Switch Theme:

"Priming" with acrylics, any red flags?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

The following is my own personal experience, so take it or leave it...

We are painting small plastic figures, not your car or something that needs to weather the environment, so the 'bonding' of the primer with the mini is not really a critical process - the bonding of the top coat with the bottom coat is, though.

I might argue the constant handling of your minis does constitute a severe environment - maybe it does, but here is what I do and have done for many years with absolutely nothing but stellar results.

1. I use an airbrush to paint the first layer (prime if you will) using flat enamel, usually Tamiya or Testors. Enamel being thinner based and not water based atomizes better for a coat less likely to obscure details. Also the enamel forms a much more sturdy base, less likely to chip (great for those metal models) and the flat provides an excellent 'tooth' for subsequent acrylic layers.
2. The first coat is done in the primary color of the mini. This is easily done with the myriad of colors available and why paint your mini a color only to cover up 100% of it again. Save a ton of painting time by already having your primary color on the mini - heck, I have even done silver with perfect results. And by using a cheap airbrush to spray quickly I can cover big areas and custom mix the color to whatever is needed.

Enamels via spirits clean up much easier than water acrylics in your airbrush; however, that is a whole other topic, so I won't go into any more details. If you do not have an airbrush you can still buy flat enamels from the discount store or model paints from the hobby store in a can in a large variety of colors.

Again, these are my personal preferences and I feel I am a well-above average painter and between me and my three sons' armies I have probably done over 1,800+ minis over the past 20 years and never a chip or crack (unless dropped/abused) and with having the primary color of the mini already done in the first coat, probably has saved me nearly 1,000 hours of work.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Elusive Dryad





Ahh, yeah. I've seen that before. Could be a couple of different reasons why you have that "powder" look. It comes down to environment, how well the paint is mixed and the distance from the mini as you apply the paint. I've had it happen with Krylon as well.

If you can stand the price barrier to entry, I would suggest moving to an airbrush, you don't have such problems and it is cheaper over time.
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

yeah but unless you have a dedicated airbrush station in your domicle, its such a pain in the arse to do, especially just for priming. id much rather grab a spray can, go outside with a cardboard box. the model will be primed in less than 2 minutes. more more efficient than setting up my airbrush, preparing the paint, preparing the booth, spraying, disassembling then cleaning the airbrush. nah.

Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

I could never get away with running an airbrush in this apartment. I'd have six noise complaints within an hour.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 Excommunicatus wrote:
It's just not the case for me, I'm afraid. I've used Army Painter and Rustoleum and I much prefer Rustoleum.

I can never, ever, ever get a smooth coat with Army Painter, except for their Pure Red. That one was alright.

Everything else comes out like this, and nothing I do seemingly matters.

You could argue that I just suck at using spray-cans, but that has never happened to me with a Rustoleum spray.

The only real advantage of not using Rustoleum, in my experience, is that it takes about twelve hours to dry properly. Until it does, it will be tacky.


That powder can happen for a number of reasons.

1) it's too hot and the particulate is drying in the air.

2) your too far away and the particulate is drying in the air.

3) Your not shaking it enough.

4) others.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I could never get away with running an airbrush in this apartment. I'd have six noise complaints within an hour.


Don't run an airbrush off a pancake compressor, then. My cheapo Harbor Freight special sounds like a refrigerator compressor.

   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Oh? I've little experience and presumed they all sounded like a 2K put-put Genny.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Oh? I've little experience and presumed they all sounded like a 2K put-put Genny.


Yeah, you're not the first person I've heard say that- I'm not sure where the misconception comes from, maybe audio distortion in Youtube videos. The loudest airbrush compressors are around 60dB (normal conversation volume), and I know Paasche makes one around 45dB (light rainfall volume). I use my crappy (relatively loud) compressor while my wife is taking a nap on the other side of the wall and it's not an issue.

I do hook my airbrush up to the pancake compressor from time to time, and that thing is on the level of a loud vacuum cleaner, like a shop vac- but it fills its reservoir to 150PSI in a couple of minutes, then I can shut it off and airbrush in silence for several hours. Lots of choices.

All that said, ventilation is the greater concern. If you can't airbrush outdoors, you need a spray booth with particulate filter, and preferably with a powered extraction fan. This can be DIY'd out of a cardboard box and computer fans, or commercial solutions exist. And either way you need proper PPE (respirator w/ particulate filter) since some amount of acrylic particles are bound to become airborne.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/05 19:54:55


   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

OK primer "101" as best I know it:

I do not endorse or condone using a "paint" as a primer: all your hard work may end in tears if it peels off due to abrasion, impact or temperature change.

I have given as much detail as anyone can stand for the below topics. It has been spoiler-ed to save you all from the wall of text.

"Primer"
Spoiler:
Ideal is the kind that shrinks as it dries, I have seen the Vallejo primer do this and any that are specifically called "Primer".

Solvent of some kind is usually part of being a primer: anything saying it is explosive or flammable proves it to be very likely a primer (especially if acrylic).

If painting bright colours or making heavy use of a shading paint (like GW high contrast paint) using white or a light grey primer may be the preferred.

I tend to use black because I am used to building up to the brighter colours, you may have a different preference.

Bonus points: You can do a form of "Zenithal" highlight by using black primer as your base and then a light misting of white or grey from above.
Good practice for any conditions:
Spoiler:
It is usually best to clean the model with a fairly strong detergent and ensure it is fully dry and free of oils and mold release.

A very light roughing up of the bare model surfaces can help with the bond of whatever paint or primer you use, It gives more surface area to stick to ("tooth"). This is the best time to look AGAIN for missed mold lines.

It is best to keep both the can and your models indoors and get everything in the garage or wherever at the last minute since the house is usually kept to ideal conditions.

Shake the can for many minutes, preferably upside-down (the pigment settled to the bottom during storage), paint is meant to be an even suspension of pigment, binder and solvent/medium: if you have an uneven mix, you may run into poor results due to the inconsistent properties.

Many small coats are better than one heavy one. You do not even need to fully spray the model, thin spots are perfectly ok since you are going to properly base-coat everything right?

Most canned primer spray I find seems to best spray from ~8" away (20 cm) but that can vary depending on weather conditions (more on that later).

Attaching the model to a long "stick" or something where you can easily spray the underside of the model will help things or be patient and wait till it dries.

After a pause or break in priming, turn the can upside-down and do a quick spray: main reason is to have mainly solvent spray out to clear the nozzle: it sucks when paint dries in there and you cannot spray anymore.

Allow the models to at least dry overnight: most paints full cure in about a week (longer if you paint over it), so if you can wait, that would be best.
Weather:
Spoiler:
- Low humidity is key, if it is raining or foggy do not spray unless you can dehumidify wherever you are to something below 70% humidity. This is mainly to do with your paint interacting with the water particles in the air.

- Temperatures above 30 deg C can be difficult because the paint can start to dry in the air prior to hitting your model so you get a "fuzzy" primer: less liquid flow, more sticky half-dry paint sandblasting on.

Both of these items above can be helped a bit by spraying closer to the model: the less air it has to travel through the better, less time for the carrier solvent to "flash" away.

- Temperatures below freezing can be difficult both for drying time and the paint will have a tendency to sag/flow or pool in areas like detail: you will not like this. Keeping paint and models indoors before spraying really helps with this and bring them back in as soon as you can.
Safety
Spoiler:
- Cover your eyes with something, a face shield or chemical goggles are ideal, spraying into a pocket or hole with a bottom in it could come back at you.

- Ventilate well, have a fan next to you, blowing air next to your process to wick the air away (not directly or it can mess up you spray).

- You may still want to use a charcoal / solvent rated mask to be sure you do not mess-up your lungs.

- Be absolutely sure your paint does not have Cadmium in it if spraying! It is a heavy metal that is bad for you in a spray form that is common for bright colours. There are many alternative paints for this purpose.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/05 21:07:46


A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in gb
Walking Dead Wraithlord






Yah as others have said, definitely invest in some sort of respirator whatever priming you do.

I ssed gray seer contrast undercoat/primer/basecoat spray today today. It applies much smoother, seamless than the automotive stuff. It carries a hefty pricetag though..

In terms of mechanics of spraying, I used tables, cardboard boxes pavement etc and everything in between. However, Today I think I hit the jackpot. I found sticking pennies on the bottom of bases (UK poennies..) and using a decent magnet to stick models on used upspray can or some sort of long metal implement makes a great priming handle. To me by far the quickest and most efficient. Also you get nicely weighted minis in the process and can use for magnetic storage/carrying. Cant believe I only thought of this today lol.

The DIY one I made is much superior to the one GW sells which you cant get an underneath spray easily which is annoying.(Yeah I bought it because thought it might be useful to spray in tight conditions... and also wanted to see if its any good.. Mistakes were made!) DIY all the way.

Having said that, airbrush is probably the best if you can have a dedicated space for it. You can get nice precision zenithal highlighting and gradients.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/05 22:44:48


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
 
Forum Index » Painting & Modeling
Go to: