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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

 skchsan wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
All rules are only enforced through mutual agreement.
But not all mutual agreements are rules.


Yeah, but at that point who cares what the difference is?

I bet more people understand "rules" like the "rule of three," or ITC scoring, than really understanding the rules for piling in/consolidating in close combat.

The OP wasn't asking some sort of pseudo--legal question, which always reaches a predictable dead end due to the lack of third party arbiter. Instead, they were asking a question about norms, which is if it's okay to demand that an opponent more clearly mark different subfactions when they have different rules. The answer to that will be a solid, but not unanimous, "yes."

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






A sort of related question for all the people saying "oh it's fine as long as they stick something on them to distinguish units, or paint all the bases differently" or whatever – does it not bug you how terrible that would look?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

Karol wrote:
If rules isn't RAW, then it aint a rule. Then it is some sort of interpretation social thingy, where it works better for the person who can force the other one to fold. With RAW you fold only to the rule, not the other player and his social skills or status.


This is true only if you define "rule" in such a narrow way as to basically reach a tautology. Why yes, only the rules written in the core manual are core manual rules. Hurray for such insight! A truly is A!

40k requires a lot more material than that. We need missions, codices, FAQs, bonus datasheets, terrain guidelines, etc. You can hem and haw over what is actually the "rules," but they're part of the rules in any practical sense.


My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





 Polonius wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
All rules are only enforced through mutual agreement.
But not all mutual agreements are rules.


Yeah, but at that point who cares what the difference is?

I bet more people understand "rules" like the "rule of three," or ITC scoring, than really understanding the rules for piling in/consolidating in close combat.

The OP wasn't asking some sort of pseudo--legal question, which always reaches a predictable dead end due to the lack of third party arbiter. Instead, they were asking a question about norms, which is if it's okay to demand that an opponent more clearly mark different subfactions when they have different rules. The answer to that will be a solid, but not unanimous, "yes."
We are expected to follow all the rules of the game (You can only move the unit up to its Movement characteristics; you can only declare a charge if youre wihin 12" of your target, etc). Expected standards and etiquettes are not essentially "rules" per se, though "house rules" or any of that sort would undoubtedly fall within the subset of what a "rule" encompasses.

However, because these 'local laws' are not readily available to the general public without prior knowledge, anything that is outside of written rule that is available to the general public should be agreed upon by both parties prior to the game.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





'My army is painted as Ultramarines, but I'm running them exclusively as Raven Guard.'

Perfectly reasonable.

'My army is painted as Ultramarines, but one detachment is Ultramarines, one is Raven Guard, one is Salamanders, and they don't actually have flamers, they're plasma, and...'

Not reasonable at all.

The golden rule should be 'Is this confusing to my opponent?'. Needing to remember a laundry list of caveats and distinctions is definitely confusing, but I don't think running an entire army under a different Chapter's rules is unreasonable, and expecting people to always use the 'correct' rules is excessive.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

 Nazrak wrote:
A sort of related question for all the people saying "oh it's fine as long as they stick something on them to distinguish units, or paint all the bases differently" or whatever – does it not bug you how terrible that would look?


I would guess these armies already look pretty terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
skchsan wrote: We are expected to follow all the rules of the game (You can only move the unit up to its Movement characteristics; you can only declare a charge if youre wihin 12" of your target, etc). Expected standards and etiquettes are not essentially "rules" per se, though "house rules" or any of that sort would undoubtedly fall within the subset of what a "rule" encompasses.

However, because these 'local laws' are not readily available to the general public without prior knowledge, anything that is outside of written rule that is available to the general public should be agreed upon by both parties prior to the game.


Again, you fail to articulate a difference in what makes a rule a rule, other than notice or source. If you're expected to follow the RAW, and expected to follow standards and etiquette, and there is similar enforcement or lack there of, in what way is there a meaningful difference?

catbarf wrote:'My army is painted as Ultramarines, but I'm running them exclusively as Raven Guard.'

Perfectly reasonable.


Oddly, this is a recent change. there was serious drama in prior editions over whether this was even permissible!

'My army is painted as Ultramarines, but one detachment is Ultramarines, one is Raven Guard, one is Salamanders, and they don't actually have flamers, they're plasma, and...'

Not reasonable at all.

The golden rule should be 'Is this confusing to my opponent?'. Needing to remember a laundry list of caveats and distinctions is definitely confusing, but I don't think running an entire army under a different Chapter's rules is unreasonable, and expecting people to always use the 'correct' rules is excessive.


A lot of events, especially more casual ones, will say something like "it's okay to say that all flamers are plasmas. It's not okay to say that some flamers are flamers, and some are plasmas."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 16:50:13


My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





It's kinda getting hard every pick up game to be like :

Hello, this is my army. I play by Ro3, points not power level, WYSIWYG, no counts as, updated to most recent faq/book, I don't touch models until I am 100% going to move them, please don't touch my models, and no I won't play your themed army made up of Chaos Knights and GSC soup, please don't ask.

It's getting harder and harder to say "I play by the commonly accepted rules, and I didn't come to play a game that isn't 40k.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 17:21:30


 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
At what point is it ok to whip out WYSWYG rules, in a pick up game environment. Again, not tournament, but repeatedly getting people throwing these SM soup lists at me where all the models are blue, but THESE 5 are IF and THESE 5 are Ravenguard, and THESE 10 are.....Enough. Stop, you are hurting my soul here with your nonsense.

I'm all for the new life being breathed into SMs, but I'm sick of seeing all smurf lists being played as every other chapter, and I feel it's being used as a competitive advantage now, to trip up opponents. If I call it out I'm "that guy" for expecting my opponent to re-paint all his models now, or somehow alter them. Which makes me feel like a jerk, because some of these are REALLY well done.

How do you play WYSWYG in non-competitive games with the new codexes dropping everywhere? Do you hold a standard or ask your opponent to somehow mark them? Also, if they are playing this way, do you expect them to have the physical rules? Because that came up a few times, and I usually trust BScribe, but now it's just one more straw etc...


Yes, you're being a jerk.

As long as they're not trying to pull a fast one, and the 5 that are X abide by the rules for X and the 5 that are Y abide by the rules for Y, then it's legal.

It helps to have the definitions abide by general rules, or be visibly different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 17:22:33


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The object of the game is to have fun.

Arguments are not fun.

If your doing a behavior that causes arguments you are being the problem.


   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's kinda getting hard every pick up game to be like :

Hello, this is my army. I play by Ro3, points not power level, WYSIWYG, no counts as, updated to most recent faq/book, I don't touch models until I am 100% going to move them, please don't touch my models, and no I won't play your themed army made up of Chaos Knights and GSC soup, please don't ask.

It's getting harder and harder to say "I play by the commonly accepted rules, and I didn't come to play a game that isn't 40k.


What do you mean by this? It's pretty easy to get a pick up game as long as everybody is playing with the same standardized rules, such as Ro3, 2k points, all FAQ's, abiding by detachment keyword restrictions, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 17:25:00


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's kinda getting hard every pick up game to be like :

Hello, this is my army. I play by Ro3, points not power level, WYSIWYG, no counts as, updated to most recent faq/book, I don't touch models until I am 100% going to move them, please don't touch my models, and no I won't play your themed army made up of Chaos Knights and GSC soup, please don't ask.

It's getting harder and harder to say "I play by the commonly accepted rules, and I didn't come to play a game that isn't 40k.


This is why I play only competitive games and stay in the tourney scene. Better people, More fun, Better Experience.
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's kinda getting hard every pick up game to be like :

Hello, this is my army. I play by Ro3, points not power level, WYSIWYG, no counts as, updated to most recent faq/book, I don't touch models until I am 100% going to move them, please don't touch my models, and no I won't play your themed army made up of Chaos Knights and GSC soup, please don't ask.

It's getting harder and harder to say "I play by the commonly accepted rules, and I didn't come to play a game that isn't 40k.


What do you mean by this? It's pretty easy to get a pick up game as long as everybody is playing with the same standardized rules, such as Ro3, 2k points, all FAQ's, abiding by detachment keyword restrictions, etc.


Everything I mentioned is not a rule anywhere. So it's my personal play style, or if you will, my expectation. Ro3 isn't a rule, nor is touching of models, when to move a model, which FAQ to play by, themed lists, WYSIWYG, or power level over points. And literally what my post is describing, at the very least, is that the majority of casuals DON'T play by a set standard.

So, you say I'm being a jerk for setting a standard, and then tell me it's easy to play by a standard, just play by a standard?
   
Made in de
Witch Hunter in the Shadows



Aachen

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:

Often i find the same people who want to run the same models as 3 chapters will conveniently use whatever chapter tactic benefits the unit at the time like... oh they are mius 1 to hit due to being 12 inches away... then after wounds... ignoreing on 6 for iron hands. After that they get mad when you call them out on the horsegak of claiming the unit is both "oh honest mistake i was confused" "like motherf@(#er how do you think i feel having to track all your s#(*t"

Yeah that didn't happen.


can confirm had a player try and pull the both strats and get upset at me for pointing it out like "its an honest mistake" after pulling that gak all game (though usually it was not as brash as using the strats in the same phase on the same unit)


Gotta be honest, I made that mistake myself the last time I played Crimson Fists and Salamanders at the same time, trying to re-roll hits and wounds for the Crimson Fists. Yes, both chapters are painted in THEIR colours - I'm just that used to playing Salamanders. At least I caught myself trying to pull that most of the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reemule wrote:
The object of the game is to have fun.

Arguments are not fun.

If your doing a behavior that causes arguments you are being the problem.




But who's causing the argument - the one that plays 10 tactical marines as Salamanders and 10 other tactical marines as Iron Hands, while all 20 are painted the same white-and-blue colour scheme, or the person that doesn't want to play against someone like that?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/11 17:41:37


 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




 G00fySmiley wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:

Often i find the same people who want to run the same models as 3 chapters will conveniently use whatever chapter tactic benefits the unit at the time like... oh they are mius 1 to hit due to being 12 inches away... then after wounds... ignoreing on 6 for iron hands. After that they get mad when you call them out on the horsegak of claiming the unit is both "oh honest mistake i was confused" "like motherf@(#er how do you think i feel having to track all your s#(*t"

Yeah that didn't happen.


can confirm had a player try and pull the both strats and get upset at me for pointing it out like "its an honest mistake" after pulling that gak all game (though usually it was not as brash as using the strats in the same phase on the same unit)

its like people who get annoyed when you ask them what unit is in which transport and then call them out later for deciding a wave serpant with dire avengers declared on drop is the wave serpant now that has fire dragons because its closer to one of my battle wagons. and the other one is near an objective with grots so the dire avengers can take it easy.


Almost all games I have played versus people actually, actively cheating, it has been this blatant. Because if people who cheat were smart, they could win without cheating.

Willful cheating is almost always:

-Saying a dice result was something other than it was and quickly picking it up

-Blatantly fabricating rules or saying a model's stats are different from what they are.

-Cheating at the list-building step (Taking way more points than the other player has, or list-tailoring and taking wargear options based on what is in the opponent's army)

It's never some creative thing. I can absolutely see someone doing the -1 to hit and the 6+ fnp.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran






For those of you who don't own the codex or didn't read the part of the codex that's relevant to this 'conversation'...

GW has now clarified, in writing, as rules, that your paint job + iconography now 100% makes the decision of what chapter you are.

If you're color scheme and chapter symbol match Ultramatines... You are an Ultramarine and can only use the applicable Ultramarines rules.

If your color scheme and chapter symbol match that of a known successor chapter... You are that successor chapter and must use all applicable rules.

If your color scheme does not match Imperial Fists than you are not Imperial Fists and therefore cannot use the Imperial Fists rules.

There are of course mechanics in place (i.e. stratagems and other written rules) that provide a manner of flexibility, but overall GW has put their foot down; drawn a line in the sand... No more picking and choosing the best rules for game advantage. Your paint job + chapter symbol now 100% matters.

I expect and sincerely hope this carries over to other factions when their codex's are re-released.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's kinda getting hard every pick up game to be like :

Hello, this is my army. I play by Ro3, points not power level, WYSIWYG, no counts as, updated to most recent faq/book, I don't touch models until I am 100% going to move them, please don't touch my models, and no I won't play your themed army made up of Chaos Knights and GSC soup, please don't ask.

It's getting harder and harder to say "I play by the commonly accepted rules, and I didn't come to play a game that isn't 40k.


What do you mean by this? It's pretty easy to get a pick up game as long as everybody is playing with the same standardized rules, such as Ro3, 2k points, all FAQ's, abiding by detachment keyword restrictions, etc.


Everything I mentioned is not a rule anywhere. So it's my personal play style, or if you will, my expectation. Ro3 isn't a rule, nor is touching of models, when to move a model, which FAQ to play by, themed lists, WYSIWYG, or power level over points. And literally what my post is describing, at the very least, is that the majority of casuals DON'T play by a set standard.

So, you say I'm being a jerk for setting a standard, and then tell me it's easy to play by a standard, just play by a standard?


*eyeroll*

The Rule of Three is published on page 15 of the Warhammer 40k core rulebook FAQ under "Organized Event Guidelines." It's listed as the standard GW-issued recommendation for matched play events, with the caveat that an event organizer could see fit to modify it. While it is not technically a universally applicable rule neither is using the force organization chart or even being battle forged. It isn't a rule, yes, but it is a guideline that says that in a specific scenario, it becomes a rule. And because we play under the condition "as if this were an organized event as per the rules and guidelines accepted by the ITC," [if we aren't already playing in an organized event], the guideline is approved by the "event coordinator" and becomes a rule.

You can be deliberately obtuse about it, but I will have a pick-up game with my tournament-compliant army without any further discussion, but you will at least have to confirm with you opponent that they are willing to play a narrative game with your Chaos Knights + GSC.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in de
Witch Hunter in the Shadows



Aachen

 oni wrote:
For those of you who don't own the codex or didn't read the part of the codex that's relevant to this 'conversation'...

GW has now clarified, in writing, as rules, that your paint job + iconography now 100% makes the decision of what chapter you are.

If you're color scheme and chapter symbol match Ultramatines... You are an Ultramarine and can only use the applicable Ultramarines rules.

If your color scheme and chapter symbol match that of a known successor chapter... You are that successor chapter and must use all applicable rules.

If your color scheme does not match Imperial Fists than you are not Imperial Fists and therefore cannot use the Imperial Fists rules.

There are of course mechanics in place (i.e. stratagems and other written rules) that provide a manner of flexibility, but overall GW has put their foot down; drawn a line in the sand... No more picking and choosing the best rules for game advantage. Your paint job + chapter symbol now 100% matters.

I expect and sincerely hope this carries over to other factions when their codex's are re-released.


Could you please provide the page with that 'relevant' part of the codex then, for all of us uneducated Space Marine players?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 oni wrote:
For those of you who don't own the codex or didn't read the part of the codex that's relevant to this 'conversation'...

GW has now clarified, in writing, as rules, that your paint job + iconography now 100% makes the decision of what chapter you are.

If you're color scheme and chapter symbol match Ultramatines... You are an Ultramarine and can only use the applicable Ultramarines rules.

If your color scheme and chapter symbol match that of a known successor chapter... You are that successor chapter and must use all applicable rules.

If your color scheme does not match Imperial Fists than you are not Imperial Fists and therefore cannot use the Imperial Fists rules.

There are of course mechanics in place (i.e. stratagems and other written rules) that provide a manner of flexibility, but overall GW has put their foot down; drawn a line in the sand... No more picking and choosing the best rules for game advantage. Your paint job + chapter symbol now 100% matters.

I expect and sincerely hope this carries over to other factions when their codex's are re-released.


And I hope not because its silly on several fronts

1) Barring Marines, who get unique models for all of their special divisions, the other races don't. The difference between a Behemoth and Kracken Tyranid is NOTHING save for a handful of special rules that effect the army. That's it nothing else is different - same models, same equipment, same appearance. There's really no reason to "force" everyone to play by the same rules as marines when no one else gets the same kind of support.

2) It means that anyone who paints their own scheme is free to pick whatever they want. Considering that newbies are more likely to follow a studio suggested scheme this means new players are more likely to fall into the trap of getting "faction locked" whilst an experienced player might just use their own scheme to avoid it. It creates a situation where an attempt to enforce painting rules results in unfair bias within the painted model community.

3) GW has made most other factions have different subfaction groups which basically play to a single theme. So one hive fleet might have stat bonuses for ranged combat; another for close combat. I resent the idea that the colour of the model means that you must always stick to the single fleet. That even if you build an entirely close combat army you have to have the ranged bonuses because of the colour of the paint you've chosen to use.



Honestly much of this issue could be resolved by simply doing away with a lot of the soup problems that 40K has and which AoS has managed to thankfully avoid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nekooni wrote:
 oni wrote:
For those of you who don't own the codex or didn't read the part of the codex that's relevant to this 'conversation'...

GW has now clarified, in writing, as rules, that your paint job + iconography now 100% makes the decision of what chapter you are.

If you're color scheme and chapter symbol match Ultramatines... You are an Ultramarine and can only use the applicable Ultramarines rules.

If your color scheme and chapter symbol match that of a known successor chapter... You are that successor chapter and must use all applicable rules.

If your color scheme does not match Imperial Fists than you are not Imperial Fists and therefore cannot use the Imperial Fists rules.

There are of course mechanics in place (i.e. stratagems and other written rules) that provide a manner of flexibility, but overall GW has put their foot down; drawn a line in the sand... No more picking and choosing the best rules for game advantage. Your paint job + chapter symbol now 100% matters.

I expect and sincerely hope this carries over to other factions when their codex's are re-released.


Could you please provide the page with that 'relevant' part of the codex then, for all of us uneducated Space Marine players?


Last time I recall reading this rule it was in the GW tournament organising pack. Ergo it was aimed at being a rule for tournaments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 18:05:11


A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in de
Witch Hunter in the Shadows



Aachen

 Overread wrote:

Last time I recall reading this rule it was in the GW tournament organising pack. Ergo it was aimed at being a rule for tournaments.

oni claimed it's in the codex. I am unable to find that in the codex I have with me, and I highly doubt that it was lost when they translated it to the German language. p108 doesn't talk about paint colour, nor do pages 174 and 176. Page 108 at some point even says that you CHOOSE to assign a chapter to a model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 18:11:16


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




nekooni wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:

Often i find the same people who want to run the same models as 3 chapters will conveniently use whatever chapter tactic benefits the unit at the time like... oh they are mius 1 to hit due to being 12 inches away... then after wounds... ignoreing on 6 for iron hands. After that they get mad when you call them out on the horsegak of claiming the unit is both "oh honest mistake i was confused" "like motherf@(#er how do you think i feel having to track all your s#(*t"

Yeah that didn't happen.


can confirm had a player try and pull the both strats and get upset at me for pointing it out like "its an honest mistake" after pulling that gak all game (though usually it was not as brash as using the strats in the same phase on the same unit)


Gotta be honest, I made that mistake myself the last time I played Crimson Fists and Salamanders at the same time, trying to re-roll hits and wounds for the Crimson Fists. Yes, both chapters are painted in THEIR colours - I'm just that used to playing Salamanders. At least I caught myself trying to pull that most of the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reemule wrote:
The object of the game is to have fun.

Arguments are not fun.

If your doing a behavior that causes arguments you are being the problem.




But who's causing the argument - the one that plays 10 tactical marines as Salamanders and 10 other tactical marines as Iron Hands, while all 20 are painted the same white-and-blue colour scheme, or the person that doesn't want to play against someone like that?

Sorry but y'all play with some slow ass people and might need to to focus yourselves.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





UK

 Nevelon wrote:
I would prefer my opponents keep it down to three things that are not WYSWYG, and make sure they are broad categories and consistent. All my bikes are WS, all flamers are plasma. Stuff like that. Once I start needing to ask what everything thing is every turn, the fun goes away quickly.

Seems reasonable

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brothercastor/
[800] Ultramarines
[1500] Chaos Knights 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






nekooni wrote:
 Overread wrote:

Last time I recall reading this rule it was in the GW tournament organising pack. Ergo it was aimed at being a rule for tournaments.

oni claimed it's in the codex. I am unable to find that in the codex I have with me, and I highly doubt that it was lost when they translated it to the German language. p108 doesn't talk about paint colour, nor do pages 174 and 176. Page 108 at some point even says that you CHOOSE to assign a chapter to a model.


This is what they are referencing.




A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in de
Witch Hunter in the Shadows



Aachen

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sorry but y'all play with some slow ass people and might need to to focus yourselves.

I'm playing to have fun and relax, not to win. Mistakes happen, that's all I was trying to say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 Grimtuff wrote:
nekooni wrote:
 Overread wrote:

Last time I recall reading this rule it was in the GW tournament organising pack. Ergo it was aimed at being a rule for tournaments.

oni claimed it's in the codex. I am unable to find that in the codex I have with me, and I highly doubt that it was lost when they translated it to the German language. p108 doesn't talk about paint colour, nor do pages 174 and 176. Page 108 at some point even says that you CHOOSE to assign a chapter to a model.


This is what they are referencing.


How does that affect anyone that's choosing to make their Chapter SALAMANDERS though? They're not using those pages, nor that successor trait. All it says is that IF you chose to play as e.g. STORM LORDS, and then only IF you chose to pick that specific Successor Tactic, you are then limited to the known First Founding Chapter tactic.

You can't run STORM LORDS and use the Imperial Fists CT, but you can run the same models as IRON LADIES , and you're free to do whatever then. It's not the paint, it's the chapter you chose to assign to your models.

edited: Just to add my opinion on why that is: This prevents people from picking a successor chapter that has actual rules, e.g. datasheets, that are meant to work with a specific Chapter Tactic, and match them up with a completely unintended Chapter Tactic - just like it's not allowed to take Tigurius with the Black Templar Chapter Tactic.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/09/11 18:25:28


 
   
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I can see where this is coming from. My friend will do this with his Tau.

"all these guys are borkan, all these guys are farsight, etc"

So I'll say no you're not being "that guy" about it. Don't even get me started on my DE friend and his combat drugs, which is another invisible rule. I think I'm gonna have to pick up squad markers for them
   
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As long as I have some easy way to differentiate between the various stuff, I don't mind if it ain't WYSIWYG.
   
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 fraser1191 wrote:
I can see where this is coming from. My friend will do this with his Tau.

"all these guys are borkan, all these guys are farsight, etc"

So I'll say no you're not being "that guy" about it. Don't even get me started on my DE friend and his combat drugs, which is another invisible rule. I think I'm gonna have to pick up squad markers for them

Yeah - and with Tau that's actually pretty legit since their paint scheme is literally just "the camo scheme most common to the planet that sept represents". My Tau army is painted entirely in a city camo, but I've used two different colors for the sept markings - so some are Sa'cea and some are Bork'an
   
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Yeah, that may be what oni was referencing, but it doesn't even vaguely say what he claimed.

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nekooni wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:


Reemule wrote:
The object of the game is to have fun.

Arguments are not fun.

If your doing a behavior that causes arguments you are being the problem.




But who's causing the argument - the one that plays 10 tactical marines as Salamanders and 10 other tactical marines as Iron Hands, while all 20 are painted the same white-and-blue colour scheme, or the person that doesn't want to play against someone like that?


Ohh 100% wysiwyg here man.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 18:31:50


 
   
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Voss wrote:
Yeah, that may be what oni was referencing, but it doesn't even vaguely say what he claimed.


For the record, I don't own the SM dex, but I recall that image from a similar discussion on Reddit a couple weeks back. No idea if there is anything else similar such as what is in the tournament rules for Warhammer World.



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I think it’s perfectly fine to play models with whichever sub-faction rules you feel like playing that day. If my opponent wants to play a 2000 point game and has a different sub-faction for each of their three detachments it doesn’t bother me at all, regardless of how each detachment is painted. If I’m ever unsure about what’s what I can just ask.
   
 
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