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 p5freak wrote:
Did anyone notice that splitting horrors doesnt cost reinforcement points anymore ?

Wha? is that in a FAQ I missed?

Rihgu wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Did anyone notice that splitting horrors doesnt cost reinforcement points anymore ?

Wha? is that in a FAQ I missed?

BRB p. 241 Reinforcement points, adding models to existing units doesnt cost reinforcement points.

The Horror datasheet explicitly says it costs Reinforcement Points, sadly.

Right, but you are supposed to use the latest rules, which is the 9th edition rulebook.

 p5freak wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Did anyone notice that splitting horrors doesnt cost reinforcement points anymore ?

Wha? is that in a FAQ I missed?

BRB p. 241 Reinforcement points, adding models to existing units doesnt cost reinforcement points.

Does that mean poxwalkers can gain free models again

darthryan wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Did anyone notice that splitting horrors doesnt cost reinforcement points anymore ?

Wha? is that in a FAQ I missed?

BRB p. 241 Reinforcement points, adding models to existing units doesnt cost reinforcement points.

Does that mean poxwalkers can gain free models again

It looks like it, because poxwalkers don't have a rule that explicitly says they have to pay reinforcement points.

Datasheets override rulebook, and the latest Pink Horror datasheet says you pay reinforcement points, sadly. But Poxwalkers say no such thing, so they seem to be golden pending some errata, FAQ, or datasheet update.

FAQ’s clarified that Poxwalkers pay RP’s to grow beyond starting size

That FAQ is from the DG codex, and technically only applies to DG. Im not sure anymore if the rule from the 9th BRB takes precedence, or the horrors datasheet from 8th edition.

Nurglings seem to be essential if we want to be competitive. They are literally our best and only scouts. If you go first, putting a scout unit (nurglings) on mid board objectives is very powerful. On his turn, he has to respond, and since Nurglings are objective secured because they are troops, he can't just put a fast unit on it like Bikes. He literally has to destroy your nurglings or put an equal or higher number of obsec troops on them. Otherwise, by start of turn 2, you will be racking in VP for holding main objectives. But the importance in nurglings then seems to mean that we have to play multi chaos god chaos daemons soup or Nurgle keyword. Otherwise, we can't have nurglings (unless we summon them in)...

MoP can do some of what Nurglings do. Can advance and summon a tough unit. Wouldn’t be ObSec, though, nor would it be in play at the start of our first turn.

Alpha Legion and World Eaters are both capable of performing scouting roles. They can park ObSec cultists or CSM - or Berzerkers - on midfield objectives. Or, perhaps, possessed or Oblits. In a DK context, that could even be Nurgle Oblits with a Gnarlmaw within reach.

Nurglings are by far the best scout IMO as they get DR and a good points-sounds ratio to mitigate their Smite exposure.

So been thinking Spawn are actually pretty good as a cheap obj hanger on for daemons.

Now as far as i can see the only negative of doing something like this:

Outrider (3cp) <Daemons / CSM>
DP, axe <skullreaver> <khorne> 195
5 Furies <khorne> 45
5 Furies <khorne> 45
5 Furies <khorne> 45
2 Spawn (CSM) <khorne> 46
2 Spawn (CSM) <khorne> 46
2 Spawn (CSM) <khorne> 46
skull cannon 90

Is that the DP would loose giving duders (+ him self) re-rolls to charge right?

This is in the scope of a 2k list where i'm rocking up 9 FA choices


edit: ignore the relic relaise that DT is not BF just playing around

With the new rules for morale, I think that having a patrol with Skarbrand and a regular bloodthirster could be a good combination, even with the points increase. The Skarbrand aura will wreck the morale rolls for the enemy which will spiral with CA, while the unnamed one will keep your guys' morale intact. Skarbrand could also be used to give CSM units another attack as well that are from another patrol, one that is led by a Chaos lord and exalted champion. A third patrol led by a herald and Skulltaker could further make your bloodletters and/or daemon engines more powerful, while a backline of skullcannons could be useful artillery. You could also replace the champion (less overall useful than the lord unless you're running Black Legion) with Abaddon for CSM morale protection.

Something else to mention is that using the Blue Scribes as a warlord unit could be quite a good choice in a daemonkin army. First, their daemonspark trait could be great for Tzeentch-marked dakka engines and obliterators, especially now that moving and using heavy weapons isn't as risky anymore. Second, they're great as a totally-not-a-psyker psychic unit that can spew out smites and other powers that could allow an army without any official psychic units to get the fifteen extra VP if you are facing an army with the actual psykers in them.

I've been dabbling with triple exalteds, and they are just great fun and a great soup ingredient, but they gobble up your CP something chronic. The basic batallion looks like:

LoC with robe, roll on exalted
KoS with aegis, pick 4++
Thirster with Armour of Scorn, roll on exalted
3 blobs of nurglings

I've souped it with these patrols: World Eater zerkers in bawkses, Thousand Sons, Thousand Sons with Magnus and Knights. I really like it with WE actually, and add a squad of 9 flamers in that combo. Just crazy threat overload fun.

I jumped into Nurgle for this edition (starting with Daemons, eventually expanding to Death Guard as well based on how fast I can paint things), and I'm honestly looking forward to the new edition, and have been puzzling over how the book has changed:

+Morale punishes us less than it used to if it goes south (though I appreciate Sloppity Bilepiper's morale gimmick enough to want to run him just to get daemons back more often).

+All the non GUO Greater Daemons with shooting attack options can use those in melee, which helps them reap chaffe easier (also it buffed Rotigus who couldn't shoot into melee before).

+Since heralds no longer share slots for some reason it's cheap to buy into multiple detachements if we want to maximize our support buffs (I can see double patrols being popular for this as it means 4 HQs and 2 Troop Choices for 2CP, quite a decent steal honestly)

+Units we charge with FLY no longer get to shoot for free if they escape combat

+Furies have plastic models thanks to Warcry and honestly might be worth looking at as a cheap flying screen unit.

+Skull Cannons, Burning Chariots, and Soul Grinders (all models with heavy weapon shooting attacks) got better thanks to how heavy weapons work in 9th.

+Feculant Gnarlmaws are improved because the new detachment system makes taking them worth doing.

So I've seen some complaints online that Nurgle is too slow for this edition and I had to scratch my head a bit. Unsupported, sure, but Spoilpox makes them movement 6", the trees let them run and charge, With that you're looking at a 24" threat range on a smaller board. Nurgle is more of a "go second" army, but it's worth doing so just to have charge targets (unless you're just running a list that fills the board with Nurglings before your opponent can move, then you may want to go first).

Plus your opponent will be trying to move forward to engage with you, so you'll both be hitting the mid field and then grinding from there, and grinding is something Nurgle still excels at.

I think one of Nurgle's better changes is the ability to toss the -1 to hit around at different targets. Like the GUO who previously didn't need it, instead of the Plaguebearers who tap into it naturally when over 20 models.

Long story short, I feel like the army has tools under its belt to work better this edition, even if it has to worry a little bit about blasts (I'd worry mainly about missile launcher heavy weapon teams or Devastators to be honest, since they throw so many dice on a cheap firing platform, and not the internet's new boogeyman the Wyvern since that only averages 4 Plaguebearers killed in a single shooting phase).

All Space Marines are getting boosted to 2W, Flamers are going up to 12”, Multi-Meltas all get to double tap, Heavy Bolters do 2D.

Chaos Spawn, Beasts of Nurgle, and champion power fists are going to become a lot more useful. Forgefiends might have the raw damage to overcome their poor BS and become worth it. Blight-haulers might well be a top 10 unit. Plague Drones will benefit. Oblits and Bletters will remain strong - though the former will want to ensure a decent damage roll. All Daemon princes are laughing.

No indication of what plague Spewers etc are going to look like, but fleshmowers and blight launchers are looking good.

On the psychic front, MW spam is probably going to be less useful. Nurgle’s various damage boosts, on the other hand, will be significantly useful - especially on 1D stuff like Possessed.

The cheapening of Screamers will probably make their 2D bites useful enough to overcome their swingyness. Karanak can do similar, only he actually hits a lot.

I haven't looked into 9th edition yet, but I have 15 Slaaneshi-looking Possessed, 3 Greater Possessed and some Wordbearer-ish HQ types on the assembling/painting table. With 8th edition I wanted to buy some Slaanesh girls, heralds and elites as advance troops for them, or possibly a DP.

How would that work best in 9th? Pay the CP for a patrol to get the focus going, or maybe even just save some RP for summoning?

I mean, one argument against summoning in 8th was the CP opportunity cost for not taking a detachment. That should go the other way now, saving CP and slots?

All other ups and downs of summoning didnt change in 9th. Keep in mind that summoned units dont benefit from detachment abilities. No advance and charge for them.

Summoned daemons still get the benefit of loci abilities, as long as the HQ unit wasn't summoned itself. I.e. if you have a herald in your list and you summon some daemonettes the daemonettes get advance and charge when within the range of the herald, but if you summon the herald it doesn't give the loci, even to daemonettes that did start in your army. Slaanesh is the only loci really worth building around, though.

The bigger consideration most of the time is that if you don't shell out the 2CP for the patrol you don't get access to the daemon strats, and there are a bunch of units in the daemon codex that benefit a lot from access to strats, and some that flat-out aren't worth taking without access (i.e. bloodcrushers, the MW strat is the only reason you'd take them).

yukishiro1 wrote:
Summoned daemons still get the benefit of loci abilities, as long as the HQ unit wasn't summoned itself. I.e. if you have a herald in your list and you summon some daemonettes the daemonettes get advance and charge when within the range of the herald, but if you summon the herald it doesn't give the loci, even to daemonettes that did start in your army. Slaanesh is the only loci really worth building around, though.

You are correct.

How does it work, will all space marine fractions get the +1W terminator etc. at the same time with a faq or will each and every one have to wait for there own codex?

Weapons that are shared across codexes will get updated with the release of the SM codex. Everything else, like unit stat profile and weapons that aren't in the SM codex, will not come until the codex of the faction in question.

E.g. when SM codex releases chaos gets the 2D heavy bolter, but you'll have to wait for a new DG codex to get the 2W Plague Marines or for the range on chaos-specific flamer weapons to get buffed.

Just to add to this thread. You can run a Khorne Lord of skulls alongside Khorne herald with a Crimson Crown, and three skull cannons. The crimson crown buffs all three skull cannons as well as the LOS. So, you can actually play shooty khorne. And of course, LOS is super mean in melee. And you will have your blood letter bombs dropping in from deep strike as well. Not quite sure if its enough shooting though.

Alternatively, if you want to go for volume of shots. Then the crimson crown herald buff skull cannons and Forgefiends instead. Same deal. And that means you are taking maybe a patrol or batallion of CSM, so you can take other shooty stuff as well. Not quite sure if its worth it though, but its an interesting theme to explore.

Khorne is good at melee anyway. So this kind of helps out its shooting which it is traditionally not so hot in.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Just to add to this thread. You can run a Khorne Lord of skulls alongside Khorne herald with a Crimson Crown, and three skull cannons. The crimson crown buffs all three skull cannons as well as the LOS. So, you can actually play shooty khorne. And of course, LOS is super mean in melee. And you will have your blood letter bombs dropping in from deep strike as well. Not quite sure if its enough shooting though.

Thats a stupid idea, first he costs 3CP, second, an only shooting LOS is very bad. He wants to be in melee, and shooting in the same turn.

Well, not to say he can't move up the board while shooting...

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Well, not to say he can't move up the board while shooting...

And moving out of the crimson crown bubble ? If the crown follows him the skull cannons will be left behind.

 Nora wrote:
How does it work, will all space marine fractions get the +1W terminator etc. at the same time with a faq or will each and every one have to wait for there own codex?

I read the WHC article again and it seems pretty clear no chaos stuff is officially getting the 2W thing until they get a new codex.

So could be a ways off.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/

And as for future codexes for other genetically engineered transhuman warriors (both of the shiny grey and spikey variety), the same will apply to them. Just think how durable that will make units like Rubric Marines or Plague Marines

These new rules and points will come into effect officially, as new codexes are released.

I think once the marine codex drops there will be enough community backlash GW will end up doing a chaos FAQ with stats and pts changes. Because GW tend to react to lots of barking these days and this will cause a lot of noise.

 p5freak wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Well, not to say he can't move up the board while shooting...

And moving out of the crimson crown bubble ? If the crown follows him the skull cannons will be left behind.

The skull cannons can follow too. Nowadays, there is no penalty for vehicles to move and shoot. Even skull cannons pack a pretty mean punch in a fight.

So I tried to reproduce my 8th ed Khorne Daemonkin army in 9th ed and here's what I have:

Rejigged it from 3 detachments into 2, dropped the dark apostle because I no longer have space for him and condensed the Blood Letter Bombs into 2 units rather than 3. This set up leaves me with 1CP after I've put all the Daemons in deepstrike, which is... not good, but the only other option is footslogging the Bloodletters and I don't fancy that.

Open to suggestions on rejigging it more, dropping something or suggestions on what to put in the 127pt hole in my list.

Cheers.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Summoned daemons still get the benefit of loci abilities, as long as the HQ unit wasn't summoned itself. I.e. if you have a herald in your list and you summon some daemonettes the daemonettes get advance and charge when within the range of the herald, but if you summon the herald it doesn't give the loci, even to daemonettes that did start in your army. Slaanesh is the only loci really worth building around, though.

The bigger consideration most of the time is that if you don't shell out the 2CP for the patrol you don't get access to the daemon strats, and there are a bunch of units in the daemon codex that benefit a lot from access to strats, and some that flat-out aren't worth taking without access (i.e. bloodcrushers, the MW strat is the only reason you'd take them).

Second all this - Slaanesh possessed in particular want to be able to advance & charge, which if you’re not going renegades or Bile means taking a Slaanesh daemons detachment. This also unlocks the Locus of Grace Stratagem, which has pretty solid synergy.