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 generalchaos34 wrote:

SecondTime wrote:
I think impulsor got nerfed down to 5++.

I dont remember....BUT they seem to have forgotten to fix that on the App!

So they have! App indeed lists it as a 4++ save for the dome.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people are saying the impulsor is dead mostly because it's not criminally under costed, it's still a solid platform to get primaris marines from point a to point b

I've maintained transporting in and of itself is a generally bad idea. You're giving up X turns of opportunity from the transported unit in addition to paying points for the transport. Say you're making a Bladeguard Bomb. 3 Vets, the Cap, LT, and Ancient. You're paying 120 points +/- for the Impulsor, and you're also "paying" 77 points per turn you're transporting the Bladeguard bomb because they can't assault when they jump out so they're not doing anything you paid to have them for.

You absolutely can assault the turn you get out, provided the Impulsor hasn't moved yet when you do. Also, you're hardly losing anything when the transported units don't have much, if any, shooting. You're gaining movement and therefore board control by using a transport. As an added bonus, once your guys jump out, if the transport's still alive it can charge an enemy shooting unit to tie it up for a turn as well.

Mobility and board control are very important in 9th. Relatively cheap transports are very, very good especially for close combat units or very valuable units you want to protect from shooting for a turn.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people are saying the impulsor is dead mostly because it's not criminally under costed, it's still a solid platform to get primaris marines from point a to point b

I've maintained transporting in and of itself is a generally bad idea. You're giving up X turns of opportunity from the transported unit in addition to paying points for the transport. Say you're making a Bladeguard Bomb. 3 Vets, the Cap, LT, and Ancient. You're paying 120 points +/- for the Impulsor, and you're also "paying" 77 points per turn you're transporting the Bladeguard bomb because they can't assault when they jump out so they're not doing anything you paid to have them for.

As opposed to the extra turn(s) they're walking the same distance and getting shot up while still doing nothing? That makes zero sense.

 Stux wrote:
They can assault the turn they get out provided they get out before the Impulsor moves. So just like a normal transport. Which might not be super exciting, but you still have much more protection than not having the transport, and you dont sacrifice any mobility compared to not having it.

If they’re in range by getting out before it moves, they didn’t need to be in it and miss the last turn.

Breton wrote:

 Stux wrote:
They can assault the turn they get out provided they get out before the Impulsor moves. So just like a normal transport. Which might not be super exciting, but you still have much more protection than not having the transport, and you dont sacrifice any mobility compared to not having it.

If they’re in range by getting out before it moves, they didn’t need to be in it and miss the last turn.

There are plenty of reasons why your opponent may have come closer to the transport on their turn. Claim objectives, getting into range of short range weapons, trying to charge just to name a few.

Breton wrote:

 Stux wrote:
They can assault the turn they get out provided they get out before the Impulsor moves. So just like a normal transport. Which might not be super exciting, but you still have much more protection than not having the transport, and you dont sacrifice any mobility compared to not having it.

If they’re in range by getting out before it moves, they didn’t need to be in it and miss the last turn.

You aren't making any sense. A unit of Bladeguard walking is a full 8" (per turn) behind a unit of Bladeguard in an Impulsor (moves 14" rather than 6", plus disembark range). And the walking unit was exposed to be fired upon, and still weren't doing anything of note.
Jumping out on turn 2 means they can cover 14" +1d6 advance (turn 1)+ 3" disembark+6" move + charge. 24-29" past the edge of the deployment zone, plus a potential charge
A walking unit is 6+1d6 advance turn one, plus 6" move turn two. 13-18" into the table at most, 11" less than the mounted unit, and basically relying on the kindness of the enemy to be in charge range.

It does not matter that the mounted unit didn't accomplish anything by 'missing' the last turn.
Even shooting units gain a lot of ground in one turn by mounting up in an Impulsor.

I know people like to argue that maneuver is pointless in 40k, but it isn't that pointless. A single turn in a vehicle is nearly a full foot into the table, and means actually being in range of the enemy.

100% agree with Voss, exactly what I had in mind. Excellent rebuttals to Breton have already been given, so no need to say more really!

Voss wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Stux wrote:
They can assault the turn they get out provided they get out before the Impulsor moves. So just like a normal transport. Which might not be super exciting, but you still have much more protection than not having the transport, and you dont sacrifice any mobility compared to not having it.

If they’re in range by getting out before it moves, they didn’t need to be in it and miss the last turn.

You aren't making any sense. A unit of Bladeguard walking is a full 8" (per turn) behind a unit of Bladeguard in an Impulsor (moves 14" rather than 6", plus disembark range). And the walking unit was exposed to be fired upon, and still weren't doing anything of note.
Jumping out on turn 2 means they can cover 14" +1d6 advance (turn 1)+ 3" disembark+6" move + charge. 24-29" past the edge of the deployment zone, plus a potential charge
A walking unit is 6+1d6 advance turn one, plus 6" move turn two. 13-18" into the table at most, 11" less than the mounted unit, and basically relying on the kindness of the enemy to be in charge range.

Or you could just deploy close enough to the center mosh pit to do the work. If you're using the Impulsor to protect that unit, AND that unit is so key it must be protected - instead of letting your opponent decide if it's a distraction carnifex and the rest of your army is going to beat them or if they're going after something else and let them beat him - it's getting popped turn 1, and you lost 1 of the models anyway. 6 models, 1 in 6 chance... 1 dead.

It does not matter that the mounted unit didn't accomplish anything by 'missing' the last turn.
Even shooting units gain a lot of ground in one turn by mounting up in an Impulsor.

I know people like to argue that maneuver is pointless in 40k, but it isn't that pointless. A single turn in a vehicle is nearly a full foot into the table, and means actually being in range of the enemy.

And now do it turn 3. You get in, miss turn 3, move and advance on turn 4, miss turn 4. I'm not arguing maneuver is pointless - Remember I'm the guy who pointed out Speeders and Attack Bikes were more interesting than Eradicators because of their movement speed - I'm arguing the added cost of missed turns from transporting makes transports much less appealing.

Your example is the best case scenario for transports. Enter during deployment/pregame. The turn it cost you didn't exist.

I only "like" (so to speak) three "transports" (one of them is an entire class) right now and they all have a special rule to offset. I like Drop Pods. (they're not really a transport, they're Add Deep Strike to 10 infantry that does have it, and we'll throw in a fairly sturdy model with a giant foot print for free) 4-6 Tac Squads in 4-6 Drop Pods landing Turn 1 Round 1 on 4-6 objectives will be a real pain in the rear. The Chimera gives you 6 lasguns that'll fire if a unit is embarked. Open Topped basically lets you add more guns to a transport who never have to get out if you can help it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to add, for the same 500 or so points of Bladeguard Vets, Cap, LT, Ancient and Impulsor you'll get 14 or so TH/SS Vanguard Vets.