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Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




Oh, yes...the current sculpts look like shadowy Aeldari-Daemon hybrids, which what they are supposed to be. The older version had a BDSM-Coven sort of vibe as far as I recall?


I actually had to look them up just now to refresh my memory. Your description is accurate.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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 harlokin wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:


Would you say the current look is an improvement on the originals, though?


Oh, yes...the current sculpts look like shadowy Aeldari-Daemon hybrids, which what they are supposed to be. The older version had a BDSM-Coven sort of vibe as far as I recall?


Basically. They were poorly detailed models with pistol and hand claws. Most looked terrible and they didn't do much that other units didn't.

The 'new' ones are a bit too D&D drow/warcraft emo hunters, but at least they aren't terrible sculpts, and do something different from other units in the book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 20:39:28


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Right behind you.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Eldar.

Guard don't need more model kits, they need a complete overhaul of how the faction works. Until there's an actual, meaningful difference between Catachan and Cadian and Tallarn and Vostroyan models? New kits mean jack. Wishlist for them all you want, but you need to accept that.

Quoting this for effect.

You cannot, and should not, advocate for Guard to remain the same bland mess they have been for the past decades.
You want Tallarn, Tanith, Catachan, etc? Cool. Make the models mean something. They don't look like they deserve a 5+ armor save currently.
Cadians and Vostroyans? They look too heavily armored!
Special and heavy weapons are another big issue: some of them(Tallarn and Tanith) actually had 'signature' weapons back in the Doctrine days that allowed for them to forego a Heavy Weapons Team to add a single Sniper Rifle to the squad while retaining their Special Weapon options. Jungle Fighters(the signature Catachan doctrine) forebade you from taking Lascannons but you could replace a HWT with a Heavy Flamer instead.


It's all well and good to talk about WarCry or Necromunda...but that situation doesn't apply to Guard. The whole list is and has been a mess since the Doctrines book went away.
A lot of the 'specialness' of the subfactions was present in those Doctrines. Jungle Fighters got a 6+ save but received a 4+ Cover save when in forest or jungle, infiltrate if they deploy in woods/jungle, could see 12" through forest/jungle, and moved at full speed through that same. It couldn't ever be combined with Cameloline(adding 1 to Cover save) or Carapace Armor(4+ armor save).
Light Infantry got you +1 dice when rolling your move through difficult terrain, infiltration if the mission permitted, and prohibited Mechanized or Carapace.
And then there was the fact that Doctrine points actually had to be expended to 'unlock' certain units from the codex army roster. Things like Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Special Weapon Squads, Heavy Weapon Platoons, etc were all 'locked' by default if you used a Doctrine.

Until actual, meaningful developments are made with regards to the Guard Infantry? New kits are frigging pointless. The book needs to start being somewhat restrictive or encouraging of thematic forces rather than just 'take whatever you want and it gets <Regiment>!'.


In an ideal world?
Catachans, Tallarn, and Cadians would both get the ability to have a Vanguard Detachment consisting of your Warlord and an appropriate 'Veterans' unit(a scouty-styled veteran unit for Tallarn and Catachans and a Kasrkin/Grenadier style for Cadians) refund you as though it was one of the 'core' ones.
Conscripts wouldn't count towards your 'mandatory' Troop choices unless you were playing Valhallans.
Steel Legion, Cadians, and Tallarn would get Spearheads refunding you as though 'Core' if you had a Tank Commander as your Warlord with LRBTs.
Mordians, Steel Legion, Cadians get a Vanguard detachment bonus with the 'standard' Infantry Veterans.

Heavy Weapon Teams get stripped out of Infantry Squads in favor of 'single man' Heavy Weapons. Missile Launchers, Heavy Stubbers, the 'heavy lasgun' that we've had in lore for years now.
Heavy Weapon Teams remain as a Heavy Support choice but get to split out after deploying.
Rapiers get added to the Heavy Support options with some more esoteric weapons.

'Infantry Squads' would be the default 5+ save unit.
Veterans would be split into three distinctive entities:
-Grenadier veterans. 4+ save, hellguns, no heavy weapon teams but access to Missile Launchers, Heavy Stubbers with variable ammo types, grenade launchers on the hellguns.
-Scout Veterans. 6+ save but with cameloline cloaks/material rules for a bonus to saves while in/on cover. Lasguns, CCWs, pistols or shotguns. No HWTs but access to sniper rifles, flamethrowers, and a bonus to artillery that targets units visible to them.
-Infantry Veterans. 5+ save, lasguns, HWTs. Basically the 'default' Infantry Squad just with a bonus Leadership.

There's a ton more to say on the matter, but this is what needs to baseline be done in order to make the army actually a viable choice these days.
After all, why play Guard if you can just play GSC or AdMech or Tau instead?

Dysartes wrote:IG? One reworked Regiment (to test the waters - I'd lean towards Tallarn, or a Mordian/Praetorian set, myself), plus the return of Rough Riders.

God no, keep Rough Riders with that Death Korps trash.

You want a reworked Regiment?
Make it one that actually doesn't have rules currently. Make it one that could be actually interesting and unique.


Necromundan Spyders.

Just because it's your little soapbox, Kan, doesn't mean anyone else has to accept your theory of how things should be.

That's fine and dandy. But my theory actually makes the army interesting rather than "Here's my <insert regiment of the week>!" based off whatever cheap third party trash someone picked up that week.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 20:52:01


 
   
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Make the models mean something. They don't look like they deserve a 5+ armor save currently.
Cadians and Vostroyans? They look too heavily armored!


So ... wouldn't this be the perfect reason to give them new models? To address that issue? I get wanting rules to differentiate them, but the current line looks kind of silly proportionally. They're all over the place. You wouldn't want that addressed at the same time as making them "look like they deserve that armor save"?

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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Hamburg

Even more Marines?
Do you think that GW has a choice?

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Right behind you.

Tycho wrote:
Make the models mean something. They don't look like they deserve a 5+ armor save currently.
Cadians and Vostroyans? They look too heavily armored!


So ... wouldn't this be the perfect reason to give them new models? To address that issue? I get wanting rules to differentiate them, but the current line looks kind of silly proportionally. They're all over the place. You wouldn't want that addressed at the same time as making them "look like they deserve that armor save"?

I don't want the range touched until they're willing to commit to actually redesigning the army from the ground up. Any model redesign needs to factor that in.

And right now? They've shown over the years that they have zero interest when it comes to changing the Guard to be more reflective of its lore.

The Tempestus was a good step in the right direction, differentiating the previous fluff of the "Stormtrooper Regiments" into something more uniquely suitable to the Imperium.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 20:54:22


 
   
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Looking at the armies, it's actually impressive how modern most are now. Orks, Eldar and Tau Auxillery could use some finecast replacement, Guard could use an update as their infantry has aged poorly compared to the other human minis out now, and custodes could stand a range update to feel more complete.
1K sons could use some more unique stuff as well to diffrentate them a bit more.

IMHO Orks Eldar Guard and Custodes should be the next armies to get big range updates in addition a looot of characters are still in finecast and I'd like to see GW start moving to update the ones they can. Perhaps publish a small boxed game called "hero arena" thats all about having characters fight and then replace a finecast HQ for every army in the game,

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Mysterious Techpriest




IMHO Orks Eldar Guard and Custodes should be the next armies to get big range updates in addition a looot of characters are still in finecast and I'd like to see GW start moving to update the ones they can. Perhaps publish a small boxed game called "hero arena" thats all about having characters fight and then replace a finecast HQ for every army in the game,


Orks are an interesting one for me. I have a huge army filled with boyz and bikes and dreads. Most of the line is pretty new and maybe just needs an update for anything still in Finecast, but I would have thought Boyz would be a slam dunk for a new kit. However, each time I see this brought up, most of the hardcore Ork players seem to be happy with them and don't feel a new kit is needed. Would be interesting to see stats on it for "wants new boyz" vs "current boyz are fine".

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in ca
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Tycho wrote:
IMHO Orks Eldar Guard and Custodes should be the next armies to get big range updates in addition a looot of characters are still in finecast and I'd like to see GW start moving to update the ones they can. Perhaps publish a small boxed game called "hero arena" thats all about having characters fight and then replace a finecast HQ for every army in the game,


Orks are an interesting one for me. I have a huge army filled with boyz and bikes and dreads. Most of the line is pretty new and maybe just needs an update for anything still in Finecast, but I would have thought Boyz would be a slam dunk for a new kit. However, each time I see this brought up, most of the hardcore Ork players seem to be happy with them and don't feel a new kit is needed. Would be interesting to see stats on it for "wants new boyz" vs "current boyz are fine".


I'm in the current boyz are fine camp. Orks as a race of "obvious non humans" age pretty gracefully. compared to say Imperial Guard so look less dated, the current box has lots of options for custom building etc that there is a very real concern would be lost in a new kit. also a new kit would be more expensive. Orks need holes plugged and finecast replaced, not perfectly servicable plastic kits replaced with something thats more of a side grade

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 21:41:47


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Stevenage, UK

I'll echo the sentiments that Eldar and Dark Eldar need updating the most. Harlequins also reeeeeeally need some new units to flesh them out.

Behind that? Guard could indeed do with fresh models. My first thought was that of skepticism that there'd be more than 2 outfits updated, maximum - but thinking about it - you're really only looking at refreshing a handful of kits per outfit, right? Infantry squad, command squad and heavy weapons unit (and who knows, maybe some new squad variant like a special weapons unit, tankbusters or something - but that's just infantry with extra gubbins).
So it should be absolutely possible for GW to update 3 or 4 regiments over the course of a wave.

Orks could definitely do with a few gaps plugged - more Warboss options, for starters - but I don't think they need a complete refresh.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




I'm in the current boyz are fine camp. Orks as a race of "obvious non humans" age pretty gracefully. compared to say Imperial Guard so look less dated, the current box has lots of options for custom building etc that there is a very real concern would be lost in a new kit. also a new kit would be more expensive. Orks need holes plugged and finecast replaced, not perfectly servicable plastic kits replaced with something thats more of a side grade


That makes sense. SO you would be looking at, not necessarily a full over-haul, but updating to get rid of Finecast, and filling holes? What do you think they're missing?

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





- Eldars for remaking units, especially all the aspect warriors, along with a rule change to make them more efficient than the corresponding primaris unit at their role, but less efficient/more vulnerable at everything else.
- Dark Eldars for adding in new units, all the units they lost and more stuff.
- Guards too I guess.
- I definitely won't complain if my Sisters of Battle get new stuff!!

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
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Tycho wrote:
I'm in the current boyz are fine camp. Orks as a race of "obvious non humans" age pretty gracefully. compared to say Imperial Guard so look less dated, the current box has lots of options for custom building etc that there is a very real concern would be lost in a new kit. also a new kit would be more expensive. Orks need holes plugged and finecast replaced, not perfectly servicable plastic kits replaced with something thats more of a side grade


That makes sense. SO you would be looking at, not necessarily a full over-haul, but updating to get rid of Finecast, and filling holes? What do you think they're missing?


mostly an overhaul of finecast. but I'm of the opinion that the lack of a mega armor warboss is a crime. when I think a warboss I tend to think in big armor ala well.. gorgutz from DOW

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Eldar, without a doubt.

The Avatar currently has two resin kits, and so a single plastic kit with optional sword and spear is a no brainer. Exodite players are lucky as they have the AOS treelord, who looks awesome.

With the common Dire Avengers already in plastic, and that he is the top-dog of Phoenix Lords, Asurmen is the logical choice for the next P-Lord release. In fact, he should have been the first. Glad he wasn't( banshee fanboy ) but by rights he should have been.

Not only a solid choice for regular 40K but a key choice for any Asuryani Kill Team, the Striking Scorpions are in big demand for an update.

After that, it would be Warlocks and Rangers...

...sod it. EVERYTHING.

Oh, nearly forgot - Tallarn Desert Raiders. No interest in the Imperial Guard but I do enjoy a bit of Lawrence of Arabia, and always fancied a set back in the day. Wish I had done it!





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 22:30:16


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Kanluwen wrote:*wall of text*


Most of what you're asking for is the ruleset from 2nd/3rd ed. I have the 3rd ed Guard codex and, while I like the rules they have in there, and some of the ideas you mentioned, I'm not sold on them working with the modern ruleset. Modern GW likes to pretend that they're simplifying the game, and what you're describing doesn't go with that.

Also, on the topic of modern GW, I'd expect modern GW to treat big alterations and differences between subfactions like what you're describing as warranting Codex Supplements a la Space Marines. Guard simply isn't (quite) as popular as Space Marines currently, and I doubt a lot of Guard players would be happy with having to spend extra money buying a codex supplement on top of their codex and already expensive army.

Another question I'd like to ask is where would this stop? Surely each subfaction of every other army should be this distinct, right? Not all Chaos Legions are even remotely similar. Same could be said for each Craftworld, Forgeworld, Klan, Sect, or Dynasty. Should all of those be fluffed out as you say as well? Why would only Marines and Guard get to be so special?

Kanluwen wrote:
Dysartes wrote:IG? One reworked Regiment (to test the waters - I'd lean towards Tallarn, or a Mordian/Praetorian set, myself), plus the return of Rough Riders.

God no, keep Rough Riders with that Death Korps trash.


Exactly why are you trying to insult the Kreig players on this forum? You just trolling or is something legitimately bugging you about them?

Kanluwen wrote:
Tycho wrote:
Make the models mean something. They don't look like they deserve a 5+ armor save currently.
Cadians and Vostroyans? They look too heavily armored!


So ... wouldn't this be the perfect reason to give them new models? To address that issue? I get wanting rules to differentiate them, but the current line looks kind of silly proportionally. They're all over the place. You wouldn't want that addressed at the same time as making them "look like they deserve that armor save"?

I don't want the range touched until they're willing to commit to actually redesigning the army from the ground up. Any model redesign needs to factor that in.

And right now? They've shown over the years that they have zero interest when it comes to changing the Guard to be more reflective of its lore.

The Tempestus was a good step in the right direction, differentiating the previous fluff of the "Stormtrooper Regiments" into something more uniquely suitable to the Imperium.


Kanluwen wrote:

Just because it's your little soapbox, Kan, doesn't mean anyone else has to accept your theory of how things should be.

That's fine and dandy. But my theory actually makes the army interesting rather than "Here's my <insert regiment of the week>!" based off whatever cheap third party trash someone picked up that week.


You seem incredibly salty about all of this, and throwing shade at a lot of people, and I'm not entirely sure why? Something's gotta be bugging you; help me out here.
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Aspect Warriors.

The Avatar.

Phoenix Lords.

New Vypr.

   
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Right behind you.

Arcanis161 wrote:

Most of what you're asking for is the ruleset from 2nd/3rd ed. I have the 3rd ed Guard codex and, while I like the rules they have in there, and some of the ideas you mentioned, I'm not sold on them working with the modern ruleset. Modern GW likes to pretend that they're simplifying the game, and what you're describing doesn't go with that.

Also, on the topic of modern GW, I'd expect modern GW to treat big alterations and differences between subfactions like what you're describing as warranting Codex Supplements a la Space Marines. Guard simply isn't (quite) as popular as Space Marines currently, and I doubt a lot of Guard players would be happy with having to spend extra money buying a codex supplement on top of their codex and already expensive army.

Another question I'd like to ask is where would this stop? Surely each subfaction of every other army should be this distinct, right? Not all Chaos Legions are even remotely similar. Same could be said for each Craftworld, Forgeworld, Klan, Sect, or Dynasty. Should all of those be fluffed out as you say as well? Why would only Marines and Guard get to be so special?

Real-talk:
Craftworlds, Septs, Dynasties, and Forge Worlds? They already have this setup, effectively.
Craftworlds can take Dire Avengers, Rangers, or Guardians.
Septs can do Breachers, Strike Teams, or Kroot.
Dynasties have Warriors or Immortals, both of which are fairly different units.
Forge Worlds have the 'quadfecta' in the form of Breachers, Destroyers, Rangers, and Vanguard.

Kanluwen wrote:
Dysartes wrote:IG? One reworked Regiment (to test the waters - I'd lean towards Tallarn, or a Mordian/Praetorian set, myself), plus the return of Rough Riders.

God no, keep Rough Riders with that Death Korps trash.


Exactly why are you trying to insult the Kreig players on this forum? You just trolling or is something legitimately bugging you about them?

They're a specific subfaction, not the entirety of the army. We finally ditched the nonsense that was Rough Riders. Keep it in DKoK.

Additionally? Too many people like to treat the Krieg method of warfare as the Guard method of warfare.

You seem incredibly salty about all of this, and throwing shade at a lot of people, and I'm not entirely sure why? Something's gotta be bugging you; help me out here.


You want to understand why?
It all circles back to the Cruddace-led book. That book was garbage, in my personal opinion. It removed almost all of the flavor from the Guard overnight and resulted in me having to spend a month rearming Sergeants and Officers because the 'vision' with his name on it has no lasguns for the officers or NCOs. Despite art showing them. Despite lore showing them.
Then there was the whole Leafblower styled lists, etc etc etc. Forge World continually did a better job with Guard at the time than GW did, simply by dint of them not copy/pasting the codex in.

So yeah. I'm incredibly salty about Guard, the first army I played for 40k. I've seen them change Cadians from the Eye of Terror Codex(arguably the best Cadian list to date) to the blandness they are now.
The army is not what it was back in the day. It hasn't been for three editions now. If we're lucky? GW will fluff it as Guilliman reorganizing the Imperial Army model and we'll see the 'Regiments' present as specialist units. Because that's what really needs to happen. People can argue with me all they want, but the army has nothing unique or interesting to it anymore.
Want to run a gunline? GSC, Tau, AdMech, Necrons, or Marines do it better.
Hordes? Death Guard, GSC, Necrons, CSM, etc can do it better.
Big vehicles? Knights!

Anyways, fixing Guard in a meaningful way? Probably not going to happen. Not unless someone who actually plays them gets onto the design team.
   
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Simply put, Eldar and Dark Eldar. They are both in desperate need of some love.

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Every failcast kit. Once that's done, you could practically pin the tail on the donkey for every non-marine-based faction and one would be almost as good as the other, except for GSC and Sisters.
   
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As much as I love my faction, I would like for tau to get fleshed out with more awesome plastic xenos auxiliaries. Would be cool.. I know some people who would love kroot things and vespids with their mecha mechs..

Other than that... All of the CWE/DE failcast and missing units. All of it.....

Phoenix Lords, Apsects and exarchs as well as some sort of exodite/ wraithbeats unit or drones or something.. A warp spider and Shining spear lord is a given. Could easily do an autarch jetbike multipart kit to be either a PL or autarch..

I would be happy if they just bought the designs of #totalynotaspectwarriors from Artel tweaked them and put them in plastic. Those concepts are amazing.

The avatar - I thinkt they could just sell the plastic avatar from cauldron of blood separatly and call it a day.. Its miles betetr then the metal avatar but nothing when compared to the FW avatar. Would be interesting if FW avatar was a "greater avatar of khor- ermm khaine"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 00:00:02


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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Right behind you.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Simply put, Eldar and Dark Eldar. They are both in desperate need of some love.

Eldar or Dark Eldar more?

I'm genuinely, as a neutral observer, of the opinion that Eldar need it more than Dark Eldar...but I'd build some redundancy and crossover in to the release by also releasing a Corsairs or Ynnari faction book that could be tied to both.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Simply put, Eldar and Dark Eldar. They are both in desperate need of some love.

Eldar or Dark Eldar more?

I'm genuinely, as a neutral observer, of the opinion that Eldar need it more than Dark Eldar...but I'd build some redundancy and crossover in to the release by also releasing a Corsairs or Ynnari faction book that could be tied to both.


DE need more new units/lost units to be returned (HQs) and a rules tweak.

Eldar just need all the failcast gone and there is a lot of it..

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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Tycho wrote:
I'm in the current boyz are fine camp. Orks as a race of "obvious non humans" age pretty gracefully. compared to say Imperial Guard so look less dated, the current box has lots of options for custom building etc that there is a very real concern would be lost in a new kit. also a new kit would be more expensive. Orks need holes plugged and finecast replaced, not perfectly servicable plastic kits replaced with something thats more of a side grade


That makes sense. SO you would be looking at, not necessarily a full over-haul, but updating to get rid of Finecast, and filling holes? What do you think they're missing?

Well Orks have some obvious things-
Warboss in Mega-armor
Big Mek with KFF NOT in mega-armor
plastic weirdboy (forgot he wasn't, even though that's a great model)
plastic tankbustas
plastic kommandos
plastic deffkoptas with options for big shootas, rokkits, killsaws and any other weapon options that were written down but never existed.

But realistically, they don't need a necron sized release. Most of that could happen with the codex in a single weekend.

Personal desires:
Cyboar riders.
Stormboyz as a box of 10 for a reasonable price. The current 5 ork box makes me sad.
A 3 pack for kannons/big guns/mek guns. 1 'mek gun' for $50 is just messed up, and some things (like basic kannons and lobbas) are just missing. Snakebites still exist, not everything needs to be zappy.
Warboss not in mega-armor with weapon options and rules that let him survive for more than five seconds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 00:04:36


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:


New Vypr.


Imagine if the Vyper was a chassis that other armies use as a light transport but for some reason CWE have never figured it out...
A vyper transport variant would be a game changer.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Eldar or Dark Eldar more?

I'm genuinely, as a neutral observer, of the opinion that Eldar need it more than Dark Eldar...but I'd build some redundancy and crossover in to the release by also releasing a Corsairs or Ynnari faction book that could be tied to both.


Model wise probably Eldar.

Rules wise DE are currently hurting pretty badly. And the aura nerf (which I am in favour of) has basically rendered the Archon mostly useless unless there are some things that we're not seeing from the Codex, which is also likely. The problem is he is our only HQ for Kabals and he doesn't do anything now really if he can't buff Ravagers and the like. The long and short of it is that we simply have no options.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in it
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UK

Voss wrote:


Eldar, eldar, eldar. They have most gaping holes in the model line, in the story and the most rules/points problems. Bar nothing.


This.

Harlequins are actually mostly fine, though it would be nice to have a few new units added to their book. This doesn't even need to be totally unique stuff, it would be fine to add some kind of battle-brother rule that allowed them to take certain units in a harlequin force. Harlequin wraithlord would be cool (they used to have them, a long time ago).

Craftworlds though. I can guarantee that most of the craftworlds model lineup is older than some/most of the people commenting on this forum.

Craftworld Eldar need a complete rewrite from the ground up. Primaris/marines have stolen pretty much every single unique trait they had, and with the changes to 9th Eldar basically have nothing working for them. 10 points for a T3 1W body, firing a 12" peashooter, and the Aspects are worse.

The reason why alaitoc flyer spam was such a scourge in 8th, is because Eldar had such limited options when it came to fielding a list that was actually competitive. You just have to look at the joke the Wraithknight is, compared to Imperial options for the same points.

New codex needs to be a complete rewrite for basically every unit. And new models for them too.

It won't happen, what -will- happen is maybe one or two token resculpts like the banshees, and a lazy codex that leaves one or two overpowered units and the rest brokenly bad. Same as 8th (and 7th...probably further back than that).

Edit: Also take everything I said above, and repeat it for Dark Eldar. They didn't have as much of their unique stuff stolen by marines, but instead they were left with their unique features either not working or being massively overcosted.

Eldar should be fragile, sure. But they should be strong and fragile. They're glass cannon armies, that require finesse. One mistake and you lose units. Problem with them at the moment, is they're expensive and fragile and yet STILL WEAKER than marines.



Tycho wrote:
Make the models mean something. They don't look like they deserve a 5+ armor save currently.
Cadians and Vostroyans? They look too heavily armored!


So ... wouldn't this be the perfect reason to give them new models? To address that issue? I get wanting rules to differentiate them, but the current line looks kind of silly proportionally. They're all over the place. You wouldn't want that addressed at the same time as making them "look like they deserve that armor save"?



It seems that you're wanting to have infantry models for Cadians, and vostroyans, and catachan, etc? This... really shouldn't ever happen, at least not while a lot of other armies are in need of stuff.

This would be like GW releasing 6 different guardian squad box sets, one for Ulthwe and one for Iyanden and... etc. It's just not gonna happen, there won't be enough profit in it anyway.

Throwing out an upgrade sprue set on forgeworld? Sure. But then they used to do that, and I guess it didn't sell cos I think it got discontinued.

One new infantry box set, with a decent resculpt, yes. Sure. But not one per sub-faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 00:07:46


The
Webway
- An Eldar Tactica, as well as a work-in-progress.  
   
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Niiru wrote:
Voss wrote:


Eldar, eldar, eldar. They have most gaping holes in the model line, in the story and the most rules/points problems. Bar nothing.


This.

Harlequins are actually mostly fine, though it would be nice to have a few new units added to their book. This doesn't even need to be totally unique stuff, it would be fine to add some kind of battle-brother rule that allowed them to take certain units in a harlequin force. Harlequin wraithlord would be cool (they used to have them, a long time ago).

Craftworlds though. I can guarantee that most of the craftworlds model lineup is older than some/most of the people commenting on this forum.

Craftworld Eldar need a complete rewrite from the ground up. Primaris/marines have stolen pretty much every single unique trait they had, and with the changes to 9th Eldar basically have nothing working for them. 10 points for a T3 1W body, firing a 12" peashooter, and the Aspects are worse.

The reason why alaitoc flyer spam was such a scourge in 8th, is because Eldar had such limited options when it came to fielding a list that was actually competitive. You just have to look at the joke the Wraithknight is, compared to Imperial options for the same points.

New codex needs to be a complete rewrite for basically every unit. And new models for them too.

It won't happen, what -will- happen is maybe one or two token resculpts like the banshees, and a lazy codex that leaves one or two overpowered units and the rest brokenly bad. Same as 8th (and 7th...probably further back than that).


Well, I'm not so sure about that last bit. The necron overhaul is huge (it seemed big back in July, and that its model line-up is still growing is mindboggling). And they're getting needed rules changes (even if they aren't perfect). And the general weapons overhaul is huge- and necrons are definitely getting a taste of that on their own gear. (It sucks that eldar have to wait for a lot of their specially named weapons, but I can't see those weapons not changing)

The factory upgrade is done, so GW actually have the space and time to do an overhaul, and hopefully do it properly. Things might not be on the optimal timetable (especially with real-world stuff), but they're absolutely in a position to do more than a lazy codex and token resculpts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 00:13:36


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Eldar have long been powerful (more often then not while I've been playing)0 but at the same time they've ALWAYS been powerful as "gimmick lists" and if I played eldar that'd kiiinda annoy me TBH. they need a new codex that sits back and looks at the army and how it works together and how the various parts of it interlock.
Marines are powerful right now in large part because they have that

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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The heavy SPA that was dropped when IG when from 5th to 6th.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Arcanis161 wrote:

Most of what you're asking for is the ruleset from 2nd/3rd ed. I have the 3rd ed Guard codex and, while I like the rules they have in there, and some of the ideas you mentioned, I'm not sold on them working with the modern ruleset. Modern GW likes to pretend that they're simplifying the game, and what you're describing doesn't go with that.

Also, on the topic of modern GW, I'd expect modern GW to treat big alterations and differences between subfactions like what you're describing as warranting Codex Supplements a la Space Marines. Guard simply isn't (quite) as popular as Space Marines currently, and I doubt a lot of Guard players would be happy with having to spend extra money buying a codex supplement on top of their codex and already expensive army.

Another question I'd like to ask is where would this stop? Surely each subfaction of every other army should be this distinct, right? Not all Chaos Legions are even remotely similar. Same could be said for each Craftworld, Forgeworld, Klan, Sect, or Dynasty. Should all of those be fluffed out as you say as well? Why would only Marines and Guard get to be so special?

Real-talk:
Craftworlds, Septs, Dynasties, and Forge Worlds? They already have this setup, effectively.
Craftworlds can take Dire Avengers, Rangers, or Guardians.
Septs can do Breachers, Strike Teams, or Kroot.
Dynasties have Warriors or Immortals, both of which are fairly different units.
Forge Worlds have the 'quadfecta' in the form of Breachers, Destroyers, Rangers, and Vanguard.

I think we're talking a bit perpendicularly.

If you're talking about adding troop choices, I don't understand why they put veterans into the Elites slot. I don't feel it belongs there.

I was more referring to the special units, unit requirements and special detachments based on chosen Doctrine (Catachan, Cadia, etc.). For the latter, one I'm not sure if any subfaction belonging to any faction will have that yet. For the former two, it seems that GW has the mentality that if a subfaction has enough special units or special rules/requirements, then that subfaction is treated with a Supplement rather than making it a part of the main Codex. See all of the Founding Space Marine Chapters.

I get where you're coming from with it (see my response below), but I doubt GW will do anything about it.



Kanluwen wrote:
Dysartes wrote:IG? One reworked Regiment (to test the waters - I'd lean towards Tallarn, or a Mordian/Praetorian set, myself), plus the return of Rough Riders.

God no, keep Rough Riders with that Death Korps trash.


Exactly why are you trying to insult the Kreig players on this forum? You just trolling or is something legitimately bugging you about them?

They're a specific subfaction, not the entirety of the army. We finally ditched the nonsense that was Rough Riders. Keep it in DKoK.

Additionally? Too many people like to treat the Krieg method of warfare as the Guard method of warfare.


I like Rough Riders, but I'd still say that they were definitely the silliest and least fitting unit in the Guard.

Granted, I don't know the entire history of the Guard faction in terms of the game, but I think the whole Kreig thing stems from there being a not-so underlying callousness to the Guard. I have the 3rd ed Codex from before the plastic Cadians, and even that mentions regiments being raised and then used until there's barely a company left, specialists for one environment being sent to an unfitting environment without proper gear, and of course the millions of casualties per day. Kreig just so happens to be this callousness to the nth degree, so I think that's just what people glom onto.

I for one am of the mind that there is plenty of competence in the Guard leadership despite these things (otherwise the Imperium would have fallen long ago). I always felt that the millions of casualties per day wasn't completely due to poor leadership, but rather occurring due to the horrific enemies the Guard had to face, and that the horrific casualties were in spite of competent leadership.



You seem incredibly salty about all of this, and throwing shade at a lot of people, and I'm not entirely sure why? Something's gotta be bugging you; help me out here.


You want to understand why?
It all circles back to the Cruddace-led book. That book was garbage, in my personal opinion. It removed almost all of the flavor from the Guard overnight and resulted in me having to spend a month rearming Sergeants and Officers because the 'vision' with his name on it has no lasguns for the officers or NCOs. Despite art showing them. Despite lore showing them.
Then there was the whole Leafblower styled lists, etc etc etc. Forge World continually did a better job with Guard at the time than GW did, simply by dint of them not copy/pasting the codex in.

So yeah. I'm incredibly salty about Guard, the first army I played for 40k. I've seen them change Cadians from the Eye of Terror Codex(arguably the best Cadian list to date) to the blandness they are now.
The army is not what it was back in the day. It hasn't been for three editions now.


That's fair. I never even got to play around with platoons, which were another big part of the Guard back then. Maybe once things open back up, I'll try to get a game in with someone I know who has wanted to play 3rd ed for awhile.

I'll also agree that you have to work harder to make a fluffy custom regiment/army. The custom doctrines help somewhat, but not to the extent of the system from 2nd and 3rd ed.

If we're lucky? GW will fluff it as Guilliman reorganizing the Imperial Army model and we'll see the 'Regiments' present as specialist units.


While I hope for a couple of multi-kit options that allow people to build the classic Guard regiments and even make new ones, this is probably the more likely scenario.
   
 
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