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In a world where Loyalists get two books each I understand hoping for a lot.

Especially for Chaos players after having our pathetic 2.0 worked on at the same time as the off the rails Loyalist Fandex in 8th.

This is our first look at if that garbage divide continues or not so the book being delayed combined with the standard trickle of info is probably having an adverse affect on some.

 Castozor wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
They're going to be extremely resilient to the likes of plasma though

I see it as an indirect if small buff to enemy plasma actually. Since it now does not matter to overcharge or not against our infantry they can always choose the safe option and never fry their models.

It's not a buff to plasma, it's that the overcharge mode got nerfed harder than the non-overcharge.

Safe plasma is still less lethal with this change than it was before, needing to inflict two wounds per kill rather than a failed DR per kill.

Oaka is spot on- Plague Marines are becoming significantly more durable than they were; the perception of a nerf is coming from a comparison to a statline that never actually existed.

It foretells bad news for Poxwalkers and Plaguebearers. They're both W1 models, meaning -1 Damage does nothing for them.

I'd need to see it play out.
It feels weird to me that you are taking D2 weapons and basically making them awful versus Death Guard (Nurgle Deamons to follow?). In the round, points values etc, that may not be that warping - any more than say Harlequins all having a 4++ is warping - but... it feels odd.

It does seem to encourage "tool yourself up with cheap melta".

It certainly saves dice on a 5+++, and is arguably less luck based for flat damage weapons.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It foretells bad news for Poxwalkers and Plaguebearers. They're both W1 models, meaning -1 Damage does nothing for them.

Unless they're not, or they're getting unique old DR equivalent rules

Dudeface wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
It foretells bad news for Poxwalkers and Plaguebearers. They're both W1 models, meaning -1 Damage does nothing for them.

Unless they're not, or they're getting unique old DR equivalent rules

Yeah. I won't say "GW RUINED NURGLE DAEMONS!" off a bad sign, but if they just make it a universal change...

I will not be a happy camper.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Yeah. I won't say "GW RUINED NURGLE DAEMONS!" off a bad sign, but if they just make it a universal change...

I will not be a happy camper.

What if they get 2 wounds?

Tyel wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Yeah. I won't say "GW RUINED NURGLE DAEMONS!" off a bad sign, but if they just make it a universal change...

I will not be a happy camper.

What if they get 2 wounds?

I'll be a moderately miffed camper, because DR is still nerfed pretty hard. But W2 Plaguebearers would be pretty nice-depending on point cost, of course.

What if there's lots of other ways to gain 5+ FnP? Then the -1dmg becomes amazing.

 Yarium wrote:
What if there's lots of other ways to gain 5+ FnP? Then the -1dmg becomes amazing.

That would be good, but realistically, Deathguard aren't Loyalist Marines. And Nurgle Daemons are even further from them. So I don't have high hopes.

This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Maybe you should wait for the whole book and then assess.

For all we know Plague Surgeons could give out a 6+++ bubble now. Poxwalkers could operate in an entirely different manner.

Lulz if Plaguebearers and Poxwalkers DO NOT actually gain DR but a generic 5+ FNP instead.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

Well given some of the other reactions it could be all 3.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

All 3. Played DG for years and DR is part of the reason i was able to even hold on in some of those games. This takes an A tier list and drops it so down bellow in anything competitive or non competitve their not worth considering. The only Infantry this doesn't "nerf" is Plague Marines and even then it REALLY REALLY does. This new change makes RapidFire soo unbelievably good against DG that if you have 1 unit with 1 rapidfire weapon their damage potential against this new Trait goes up 33%. Now make 1 whole unit have rapidfire the math is something like an increase of 74% damage potential of the unit size is 5 models. THAT IS AN INSANE number. Not to mention this new "ARMY TRAIT" (keyword is army) makes Plaguebringers/Poxwalkers/Nurglings (3 key units in almost any army) more useless then fething cultists. SO What does this mean logcially? Every DG army is pretty much just gonna run platforms of Plaguemarines with 1-2 heavy weapons(since we can't take obliterators) we'll probably be taking more terminators and since this new perk DESTROYS our vehicles making wounding them 33% easier, our Dreadnoughts are garbage might as well just run more daemon engines cuz they hit on a 3+ now and can heal. So every competitve list will be oh look exactly what GW wanted MORE MARINES.

Rahdok wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

All 3. Played DG for years and DR is part of the reason i was able to even hold on in some of those games. This takes an A tier list and drops it so down bellow in anything competitive or non competitve their not worth considering. The only Infantry this doesn't "nerf" is Plague Marines and even then it REALLY REALLY does. This new change makes RapidFire soo unbelievably good against DG that if you have 1 unit with 1 rapidfire weapon their damage potential against this new Trait goes up 33%. Now make 1 whole unit have rapidfire the math is something like an increase of 74% damage potential of the unit size is 5 models. THAT IS AN INSANE number. Not to mention this new "ARMY TRAIT" (keyword is army) makes Plaguebringers/Poxwalkers/Nurglings (3 key units in almost any army) more useless then fething cultists. SO What does this mean logcially? Every DG army is pretty much just gonna run platforms of Plaguemarines with 1-2 heavy weapons(since we can't take obliterators) we'll probably be taking more terminators and since this new perk DESTROYS our vehicles making wounding them 33% easier, our Dreadnoughts are garbage might as well just run more daemon engines cuz they hit on a 3+ now and can heal. So every competitve list will be oh look exactly what GW wanted MORE MARINES.

Use paragraphs.

Your plague marines take MORE bolter shots to kill now, not less.

Dudeface wrote:


Use paragraphs.

Your plague marines take MORE bolter shots to kill now, not less.

On account of getting an extra wound yes, DR itself however is heavily nerfed in just about every circumstance.

Dudeface wrote:

Rahdok wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

All 3. Played DG for years and DR is part of the reason i was able to even hold on in some of those games. This takes an A tier list and drops it so down bellow in anything competitive or non competitve their not worth considering. The only Infantry this doesn't "nerf" is Plague Marines and even then it REALLY REALLY does. This new change makes RapidFire soo unbelievably good against DG that if you have 1 unit with 1 rapidfire weapon their damage potential against this new Trait goes up 33%. Now make 1 whole unit have rapidfire the math is something like an increase of 74% damage potential of the unit size is 5 models. THAT IS AN INSANE number. Not to mention this new "ARMY TRAIT" (keyword is army) makes Plaguebringers/Poxwalkers/Nurglings (3 key units in almost any army) more useless then fething cultists. SO What does this mean logcially? Every DG army is pretty much just gonna run platforms of Plaguemarines with 1-2 heavy weapons(since we can't take obliterators) we'll probably be taking more terminators and since this new perk DESTROYS our vehicles making wounding them 33% easier, our Dreadnoughts are garbage might as well just run more daemon engines cuz they hit on a 3+ now and can heal. So every competitve list will be oh look exactly what GW wanted MORE MARINES.

Use paragraphs.

Your plague marines take MORE bolter shots to kill now, not less.

Yes, thats why anything RAPID FIRE...here i'll type it again...RAPID FIRE. Just destroys DG now. That -1 means gak to anything rapid fire. Also any anti-tank weaponry this literally just buffed it against our Daemon Engines and Armor. We are supposed to be tough thats why its called RESILIENCE, not paper umbrella.

Quite. The unique army bonus is less good, but the durability increase given to all marines is good.

This means that, relative to all marines, DG are less durable than they were before.

Yes the rule gets no bonus versus D1 weapons.

But your marines all got +1 W and they're all T5 as a baseline still.

This idea that small arms fire is now a hard counter to DG just exposes people as being frauds with no understanding of 40k. It's like the RP rules all over again. I love it.

And to be completely fair I do think overall this is a slightly weaker ability, but the army is getting several huge buffs to compensate and it's obviously a rule that plays better which is kind of paramount importance. Imagine throwing out 30 Triarch Praetorian or Plasma Inceptor attacks onto a 2W 5+ FNP unit. That gak would take you a couple of hours to resolve.

Rahdok wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Rahdok wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

All 3. Played DG for years and DR is part of the reason i was able to even hold on in some of those games. This takes an A tier list and drops it so down bellow in anything competitive or non competitve their not worth considering. The only Infantry this doesn't "nerf" is Plague Marines and even then it REALLY REALLY does. This new change makes RapidFire soo unbelievably good against DG that if you have 1 unit with 1 rapidfire weapon their damage potential against this new Trait goes up 33%. Now make 1 whole unit have rapidfire the math is something like an increase of 74% damage potential of the unit size is 5 models. THAT IS AN INSANE number. Not to mention this new "ARMY TRAIT" (keyword is army) makes Plaguebringers/Poxwalkers/Nurglings (3 key units in almost any army) more useless then fething cultists. SO What does this mean logcially? Every DG army is pretty much just gonna run platforms of Plaguemarines with 1-2 heavy weapons(since we can't take obliterators) we'll probably be taking more terminators and since this new perk DESTROYS our vehicles making wounding them 33% easier, our Dreadnoughts are garbage might as well just run more daemon engines cuz they hit on a 3+ now and can heal. So every competitve list will be oh look exactly what GW wanted MORE MARINES.

Use paragraphs.

Your plague marines take MORE bolter shots to kill now, not less.

Yes, thats why anything RAPID FIRE...here i'll type it again...RAPID FIRE. Just destroys DG now. That -1 means gak to anything rapid fire. Also any anti-tank weaponry this literally just buffed it against our Daemon Engines and Armor. We are supposed to be tough thats why its called RESILIENCE, not paper umbrella.

Compared to a 1w t3 5+ guardsman, how fething tough do you want to be?

Dudeface wrote:

Rahdok wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Rahdok wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Rahdok wrote:
This gak is an EMBARRASSING nerf holy gak. Not only doesn't this new useless piece of GARBAGE gak ASS DR not work against Mortal Wounds it UTTERLY makes Poxwalkers/Plaguebringers just utter garbage. So beyond useless that it's not even worth considering cultists as an option. THANKS GW you made all DG lists pure plaguemarine daemon engine lists which due to this new NERF makes all of our vehicles utter fething TRASH against anything rapid fire or heavy weapon ....ONLY way to make up for this utter bs non sense fething stupid nerf is to increase the entire army by 1 toughness EVERYTHING. WE are MEANT to be tough not fething PAPER. Jesus GW you fething mistakes.

Can't tell if sarcasm, parody, or legitimate anger.

Regardless, little excessive. Game of toy soldiers.

All 3. Played DG for years and DR is part of the reason i was able to even hold on in some of those games. This takes an A tier list and drops it so down bellow in anything competitive or non competitve their not worth considering. The only Infantry this doesn't "nerf" is Plague Marines and even then it REALLY REALLY does. This new change makes RapidFire soo unbelievably good against DG that if you have 1 unit with 1 rapidfire weapon their damage potential against this new Trait goes up 33%. Now make 1 whole unit have rapidfire the math is something like an increase of 74% damage potential of the unit size is 5 models. THAT IS AN INSANE number. Not to mention this new "ARMY TRAIT" (keyword is army) makes Plaguebringers/Poxwalkers/Nurglings (3 key units in almost any army) more useless then fething cultists. SO What does this mean logcially? Every DG army is pretty much just gonna run platforms of Plaguemarines with 1-2 heavy weapons(since we can't take obliterators) we'll probably be taking more terminators and since this new perk DESTROYS our vehicles making wounding them 33% easier, our Dreadnoughts are garbage might as well just run more daemon engines cuz they hit on a 3+ now and can heal. So every competitve list will be oh look exactly what GW wanted MORE MARINES.

Use paragraphs.

Your plague marines take MORE bolter shots to kill now, not less.

Yes, thats why anything RAPID FIRE...here i'll type it again...RAPID FIRE. Just destroys DG now. That -1 means gak to anything rapid fire. Also any anti-tank weaponry this literally just buffed it against our Daemon Engines and Armor. We are supposed to be tough thats why its called RESILIENCE, not paper umbrella.

Compared to a 1w t3 5+ guardsman, how fething tough do you want to be?

Wow....don't compare a Plague Marine to a GUARD the comparison to Guard would be a CULTIST which is also worse then a guardsman. A plague Marine would need to be compared to a...oo look at that A MARINE. Which on AVerage is WORSE then a Marine by a lot like A LOT A LOT.

Rahdok wrote:

Yes, thats why anything RAPID FIRE...here i'll type it again...RAPID FIRE. Just destroys DG now. That -1 means gak to anything rapid fire. Also any anti-tank weaponry this literally just buffed it against our Daemon Engines and Armor. We are supposed to be tough thats why its called RESILIENCE, not paper umbrella.

Guess what, youre still more resilient than any other army even with the new DR.
Other marines are T4 and instadie to a failed save from overcharged plasma,you don't.
Your vehicles have built-in invulns and more toughness than the other ones that do.

Stop sperging out and think for a second. The change is good.

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yes the rule gets no bonus versus D1 weapons.

But your marines all got +1 W and they're all T5 as a baseline still.

This idea that small arms fire is now a hard counter to DG just exposes people as being frauds with no understanding of 40k. It's like the RP rules all over again. I love it.

And to be completely fair I do think overall this is a slightly weaker ability, but the army is getting several huge buffs to compensate and it's obviously a rule that plays better which is kind of paramount importance. Imagine throwing out 30 Triarch Praetorian or Plasma Inceptor attacks onto a 2W 5+ FNP unit. That gak would take you a couple of hours to resolve.

Wow it's like you've never played a Death Guard list before? Do you know what this does to ANY of our other units besides a Plague Marine? IT DESTROYS THEM. Poxwalker/Plaguebringer/Nurgling (Units that are meant to be TOUGH) are now just garbage. Oh yay my T4/T3 1 wound model that moves 5 inches gets a -1 to wound them on a 2 wound + weapon ..YAY im only taking 1 wound YAYYYY....oh wait. And on Average compared to a typcal Marine We are WORSE OFF. Makes it worse if you add in a rapid fire weapon. Before we had a 1/3rd chance to ignore your 30 shots coming at us, now we just have to take it and die. That is literally 1/3rd worse or 33%. We are 33% worse against ANYTHING rapid fire.

Less durable to high volume single damage, sort of. Plague Marines at T5 2 wounds gain a 50% increase survivability with their codex drop.

T5, 2 Wound 5+++FNP is a profile that never existed. It was an assumption. Stop assuming that this was a rule you were getting. Fault may lie at GW's feet for the slow trickle of reveals, but it was never a statline that was shown.

T5, 1 wound 5+++ FNP vs 2 damage weapons gives them a low chance to survive the shot.

T5 2 wounds, -1 dmg min 1 vs 2 damage means it takes two overcharge plasma shots, compared to the previously efficient overcharging plasma against them.

Vehicles benefit too.

Rahdok wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yes the rule gets no bonus versus D1 weapons.

But your marines all got +1 W and they're all T5 as a baseline still.

This idea that small arms fire is now a hard counter to DG just exposes people as being frauds with no understanding of 40k. It's like the RP rules all over again. I love it.

And to be completely fair I do think overall this is a slightly weaker ability, but the army is getting several huge buffs to compensate and it's obviously a rule that plays better which is kind of paramount importance. Imagine throwing out 30 Triarch Praetorian or Plasma Inceptor attacks onto a 2W 5+ FNP unit. That gak would take you a couple of hours to resolve.

Wow it's like you've never played a Death Guard list before? Do you know what this does to ANY of our other units besides a Plague Marine? IT DESTROYS THEM. Poxwalker/Plaguebringer/Nurgling (Units that are meant to be TOUGH) are now just garbage. Oh yay my T4/T3 1 wound model that moves 5 inches gets a -1 to wound them on a 2 wound + weapon ..YAY im only taking 1 wound YAYYYY....oh wait. And on Average compared to a typcal Marine We are WORSE OFF. Makes it worse if you add in a rapid fire weapon. Before we had a 1/3rd chance to ignore your 30 shots coming at us, now we just have to take it and die. That is literally 1/3rd worse or 33%. We are 33% worse against ANYTHING rapid fire.

Why are you assuming that Poxwalkers and Plague Bearers won't change in some way?

Rahdok wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yes the rule gets no bonus versus D1 weapons.

But your marines all got +1 W and they're all T5 as a baseline still.

This idea that small arms fire is now a hard counter to DG just exposes people as being frauds with no understanding of 40k. It's like the RP rules all over again. I love it.

And to be completely fair I do think overall this is a slightly weaker ability, but the army is getting several huge buffs to compensate and it's obviously a rule that plays better which is kind of paramount importance. Imagine throwing out 30 Triarch Praetorian or Plasma Inceptor attacks onto a 2W 5+ FNP unit. That gak would take you a couple of hours to resolve.

Wow it's like you've never played a Death Guard list before? Do you know what this does to ANY of our other units besides a Plague Marine? IT DESTROYS THEM. Poxwalker/Plaguebringer/Nurgling (Units that are meant to be TOUGH) are now just garbage. Oh yay my T4/T3 1 wound model that moves 5 inches gets a -1 to wound them on a 2 wound + weapon ..YAY im only taking 1 wound YAYYYY....oh wait. And on Average compared to a typcal Marine We are WORSE OFF. Makes it worse if you add in a rapid fire weapon. Before we had a 1/3rd chance to ignore your 30 shots coming at us, now we just have to take it and die. That is literally 1/3rd worse or 33%. We are 33% worse against ANYTHING rapid fire.

You do realise the possibility of poxwalkers getting either a new rule or a 5+++ like before is still possible, right? You do realise that plaguebingers and nurglings aren't deathguard units, right?
Chill the feth down.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Rahdok wrote:

Yes, thats why anything RAPID FIRE...here i'll type it again...RAPID FIRE. Just destroys DG now. That -1 means gak to anything rapid fire. Also any anti-tank weaponry this literally just buffed it against our Daemon Engines and Armor. We are supposed to be tough thats why its called RESILIENCE, not paper umbrella.

Guess what, youre still more resilient than any other army even with the new DR.
Other marines are T4 and instadie to a failed save from overcharged plasma,you don't.
Your vehicles have built-in invulns and more toughness than the other ones that do.

Stop sperging out and think for a second. The change is good.

Oh that 5+ invuln that doesn't matter when the average ap of an anti tank weapon in warhammer is -2? Yep we're not 33% worse against them. GG. And...we also die to an overcharged plasma? 2 wound HELLBASTERS also die to them? WTF? This also DESTROYS ANYTHING not Plaguemarine - Nurglings/Plaguebringers/Poxwalkers t4/t3 models with a 5+/6+ save and 1 wound..ooohh yaay i have a army wide -1 to damage that damage 2 weapon is oh look at that damage 1 now YAY my 6+ save will save me!!!

Rahdok wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Yes the rule gets no bonus versus D1 weapons.

But your marines all got +1 W and they're all T5 as a baseline still.

This idea that small arms fire is now a hard counter to DG just exposes people as being frauds with no understanding of 40k. It's like the RP rules all over again. I love it.

And to be completely fair I do think overall this is a slightly weaker ability, but the army is getting several huge buffs to compensate and it's obviously a rule that plays better which is kind of paramount importance. Imagine throwing out 30 Triarch Praetorian or Plasma Inceptor attacks onto a 2W 5+ FNP unit. That gak would take you a couple of hours to resolve.

Wow it's like you've never played a Death Guard list before? Do you know what this does to ANY of our other units besides a Plague Marine? IT DESTROYS THEM. Poxwalker/Plaguebringer/Nurgling (Units that are meant to be TOUGH) are now just garbage. Oh yay my T4/T3 1 wound model that moves 5 inches gets a -1 to wound them on a 2 wound + weapon ..YAY im only taking 1 wound YAYYYY....oh wait. And on Average compared to a typcal Marine We are WORSE OFF. Makes it worse if you add in a rapid fire weapon. Before we had a 1/3rd chance to ignore your 30 shots coming at us, now we just have to take it and die. That is literally 1/3rd worse or 33%. We are 33% worse against ANYTHING rapid fire.

Except you have precisely 0 idea of how they're changing Poxwalkers, Plaguebearers or Nurglings in terms of their stats or resilience.

I expect plague surgeons will give a 6+ FNP.

So, expect this AND feel no pains lol.