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Anyone used Thousand Sons Daemonkin much? I previously had in mind a supreme command of Magnus, two disc sorcerers, a Tzaangor shaman and a daemon Prince, but that’s been disrupted by the new detachments

Now, I guess I’m thinking a patrol with disc sorcerer and prince, a squad of rubrics because the 2W buff, fusillade, and infiltration makes them very intriguing, the shaman, a squad of enlightened, and a vortex beast

Could economise by switching the rubrics for a couple of spawn and calling it an outriders detachment


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All to be accompanied by a detachment of daemons, and possibly Magnus and/or word bearers with possessed horde


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On the note of Rubricae, I think it’s worth noting that 9ed is a game of midfield objective control, and reviewing the options Chaos has when it comes to infiltration:

- Nurglings (innate, DAEMON keyword);

- Rubricae (1CP, no DAEMON keyword);

- Alpha Legion infantry (1CP, not true infiltration as of FAQ, potentially DAEMON keyword);

- World Eaters infantry (1CP, not true infiltration, potentially DAEMON keyword).

So, there’s ways and means to get a great variety of units, potentially with synergy with any Herald or spell, into the midfield before the game begins.

OP edit - dedicated Death Guard 9ed tactica thread is here.

We are entering a new era of 40k where all Space Marines have at least 2W and various weapons are upgrading

This has various consequences for us:

- Flame weapons are getting more range: units like Aggressors are going to be harder to mob; Defilers with Heavy Flamers are going to be more dangerous (no word on DG plague spray type weapons)

- Heavy Bolters do more damage:

- Metagames will contain more 2W targets, giving an indirect buff to medium damage stuff: Daemon Princes, Skulltaker, fighter Heralds, Bloodletters, Beasts of Nurgle, Fiends of Slaanesh, Screamers, Plague Drones, Skull Cannon, Burning Chariot, Soul Grinder, Plague Banner, Virulent Blessing; Lords of Skulls, Heldrakes, Venomcrawlers, Defilers, Fiends, Oblits, Spawn; Bloat-Drones, Plagueburst Crawlers, Revered Hosts, Rampant Techno-Virus; Fated Mutation.

- Metagames will feature more 2D weapons (especially Heavy Bolters): Plaguebears will die faster, big stuff will take heavier chip damage, Slaaneshi Possessed will really appreciate Delightful Agonies

- a bunch of CSM units are going to get tougher in due time; Warp Talons will be as robust as Possessed, maaaybe Possessed and Oblits will get more wounds

Matched play rules, p282: “Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first round”

The following T1 strategies are dead until further notice:

- running a Master of Possession up the board and dropping like a GD or Soul Grinder right in your opponent’s face

- having a Tzeentch character drop your Pink Horrors into fireball range without the, advancing or getting shot up

- having Horticulous drop a Gnarlmaw in a commanding position

- having a Herald of Khorne jump on a Skull Altar in a commanding position

A poxbringer in a nurgle patrol with its loci helps out CSM and deathguard daemon engines when they roll 6s to wound. It even applies to shooting. That's very interesting.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
A poxbringer in a nurgle patrol with its loci helps out CSM and deathguard daemon engines when they roll 6s to wound. It even applies to shooting. That's very interesting.

Especially the ones whose guns Str is based on their own Str.

Just read all three pages and this forum goes all about synergy between CSM and Daemons. I’m a Mono Khorne and an Iron Warriors player and with 9ed, for Khorne is to find a way to hold objectives and is where I need to work a patrol detachment for that purpose.

 hellpato wrote:
Just read all three pages and this forum goes all about synergy between CSM and Daemons. I’m a Mono Khorne and an Iron Warriors player and with 9ed, for Khorne is to find a way to hold objectives and is where I need to work a patrol detachment for that purpose.

Well, the banner Bletter bomb is a very powerful way to get an ObSec horde with an invuln onto a backfield objective - and will deal well with the Marine upgrade’s influx of 2W infantry. The loci of daemon heroes give charge rerolls to CSM Khorne daemon engines, Mutilators, Oblits, Warp Talons, DP’s, and possessed - Karanak is an especially useful choice due to his speed, cheapness, and DTW perks.

For holding your own objectives, Bletters aren't ideal. It’s inefficient to pay for their stabbing capabilities and then sit around a campfire getting shot. I suspect CSM, Cultists, and even WE Zerks are going to be decent, but if you want to go ultra pure KDK, minimum BLs will probably be adequate - let’s face it, the play is probably going to be a banzai charge to try to take the centre and enemy DZ objectives

How is the Blood Slaughterer of Khorne now with the Daemonkin?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
A poxbringer in a nurgle patrol with its loci helps out CSM and deathguard daemon engines when they roll 6s to wound. It even applies to shooting. That's very interesting.

I always forget this.

 hellpato wrote:
How is the Blood Slaughterer of Khorne now with the Daemonkin?

+ Wrecks any Space Marine infantry that’s not got an invuln
+ Where Soulforged Packs are allowed, absolute top tier mobility
+ Even more so with Violent Urgency
+ Even without the above, 16” advance is decent for hopping between 9ed LOS blindspots
+ Charge reroll auras are always nice, and it keeps pace well with Karanak or a Skullreaver Prince
+ Unusual battlefield role helps build a 9ed Patrol into a DE Jamboree

o Engine War gave it nothing
o FW stuff has uncertain futures as we await new rules

- 10W means that if it’s a hard counter to anything important, your opponent will not struggle to delete it given the chance
- Impaler Harpoon is gimmick tier with BS4+
- Soulforged Pack perks are currently off the table in tourneys (new Codex may reinstate them as stratagems or WTs)

Combat attrition and splitting horrors is weird. When 5 pinks die they can split in 10 blues. This increases the unit size by 5. 20 horrors are now 25. When morale fails you have to roll 25 dice, not just 20. Splitting them makes the unit more vulnerable to combat attrition losses.

A whole bunch of character auras are going to become restricted to a new ‘CORE’ keyword, which seems to be mainly restricted to units made up of low wound count models

The article specifically gives examples of tanks not being eligible for Captain auras. The future for Daemonkin lists based on heralds and DPs enhancing daemon engines is now highly uncertain

Codex Death Guard will be our first bunch of specifics, from which the broad strokes of our future may become divinable

Has anyone here been able to use a Master of Possession to summon a large daemon unit, like a greater daemon, prince, or large power level unit of multiple models? Incursion strikes me as a good way to summon in daemons beyond a handful of troops, but I haven't tried it out yet and was wondering if it's a viable tactic. From my knowledge of the rules, a Word Bearer MOP with the Malefic Tome would be the best way to go about doing this.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Has anyone here been able to use a Master of Possession to summon a large daemon unit, like a greater daemon, prince, or large power level unit of multiple models? Incursion strikes me as a good way to summon in daemons beyond a handful of troops, but I haven't tried it out yet and was wondering if it's a viable tactic. From my knowledge of the rules, a Word Bearer MOP with the Malefic Tome would be the best way to go about doing this.

The high bar to successfully casting, and the many counters (strats that can cancel the cast, even if the WB strat prevents DTW) makes it a strictly gimmick play. But if it does work, you can get a slow but strong unit - BoNs, GUO, SG - into the enemy’s face, or get a horde of Horrors within shooting range without having to advance or risk getting shot first.

 lindsay40k wrote:
A whole bunch of character auras are going to become restricted to a new ‘CORE’ keyword, which seems to be mainly restricted to units made up of low wound count models

The article specifically gives examples of tanks not being eligible for Captain auras. The future for Daemonkin lists based on heralds and DPs enhancing daemon engines is now highly uncertain

Codex Death Guard will be our first bunch of specifics, from which the broad strokes of our future may become divinable

This is a big concern. Auras were important for running Daemons in 8th, we don't know yet how this will impact armies in 9th.

Even without worrying about Daemon Engines, the article made it sound like auras are being reimagined as orders given to nearby infantry. This could impact units like Bloodcrushers, Seekers, Beasts of Nurgle, Chariots, etc.

Codex Chaos Daemons probably needs a complete rewrite for 9th edition for us to have competitive lists. For now, I'm not focusing on much beyond Greater Daemons, Heralds, Infantry and Scenery. I just don't want to optimize too much until we know more about what's to come.

I think key with the Aura and CORE unit will be inside the keyword and the wording. For now I see affecting only the SM and other strong army create by the WAAC players. Just wait and see.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Has anyone here been able to use a Master of Possession to summon a large daemon unit, like a greater daemon, prince, or large power level unit of multiple models? Incursion strikes me as a good way to summon in daemons beyond a handful of troops, but I haven't tried it out yet and was wondering if it's a viable tactic. From my knowledge of the rules, a Word Bearer MOP with the Malefic Tome would be the best way to go about doing this.

The high bar to successfully casting, and the many counters (strats that can cancel the cast, even if the WB strat prevents DTW) makes it a strictly gimmick play. But if it does work, you can get a slow but strong unit - BoNs, GUO, SG - into the enemy’s face, or get a horde of Horrors within shooting range without having to advance or risk getting shot first.

A venomcrawler could help increase the odds, but you are right about it possibly not working. For Khorne daemonkin, I was thinking that a double battalion of Khorne daemons and Khornate Red Corsairs could also be a good combination. Having the RC battalion be the main one could allow me to cancel out the CP cost of the daemon battalion (I could have three or five-man squads of cheap CSM to hold objectives), while the rest of the battalion could be berserkers and daemon engines. There's also the advance and charge trait that goes really well with the berserkers.

Not to mention that you'd still have access to a psyker for warptime, which would significantly increase the capability of the daemonengines and Berzerkers.

Has anyone here used the flickering flames ability to boost the accuracy of daemon engines' shooting? I was thinking that summoning in a cheap herald and using this power could be useful.

Flickering flames is +1 to wound, and yes, i have used it. However, i dont think daemon engines are worth using.

It’s not a terrible idea with Venomcrawler spam, where the bonus compounds with the herald strength boost. If you’re facing a target against which that aura will improve all three gunbeasts’ chances of wounding, it’s something. And if not, you can spend the reinforcement points on something else, say Flamers.

Gimmicky, but it’s a niche for those who want to make summoning work.

any thoughts about the update rules of the Chaos Decimator? Me i dont like the nerf on the butcher cannon but i understand it.

 hellpato wrote:
any thoughts about the update rules of the Chaos Decimator? Me i dont like the nerf on the butcher cannon but i understand it.

considering the Decimator also dropped in price... since it also get's full weapons for free beyond the petard...

yeah S 7 still hurts but it did get better ap aswell so imo it is now better.

Wow. Codex Death Guard is bringing:
- 5A WS/BS 3+ Defilers for all
- 4A Possessed for all
- Plague weapons on DG Possessed, unclear what this means for polytheists, WE, and EC
- also 2W 2A Plague Marines for all

That’s doubling the average swing of Possessed and eliminating rolling a 1 altogether. Khorne fight twice, EC fight first, WB D2, and DG buffs (from DG or ND) are looking *scary*.