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Grey40k wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I hope this isn't GW taking another page from video games and going with seasons ideas. Just what I'd love, to add to my DLCS, seasons and scheduled patch support. I mean we have two of the three already.

I don’t see it as a bad thing if it is mostly free or optional. Say there are some updates to rules and new models but no one is forced into buying the dlc equivalent. In this more benign form, it could be the, just supporting their already released product. That’s a plus from me.

Except in this case, if your opponent has bought the new rules and you haven't, you're fethed. It's like playing with an old codex.

True, I do not understand why they keep wanting to make money out of those rule changes.

It just comes across as greedy and fuels the second hand and black market for those books.

........ really?

That was phrased oddly I agree but I think its just saying he doesn't get why they want to keep churning out book after book to feed the bloat as it feels overly busy and constant. So it feels greedy and makes people want to say " F this " then pirate it as opposed to buying it because they come out so rapidly it feels like a waste to even pick them up based on shelf life.

At least that's what I got from it as the intent. I know I've heard that said to me as to why people won't buy them.

One would have thought we would see a new branch of psychic war fare available within the game. How exactly has the psychic been awakened?

BrianDavion wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I hope this isn't GW taking another page from video games and going with seasons ideas. Just what I'd love, to add to my DLCS, seasons and scheduled patch support. I mean we have two of the three already.

I don’t see it as a bad thing if it is mostly free or optional. Say there are some updates to rules and new models but no one is forced into buying the dlc equivalent. In this more benign form, it could be the, just supporting their already released product. That’s a plus from me.

Except in this case, if your opponent has bought the new rules and you haven't, you're fethed. It's like playing with an old codex.

True, I do not understand why they keep wanting to make money out of those rule changes.

It just comes across as greedy and fuels the second hand and black market for those books.

........ really?

Yep! I understand them wanting to make money, but mixing rules and money making is a bad way to do it. Something that I would love, which continuing to support your product with better rules, new scenarios / missions, more fluff, can easily turn into a money grab. That is, changing the rules for the sake of selling more miniatures, or even just the books. As was pointed out, you must buy the books if your army is affected by them since those are now the official rules in place.

Rules and rule updates should be to better balance the game and offer new options as a form of support, but not as part of the core business.

AngryAngel80 wrote:That was phrased oddly I agree but I think its just saying he doesn't get why they want to keep churning out book after book to feed the bloat as it feels overly busy and constant. So it feels greedy and makes people want to say " F this " then pirate it as opposed to buying it because they come out so rapidly it feels like a waste to even pick them up based on shelf life.

At least that's what I got from it as the intent. I know I've heard that said to me as to why people won't buy them.

I thought I was clear, maybe it was an English related issue? In any case, yeah I do think that people do resort to those options. We have tournament players openly saying they print their miniatures in open forums. Who could blame them? It is obvious that there is a meta shaking without better balance just for the sake of meta shaking. I was looking into it and apparently IH have the highest winning rates in this edition, and that’s after some other pretty unbalanced situations that we saw before. So rules updates are not slowly getting towards more even power across armies, but rather widely diverging from it.

As the edition nears its end, how can it be that it is worse balanced than at the beginning?

Again, greedy and untrustworthy doesn’t inspire confidence or loyalty. Supporting 20 years your released product does inspire loyalty, and that’s the core value GW abandoned in the past few years. What a pity!

mrFickle wrote:One would have thought we would see a new branch of psychic war fare available within the game. How exactly has the psychic been awakened?

I read the grey knight one and the name made sense. For the astra militarum, maybe not so much?

I think the biggest change will be those permanent spells someone said are coming.

Grey40k wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grey40k wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I hope this isn't GW taking another page from video games and going with seasons ideas. Just what I'd love, to add to my DLCS, seasons and scheduled patch support. I mean we have two of the three already.

I don’t see it as a bad thing if it is mostly free or optional. Say there are some updates to rules and new models but no one is forced into buying the dlc equivalent. In this more benign form, it could be the, just supporting their already released product. That’s a plus from me.

Except in this case, if your opponent has bought the new rules and you haven't, you're fethed. It's like playing with an old codex.

True, I do not understand why they keep wanting to make money out of those rule changes.

It just comes across as greedy and fuels the second hand and black market for those books.

........ really?

Yep! I understand them wanting to make money, but mixing rules and money making is a bad way to do it. Something that I would love, which continuing to support your product with better rules, new scenarios / missions, more fluff, can easily turn into a money grab. That is, changing the rules for the sake of selling more miniatures, or even just the books. As was pointed out, you must buy the books if your army is affected by them since those are now the official rules in place.

Rules and rule updates should be to better balance the game and offer new options as a form of support, but not as part of the core business.

AngryAngel80 wrote:That was phrased oddly I agree but I think its just saying he doesn't get why they want to keep churning out book after book to feed the bloat as it feels overly busy and constant. So it feels greedy and makes people want to say " F this " then pirate it as opposed to buying it because they come out so rapidly it feels like a waste to even pick them up based on shelf life.

At least that's what I got from it as the intent. I know I've heard that said to me as to why people won't buy them.

I thought I was clear, maybe it was an English related issue? In any case, yeah I do think that people do resort to those options. We have tournament players openly saying they print their miniatures in open forums. Who could blame them? It is obvious that there is a meta shaking without better balance just for the sake of meta shaking. I was looking into it and apparently IH have the highest winning rates in this edition, and that’s after some other pretty unbalanced situations that we saw before. So rules updates are not slowly getting towards more even power across armies, but rather widely diverging from it.

As the edition nears its end, how can it be that it is worse balanced than at the beginning?

Again, greedy and untrustworthy doesn’t inspire confidence or loyalty. Supporting 20 years your released product does inspire loyalty, and that’s the core value GW abandoned in the past few years. What a pity!

mrFickle wrote:One would have thought we would see a new branch of psychic war fare available within the game. How exactly has the psychic been awakened?

I read the grey knight one and the name made sense. For the astra militarum, maybe not so much?

I think the biggest change will be those permanent spells someone said are coming.

Yeah no offense was intended the english just sounded a little off. I got what you were implying though and for what its worth I agree.

What would be the way to phrase that properly? Obviously English is not my mother tongue.

In Russian and Poland there are so many recasters, with so much long year expiriance in casting stuff in resin, that some made legit companies. So maybe it is not all bad. Most of the succesful pirates in the end became legit too, either by gaining a goverments pardon or litteraly becoming part of the goverment as a governor.

Plus there is no way anyone sane is going to buy 8 boxs of csm to make 2 units of 5 havocks, specially when they are full on new csm.


My stuff, expet for the tanks, is all metal, termis, the dreadnought and all my characters. I would never buy GW resin stuff, because it comes broken. Kromlech stuff on the other side is always crisp and looks good. There is also a dude in Minsk on the other side of the border who sells recasts he makes at a FLGS. GW can only dream of quality like his recasts. Main difference, besides no bubbles or damage and lower cost of course, is that they are of orengy colour instead of sick green yellow.

Grey40k wrote:
What would be the way to phrase that properly? Obviously English is not my mother tongue.

Well if I can be so bold as to help, I'd probably phrase it more like. GW is wrong trying to milk the player base of ever increasing amounts of money with power jumps just to try and move books with no real care towards balance or game stat. That the pace of these releases feels like a money grab and not an actual effort towards quality released content but instead a money drip only good for them but ultimately damaging to the customers that will make many turn away. As well they may just seek to steal the information rather than give them money for minimal effort.

Not trying to put words in your mouth but as you said it at first it came out more like " How dare GW try to make money with their rules. " Which is why I said it sounded odd at first reading. I just figured you weren't saying exactly that I went over it a couple times. So did that help any ?

mrFickle wrote:
One would have thought we would see a new branch of psychic war fare available within the game. How exactly has the psychic been awakened?

The new exarch powers are fluffed as being a result of exarchs channeling their new energies into super powers. Mephiston is a psychic super sayjin now, presumably a bunch of stuff also happened in the other books like GK getting Tides? I dunno I didn't read Ritual or F&F. I imagine Magnus's ritual was fueled by the excess of warp energies.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

Grey40k wrote:
What would be the way to phrase that properly? Obviously English is not my mother tongue.

Well if I can be so bold as to help, I'd probably phrase it more like. GW is wrong trying to milk the player base of ever increasing amounts of money with power jumps just to try and move books with no real care towards balance or game stat. That the pace of these releases feels like a money grab and not an actual effort towards quality released content but instead a money drip only good for them but ultimately damaging to the customers that will make many turn away. As well they may just seek to steal the information rather than give them money for minimal effort.

Not trying to put words in your mouth but as you said it at first it came out more like " How dare GW try to make money with their rules. " Which is why I said it sounded odd at first reading. I just figured you weren't saying exactly that I went over it a couple times. So did that help any ?

It does, thanks!

I see now what was unclear.

I am all for giving good money for good service / products, but I am I truly dislike market power turning abusive. So many expensive supplements look more like hidden subscription fees than anything. If you sell a product and change its rules, shouldn’t that be part of the support package you sell with it?

I understand that selling sculpts that last forever makes business tricky, but resorting to cheap tricks does not look like the solution to me. I mean they can do what they want, but don’t be surprised if more and more people google those PDFs instead of buying your books. Obviously there consequences for the miniature side of it are also big, although I suspect recasting usage is less prevalent among the less hardcore than rule photocopying or whatever.

Permanent spells never showed up. There's been a grand total 3 new psyker minis. The inquisitor in the teaser? Literally forgotten. We're most of the way into the "campaign" if this disjointed narrative spattering can even be called that, and all we have are loose, unconnected threads and a bunch of lopsided rules add-ons.

Were is PA going? Arguably not very far from the finish line. No coherent storyline, no stakes, no recurring characters just '...and if you look to this corner of the galaxy, you'll see..."

Were is GW going? Laughing all the way to the bank, having flogged people a few add-on rules, that are neither balancing fixes (which imo belong in CA), nor particularly meaningful supplements beyond 'loyalist marines get plenty, everyone else be grateful'.

This is probably why it's leaving such a sour taste in the mouth among fans. If GW meant it to be a meaningful campaign, it'd be more than a few random matchups fighting inconsequentially (in relation to the wider narrative of the campaign). If they meant it to be a balancing thing, they wouldn't have done such a lazy job, and actually tried to make rules that brought some parity to the game, especially considering how many factions JUST got new rules for a game which is now really creaking under the weight of it's own bloat.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Permanent spells never showed up.

I am quite certain they will show up, but maybe in 9th edition (which some say will come this summer).

Were is GW going? Laughing all the way to the bank, having flogged people a few add-on rules, that are neither balancing fixes (which imo belong in CA), nor particularly meaningful supplements beyond 'loyalist marines get plenty, everyone else be grateful'.

Not sure they are selling so many of those. I recently read an article by some of the more mainstream hobby websites on how the "collectors edition" for this edition's codexes (don't recall what books those were) was a stupid product. I fully agree, you cannot keep this pace of release and then try to sell "pretty" editions at a mark up.

Seeing at the recent pace of releases, I wouldn't be surprised if more and more people saw them as disposable and bad investments. How easy will it be for them to squash the pirate market that is flourishing? I believe that without inspiring a bit more loyalty, it will be extremely hard.

This is probably why it's leaving such a sour taste in the mouth among fans. If GW meant it to be a meaningful campaign, it'd be more than a few random matchups fighting inconsequentially (in relation to the wider narrative of the campaign). If they meant it to be a balancing thing, they wouldn't have done such a lazy job, and actually tried to make rules that brought some parity to the game, especially considering how many factions JUST got new rules for a game which is now really creaking under the weight of it's own bloat.

Ultimately, this degrades their brand. I don't know in recent times for wh40k, but I do recall that whfb tournaments started creating their own version of the rules. Reason being that balance was so bad that it was not possible to have meaningful tournaments.
wh40k is become more and more popular. If the tournament scene flourishes with it, I wouldn't be surprised if they started creating their own rules.That would take away from the power GW has over its own game.

All that to say that releasing washed out not really psyker based supplements with bad balance does come at a price. As it should be! It is consumers organizing and acting carefully that keeps companies in their toes; if it was for GW, they'd just wipe your bank account with meaningless releases every month. Companies nowadays have no restraint.

Grey40k wrote:
[
Yep! I understand them wanting to make money, but mixing rules and money making is a bad way to do it. Something that I would love, which continuing to support your product with better rules, new scenarios / missions, more fluff, can easily turn into a money grab. That is, changing the rules for the sake of selling more miniatures, or even just the books. As was pointed out, you must buy the books if your army is affected by them since those are now the official rules in place.

Rules and rule updates should be to better balance the game and offer new options as a form of support, but not as part of the core business.

You clearly have no idea how GW (or most other game companies) have been dong business these past 30+ years.

ccs wrote:
You clearly have no idea how GW (or most other game companies) have been dong business these past 30+ years.

Not understanding / knowing is not the same as not liking it. I know that DLCs are a plague for video games (as well as micro trans), I know that some sectors are making things obsolete at a faster pace (though not all, car industry is a nice example of that trend reversing).
GW was faily unique in that it supported its miniatures for extremely long periods. Dwarf warriors / space marines had sculpts viable and going strong for how long? 25+ years? Rules are also objectively being changed faster, as can be seen from edition and codex releases. I think I am forming my opinions on well documented facts.

That said, I still think that PA should have been free or super cheap, that profit making from special editions for books with such short lifespans (due to planned obsolescence!) is a massive waste.

I also feel that PA had little P in it, and that probably we will get permanent spells with 9th, as opposed to keeping 8th alive for longer via small updates.

The pa rules definitely should have been released in single faction soft backs instead of multi faction hard backs.

As for endless spells, I fething hope not. Not just because I don't like the concept, but because some factions would be left out. What kind of "spell" would the tau have?

 posermcbogus wrote:
Permanent spells never showed up. There's been a grand total 3 new psyker minis. The inquisitor in the teaser? Literally forgotten. We're most of the way into the "campaign" if this disjointed narrative spattering can even be called that, and all we have are loose, unconnected threads and a bunch of lopsided rules add-ons.

Were is PA going? Arguably not very far from the finish line. No coherent storyline, no stakes, no recurring characters just '...and if you look to this corner of the galaxy, you'll see..."

Thing is that this is exactly what GW said PA would be. It was to be an exploration of the event after the rift opened and they wanted to explore how it effected each faction and was trying to emphasise how big the galaxy is. They never said as far as I'm aware that there would be an ongoing narritive besides how the rift effected everything.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
The pa rules definitely should have been released in single faction soft backs instead of multi faction hard backs.

As for endless spells, I fething hope not. Not just because I don't like the concept, but because some factions would be left out. What kind of "spell" would the tau have?

If they could get not spells to khorn in AoS. they can give stuff to necron and tau. Specially if this would mean the players would have to buy a box of 3 not spell models.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
The pa rules definitely should have been released in single faction soft backs instead of multi faction hard backs.

As for endless spells, I fething hope not. Not just because I don't like the concept, but because some factions would be left out. What kind of "spell" would the tau have?

Nano-drone swarms, plasma fire walls, marker light minefields. I dunno, I don't know tau that well but they're just off the top of my head.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
The pa rules definitely should have been released in single faction soft backs instead of multi faction hard backs.

As for endless spells, I fething hope not. Not just because I don't like the concept, but because some factions would be left out. What kind of "spell" would the tau have?

Nano-drone swarms, plasma fire walls, marker light minefields. I dunno, I don't know tau that well but they're just off the top of my head.

Don't. Give. Gw. Ideas.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
The pa rules definitely should have been released in single faction soft backs instead of multi faction hard backs.

As for endless spells, I fething hope not. Not just because I don't like the concept, but because some factions would be left out. What kind of "spell" would the tau have?

Nano-drone swarms, plasma fire walls, marker light minefields. I dunno, I don't know tau that well but they're just off the top of my head.

Don't. Give. Gw. Ideas.

WE already gave them those ideas for the Khadoran Overlords.

Where is GW going?

To the bank cashing in that cheddar.
Essentially master stroke. Release a new power faction update with marines rolf stomping everyone..

Then drip feed small power bumps to people so they can compete and charge them £20 a pop for 5 pages of rules. I mean it is pretty damn genius. And yes, GW flat out said these are codex updates.

8.5 is real. And its called psychic awakening.

We buy the books. We fuel this. Sadly.

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
One would have thought we would see a new branch of psychic war fare available within the game. How exactly has the psychic been awakened?

The new exarch powers are fluffed as being a result of exarchs channeling their new energies into super powers. Mephiston is a psychic super sayjin now, presumably a bunch of stuff also happened in the other books like GK getting Tides? I dunno I didn't read Ritual or F&F. I imagine Magnus's ritual was fueled by the excess of warp energies.

That's a bit of a backwards retconn though.

They've had warrior Powers since they were introduced in first edition, and some were more powerful than they are now. S8 T8 exarch?

Hellebore wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
One would have thought we would see a new branch of psychic war fare available within the game. How exactly has the psychic been awakened?

The new exarch powers are fluffed as being a result of exarchs channeling their new energies into super powers. Mephiston is a psychic super sayjin now, presumably a bunch of stuff also happened in the other books like GK getting Tides? I dunno I didn't read Ritual or F&F. I imagine Magnus's ritual was fueled by the excess of warp energies.

That's a bit of a backwards retconn though.

They've had warrior Powers since they were introduced in first edition, and some were more powerful than they are now. S8 T8 exarch?

Man.. we really need the PL to be back up to this level

PA, long story short. Tau Ethereals are revealed to be psykers, their aura abilities now requiring a warp charge and able to be disrupted with psychic hood sheninagans.

With the Tau acquisition of IoM warp drives the reverberations through the warp create a new god.of chaos in the form of the Tau collective, as a being with 3 interchangeable visages; a Tau's, a Kroot's, and a random member of the collective.