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 Azazelx wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
With each passing year, I'm amazed that GW actually survive.
Vallejo and Tamiya do better and cheaper paints. Dozens of companies out there do better and cheaper terrain.
And GW's games and rules-creators are amateurs compared to the dozens of top, niche indy companies out there who make better.

I'm a big fan of Bolt Action, and recently I played 8th 40k, and the contrast was like night and day. Bolt Action is not perfect, but 8th was a bloated mess in comparison.
To go from a Alessio Cavatore/Rick Priestly designed game, to 8th, was like going from a brand new Ferrari back to a 1980s Ford Escort.

I suppose they make nice, but expensive models at times, and each to their own, but GW ain't for me anymore


"Better" in ALL of the examples you've given is an subjective term, rather than an objective one. I also note that you rather downplay the quality of the models, which is kinda important to any discussion about GW. In that, you also need to think about the price/quality as well as the breadth of their range, because while other companies can be better on one of the three, you'll be hard pressed to find many that beat them on two of those, let alone any on all three.

List for me some of the dozens of companies who do better AND cheaper terrain. Seriously. I'm always looking for more quality terrain.

Ultimately, the main point you make is pretty much the last bit, which I've bolded in your post.


I agree that 'better' is a subjective term, but let me give you the example of paint. GW paint is good, IMO, but Vallejo and Tamiya's paint is of an equal quality, if not higher. Vallejo's paints are cheaper, and give you more. 17ml compared to 12ml. That is 'better' in my book any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Tamiya give you 10ml as opposed to the Citadel 12ml per bottle, but Tamiya paint is much cheaper, so that small difference is compensated by the fact that I get more. Again, that is better in my book. And the Tamiya range of spray paints is light years ahead of GW.

Rules is another area, and I repeat the example I gave above. I play Bolt Action, then I had a game of 40k to help a nephew of mine who is getting into the hobby, and it was like going from university back to kindergarten. Bolt Action is not perfect, but God Almighty, it was like night and day.

And there is no excuse for this. Why, because when somebody like Mat Ward did some indy work for Frostgrave, his stuff was half-decent. He obviously does what he's told at GW, and the end result is models first, rules second. Everything is just PR to sell killer robot of the month, which is why 40k is the horrible half-way house of epic 40k and a skirmish game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
With each passing year, I'm amazed that GW actually survive.

Vallejo and Tamiya do better and cheaper paints. Dozens of companies out there do better and cheaper terrain.

And GW's games and rules-creators are amateurs compared to the dozens of top, niche indy companies out there who make better.


In this regard, GW really is like Apple: they don't sell just individual products, they sell you an ecosystem. You can get everything you need from GW: the rules, the books, the models, the paint, the terrain, the tools, the glue, the dice, even the measuring tape...everything. You don't have to step outside of a GW store to get anything else to build your army and play the game. And people pay the full GW price for the convenience of it, and also because many of them may not even know they have other options.

Sure, the stores and the way GW ran them were a millstone around their neck for years, but under current GW leadership a lot of things are turning around.


I agree, the one stop shop for convenience is a good tactic for GW, but when you're at my age

You need substance.

I'm the first to admit I liked GW and have had wonderful times and hours of enjoyment in the past with their products. But my GW was the 1980s/1990s, and that's long gone.

For better or for worse, It's not for me anymore, but I never try and prohibit people from buying from a company. I wouldn't like it if people did it to me.

The thread asks for opinions, and this is mine. Take it or leave it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/16 16:45:18


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In terms of the GW Hobby, it is worth remembering that not only do they sell all the bits you’ll need, but everything is designed for their games.

Imperial Sector and Sector Mechanicus Terrain in particular are specific heights for their floors. Not just so they’re compatible, but so the work within the game environment.

A few years back, there was the Hex terrain by another company, the proper name of which escapes me. Absolutely lovely stuff. Good quality plastic, well designed and engineered. But, a bit too small for 40k or Necromunda.

With GW’s offerings, you know it’ll be up to snuff, be that tools, glue, paints, brushes etc. And whilst one can find better quality out there, that’s not to say GW’s stuff is therefore low quality. It’s all perfectly serviceable, and easily obtained. That helps keep people spending, and in your store. If a newer customer wasn’t able to source clippers for example, that seemingly small hurdle could nix them going further.

In fact I’m honestly surprised that GW hasn’t marketed a suitably branded airbrush and compressor. That’s about the one thing they don’t sell themselves, despite having a full range of air paints.

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Grotsnik - agreed when they were teasing their new paint "thing" earlier in the year an airbrush system was what I thought we'd be getting - a compressor and brush system likely with the warhammer logo stamped on the compressor.

I guess its still too niche a market item for GW to really push for even though they are happy to make paints.

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Don't they sell an airbrush? I thought I had seen one.

GW terrain and stuff is actualy TOO personalised for me these days. The over the top aesthetic makes their stuff of limited use outside their specific games, I prefer something a bit more universal and generic.

All good quality stuff these days, just a bit too specific for my taste. Hell, even between games it is super specific.

   
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They used to sell a spraygun, which is an unadjustable spray device that you use for base coating a color you can't find as a spray paint.

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 Overread wrote:

GW is a healthy multi-million but they are a very very long way from the billions.


I didn't say Billions, I said Billion. It has been widely reported over the last 12/18 months that GW's market value reached a Billion pounds, which easily makes it a billion DOLLAR company. Which IS what I said.

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It's not a question of any sort of reporting, it simply is. Just google their share price and check the Market Cap.

For those unfamiliar, the market cap is the share price multiplied by the number of shares issued, a fairly basic but nevertheless important method of determining a company's worth.

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I bet it was actually Megablocks that almost killed Lego. They were soooo much cooler than Legos

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 timetowaste85 wrote:
Personally, I think GW is merchandising the way they are because they’re comfortable with the two main games as is, will do minor tweaks but no more huge shakeups, most plastic stuff is awesome (I don’t ever expect to see new GDs, for example, they’re all perfect) and won’t get redone, so once the ranges are finished and the armies all updated...merchandising and cashing in on being the biggest name in Wargaming.


Oh that's funny. They make their money on the rulebooks not the models. I've used the same models for 7 editions now. I've bought far more books. New editions are GW's planned obsolescence. And it's been pretty regular too, check release dates.

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 Azreal13 wrote:
 Overread wrote:
That said GW is a big enough name in the industry that chances are there'd be a lot of talent willing and eager to work for them and a good chance many of those talented in the creative arts would have, at one time, been inspired by GW's history. So in that line they've managed to build their own legacy. True finding those people and paying for them might be hard, but I think a "brain drain" wouldn't be the real issue.


I'm sorry, no, I don't agree.

To use a sporting analogy, there's thousands of professional footballers in Europe, every single one of them would likely want to play for Manchester City, Bayern Munich, Barcelona etc. out of those thousands, only a small percentage would be considered as good enough by those clubs. Out of that small percentage, a proportion that showed promise just won't work out, and most will simply be "good enough."

Against that background, you get your Ronaldos and your Messis, talent that only comes along a handful of times in each generation.

What GW currently have are individuals that have that stature within the niche that they live in.

One day they'll need to replace those people, and the fact is I think it's quite possible that the equivalent talent may simply not exist when they do.

This is a very real problem for all creative companies, and given that much of the "GW-ness" of GW seems to reside in a handful of people, it could be a big one.


GW has already gotten to that point. As soon as Gathering Storm came out, 40k just started feeling less "40k" Even if some of these writers are why 40ks background got so amazing in the first place, people can always lose their touch or motivation. Im sure you can think of some bands you used to listen to and love, that just dont sound good anymore, even though they are trying to recreate their golden days. You hear a few tracks and then you know that the band just doesnt have that spark anymore. Its sad, but happens too often.

Thats about where GW is at. Only thing is, I still kind of think they have the potential to make magic again. I dont think all is completley lost yet (but it feels damn close)

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Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.

Collection:
AM/IG - 122nd Terrax Guard: 2094/3000pts
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts 
   
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 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
With each passing year, I'm amazed that GW actually survive.

Vallejo and Tamiya do better and cheaper paints. Dozens of companies out there do better and cheaper terrain.

And GW's games and rules-creators are amateurs compared to the dozens of top, niche indy companies out there who make better.


In this regard, GW really is like Apple: they don't sell just individual products, they sell you an ecosystem. You can get everything you need from GW: the rules, the books, the models, the paint, the terrain, the tools, the glue, the dice, even the measuring tape...everything. You don't have to step outside of a GW store to get anything else to build your army and play the game. And people pay the full GW price for the convenience of it, and also because many of them may not even know they have other options.

Sure, the stores and the way GW ran them were a millstone around their neck for years, but under current GW leadership a lot of things are turning around.


The current way they run them is going to hurt them in the long run too. For most people, especially the mid to late teens for the next generation, they can't have a table set up in an extra bedroom or the garage. They need to be able to provide tables and play space.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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I disagree that the stores are a millstone.

Sure, they're not necessarily individually profitable. But they've things in place to cut out stores which repeatedly underperform.

And those stores give them something none of their competitors have - High Street Presence. That's a way to get new blood in the others cannot access so readily.

See, GW can afford higher rents, and thus better placing, than a given FLGS. In the UK, that typically means 'just, and only just off the beaten track' locations. Just far enough away from the primest of prime locations, but close enough to be easily found, and importantly, stumbled across.

And once you're through those doors, they've the kit and caboodle to send you home as a New Hobbyist. And every sale is money in GW's pockets.

FLGS do offer a broadly similar in-road. Except in a FLGS, there are multiple company's products on sale. That introduces competition straight off the bat. You're also then at the whim of the FLGS owner's own preferences in games. If they're not into your game, and never really push it? That can be an issue for your growth in that area.

FLGS are also more exposed to closure risks than GW stores. If a given FLGS doesn't hit it's rent, that's pretty much it. If a given GW (well, Warhammer now, I suppose!) doesn't hit it's rent, the loss is absorbed by the general Beast that is GW as a corporate whole.

That means GW's own stores bring consistency of presence in the majority of cases. So a new customer can be confident of a return visit being fruitful.

Sorry. I'm waffling.

Short version? The Stores allow GW to better compete in the wider Hobby market. So whilst there is an associated cost involved, they provide a greater benefit in return.

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Breton wrote:
 timetowaste85 wrote:
Personally, I think GW is merchandising the way they are because they’re comfortable with the two main games as is, will do minor tweaks but no more huge shakeups, most plastic stuff is awesome (I don’t ever expect to see new GDs, for example, they’re all perfect) and won’t get redone, so once the ranges are finished and the armies all updated...merchandising and cashing in on being the biggest name in Wargaming.


Oh that's funny. They make their money on the rulebooks not the models. I've used the same models for 7 editions now. I've bought far more books. New editions are GW's planned obsolescence. And it's been pretty regular too, check release dates.


Average player buys rulebook+codex+chapter approved=about 100e. Models will easily be 300-400e. Models are plastic aka practically free. Book production costs more=profit margin per money is bigger for models. Aka more of that 400e goes for profit than the 100e. Models is where profit comes from. That's why GW keeps changing points and rules to ensure people keep buying new models.

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I'm from the future. The future of space

In the last financial report GW outlined the things that they look at for each individual product and project at the board of directors level. Two key factors for them are return on capital and margin.

So for every release, every license project, everything, they look at how much money it will cost them and how much money they will make given some likely sales numbers. And they appear to be conservative and safe in their estimates because nothing will kill their return on capital faster than losses. They'd rather have to rush ship the second batch of contrast paints after a successful preorder than ship too many in the first wave hoping that they'll sell.

GW has also got a long history of really watching their costs. When their LOTR volume crashed in the mid 2000s, they were caught unawares and had lots of excess capacity. Their margins at the time were not great so when they lost volume they had no real choice but to cut costs and crank prices up again and again to get to the point where their margins are truly excellent. Yes, the increased prices caused further volume reductions but their cost savings from cuts were simply larger than the declining volume so they mostly stayed profitable through their decline, with only a year or two actually being money losing years.

So not only are they very concerned about how the money that goes into each and every project produces a return, they are very concerned that the costs involved never spiral out of control.

One positive thing from the Wells and Kirby era of GW is they are very risk adverse. Rountree was a senior accountant and later the chief financial officer during those years. Now he's in charge. So the guy who oversaw the actual return to growth through doing all the things Kirby would not do, also has the direct experience of keeping costs under control and keeping margins and profit intact during GW's years of decline.

One thing Rountree has changed from the Kirby era is that they now have a sane dividend policy. They are not paying out previous year's profits or even borrowing money to pay a dividend that's most or even more than their earnings. So they're not depleting cash reserves to pay overly large dividends. So they're being safe their as well.

People have been talking about GW for years during the declining Kirby years and Rountree has done pretty much everything I could have asked for from both a customer and investment perspective.

And even if it all goes wrong somehow, they can still just de-risk and cut and go back to their managed decline Well/Kirby mode until they can find a way to make sales again. And because every project is both planned and reviewed with regards to margin and return on capital, they'll see any pattern of decline forming long before any of us will.

It feels so strange to write a post talking about how safe GW is given they are still in a period of rapid growth and record profitability. During their slow managed decline people would call those of us analysing their financials "doom sayers" and "naysayers" but we'd always point out that GW had no debt, good margins and could likely finance a decade of actual losses before having to close. Only Wayshuba actually predicted a demise for GW and I only thought that was possible if they had some sort of catastrophic revenue shock that I couldn't see a source for. They even had amazing credit access lined up during the 2009 financial crisis.

GW has done pretty much everything I've suggested in those many financial threads over the years. 1) They now have very low barrier to entry games and products. Whether it's low cost AoS and 40k Starters like First Strike or complete game in a box with models to paint like Underworlds (shadespire, nightvault) or Kill Team. 2) They made rules that work at lower model counts and work as you increase towards the full size game. 3) They use the internet to market their stuff. They stream and do warhammer tv videos in a way that shows they understand that their brand can also be a media company. 4) They stopped suing everyone and threatening to sick lawyers on fan websites. 5) They offer discounted prices on some bundle products like start collecting. 6) They're harnessing volunteers in the form of their playtesters, event and school club organisers. 7) They actually want to hear from their customers and have social media teams and run massive customer feedback surveys. 8) They are doing outside marketing with their conquest parts magazine in Europe (distribution costs make that less valuable in North America) and 9) they are finding the right combination of staff and locations to open more stores while closing loss making ones. 10) They have adopted a sane dividend policy where they are not sacrificing cash reserves or reinvestment in order to inflate the dividend.

TLDR? From their latest major trade announcement:

"Games Workshop is pleased to announce that the sales and profit growth, which was discussed in the trading update released on 12 April 2019, has continued in the period to the end of the financial year. Sales growth has been across all sales channels."

https://investor.games-workshop.com/2019/06/07/trading-update-on-close-of-financial-year-ended-2-june-2019/

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/06/17 12:34:32


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
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Eye of Terror

Hrm.

The goal of this merchandising is to find profitable new lines of business. In terms of impact, eventually, this pursuit will to lead to the demise of 40k / AOS as we know them.

The #1 reason people don't play miniature games is the cost to buy in. You have to buy models, you have to buy rules so you know what models to buy, you have to learn how to paint them, and you have to find people with similar tastes to play with.

It's not like a video game, where you tap a button and get started.

While I like 40k for the reasons stated above, there are a lot more people interested in mindless entertainment that requires little in terms of personal creativity. Eventually, something else is going to come along that is just as entertaining as a good game of 40k but requires less work to get 'good' at it.

Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. But I see those Funko Pop figures and think to myself, there's a certain group that prefers their sci-fi entertainment cutesy and non-threatening. They probably outnumber the people who enjoy the grimdark by a large margin. A billion dollar company is going to find them and figure out ways to serve their needs. It may not be possible to do cutesy and grimdark within the same company...


   
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The existence of Gloomspite Gits and Gryph-Hounds would argue otherwise ...
   
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A lot of 3rd party stores would rather you walked in and played magic the gathering or yugio than Warhammer or Warmachine. Basically card games are very small to stock in shelf space, very cheap to buy and so easily do both bulk sales and small opportune sales; and they all pretty much cycle their content very aggressively. Magic the Gathering basically has a rolling annual update, whilst there's a core that remains broadly similar; the blocks that surround it only last about a year before they cycle out of standard and this is before you add the one-off releases on top. Heck they even have a game mode where you buy cards, build a deck and play all as part of the game (booster draft).

It's very high profit for the stores and a high volume seller that doesn't take up much space.

Wargames are almost the opposite on all fronts; plus whilst you can have a couple of tables and run a magic club very easily (each table might easily seat two or three games - that's 4-6 customers); whilst a wargame might want two tables worth of space for just 2 gamers. With retail being hotly aggressive these days many game stores have little enough space to show stock let alone have table space for games.


Honestly whilst the GW stores might be a very expensive millstone in terms of rent and rates (esp in a highstreet and tax situation that basically does NOT want shops on the highstreet any more); they also help advertise and recruit new gamers for wargames at a fantastic rate. They are a reliable fixed spot with table space, skilled staff and overall a wide range of warhammer product to advertise and sell. GW has always had staff who are good gamers - making them enthusiastic and able to play and paint to a decent standard enough to help draw in customers (at least in the UK stores).


If GW hit really hard times they could sacrifice the stores, but at the same time I think GW has a powerful eye on recruiting the next generation. I think they've seen the likes of Mecanno, Hornby, Airfix and such all dwindle and basically die off save for an old-guard of more senior fans. Furthermore no one else in wargamming is really recruiting on GW's scale; most in fact tend to rely on leaching off GW customers; whilst historical games are somewhat like photography and art clubs - full of senior members with very few and no real drive or younger members.

GW I think has seen that pattern and doesn't want to fall into the trap of running out of customers because they all grew up; got families, moved on and died. Even in the Kirby era they were hot to push for new customers, if not perhaps a bit too much and they appeared to hold less value for the established under that management system.






As for merchandise I think there's enough gamers within GW's management structure that they wouldn't abandon their core market. Heck chase Funkopops? Gw are big, but they are nothing near as big as things like the Marvel Toy companies and the like. Furthermore many of those companies don't survive on one single release of toys set to one lore; they release multitudes tied into films and updated franchises - heck the DC/Marvel comics have a rebirth of most of their main lines every so often.

GW deals with a totally different kind of market, a totally different kind of customer. Wargamers don't want a game that's here today gone next year; they are looking 3-4 years ahead if not further.
Plus trying to go up against the giants who have years of trading behind them GW would likely come unstuck. FAR better for them to ally with them; let Funko Pop licence the GW franchise, make some stuff and GW has to do nothing but take the payment/royalties. They don't have to rebuild their factories; don't have to compete with big names; they don't have to take on any of the risk and they still make a healthy profit at the end.

Sure some might interpret that they could make more money in other markets, but when they don't have any real resources in those markets at it is the costs to get in there and the potential pitfall mistakes could be extreme in a crippling nature.

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They've also diversified their main offerings.

Start Collecting aside, there's also Blackstone Fortress, Underworlds, Necromunda et al. All mighty fine games with a very definite spending ceiling.

Underworlds is phenomenally cheap to get into. Not just for GW, but for the wider Hobby as a whole. And each additional team you may or may not want is a piffling £17.50, and doesn't need anything else to make it work.

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I could see the miniatures manufacturing side of things ending, with Games Workshop becoming a publishing house and an IP licencing holding company, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.

Also, as I was re-arranging my iBooks library, I tripped over the 7th edition 40k rules and codexes; making them digital has the advantage that there's basically zero cost to keeping the rules available even if they stop actively manuifacturing games.
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They've also diversified their main offerings.

Start Collecting aside, there's also Blackstone Fortress, Underworlds, Necromunda et al. All mighty fine games with a very definite spending ceiling.

Underworlds is phenomenally cheap to get into. Not just for GW, but for the wider Hobby as a whole. And each additional team you may or may not want is a piffling £17.50, and doesn't need anything else to make it work.


Yeah plus Killteam you can get into with troop box, which whilst more varied than £17 (some are that area some are twice as much); still gives you a fun game to play with 1 model purchase. Heck if you're gaming you don't even need to start buying any of the books, you can likely learn from the other gamers at the store and use theirs/store copy for a while.

I fully expect to see around christmas or into the new year/Q2 of 2020 to see a formal AoS Skirmish boxed set and book much like we have for Killteam. That is unless Warcry slips in and replaces it - which it could easily do.

The other thing is GW isn't just introducing these things ,but is keeping the marketing on them hot. This means not only is there Killteam and Shadspire, but people are at large playing them. In the past we had 500 point 40K games and even the same for Fantasy; but they were nestled in the back of the "big book" and were not marketed all that heavily by GW. They were there as an option but they weren't "shown" to be there nor marketed so new gamers often didn't realise they existed from a casual glance because most of the local games would be 2K battles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I could see the miniatures manufacturing side of things ending, with Games Workshop becoming a publishing house and an IP licencing holding company, but I doubt it'll happen any time soon.


Yes and no. That would work short term, but long term how long would GW retain a market hold and interest if they were no longer making models. Ergo how long could their Lore really hold out. Baring in mind that of things of the same generation about the only thing that has lasted that long is Starwars and they still had to make some films to get it a fresh injection of energy - though it did persist stronger than most. It's easy to suppose that right now GW's IP is strong enough, but at the same time take away the hobby market and I'd expect that market interest to dwindle. In fact if GW stopped making models I'd expect it after a long decline or sudden disaster - either way would spell doom for marketing because their core market would be VERY upset.

How many wargamers are going to buy or encourage others to buy a bobble head space marine when they can't buy any more space marines and have to go to 3rd party companies; when the rules are gone; the stores closed and the hobby is ended.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/17 13:07:37


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I

See, GW can afford higher rents, and thus better placing, than a given FLGS. In the UK, that typically means 'just, and only just off the beaten track' locations. Just far enough away from the primest of prime locations, but close enough to be easily found, and importantly, stumbled across.



Maybe it's different opp your way Doc but my 'local' GW shops are not exactly in great locations, the charity shop zone, the very edge of the 'city centre' and virtually out of town respectively, in theory this shouldnt matter as they are destination locations or whatever the exact retail phrase is but now with the intertubes the toys can come to you rather than you going to the toys

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
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Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I

See, GW can afford higher rents, and thus better placing, than a given FLGS. In the UK, that typically means 'just, and only just off the beaten track' locations. Just far enough away from the primest of prime locations, but close enough to be easily found, and importantly, stumbled across.



Maybe it's different opp your way Doc but my 'local' GW shops are not exactly in great locations, the charity shop zone, the very edge of the 'city centre' and virtually out of town respectively, in theory this shouldnt matter as they are destination locations or whatever the exact retail phrase is but now with the intertubes the toys can come to you rather than you going to the toys


It varies region to region, but yes they are still in the decent "safe" parts of towns, not out in the sticks where you sort of feel like watching your back. I think the real key is that beyond school clubs, the stores act as a hub centre for gamers. You might buy all your models online from a store at the other end of the country, but you can go to your local to play or to network with other gamers. Schools might have hobby clubs, but once you leave the school system you can lose touch with them and finding a new local club can be hard as many don't advertise all that well if at all - so having a local store can be a hub spot where everyone goes and a good store manager will be aware of the local clubs/groups to point them out to customers (even if you don't game in the store that your'e gaming still generates money for GW).

Heck not all schools have a GW club, I know mine never did as it was sort of a "post" GW bubble period where all the gamers were older students and my generation might have dabbled in a box or two and that was it mostly. So again a local store becomes greatly important for servicing the social side of the hobby. I can see that being something GW would aim to continue if they ever lost their stores. Heck look at how Warmachine and Hordes almost collapsed overnight when PP did away with their Press Ganger program. Without that vested interest local rep helping to push games at the local level and encourage and work at promoting it a lot of those groups fell apart or shifted onto other games.

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Nuremberg

I run a roleplaying and miniatures club in my school, but I would never limit it to one company. I would feel that was unethical, I make sure my students see the full variety of what is available.

Interestingly, most of them want the Dungeons and Dragons miniatures rather than GW ones. Though one boy is really into AoS.

   
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Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Da Boss wrote:
I run a roleplaying and miniatures club in my school, but I would never limit it to one company. I would feel that was unethical, I make sure my students see the full variety of what is available.

Interestingly, most of them want the Dungeons and Dragons miniatures rather than GW ones. Though one boy is really into AoS.


Aye I'd agree, introduce them to lots and see what proves popular. Though clearly companies that provide a getting started pack and support material are likely going to be easier for you. Plus if GW makes enough noise in the right directions some schools might start hobby clubs off the back of the into packs without having teachers who are die-hard hobby fans. So that helps GW directly over their competition.

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Fixture of Dakka






My local GW is hosting a morning excursion for a couple of local school clubs - the kids get to come down, paint some models and play a game or two.
   
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Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

The kids are very status orientated. They quickly decided that Mantic's stuff was "cheap", and to them "cheap" is the same as uncool. They also want to know that the minis are "for" the game they really like. D&D is the favourite game, so they like getting minis for that game.
But they all think GWs minis are the coolest ones. So I think they have no worries with the teenage boy and girl market there.

   
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Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Da Boss wrote:
The kids are very status orientated. They quickly decided that Mantic's stuff was "cheap", and to them "cheap" is the same as uncool. They also want to know that the minis are "for" the game they really like. D&D is the favourite game, so they like getting minis for that game.
But they all think GWs minis are the coolest ones. So I think they have no worries with the teenage boy and girl market there.


Lol that said I think whilst mantic is good with being cheap and they've clearly got some creative ideas their painting and model sculpting appear to be about 20 years behind everyone else. They'd have been fantastic if they'd been competing with Old World fantasy way back in the day; but today they appear just not quite as good. Though I think they are improving, their new monster faction appears to be using more modern design aesthetics and approaches, though I think they've still got a bit of an uphill struggle.



Also have you made sure that they are introduced to important things in the gaming world? Such as the importance of the Dice Gods and Munchkin?


Also if they like DnD lots keep an eye on that Reaper Bones and their kickstarters - maybe not for the kids but you can easily get some really awesome things like two dragons fighting in the air or huge dragon models and such for very low prices. Ideal for DnD, esp if well painted up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/17 17:58:24


A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
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Fixture of Dakka






 Da Boss wrote:
They also want to know that the minis are "for" the game they really like. D&D is the favourite game, so they like getting minis for that game.


The bad habits set in early, it seems.
   
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Council of 13 Runner Up






 Overread wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
I run a roleplaying and miniatures club in my school, but I would never limit it to one company. I would feel that was unethical, I make sure my students see the full variety of what is available.

Interestingly, most of them want the Dungeons and Dragons miniatures rather than GW ones. Though one boy is really into AoS.


Aye I'd agree, introduce them to lots and see what proves popular. Though clearly companies that provide a getting started pack and support material are likely going to be easier for you. Plus if GW makes enough noise in the right directions some schools might start hobby clubs off the back of the into packs without having teachers who are die-hard hobby fans. So that helps GW directly over their competition.


They're also targeting Duke of Edinburgh (which they're accredited for) and the Scout Movement, sponsoring a specific badge, which now bears the winged hammer logo (and yes, I do know people involved in Scouting. So I may just see if I can bag one of those for myself )

Here's a link to the Scout Badge

To help with that, GW offer this. For free



That folks? That's your entry level plakkykrak. (work filter, hence dodgy spelling). Everything the kid needs to earn their badge.....and hook them in for a longer term.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
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[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

One of the reasons that some of the talented designers etc that have begun working with GW and then moved on is that they don't have anywhere left to get promoted to while the old guard of Blanche, Goodwin etc are still there

in footballing terms no matter how good Alex Fergusons deputies & assistants were they needed to move on if they wanted to be the boss

and generally most of the really talented will want to run things their way eventually

Once the old guard retires (or sadly dies in office) there will be senior posts to fill and a talented deputy will get a chance to shine (or burn out).

and since GW is in an expansive frame of mind at the moment its going to be a much more attractive place to stay around at than it was during the (later) Kirby era where all the studio was basically allowed to do was tinker with 40K & Fantasy

 
   
 
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