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 Niiai wrote:
Look at how @TalizvarMade is talking about it. While those are good tips, it is uclear if he is talking about a primer or just paint. (I would asume the last since that is what he is leading with, but I am not sure.).

Quite honestly, a detailed understanding of the chemical reactions that happen when you prime a model are not necessary.

Just accept as a fact that your models will be easier to paint and last longer if you apply primer to them before you paint them.

As Lance says, if it says Primer on the bottle, it's a Primer. If it does not say Primer on the bottle, it's not primer.

The gw ones dont say primer because they are not primer. It says undercoat because its a base coat of paint.they also cost 2-3 times what you should be paying.

So what is a cheap primer available in norway that does not destroy the models?

 Niiai wrote:
So what is a cheap primer available in norway that does not destroy the models?

I'm afraid I dont know much of anything about Norway. I can only vouch for Krylon and Rustoleum, and these will not clog your models if you follow the instructions.

If Krylon and Rustoleum are not available to you, you could always go to a hardware store and ask for an equivalent product.

Just if you go with something else, TEST IT FIRST on a model you dont care about. With any new product you buy, you should test it first on a model you dont care about.

If it says its a primer for plastic it wont destroy the plastic when you use it.

 Lance845 wrote:
If it says its a primer for plastic it wont destroy the plastic when you use it.

He's referring to destroying the details on the model - which again, is primarily user error and not the product.

That is indeed what I am refering to. I have experimented with other spray products and my experiences where that some of the primers where very thick, even when properly shaked and aplied very lightly at a distance. This doubly becomes a problem if yuu need several different angles to not have huge arias barren.

 Niiai wrote:
That is indeed what I am refering to. I have experimented with other spray products and my experiences where that some of the primers where very thick, even when properly shaked and aplied very lightly at a distance. This doubly becomes a problem if yuu need several different angles to not have huge arias barren.

You're not shaking it enough I'm afraid.

I do not belive that is he case.

Then you are applying too much. Many thin coats is better than less thick. Sprays should be applied in fairly quick passes. Just a little above a dust coat, and allowed to dry before applying another.

Also, there is too far away and too close. There is a goldielocks zone where spray works. Too close and the paint acumulates too quick and pools. Too far and the particulate will dry in air and will cover the model in a rough textured powdery substance. Spray cans have to be used correctly or there are all kinds of problems that can happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I spray prime nids. Who have tons of insane angles and require many passes to get good coverage. I use Armory Black primer. It takes me 6-8 passes to fully prime most models. I have a large cardboard box as a spray box. And a large cardboard sheet to set the models on. I line them up. Spray. Pull oit the sheet and rotate it 180 degrees and set it back in and then spray the other side. Wait till it drys. Reposition the models. Repeat until i am satisfied.

For whatit's worth, if I ever screw up during priming, 9 times out of 10 it is because I had the nozzle too close to the model when i gave it a pass.

 Lance845 wrote:
Then you are applying too much. Many thin coats is better than less thick. Sprays should be applied in fairly quick passes. Just a little above a dust coat, and allowed to dry before applying another.

Also, there is too far away and too close. There is a goldielocks zone where spray works. Too close and the paint acumulates too quick and pools. Too far and the particulate will dry in air and will cover the model in a rough textured powdery substance. Spray cans have to be used correctly or there are all kinds of problems that can happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I spray prime nids. Who have tons of insane angles and require many passes to get good coverage. I use Armory Black primer. It takes me 6-8 passes to fully prime most models. I have a large cardboard box as a spray box. And a large cardboard sheet to set the models on. I line them up. Spray. Pull oit the sheet and rotate it 180 degrees and set it back in and then spray the other side. Wait till it drys. Reposition the models. Repeat until i am satisfied.

This. I find Armory brand one of the most, if not the most, unforgiving primers out there, but I particularly like the ever-so-slight eggshell texture it gives. I still have my fair shares of bad sprays depending on conditions, but overall it fits my performance-per-dollar just fine.

@Niaii; I think you should do a YouTube search on priming models. I'd look for a good one for you but am intermittently too busy at the moment.

Search "How to prime miniatures (or maybe 40k models) and find a highly rated video. Watch the video and make sure you have your method down


I'd describe my method but it is a hit unorthodox and I dont want to steer you wrong.

Works fine I cut it with IPA, water and some retardant, filter through pantyhose and put in the airbrush. Nice thin coats smooth as long as it's filtered properly as this pigment size varies quite a bit.

TheBoy wrote:
Works fine I cut it with IPA, water and some retardant, filter through pantyhose and put in the airbrush. Nice thin coats smooth as long as it's filtered properly as this pigment size varies quite a bit.

Thats just airbrush doing what airbrush does... the IPA has no significant role here.

Have you tried brushing on that mixture?

Ive been priming a lot of models lately using various cans..

Automotive "primer" will work great on miniatures. The only issue is the colour availability tends to be limited. nfortunately they do not do a black primer at halfords otherwise id own a bunch.

I have been using Tamiya gloss black spray in order to apply colour shifting later. I found there is zero difference if I apply from can straight to bare to model, or to primered model with either primer or citadel chaos black.

It all comes out looking nice and shiny.

I second the suggestion that any mishaps tend to be user then product.. Like if I clogged up detail or got the aweful grainy dust texture on minis it has been because I tried to rush the job and spray too close or too far away.

My conclusion is this:

Its all the same stuff.. Paint is paint, as long as the colour matches your desired outcome. To me it doesn't matter if you are going straight in with basecoat spray or with a primer then basecoating... Why prime and then spray another colour on top if you can just go in with the colour you want that will act as base coat and primer for other layers.

The Upside to GW sprays is it matches their paint system so getting Caliban green will generally mean your basecoat is done and you can start adding layers with GW paints system. But if you can find a cheaper alternative that gives you a green you want as your starting points. why not go with that?

The only time I think GW spray is needed is if you are going to use a lot of contrast on the model... With my limited experience and knowledge, according to GW the contrast spray paints are designed in a specific way to make contrast paints behave in a certain way straight from the pot. I have not done enough research and personal experience so someone might have a different opinion.

 skchsan wrote:

TheBoy wrote:
Works fine I cut it with IPA, water and some retardant, filter through pantyhose and put in the airbrush. Nice thin coats smooth as long as it's filtered properly as this pigment size varies quite a bit.

Thats just airbrush doing what airbrush does... the IPA has no significant role here.

Have you tried brushing on that mixture?

I have but it was with xv-88 it's runny and required a couple thin coats.
IPA helps transfer the pigment and dissolves quicker than water. It helps keep it in place vs water droplets forming on the model. It also helps keep the nozzle from clogging. Just a trick I picked up using candy apple paints. You have to thin em down so far pure water just makes a runny mess. Have you ever air brushed with 98 cent acrylics it's a headache until you find a proper ratio.

TheBoy wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

TheBoy wrote:
Works fine I cut it with IPA, water and some retardant, filter through pantyhose and put in the airbrush. Nice thin coats smooth as long as it's filtered properly as this pigment size varies quite a bit.

Thats just airbrush doing what airbrush does... the IPA has no significant role here.

Have you tried brushing on that mixture?

I have but it was with xv-88 it's runny and required a couple thin coats.
IPA helps transfer the pigment and dissolves quicker than water. It helps keep it in place vs water droplets forming on the model. It also helps keep the nozzle from clogging. Just a trick I picked up using candy apple paints. You have to thin em down so far pure water just makes a runny mess. Have you ever air brushed with 98 cent acrylics it's a headache until you find a proper ratio.

I'm assuming youre referring to the tube type acrylics. These tend to comprise of minimal retarder and minimal acrylic medium - these are simply paste form of acrylic pigments. You need to add acrylic medium instead of water to make them into citadel consistency.

Either case, this method may help priming a model using acrylic paints, but it wont turn acrylic paints into primers. They're simply chemically different.

 Argive wrote:
Ive been priming a lot of models lately using various cans..

Automotive "primer" will work great on miniatures. The only issue is the colour availability tends to be limited. nfortunately they do not do a black primer at halfords otherwise id own a bunch.

I have been using Tamiya gloss black spray in order to apply colour shifting later. I found there is zero difference if I apply from can straight to bare to model, or to primered model with either primer or citadel chaos black.

It all comes out looking nice and shiny.

I second the suggestion that any mishaps tend to be user then product.. Like if I clogged up detail or got the aweful grainy dust texture on minis it has been because I tried to rush the job and spray too close or too far away.

My conclusion is this:

Its all the same stuff.. Paint is paint, as long as the colour matches your desired outcome. To me it doesn't matter if you are going straight in with basecoat spray or with a primer then basecoating... Why prime and then spray another colour on top if you can just go in with the colour you want that will act as base coat and primer for other layers.

The Upside to GW sprays is it matches their paint system so getting Caliban green will generally mean your basecoat is done and you can start adding layers with GW paints system. But if you can find a cheaper alternative that gives you a green you want as your starting points. why not go with that?

The only time I think GW spray is needed is if you are going to use a lot of contrast on the model... With my limited experience and knowledge, according to GW the contrast spray paints are designed in a specific way to make contrast paints behave in a certain way straight from the pot. I have not done enough research and personal experience so someone might have a different opinion.

Paint is paint for the most part. Primer however is not paint. And in that respect your information is wrong. Primer isnt about how the colors come out (though if you CAN get it in a color you want than great!) Its about adhesion. And no paint will match a primer for adhesion.

Riiight…. yeah,, that thing that's has pigment in it is not paint. Silly me...

 Argive wrote:
Riiight…. yeah,, that thing that's has pigment in it is not paint. Silly me...

Correct. Pigment does not = paint. Lots of gak gets pigments put into it that are not paint.

 Argive wrote:
Primer isnt about how the colors come out (though if you CAN get it in a color you want than great!) Its about adhesion. And no paint will match a primer for adhesion.

I'm going to offer a slightly different opinion on this, which is purely about color choice, and not about brand, quality, etc.

If you can find a "Paint + Primer" product, or just a Primer product, that matches the base coat you want, fantastic.

If you cant, or rather if I cant, I always go with either a white.or black primer, and black by default.

A black prime job is harder to see the details, but that issue is gone when you add your basecoat of acrylic. The primary reason for black is that if your model chips to the primer level, or you miss a spot while base coating, you might not even notice. If you'd used white, the chipped area would be very, very noticeable.

On the other hand, I've found if you are painting with bright colors, a white undercoat helps them pop better. This might be in my imagination, but I think it's true.

Also, I LOVE washing, and you gotta go for a white undercoat for that for the most part. For example, I have a Hivefleet Kraken army that started with a craigslist buy which included a Citadel painting tutorial for Hivefleet Kraken, is dead simple, and looks damn good IMO.

The basics are, prime white, paint carapace red, and wash the white parts with Seraphim Sepia (everything beyond that is basically detail work).

So your choice of white or black primer does have its pros and cons IMO. I've never tried a grey primer so I cant speak to that.

Grey primers all the way. I wouldnt use anything else.

Unless your goal is bright, bright yellow (in which case, brown would be best), grey is the best IMO.

It's always best to put down a mid tone then work your way up/down to brightest/darkest.

I would like to throw in a recommendation for airbrush + Badger Stynylrez. It's cheap, durable, and provides a good amount of tooth for paint. I also find that the amount of control provided by the airbrush makes priming a lot easier.

That is indeed what I am refering to. I have experimented with other spray products and my experiences where that some of the primers where very thick, even when properly shaked and aplied very lightly at a distance. This doubly becomes a problem if yuu need several different angles to not have huge arias barren.

Then you are applying too much. Many thin coats is better than less thick. Sprays should be applied in fairly quick passes. Just a little above a dust coat, and allowed to dry before applying another.

So what is a cheap primer available in norway that does not destroy the models?

I'm just going to put this out there, because I don't see others saying it. And keep in mind, this is just my opinion. If you like the results in what you do, then keep at it. That being said...

Some people here are telling you that Krylon and Rustoleum is just as good as the 25$USD mini primer cans. They may have a different experience with these paints than I have had, and have had more success with it. But, based on my experience with these paints, you should be aware that the cheap spray cans have their problems.

When I started this hobby, I used Krylon and Rustoleum, lacquer aerosol paints that adhere to metal. It was cheap, effective and available. If you're starting out and you just want to get some minis painted as inexpensively as you can, it's an option. But I wouldn't use it now, and I haven't since the first two or three years of painting. If you can afford to not settle for enamel spray paints, I would suggest you get something designed for mini priming. Once you get past "battle ready" painting standard and continue to improve, you are going to get to the point where you can no longer tolerate those cheaper cans. Those paints are tacky and adhere to surfaces, so they make life easier for you to apply other paints. But they are also designed to be enamel paints, thick and tough, to tolerate heavy use and exposure to the elements. If you aren't careful, you can easily fill in details of your mini with too much pooled paint, and it's much harder to get that enamel off than mini primer. Those paints are harder to control, they have serious texture problems if they are not shaken correctly, sprayed too far away or too close, or with it too cold outside. Even applied as instructed on the can, they do have a thicker layer than the primers do, so you are likely to mess up the sculpt's finer details, like eyes and teeth.

If you want to do mini priming with primer designed for that, the aerosol cans can get expensive quickly. Over time, you'll save money if you can pay the up-front costs of a middling airbrush kit and a 200ml bottle of vallejo primer.

If you just need to paint 200 termagants as quickly and cheaply as possible, enamel aerosols would perform for you and you may not care. If you've only been painting for a short while, it's a good stepping stone to the next level of your skill. But I could never go back to it.

My Rustoleum primer contains no enamel.

You bought the wrong one.

Perhaps my description of those cans could have been more flexible, but I have painted with many different spray cans for at least three years, and I still stand by my point. Whether enamel, lacquer or all-purpose, those cheap cans are not designed for mini painting, they're designed to paint furniture and appliances. You are going to get worse results with your finished paintjob. It may not matter if you're just trying to get some minis on the table for your escalation league, but it will matter if you are trying to win a painting contest.

Confirmed, my Rustoleum primer has no enamel.

They do require less passes. I consider this a positive rather than a negative.

I have never lost a single detail on a model with Krylon or Rustoleum products that was not entirely my fault (almost always nozzle to close)

I think it's at least worth a comparison test with a "hobby primer" for our Norwegian friend to see what he prefers for the $.

All that said, I am not a competitive painter, I do not enter contests for painting (or anything else) and do not consider myself much more than an intermediate painter, but I do try and make models look as good as I'm capable of painting them, so I'm not just throwing a base coat, one highlight, and calling my models table-ready or anything like that.

It's just not the case for me, I'm afraid. I've used Army Painter and Rustoleum and I much prefer Rustoleum.

I can never, ever, ever get a smooth coat with Army Painter, except for their Pure Red. That one was alright.

Everything else comes out like this, and nothing I do seemingly matters.

You could argue that I just suck at using spray-cans, but that has never happened to me with a Rustoleum spray.

The only real advantage of not using Rustoleum, in my experience, is that it takes about twelve hours to dry properly. Until it does, it will be tacky.