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Melissia wrote: It's a little surprising. The ability to drop-pod was one of the things that made marines special in the lore.
Yes, space marines, not primaris. You got it well
Primaris are real Space Marines, get over it
Real marines can ride in Rhinos, wear Terminator Armor and mix weapons in squads.
Strange, I don't remember Centurions, Bikes, and Terminators being able to get in Rhinos.
Are we saying that if a Marine isn't wearing Terminator armour, they aren't real marines?
Can't mix weapons? Oops, I guess that Honour Guard, Scout Bikers and Tyrannic War Veterans aren't "real marines". In fact, that makes Intercessors more "real" than them!
NinthMusketeer wrote: TBF I can definitely see a fluff argument of Primaris simply not fitting into drop pods, they were already a tight fit for regular marines! Rhinos as well. It is the likes of Land Raiders, which could carry terminators, where things do not make sense.
BrianDavion wrote: give it time and I'm sure GW'll put out a primaris drop pod...
I once joked about a primaris drop pod that was a bit more expensive but would also act like a fortification upon deployment, but thinking about it.. that'd be kind of a neat idea.
That sounds pretty cool to me.
It is a somewhat clever idea XD
You're already dropping a pod full of guys as is. Why not build a variant of said pod that can rapidly deploy into a fortification? Would probably be an annoying model though.
Melissia wrote: It's a little surprising. The ability to drop-pod was one of the things that made marines special in the lore.
Yes, space marines, not primaris. You got it well
Primaris are real Space Marines, get over it
Real marines can ride in Rhinos, wear Terminator Armor and mix weapons in squads.
Strange, I don't remember Centurions, Bikes, and Terminators being able to get in Rhinos.
Are we saying that if a Marine isn't wearing Terminator armour, they aren't real marines?
Can't mix weapons? Oops, I guess that Honour Guard, Scout Bikers and Tyrannic War Veterans aren't "real marines". In fact, that makes Intercessors more "real" than them!
Real Marines don't rely on strawman arguments.
So you're not a "Real Marine" - I'm pretty sure we knew that in the first place.
What's that got to do with the fact that Tyrannic War Veterans, Honour Guard and Scout Bikers aren't "Real Marines"?
Pluto is not considered a planet anymore because the definition of "planet" has been made more specific. Square that circle.
As decided by the general consensus of some of the most qualified and scientifically literate to rule on the matter.
What your credentials are for defining what is and isn't a "Real Marine" are unknown and, barring incredibly unlikely circumstances, insignificant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote: You're already dropping a pod full of guys as is. Why not build a variant of said pod that can rapidly deploy into a fortification? Would probably be an annoying model though.
Could simply be a larger Drop Pod model, with pop-up barricade walls (like the Skyshield Landing Pad).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/25 18:47:47
I would be among the first in line for some Primaris drop pods. I don't see them being a thing anytime soon though. As much as I want them, I can't really say my army needs them. My Primaris army is already mostly Vanguard so between infiltrate and deep strike, I can practically have my entire army not actually deploy in my deployment zone. The units I leave in my backfield are there for a reason. Most of my Intercessors are fine in the back as are Hellblasters for the most part. If I do want a 5 man squad up further, I have an Impulsor. Not perfect for the role of a drop pod, but good enough.
I could see Primaris Drop Pods being worthwhile if they could hold 10-12 marines or at least 6 Gravis armored marines. Something Repulsors are too expensive for and Impulsors can't do. However, I can't quite imagine how big of a model a 10-12 man Primaris Drop Pod would be. Or rather, I can and that is pretty darn big which could actually limit where it could even be placed on the table and not worth the effort. Of course, I can always go for a flyer that acts kinda like a drop pod where the marines fast rope to the ground which is really more of a transport helicopter. I know that would upset some of the steadfast players that want marines to be knights in space, but I don't mind marines using more modern tactics especially Primaris.
If it happens great. If it doesn't that's fine too. I have plenty of grav chute 'paratrooper' marines which I like just as much as drop pods.
Jackal90 wrote: I say Primaris should get dreadclaw pods.
Not because I’m a Primaris player, I just want plastic dreadclaw pods for 30k.
I like that idea. As long as gw stays true to the fluff and the dreadclaws eat every single last fething loyalist that gets in them.
Just keep in mind that they were neutral during the heresy and everyone got to use them.
Now if only we had a plastic karibdyss that didn’t weight 3kg on a stick lol.
Jackal90 wrote: I say Primaris should get dreadclaw pods.
Not because I’m a Primaris player, I just want plastic dreadclaw pods for 30k.
I like that idea. As long as gw stays true to the fluff and the dreadclaws eat every single last fething loyalist that gets in them.
Just keep in mind that they were neutral during the heresy and everyone got to use them.
Now if only we had a plastic karibdyss that didn’t weight 3kg on a stick lol.
Actually, no they weren't. That's why the loyalists jettisoned all theirs into space and stopped using them.
Agreed on the Karybdis, though it needs a points drop to be useful.
Jackal90 wrote: I say Primaris should get dreadclaw pods.
Not because I’m a Primaris player, I just want plastic dreadclaw pods for 30k.
I like that idea. As long as gw stays true to the fluff and the dreadclaws eat every single last fething loyalist that gets in them.
Just keep in mind that they were neutral during the heresy and everyone got to use them.
Now if only we had a plastic karibdyss that didn’t weight 3kg on a stick lol.
Actually, no they weren't. That's why the loyalists jettisoned all theirs into space and stopped using them.
Agreed on the Karybdis, though it needs a points drop to be useful.
But they still used them at one point, especially around the heresy.
Love the model but a plastic one would be great.
And agreed, it’s cost is as bad as it’s weight.
Then there’s the money point of view too lol.
Melissia wrote: It's a little surprising. The ability to drop-pod was one of the things that made marines special in the lore.
Yes, space marines, not primaris. You got it well
Primaris are real Space Marines, get over it
Real marines can ride in Rhinos, wear Terminator Armor and mix weapons in squads.
Strange, I don't remember Centurions, Bikes, and Terminators being able to get in Rhinos.
Are we saying that if a Marine isn't wearing Terminator armour, they aren't real marines?
Can't mix weapons? Oops, I guess that Honour Guard, Scout Bikers and Tyrannic War Veterans aren't "real marines". In fact, that makes Intercessors more "real" than them!
Real Marines don't rely on strawman arguments.
So you're not a "Real Marine" - I'm pretty sure we knew that in the first place.
What's that got to do with the fact that Tyrannic War Veterans, Honour Guard and Scout Bikers aren't "Real Marines"?
Point to my strawman argument. Yours starts with "Are we saying. . ."
Pluto is not considered a planet anymore because the definition of "planet" has been made more specific. Square that circle.
As decided by the general consensus of some of the most qualified and scientifically literate to rule on the matter.
What your credentials are for defining what is and isn't a "Real Marine" are unknown and, barring incredibly unlikely circumstances, insignificant.
Sticks and stones don't counter the point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/25 21:52:05
Insectum7 wrote:Point to my strawman argument. Yours starts with "Are we saying. . ."
Yeah - because that's what you ARE saying.
Not a strawman when you've built it yourself.
Tyrannic War Veterans aren't Real Marines.
As decided by the general consensus of some of the most qualified and scientifically literate to rule on the matter.
What your credentials are for defining what is and isn't a "Real Marine" are unknown and, barring incredibly unlikely circumstances, insignificant.
Sticks and stones don't counter the point.
If you had one, perhaps. Unfortunately, the point has more holes in it than whatever it's poking in.
All you're stating is your own personal idea of what a Marine is. That's actually fine. But that doesn't make it "Real", and to imply some kind of authority or that anything you don't like isn't "real" isn't a good look. Dislike Primaris all you want, but they fundamentally ARE Space Marines, like it or lump it.
There's nothing wrong with opinion, but blanket statements essentially saying "anything I don't like doesn't exist and isn't REAL" is a form of gatekeeping.
By his logic Abigail isnt a real Space Marine either because his suit of Terminator armor had to be custom made for his physique. So not fitting in a standard suit means he ain't real.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
But won't anyone think about all of the Primaris Space Marine players who are missing out on the ability to use Drop Pod Tactics:
* Strategic use of drop pods to block line of sight
* Strategic use of drop pods to interfere with charges and movement
* Strategic use of the inevitable hyper powered Forge World variant
solkan wrote: But won't anyone think about all of the Primaris Space Marine players who are missing out on the ability to use Drop Pod Tactics:
* Strategic use of drop pods to block line of sight
* Strategic use of drop pods to interfere with charges and movement
* Strategic use of the inevitable hyper powered Forge World variant
We already have fw drop pods, and they aren't "hyper powered", just like most fw units aren't.
My personal preference would be that Primaris are bigger than normal Space Marines, but not different enough to warrant a bigger size capacity in transports. And Space Marines and Primaris can use each others transports; especially Landraiders (they can take Terminators and Primarchs, but not Primaris WTF).
Basically, I'd say if you really like the models, go for it! I'm sure no-one would object too much in a casual setting. Drop Pods are one of my favorite parts of the space marine arsenal, and I think you should enjoy them if you want to!
I might say hold off, as GW are sure to put some primaris pods out in the future (this is tinfoil hat time) which we may see sooner rather than later, as I imagine a big wave of space marine releases being pushed forwards schedule-wise after the virus panic subsides, to recoup some of their losses from a reliable source of cash - the space marine golden goose.
solkan wrote: But won't anyone think about all of the Primaris Space Marine players who are missing out on the ability to use Drop Pod Tactics:
* Strategic use of drop pods to block line of sight
* Strategic use of drop pods to interfere with charges and movement
* Strategic use of the inevitable hyper powered Forge World variant
They can still buy the Drop Pod for that purpose then, just that nobody can ride in it.
Insectum7 wrote:Point to my strawman argument. Yours starts with "Are we saying. . ."
Yeah - because that's what you ARE saying.
Not a strawman when you've built it yourself.
Tyrannic War Veterans aren't Real Marines.
I said one statement as well as other statements. Taking just one out of its context is a form of strawmanning.
Tyrannic War Veterans can ride in Rhinos.
As decided by the general consensus of some of the most qualified and scientifically literate to rule on the matter.
What your credentials are for defining what is and isn't a "Real Marine" are unknown and, barring incredibly unlikely circumstances, insignificant.
Sticks and stones don't counter the point.
If you had one, perhaps. Unfortunately, the point has more holes in it than whatever it's poking in.
The point here is that posting a definition for "no true scotsman" isn't a win button..
All you're stating is your own personal idea of what a Marine is. That's actually fine. But that doesn't make it "Real", and to imply some kind of authority or that anything you don't like isn't "real" isn't a good look. Dislike Primaris all you want, but they fundamentally ARE Space Marines, like it or lump it.
There's nothing wrong with opinion, but blanket statements essentially saying "anything I don't like doesn't exist and isn't REAL" is a form of gatekeeping.
They gatekeep themselves, they have a big fat PRIMARIS keyword.
And I think they're a great marketing move. I just think they're terrible for the setting and game.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Insectum7 wrote:Point to my strawman argument. Yours starts with "Are we saying. . ."
Yeah - because that's what you ARE saying. Not a strawman when you've built it yourself.
Tyrannic War Veterans aren't Real Marines.
I said one statement as well as other statements. Taking just one out of its context is a form of strawmanning.
Tyrannic War Veterans can ride in Rhinos.
But they don't have Terminator Armour, or interchangeable weaponry.
That leaves Scout Bikers, who have no embedded squad weapon options (they have an aux. grenade which every model can take, but you've previous said you don't count that as a squad support weapon, and, as everyone can take it, it's fundamentally no different than Intercessors getting a range of bolt rifle types), no Terminator Armour, and can't get in Rhinos.
Ergo, Scout Bikers aren't Real Marines, and anyone with them in their army isn't a True Space Marine Player. /s
As decided by the general consensus of some of the most qualified and scientifically literate to rule on the matter.
What your credentials are for defining what is and isn't a "Real Marine" are unknown and, barring incredibly unlikely circumstances, insignificant.
Sticks and stones don't counter the point.
If you had one, perhaps. Unfortunately, the point has more holes in it than whatever it's poking in.
The point here is that posting a definition for "no true scotsman" isn't a win button..
It is when it disproves your fallacy.
All you're stating is your own personal idea of what a Marine is. That's actually fine. But that doesn't make it "Real", and to imply some kind of authority or that anything you don't like isn't "real" isn't a good look. Dislike Primaris all you want, but they fundamentally ARE Space Marines, like it or lump it. There's nothing wrong with opinion, but blanket statements essentially saying "anything I don't like doesn't exist and isn't REAL" is a form of gatekeeping.
They gatekeep themselves, they have a big fat PRIMARIS keyword.
By that same logic, Terminators aren't REAL SPACE MARINES because they gatekeep themselves with the <Terminator> keyword, and that stops them doing some of the things REAL MARINES can. Centurions and Bikers too. Those keywords change nothing about the big fat <Space Marine> keyword.
Making comments and arbitrary hoops that a model must jump through to be classed as a "Real Space Marine" is just gatekeeping. It's the kind of things like "you're not a Real 40k player if you play like this" and otherwise propagating a feeling that people with Primaris are somehow less "worthy" of being called a Space Marine player.
I just think they're terrible for the setting and game.
Well, we'll agree to disagree.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/26 10:09:53
40k models arent true scale. Vehicles in general should be much larger than they really are.
FW disagrees with you. Their books list 'real world sizes' of most 40K vehicles and they pretty much match what you'd expect based on the model size. It is just that most people overestimate the size of real tanks; 40K vehicles are actually surprisingly large.
As for drop pods, I really wish they'd either release primaris pods or allow the primaris to ride the old pods. It is really the only vehicle from the old marine motor pool that I miss. It is just so iconic to the marines and it is awkward that the primaris do not have them or an equivalent.
I agree the drop pod screaming down and disgorging the angels of death is a fairly formidable part of the established 40k lore.
One wonders though if we will indeed see this moved away from as -- I believe I recall -- GW -- despite having taken years and years to get to the production of the plastic drop pod -- a while later became a bit .. less than positively inclined -- about them as once they're on the table they don't really do that much compared to say, an actual mobile tank.
One hesitates to use the term but it 's been deemed not that great a model to actually play with compared to , say, a repulsor.
Course this may also be related to the numbers of them sold already .....
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
That said, I'd love to see primaris drop pods which also have actually useful turrets.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Yeah, having Drop Pods do more than just kind of sit around would be appreciated - while I love the models and the theme of getting to actually place them down, they'd be arguably better off as a stratagem/warlord trait, or as a purchasable terrain piece for the army.
Yeh. Even have it be purchasable as a Fortification would be nice, with the ability to use it like a building for cover and it having some nice firepower for its cost.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Nevelon wrote: Deathwatch have a strat to DS them i believe.
But no pods. It’s silly how they separate the transports, but it’s where we are...
Gw is separating all the stuff for when they eventually put all the non Primaris stuff into legends. Can't copy right spacemarines but Primaris Marines on the other hand.
reds8n wrote: One wonders though if we will indeed see this moved away from as -- I believe I recall -- GW -- despite having taken years and years to get to the production of the plastic drop pod -- a while later became a bit .. less than positively inclined -- about them as once they're on the table they don't really do that much compared to say, an actual mobile tank.
One hesitates to use the term but it 's been deemed not that great a model to actually play with compared to , say, a repulsor.
Gotta disagree, that guaranteed alpha strike is a phenomenal ability.
I found them almost necessary during 6th and they were certainly popular during 7th. Imo they're baller now with the deep striking turn 1, imo.
Melissia wrote: That said, I'd love to see primaris drop pods which also have actually useful turrets.
If Primaris get pods I'm sure they'll have like six different guns that all do nearly the same thing but are named wordily.
There used to be a FW turret drop pod with assult cannons instead of transport capacity:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/27 08:44:35
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
