because of all the approval problems.

The owners of Prodos established the Archon company a few years ago to manage their own IPs (derivative as they may be) and the production of same, and have had considerable success with their own Kickstarted games, such as LOAD. They have also developed the Unicast method of producing single-piece plastic miniatures with undercuts and all (wonderfully detailed at that) under the Archon banner.

Jared and crew are scum bag con artists. They lied to us AvP backers many times and have yet to fully deliver items paid for several years ago.

 judgedoug wrote:
FYI Disney is not "canceling" licenses. I talked to Dark Horse Comics and they said that it's bunk; they have the Aliens, Predator, and AVP licenses for many more years. Draw your own conclusions as to how Prodos lost theirs. (and as far as I am aware, they had the license for the AVP computer game? no other films, books, characters, likenesses, etc)

Mostly likely it was time to renew and Disney is more expensive then fox or Prodoss saw that sales were bad and wasn't worth continuing. The notion that Disney took the license away or refused Prodos is pretty absurd for a small market they probably don't even know exists unless someone pretty high up was a KSer backer.

Also remember Knight Models dropped Marvel once Disney bought them as it was too expensive to keep the licenses for what their sales where and actually got Harry Potter from WB cheaper.

Were they at Salute today?

If so, did they bring a lot of this stuff along?

Yes and yes. Most of it had sold by the end of the day, including the more expensive items (APC) and most of the 2nd edition core sets. About the only thing they still had a lot of were the Hot Landing Zone expansion pack.. probably half of those sold. They had Starcide and Empire of Men stuff on display, plus the terrain from the recent modular ruins KS on display and previews of the modular dungeon terrain they are working on. I was pretty impressed with what they had on display, but it will live or die based on the variation they are able to add (rounded corners, double wide door arches etc).

The terrain looked quite good indeed but not something I would go for. A shame AVP died, I expected so much from this license but never really did much.

 odinsgrandson wrote:

 warboss wrote:
[...but close is only good enough in horseshoes and something else in that idiom that I can't remember.

Hand grenades. Close definitely counts with hand grenades.

Thanks. I think a solid case could be made that this part I forgot would be the more important of the two!

 warboss wrote:

 odinsgrandson wrote:

 warboss wrote:
[...but close is only good enough in horseshoes and something else in that idiom that I can't remember.

Hand grenades. Close definitely counts with hand grenades.

Thanks. I think a solid case could be made that this part I forgot would be the more important of the two!

Glad I could help. Next time you're holed up in a trench with grenades hurled at you, you'll remember that 'close counts.'

 JoeRugby wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:
As a quick question, does anyone know of the size of the aliens?

Not the bigger dudes, but the smaller stalkers / warriors. Are they like, space marine sized / bigger, GEQ, ect?

I can do you a size comparison shot tomorrow when I get home. (There’s a pic of A drone v a true scaled chaplain at the top of my P&M blog linked below if you want an idea now)

Any particular type or marine or guard model your looking for them to be compared against?
And do you want the unicast, normal or both?

Sorry, few days late here, but:

Just compared to a standard IG infantrymen would be fine. That pic you linked gives a decent amount of scale tbh, looks like they're about 'primaris' height on average. But you know, clarity always helps.

Cheers either way.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
FYI Disney is not "canceling" licenses. I talked to Dark Horse Comics and they said that it's bunk; they have the Aliens, Predator, and AVP licenses for many more years. Draw your own conclusions as to how Prodos lost theirs. (and as far as I am aware, they had the license for the AVP computer game? no other films, books, characters, likenesses, etc)

Also remember Knight Models dropped Marvel once Disney bought them as it was too expensive to keep the licenses for what their sales where and actually got Harry Potter from WB cheaper.

Lol no. Marvel dropped Knight models cos km are a screw up of a company who didn't do as they were asked

At the end of the day, Prodos wrote checks their butts couldn't cash.

They had an overextended plan, couldn't make it work, and are still paying the price for their shortsightedness.

The way they handled the situation did zero favors, as they reneged several times and outright lied about their holdings. On one hand, they cast some great figures, on the other, they should never be in business or touch another property again with a ten foot pole.

The excuses flow like honey from them, and even if they don't want to admit it, their lack of business experience, and serious production capabilities completely overwhelmed them.

The size of the Alien depends on the one you ask about. The smallest, the facehugger is about the size of a plastic, or resin cast 25mm base. The Warrior (Base Alien) is about the size of a Space Marine, but in the end, these figures were all around 32-35mm. (Larger then GW's idea of HEROIC size.)
The Predalien was about the size of a Terminator of the same time period, and the Alien Queen is about the size of a Terminator character, now. MAYBE a little larger.

If you got that first batch, of resin, or res-plastic that they used, you got hit or miss quality figures. As to the Second edition, you got colored molded plastic.

I waited a few years, and after it was all said and done, still didn't get everything I was supposed to and just threw my hands up and sold off the stuff I had received and wrote off the rest- And even then, I didn't received what I'd asked for in the first place.

Like I said, from the get go, this was an overreaching and ambitious project, and I think, by the end, we all knew it was going to kill the company, especially when they were - at the same time- to the death trying to argue that they were fine, and they could handle the 3 or 4 major projects, while they acquired Archaeon, and try to waste efforts on all of their woes.

The most crucial thing that killed it for them In MY Opinion, was the "Spokesman", Space Crusade, and the Half Stepping that comes with overconfidence and lack of business stratagem.

When it comes to license properties, the thing I've noticed seems to determine the difference between a success and failure is how the company producing the product responds to the license holder's demands.

The companies that succeed seem to understand the particularities of "spec art" and strive to make things just right. When the license holder comes back with a complaint they immediately adjust and respond with an incremental change to discover the next issue to be addressed. They build their timelines expecting constant minor revisions being needed to satisfy the client.

The failed licenses seem to act like once they buy the license, they have control of the IP. They set their timelines to their own schedule and when the holder demands revisions, view it as a delay put upon them by an outside source rather than part of the process of working with a product they don't own. They complain about the license holder dragging their feet and delaying the project, when, realistically it needs to be an expectation when making something that officially represents someone else's brand.

The models are 1/48 scale I believe, and I'd much rather have correctly proportioned figures when it's based off of a property. I don't want melonhead hamfist colonial marines just as much as I don't want melonhead hamfist Galadhrim or red eye orcs.

One thing Prodos did right is absolutely beautiful sculpts and figures.

Much of what you posted Grot 6 is incorrect. The only plastic figures they released were the clear Predators a month ago.

 Motograter wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
FYI Disney is not "canceling" licenses. I talked to Dark Horse Comics and they said that it's bunk; they have the Aliens, Predator, and AVP licenses for many more years. Draw your own conclusions as to how Prodos lost theirs. (and as far as I am aware, they had the license for the AVP computer game? no other films, books, characters, likenesses, etc)

Also remember Knight Models dropped Marvel once Disney bought them as it was too expensive to keep the licenses for what their sales where and actually got Harry Potter from WB cheaper.

Lol no. Marvel dropped Knight models cos km are a screw up of a company who didn't do as they were asked

Lol no. Think again.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Motograter wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
FYI Disney is not "canceling" licenses. I talked to Dark Horse Comics and they said that it's bunk; they have the Aliens, Predator, and AVP licenses for many more years. Draw your own conclusions as to how Prodos lost theirs. (and as far as I am aware, they had the license for the AVP computer game? no other films, books, characters, likenesses, etc)

Also remember Knight Models dropped Marvel once Disney bought them as it was too expensive to keep the licenses for what their sales where and actually got Harry Potter from WB cheaper.

Lol no. Marvel dropped Knight models cos km are a screw up of a company who didn't do as they were asked

Lol no. Think again.

I just know I haven’t given KM a dime since they dropped the Marvel line, and they won’t see any more cash from me. I’m still bitter.

I feel bad for everyone still fighting with prodos. Sculpts looked awesome. In the meantime, is Mantic one of the only big companies who have a successful (rather two!) IPs going? Walking Dead and Hellboy?

 timetowaste85 wrote:

I feel bad for everyone still fighting with prodos. Sculpts looked awesome. In the meantime, is Mantic one of the only big companies who have a successful (rather two!) IPs going? Walking Dead and Hellboy?

I assume we're talking about only miniatures lines and not counting FFG (Star Wars) and WizKids (Star Trek, though their sustained success is far more arguable)? Technically GW counts as well especially since they've somewhat re-launched LotR which would be a licensed IP. The trend there though is that these are massive mainstream IPs and while Aliens is certainly popular enough to sustain a franchise, I think the rabidity of some fanbases cause companies to overvalue/overpay for the licenses which then leads to it not being worth it.

In this specific case I would say it was more the company making continual missteps and lacking basic honesty with backers about how badly they were underestimating things until they were forced to admit things. The bizarre behavior of the principals seems more to blame than a lack of strength in the IP, but a lot of other licenses have seemed to have been poorly timed (Terminator) or a odd fit for the genre (Doctor Who).

It all really depends what you mean by successful, and whether it modifies IPs or games.

There are some out there: Game of Thrones, Fall Out, Strontium Dog, Harry Potter, etc.

I will miss AVP. The models were great.

> In the meantime, is Mantic one of the only big companies who have a successful (rather two!) IPs going? Walking Dead and Hellboy?

I guess so! (: As I understand it, these IPs are for the comics, not the television or movie series, so I would guess that this means less corporate suits to deal with. Both comic book creators own their comic book IP's, I think. (Compare this with Marvel and DC.)

Speaking of DC, Monolith seems to have their IPs under control, with their Conan and Batman KS games. Both, however, are expensive to produce, with Conan discontinuing retail distribution (although you can find base games on clearance) and Batman KS exclusive. (Expensive games may be a Monolith trait, not an IP one, since they also made Claustrophobia KS only, iirc?)

Depends on where you draw the line for big and successful. Knight has the IP for Batman and Harry Potter. Steamforged has Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Horizon Zero Dawn, and I heard the posted another new Kickstarter this week but I don’t recall what it was.

 AduroT wrote:
Depends on where you draw the line for big and successful. Knight has the IP for Batman and Harry Potter. Steamforged has Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Horizon Zero Dawn, and I heard the posted another new Kickstarter this week but I don’t recall what it was.

Planet of the Apes? (both the recent movie series and the original film)

 AduroT wrote:
Depends on where you draw the line for big and successful. Knight has the IP for Batman and Harry Potter. Steamforged has Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Horizon Zero Dawn, and I heard the posted another new Kickstarter this week but I don’t recall what it was.

Devil May Cry

 LunarSol wrote:


Devil May Cry

I didnt need to know that