GW article in The Conversation

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**Karak Norn Clansman**

Very good article and discussion. Fascinating stuff.

The creative risk with great growth and branching off into various media is of course that the setting runs a risk of getting watered down for broader appeal. Many fictions develop better in a more niche outreach without constant demands to fit in with the mainstream. Time will tell.

The handling of Warhammer Adventures could be a good sign: Its different tone has no bearing on the core setting at all.

**plessiez**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Where do people get the files to print their own models from? I have no idea about 3d printing, but I believe they use a file to print them? so surely if theyre printing DKOK models, then wouldn't GW be annoyed about that? and surely people here should also disapprove, being how everyone talks about recasters? I'm a little confused.

There are files which are inspired by but not copies of GW IP. This isn’t really that different to boutique resin casters like Victoria Miniatures or Puppetswar offering alternative models. Then there are files which are designed to be a very close copy of a GW product. These are usually “hidden” on sites like thingiverse behind alternative names. The latter ones people should probably disapprove of in the same way as recasters, yes.

**Jidmah**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Where do people get the files to print their own models from? I have no idea about 3d printing, but I believe they use a file to print them? so surely if theyre printing DKOK models, then wouldn't GW be annoyed about that? and surely people here should also disapprove, being how everyone talks about recasters? I'm a little confused.

Soldiers from WW1 with gasmasks and greatcoats aren't exactly something GW can copyright. Plus, there are file repositories hosted in countries which care little about British IP where you can just download GW files. Last, but not least, if you have one GW model, you can duplicate them fairly well yourself, especially for models like IG tanks.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Yeah but the poster said their pals had printed however many points of death korps, and said they were indistinguishable from the real models when painted, so how do they print the same models basically? And it is basically the same as recasting in such a case?

**Jidmah**

I was that poster.
I have never seen actual DKOK models in RL, but those look the part well enough.
I know some of the Ork files might as well be actual GW orks, but from certain details/faces/weapon shapes that they are in fact not. Someone who has never built or painted and ork boy will not be able to tell the difference.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Ah got you. I thought you meant they'd printed carbon copies of the krieg models.

**John Prins**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Where do people get the files to print their own models from? I have no idea about 3d printing, but I believe they use a file to print them? so surely if theyre printing DKOK models, then wouldn't GW be annoyed about that? and surely people here should also disapprove, being how everyone talks about recasters? I'm a little confused.

As long as you're not selling stuff, you can get away with a lot without running afoul of the law. You can take GW models and make your own molds and cast figures with them for your own use if you like, just as you could take a book and hand-copy its contents into another book (or scan and print it and bind it). Companies have no say as to what you do with what you buy from them so long as you're not interacting with the marketplace.

**Jidmah**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Ah got you. I thought you meant they'd printed carbon copies of the krieg models.

They might have, I simply can't tell. I know there are files out there to print them.

**jeff white**

Ian Sturrock wrote:
jeff white wrote:
Now if they could only make a decent game...

Space Hulk 1st edition!

I'd say Warcry is pretty decent too, though it's actually starting to hit the boundaries of complexity in terms of GW's ability to playtest it and then balance it properly.

I wanted to go into more detail about it in the article, but it would have been off-topic, and rather technical, and I was getting short of wordcount, so my editor kept me on track... But basically the maths of game theory makes it increasingly more difficult to balance a competitive game, the more options you give each player. When you get to what we have, with a dozen or so factions in the major games and a points-based buy-in system with a lot of options, you aren't actually increasing the fun for most players; you're just increasing the chance that a dominant strategy will emerge. It gets worse if you offer benefits (e.g. bonus command points) for certain formations or whatever.

Add in GW's wish to bring out new rules and new units, and occasionally new editions of the game, and, well, we are never going to see a competitively balanced large-scale wargame from them with the business model, game design model, and playtesting model that they've been following for years. It's just not necessary to their commercial success, to produce a balanced game, however much we might want that as consumers.

Said nothing sbout so called balance...
But Space Hulk... Blackstone... decent board games.

Seems not only fiction gets watered down, but wargames too when the goal is leveraging every game to sell cards. Making a wargame into a CCG for profits results in every game looking like a gimmicky vehicle to sell cards.

**Hatemonger**

Absolutionis wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
While extremely useful, I have yet to see a 3-d printed model that does not run into the issue of the individual layers being distinguishable.
This came out of my 3D Printer about 1he ago, and all I've done is remove supports (analogous to removing from sprue). Zero layer lines. Pull tab for scale.

What printer do you have, and how much did you pay for it?

**Lord Kragan**

jeff white wrote:
Now if they could only make a decent game...

Warhammer Underworlds says hi.

**Crispy78**

In other news...

https://newsthump.com/2020/01/14/games-workshop-report-record-profits-after-man-buys-entire-thousand-sons-army-plus-paints/

**CrabstuffedMushrooms**

Great stuff and great questions on 3D printing!

I'm not an expert, but let's assume for the sake of discussion that 3D printing was 100% capable of doing everything GW could do, now and was available in everyone's homes for cheaper. How would that affect GW's business model?

My guess is that they would emulate Disney (and Lego) by shifting their focus into IP, which I think is what they've stated in previous Annual Reports. They've done a bit of this already with games like Dawn of War, etc.

GW's IP is unique and they could still lead there. They've created an entire universe that's more than just miniatures.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Lord Kragan wrote:
jeff white wrote:
Now if they could only make a decent game...

Warhammer Underworlds says hi.

Also, to be the butthole?

You don’t get to be the biggest fish because you offer the best game.

There are myriad reasons GW are where they are - and properly balanced games are seemingly not a particular factor.

For better or worse, GW seem to know what they’re doing, and know their collective market far better than us mere plebs.

**Ian Sturrock**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

You don’t get to be the biggest fish because you offer the best game.

There are myriad reasons GW are where they are - and properly balanced games are seemingly not a particular factor.

For better or worse, GW seem to know what they’re doing, and know their collective market far better than us mere plebs.

Absolutely. It's about the miniatures, and the hobby, because those are where the big money is. The game is only really important insofar as it sells miniatures and/or encourages people to engage in hobby activities.