General opinion on modeling weapons differently (count as)?

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**Slayer-Fan123**

My problem mostly revolves around the Sword not being that big or anything, so it doesn't exactly look unwieldy. I wouldn't care, but if you wanted to really go that route you should look for some REALLY big Swords that are almost ridiculous.

**TheFleshIsWeak**

I've got a related question for you guys - when it comes to using count-as stuff, are you any more lenient when the unit in question has few/no options?

e.g. Would you be more lenient of Shadowseer/Death Jester conversions (the former having 1 option, the latter having none) than, say, Troupe Master conversions (which has several different weapon options)?

**Not Online!!!**

TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
I've got a related question for you guys - when it comes to using count-as stuff, are you any more lenient when the unit in question has few/no options?

e.g. Would you be more lenient of Shadowseer/Death Jester conversions (the former having 1 option, the latter having none) than, say, Troupe Master conversions (which has several different weapon options)?

Don't really matter to me, but since it is fewer options and if the unit is clearly identifyable then it would a lot more "comfortable" as in i know what the model does, because it does excactly that and the longer pointy stick don't matter.

**Quasistellar**

I mean, I wouldn’t really have a big problem with it. I have DW and I generally know what they can take.

It’s kinda tough on your opponent though, as DW squads have such variety in their troops and it’s important to know what squad has what weapons.

If it’s that big a deal, and since it’s DW, I’d magnetize the arm. I always advocate magnetizing DW infantry arms whenever possible, as what’s playable and good now might not even be a legal loadout when the next codex comes out.

**Grimtuff**

TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
I've got a related question for you guys - when it comes to using count-as stuff, are you any more lenient when the unit in question has few/no options?

e.g. Would you be more lenient of Shadowseer/Death Jester conversions (the former having 1 option, the latter having none) than, say, Troupe Master conversions (which has several different weapon options)?

I certainly am (otherwise I’d be a big ol’ hypocrite

). If I’m doing a count as on a unit that has little to no options then you can branch out a bit. For example, I’ve got a Lord of Contagion mini that is armed with a gigantic bell from the screaming bell kit. The LOC has precisely two weapon options and I usually run it as the axe and have yet to have anyone complain.

So long as you stick within a theme people won’t tend to mind.

**Mmmpi**

Galef wrote:
I have a specific example that I'd like to get some feedback on. I want to model a DW Intercessor Sgt with a Xenophase blade since it's such a unique a cool looking weapon (I mean, it's weapon showcase on the Codex cover art, after all) but my first dilemma is: Primaris units don't have access to Xenophase blades.

My second dilemma is that I don't want to just use the rules for a Power sword since that seems like a waste on a Sgt model that has 3-4 attacks. Power fist seems more where it's at.
If Intercessors could take Relic Blades, both problems would be solved. I could model it as a Xeno-blade, but get a multi-damage weapon.

What I am asking is, how would you feel if the Sgt was modeled with a Xeno-blade, but used the rules for a Power fist? Would you be ok with the explanation that weapon is actually a special Xeno/Relic blade hybrid.

-

I'd be fine with. I've done similar things in the past.

**MagicCookie54**

As long as it fits with other units in your army its probably fine, i personally have vastly different modeled infantry units in my space wolves army, but all of them are identical stat wise so i just explain this before each game. Nobody has had a problem in all the games I've played.

**Ishagu**

I have a problem with this.

It's a proxy, and by your own admission you are doing it to use the rules of a superior weapon. I would probably refuse to play against you, especially if this pattern repeats across multiple units.

**posermcbogus**

Ehh, as long as you make it clear, pre-game I wouldn't mind particularly.

Have you thought of doing a bit of chopping, maybe remove the chainsword on a chainfist and replacing it with the xenophase blade, then giving that to the sarge?

**Slayer-Fan123**

Ishagu wrote:
I have a problem with this.

It's a proxy, and by your own admission you are doing it to use the rules of a superior weapon. I would probably refuse to play against you, especially if this pattern repeats across multiple units.

It isn't like Intercessor Sergeants have that many options. I personally don't have an issue with using a Sword for the Power Fist, but rather THAT Sword in particular.

**Galef**

What about a Wraithlord glaive? It's big, but not so big that a Primaris couldn't "one-hand it" to use the other hand to fire a pistol (which is what my model is doing).

I might have one in my bitz box (have to check when I get home) and the handle would be long enough to look "2-handed" for a Primaris.
But I'd still want to paint it like a Necron blade. And Actually, if the WL glaive it too big, I could always leave the blade I'm using, but add a staff handle to make it look 2-handed

And to clarify for the nah-sayers, every one of my Sgts will be equipped with Fists, so it shouldn't be a hard thing to remember. 2 of my units also have Aggressors, so those units get 8 "power fist" attacks on the charge. Easy to keep track of.

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**Crimson**

Why the all need to have fists rules wise?

**Shadenuat**

Well my amount of trust to DW player would depend on amount of shining spears with EMLs glued to them previously ran as count-as Autarches with Reaper launchers "for fun". The breaking point would be say 11 Autarches.

**Galef**

Crimson wrote:
Why the all need to have fists rules wise?

3 reasons:
1) My list was coming up over 5pts shy of 1500. That cannot stand. So bumping the 4ppm sword to a 9ppm fist getting my within 5pts and
2) The particular unit this Sgt is with does not include an Aggressor and has RF BRs and Hellblasters. I'm using a Character with the Beacon to "shunt" the unit into RF range, so it just makes sense to have a decent melee weapon to also charge/defend against a charge and
3) This list is a casual "for-fun" Movie-Marine list in which I am using DW with some Custodes to represent how Marines play in the fluff, so I want all my Sgts to feel like Characters, hence they need high Str/AP/Damage

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**Slayer-Fan123**

Galef wrote:
What about a Wraithlord glaive? It's big, but not so big that a Primaris couldn't "one-hand it" to use the other hand to fire a pistol (which is what my model is doing).

I might have one in my bitz box (have to check when I get home) and the handle would be long enough to look "2-handed" for a Primaris.
But I'd still want to paint it like a Necron blade. And Actually, if the WL glaive it too big, I could always leave the blade I'm using, but add a staff handle to make it look 2-handed

And to clarify for the nah-sayers, every one of my Sgts will be equipped with Fists, so it shouldn't be a hard thing to remember. 2 of my units also have Aggressors, so those units get 8 "power fist" attacks on the charge. Easy to keep track of.

-

Mind sending a size comparison? Seems like it would be a WAY too big but I can't remember the last time I saw a Wraithlord anyway.

**Galef**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Mind sending a size comparison? Seems like it would be a WAY too big but I can't remember the last time I saw a Wraithlord anyway.

I will if it fits, which it might not. But WLs are certainly not as big as people remember. It seems like most peoepl remember them being much bigger because they used to be one of the tallest 40K models, but the scale creep in the past decade has been ridiculous.
I remember comparing WLs to Necron Wraiths when their plastic kit came out and the "taller" Wraith is the same height as a WL. Same goes for the taller flight stand Inceptor.

But I wouldn't have to use the entire blade. The top 2/3s glued onto the existing hilt I've already got might look good

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**Slayer-Fan123**

Galef wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Mind sending a size comparison? Seems like it would be a WAY too big but I can't remember the last time I saw a Wraithlord anyway.
I will if it fits, which it might not. But WLs are certainly not as big as people remember. It seems like most peoepl remember them being much bigger because they used to be one of the tallest 40K models, but the scale creep in the past decade has been ridiculous.
I remember comparing WLs to Necron Wraiths when their plastic kit came out and the "taller" Wraith is the same height as a WL. Same goes for the taller flight stand Inceptor.

But I wouldn't have to use the entire blade. The top 2/3s glued onto the existing hilt I've already got might look good

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I was a young lad (12) when I first saw a Wraithlord and I don't think I had seen one since then to be frank.

**Insectum7**

As long as it's easy to remember, it's all good. All your Powerfists count as Thunder Hammers? No problem. All your Chaos Terminators have Combi-Bolters (even though the box comes with mixed gear), also not a problem. Consistency is what matters.

If you have it all on a printed list I'll be even more forgiving. Having it in writing keeps us both mistake-free and honest.

**Galef**

Insectum7 wrote:
If you have it all on a printed list I'll be even more forgiving. Having it in writing keeps us both mistake-free and honest.

Always have my list ready for my opponent, usually book marking a key page in my codex

-

**Gadzilla666**

Wouldn't bother me. Everyone can't afford to have different models for every possible load out. Plus rule of cool. I have nostroman chainglaives spread out in my night lords and count them as chainswords. Still hoping gw will give us rules for them.

**alextroy**

For me, Counts As and The Rule of Cool should never be invoked in a manner that can lead to confusion for your opponent. Running a Primaris Revier with Pistol and Nemesis Falchion bits as a Intercessor Sargent with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist is way over the line into confusing. The model will just look like a Revier with a Combat Knife.

Now if you model him with a two-handed sword, I can see calling that a Power Fist, but nothing that could easily be confused for a Power Sword.

**Ishagu**

alextroy wrote:
For me, Counts As and The Rule of Cool should never be invoked in a manner that can lead to confusion for your opponent. Running a Primaris Revier with Pistol and Nemesis Falchion bits as a Intercessor Sargent with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist is way over the line into confusing. The model will just look like a Revier with a Combat Knife.

Now if you model him with a two-handed sword, I can see calling that a Power Fist, but nothing that could easily be confused for a Power Sword.

This - but I don't agree with the two handed sword either.

I should be able to recognise the model and the wargear.

**Galef**

So based on feedback, I made some slight changes. I still have to finish painting the blade, but how does this look:

Spoiler:

-

**JNAProductions**

I'd be kinda hesitant to let you use it as a Fist.

It's just... Not a Fist at all. It's a sword. Using it as a Power Sword is fine, but as a Power Fist? I agree with the others who've said it's too confusing, especially when Intercessors can TAKE a Sword.

**Insectum7**

Galef wrote:
So based on feedback, I made some slight changes. I still have to finish painting the blade, but how does this look:

Spoiler:

-

Now THAT is a knife. Looks good!

Use as Power Fist, Thunder Hammer, Power Sword, whatever.

**JNAProductions**

Insectum7 wrote:
Galef wrote:
So based on feedback, I made some slight changes. I still have to finish painting the blade, but how does this look:

Spoiler:

-

Now THAT is a knife. Looks good!

I will agree it looks great!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Okay that's big enough I'm okay with it.

**ccs**

Galef wrote:
So based on feedback, I made some slight changes. I still have to finish painting the blade, but how does this look:

Spoiler:

-

Looks great.

It's still not a fist though. So if we were to play I'd request you not use it as a fist.

I mean, you say the Xenophase blade is so cool & that you want one in your army. But you don't. Not really. If you did you'd not have a problem running the model with the weapon (or at least as close as you could come, meaning a P.Sword). Instead you admit that what you want is the stats of a power fist.

**Skankmarron**

So many that would refuse to play someone who puts effort into converting and painting a nice miniature, shame on you guys...

Not everyone has the funds to access a spare powerfist/thunderhammer either...

If it’s consistent across models or is only on characters go nuts man.
If people refuse to play against you because of it you are probably better of not playing them anyway.

**JNAProductions**

Skankmarron wrote:
So many that would refuse to play someone who puts effort into converting and painting a nice miniature, shame on you guys...

Not everyone has the funds to access a spare powerfist/thunderhammer either...

If it’s consistent across models or is only on characters go nuts man.
If people refuse to play against you because of it you are probably better of not playing them anyway.

I haven't seen anyone say "I'd refuse to play Galef."

What I've seen people say is "Can your sword be a sword? Since it's confusing to have it count as a fist."