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Part of the problem is it makes none-bike/jump melee infantry look woefully obsolete compared to the units that do get the extra 6+" of range for free.

I totally agree that the current implementation isn't exactly stellar, which is why I suggested a 4+d6" charge range.

Wyldhunt wrote:

Lord Damocles wrote:

alextroy wrote:IMHO the way to fix Random Charge distances and minimum charge distances is to move Charging to the Movement Phase. Then Charge distance can be your Move + d6 + Charge Modifiers, while Advance is your Move + d6 + Advance Modifiers.

Overwatch would still happen at the declaration of Charge like it does now. Change the Shooting rules so that units that Charge can shoot Assault Weapons and/or Pistol at units they charged (successful or unsuccessful) whether or not they are in Engagement Range.

It might take a little bit longer to get into Close Combat, but the variables go down and you get to ditch the entire Charge phase of the game including that second unit move. Points adjustments would need to be made to account for how much longer it takes to get into close combat.

I like the general shape of that idea. The biggest change (and possible problem) I see this causing is that it prevents the rest of my army from shooting at the thing I charged. So dark reapers and dire avengers can't soften up a target before I send in the howling banshees. Ditto devastators and tacticals that want to support their vanguard pals.

That's what prior turns are for. You don't get to to shoot the target the turn it is charged, but all the prior turns they are free game.

Someone mentioned what to do with Reinforcement chargers? I say, special rules. Some units deploy in a manner that makes a charge from Reinforcements make sense. Assault Marines landing on their opponents from on high or a Tyranid monster boring up beneath their feet get their rules adjusted to allow them to land within Engagement Range of the enemy and count as charging. Maybe add a roll to see if they "miss" their placement and land just outside of range if you don't want guaranteed charges for them. Most units will just have to get used to not charging the turn they arrived, like happened in most editions of the game.

Honestly the best compromise is something like half your movement rounded up +D6, and then add whatever modifiers as necessary.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly the best compromise is something like half your movement rounded up +D6, and then add whatever modifiers as necessary.

Even simpler than that, just doing like, 4 + d6 would let keep everything else in the game the same while also leaving (relatively) long charges as a possibility and eliminating the chance of failing embarassingly short charges. Whereas half the movement on my 16" movement jetbikes +d6" would guarantee that they'd make their charges out of deepstrike unless we added/adjusted additional rules.

It just feels weird to randomize charges by 1"-6", but this small change really would be an improvement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:

That's what prior turns are for. You don't get to to shoot the target the turn it is charged, but all the prior turns they are free game.

Hmm. That changes the value of units and the shape of armies in a pretty big way though, doesn't it? Coming from a mostly aeldari viewpoint, my craftworld melee units don't really hit hard enough to warrant giving up a squad of reapers/war walkers/whatever's shooting. So saying I can either shoot a unit or charge it with banshees means that my banshees suddenly have even fewer good targets than before. Some of my drukhari units do punch hard enough to make me consider only charging a unit on a given turn, but most of them don't hit hard enough to do the job alone. So suddenly my shooting elements stop supporting my melee elements, and I'm forced to double down on melee units if I want to have a chance of clearing a threat.

I don't really want my banshees and wyches nerfed. :(

Someone mentioned what to do with Reinforcement chargers? I say, special rules. Some units deploy in a manner that makes a charge from Reinforcements make sense. Assault Marines landing on their opponents from on high or a Tyranid monster boring up beneath their feet get their rules adjusted to allow them to land within Engagement Range of the enemy and count as charging. Maybe add a roll to see if they "miss" their placement and land just outside of range if you don't want guaranteed charges for them. Most units will just have to get used to not charging the turn they arrived, like happened in most editions of the game.

I thinkt hat someone was me. I'm potentially open to this, but which units do you feel are incapable of charging out of deepstrike? My swooping hawks don't love being in melee, but they're supposed to be faster and more agile than assault marines, so they're probably able to charge from DS, right? How about my shining spears that also fly, move faster than the hawks, and want to be in melee but can only deepstrike via the webway stratagem? What if they use strategic reserves instead? How about a webway gate fortification? Can terminators assault after teleporting? Surely mandrakes and scorpions (sneaky melee assassins) can charge out of DS. Maybe ripper swarms? But they'll basically just stand around doing nothing and then get instagibbed if they DS near the enemy and don't charge.

So which units don't make the cut, and how far from their targets do they have to land?

I'd like to see a new charge stat that had a fixed and random element.

I'd also like overwatch to change to being a negative effect on the charge movement as the attacker has to sacrifice speed for dodging.

You could then make fluffy adjustments to the move (eg terminators are slow but unstoppable and banshees are swift)

Over watch hits on normal bs, but rather then taking casualties, every X number of hits slows the unit by an inch (or 2)

Banshees would have the higher speed but units like terminators would have a higher number of hits needed to slow them (same for big unit of orks/nids)

Reducing charge distance for every X hits feels kind of odd though. It means that a meltagun is pretty bad at discouraging a charge, but my 4 shot lasblaster swooping hawks are nigh unchargeable. And Tau overwatch is a thing.

But then, I'm a grouch who thinks overwatch should be removed entirely (or at least made into a special ability for units that specialize in overwatching.)

Wyldhunt wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:

That's what prior turns are for. You don't get to to shoot the target the turn it is charged, but all the prior turns they are free game.

Hmm. That changes the value of units and the shape of armies in a pretty big way though, doesn't it? Coming from a mostly aeldari viewpoint, my craftworld melee units don't really hit hard enough to warrant giving up a squad of reapers/war walkers/whatever's shooting. So saying I can either shoot a unit or charge it with banshees means that my banshees suddenly have even fewer good targets than before. Some of my drukhari units do punch hard enough to make me consider only charging a unit on a given turn, but most of them don't hit hard enough to do the job alone. So suddenly my shooting elements stop supporting my melee elements, and I'm forced to double down on melee units if I want to have a chance of clearing a threat.

I don't really want my banshees and wyches nerfed. :(

Someone mentioned what to do with Reinforcement chargers? I say, special rules. Some units deploy in a manner that makes a charge from Reinforcements make sense. Assault Marines landing on their opponents from on high or a Tyranid monster boring up beneath their feet get their rules adjusted to allow them to land within Engagement Range of the enemy and count as charging. Maybe add a roll to see if they "miss" their placement and land just outside of range if you don't want guaranteed charges for them. Most units will just have to get used to not charging the turn they arrived, like happened in most editions of the game.

I thinkt hat someone was me. I'm potentially open to this, but which units do you feel are incapable of charging out of deepstrike? My swooping hawks don't love being in melee, but they're supposed to be faster and more agile than assault marines, so they're probably able to charge from DS, right? How about my shining spears that also fly, move faster than the hawks, and want to be in melee but can only deepstrike via the webway stratagem? What if they use strategic reserves instead? How about a webway gate fortification? Can terminators assault after teleporting? Surely mandrakes and scorpions (sneaky melee assassins) can charge out of DS. Maybe ripper swarms? But they'll basically just stand around doing nothing and then get instagibbed if they DS near the enemy and don't charge.

So which units don't make the cut, and how far from their targets do they have to land?

Personally, most units would not make the cut. The only units that would are those known for charging out of nowhere.

Terminators are not famous for teleporting in and charging. They are famous for teleporting in and opening loose with their ranged weapons. Neither are Swooping Hawks or even Shining Spears famous for appearing and charging. SH are famous for dropping in with a grenade pack and a bunch of lasblaster shots. Shining Spears are famous for moving vast distances and charging, not webway assaults into melee.

Now units like mandrakes and scorpions are famous for being sneaky, so I'd expect their rule to allow them a sneaky charge, like "this unit can be deployed within X inches of a board edge or Y inches of a Dense or Obsuring terrain piece and may be setup within Engagement Range of an enemy unit. If setup with in Engagement Range, the unit is considered to have charged."

Honestly I can deal with the random charging because 2d6 is a bell curve where most results fall into the average range and only the occasional charge is exceptionally good or bad. What I really dislike is the all-or-nothing mechanism. Either the unit goes 100% of its charge distance or none of it, which makes no sense. Units that fail a charge should still move. I am happy with either fixed or random charges as long as that element is addressed.

Though the happy medium of d6+4" someone else mentioned sounds nice.

No, it was poor design for both Fantasy and 40K.

 alextroy wrote:

Personally, most units would not make the cut. The only units that would are those known for charging out of nowhere.

Terminators are not famous for teleporting in and charging. They are famous for teleporting in and opening loose with their ranged weapons. Neither are Swooping Hawks or even Shining Spears famous for appearing and charging. SH are famous for dropping in with a grenade pack and a bunch of lasblaster shots. Shining Spears are famous for moving vast distances and charging, not webway assaults into melee.

Now units like mandrakes and scorpions are famous for being sneaky, so I'd expect their rule to allow them a sneaky charge, like "this unit can be deployed within X inches of a board edge or Y inches of a Dense or Obsuring terrain piece and may be setup within Engagement Range of an enemy unit. If setup with in Engagement Range, the unit is considered to have charged."

I could get behind some version of that. Although I still feel that having your melee units deny shooting against an enemy target is a pretty huge change that would risk making melee units undesirable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Honestly I can deal with the random charging because 2d6 is a bell curve where most results fall into the average range and only the occasional charge is exceptionally good or bad. What I really dislike is the all-or-nothing mechanism. Either the unit goes 100% of its charge distance or none of it, which makes no sense. Units that fail a charge should still move. I am happy with either fixed or random charges as long as that element is addressed.

Though the happy medium of d6+4" someone else mentioned sounds nice.

The thing about moving even if you fail the charge is that it potentially screws over the player who failed the charge even more. Say you've footslogged a melee unit across the table or spent CP to deepstrike it or whatever. Failing the charge already means that the unit isn't doing damage this turn, and it means that said unit is likely to get shot at or countercharged on your opponent's turn. So if you're forced to move your charge distance after failing a charge, you might also be forced to move into range/charge range of even more enemy units, and you might be forced to leave cover to do it.

Although making it optional is another story. This might be less of a big deal now that melee is a bit better than it was last edition.

I think that failing a charge should be disadvantageous. But I agree that there would need to be balance changes associated with units still moving on a failed charge (though I'm not sure I'd want it to be the whole distance). What shape those changes could be is a discussion for another thread I'd think.

Back in the day in WFB, units charged twice their Move. If they failed their charge, they moved just their Move straight towards the target unit. Of course, this was back in the day before pre-measuring was allowed.

Once they switched to pre-measuring, Charges became Move + 2d6. Failed charges moved the higher of the two dice rolled. Today in 40K, you move your Move in the Movement Phase and don't move for failed charges at all. The downside is you moved into position to make a charge and may find yourself in a bad spot (especially if it was a short charge you failed).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think that failing a charge should be disadvantageous.

Sincere, non-confrontational question: Why do you think failing a charge should have additional disadvantages? Failing a charge already means that you're likely within the threat range of enemy units. If the unit that failed to charge was a unit with expensive melee abilities, then it also means that part of your army has failed to contribute damage this turn. And given how melee units are often delivered, there's a good chance that the melee unit was off the table on turn 1 and thus wasn't contributing to your damage output.

So you can understand why I'm surprised that you feel failing a charge should be more of a disadvantage.

There is a strong realism/immersion aspect there, but also because I strongly feel that declaring a charge should have a penalty. It shouldn't be something a player just does because they might as well and there's no downside for trying. I also think that penalty shouldn't be overwatch, but that's another topic.

Perhaps the missing piece here is that I would not support such a change just being made to the game as it is without any other changes. The ease with which units can retreat, for example, I think is ridiculous. It should trigger a free 'melee overwatch' at the least.

Roll for charge distance, you make it you fight first as normal, you fail, you fight in normal sequence, and gain no bonuses that you would normally have gained for a successful charge. (maybe with snake eyes making you fight last instead, or some other penalty)

So always succeed, but with varying degrees of usefulness. One possibility at least.

Oooo I really like that. Would obviously need a max distance lower than 12" though. Leads me to thinking about how deep strike really loses a lot for not having the old 'be as close as you want, but scatter might screw you if you do' mechanic.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Random charges aren't fundamentally the problem; I never had an issue with how it was implemented in 6th-7th 40k or in WHFB. The problem in 8th/9th is that damage gets inflated so much faster than defensive stats, so now failing a charge is pretty much a guaranteed death sentence for the unit. Couple that with ever-inflating move distances/charge bonuses and the shrunken table, and movement is becoming vastly less interactive.

In short: The problem isn't that charge distance is random, it's that the game is too killy and movement has to be incredibly fast to let melee armies exist in the game at all.

And yet, melee has been consistently shown to be vastly superior in 9th than it has been since at least 5th, exluding 2++ rerolling invisible deathstars from 7th.

That's an interesting new idea Kcalehc.

I'm my draft ruleset, which looks very little like 8th, I've currently gone with 3+D6" charge range. I think with our measuring, some degree of randomness is required. The question is, how much?

Wyldhunt wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think that failing a charge should be disadvantageous.

Sincere, non-confrontational question: Why do you think failing a charge should have additional disadvantages? Failing a charge already means that you're likely within the threat range of enemy units. If the unit that failed to charge was a unit with expensive melee abilities, then it also means that part of your army has failed to contribute damage this turn. And given how melee units are often delivered, there's a good chance that the melee unit was off the table on turn 1 and thus wasn't contributing to your damage output.

So you can understand why I'm surprised that you feel failing a charge should be more of a disadvantage.

As long as charges provide extra movement, there must be disadvantages to declaring a charge. At first, you needed to be very close to a target to successfully charge (6") with no pre-measuring plus most weapons couldn't be fired if you wanted to charge and had to be fired at your charge target. This made it very easy for a unit to either be stuck at a disadvantaged position due to a failed charge or to have wasted firepower. When we moved to pre-measuring and 2d6 charge distance, Overwatch was added to give a disadvantage to charging. Now that Overwatch is mostly dead, it is safer than ever to declare a charge because you could roll high due to the lack of disadvantage to doing so.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Part of the problem is it makes none-bike/jump melee infantry look woefully obsolete compared to the units that do get the extra 6+" of range for free.

I totally agree that the current implementation isn't exactly stellar, which is why I suggested a 4+d6" charge range.

So why are bikes and jetbikes so slow on the charge?

Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs and people need to look at things differently. Infantry moves slowly, holds position. Mechanized Infantry is for rapid objective taking and holding. Outrider Detachments are meant for rapid hit and run engagements with the enemy.

It makes sense that an eldar shining spears can blast across the battlefield in a massive charge. Esp if you go back to the "proper" table size to bring back in maneuver to the game.

Primarily the "Fix" though isn't about charge range than it is about having a CHARGE PHASE.

GW has broken it's own game by "out of phase actions". Examples of this are assault moves in the shooting phase in previous editions and charging (movement) in the close combat phase. The solution is really quite easy.

All movement occurs in the movement phase, including compulsory moves. Compulsory moves include "out of turn actions" like fleeing or consolidation in combat.
All close combat occurs in the Combat Phase.
All shooting occurs in the shooting phase.
All Commands (CP) must be spent in the Command Phase. Yes, in advance of actual actions. No more I play my trap card BS. Plan ahead.

Part of making this all work requires no more or "limited" random movement. Which is FINE if you get to SHOOT OR CHARGE. Not both. An example of this would be you declare charges at the start of your movement phase. Use the old WHFB stuff here.

Overwatch is resolved in the Shooting Phase after the Charge move. No more, you don't shoot your flamer because the enemy STARTED too far away BS. They are running at you can you can "fire" when they are in range just fine. That was a band-aid to fix a problem better solved in other ways. Models are removed as the controlling player wishes so you have zero-chance of some trickery making the fight phase not happen. If your 5 man squad gets wiped out because of a flamer.. BRING BIGGER SQUAD NUB. The idea that a small squad gets annihilated by firepower while trying to charge an enemy makes a lot of sense. Bring more. It's not like I am not used to having 3 bike Dark Eldar Bikes getting slaughtered on charge/overwatch and having just ONE get in because reasons. I found that by making a larger bike squad my problem was solved. Or staged charges where I move the "fodder" to take the Overwatch so my killy bikes can fly in and mortal wound like mad-men they are. AKA. screw easymode. Dumb actions should hurt a lot. OP stuff should be burned on the altar.

This idea is not perfect and would need refinement. A lot would need updating. Sacred Cows would be slaughtered. Which is great. Too many people cling to OP and Broken systems as a means to WIN rather than looking for an actual fix to problems.

I actually think MORE morale phase stuff is needed. Morale is just BS atm, and it was before. We need suppression, we need "shaken" (with some fight or shooty penalty) and "broken" (flee) mechanics instead of just dead models.

But I like crunchy. I come from the days of cardboard chits next to models. Things like issuing ORDERS (loved Epic 40K).

I prefer a middle of the road approach.

Charge should be movement + D6, can never fail small charges (realistically) but also makes long charges still risky. It also has the added benefit of keeping slow moving units that can usually only move a small distance from making ridiculous charges to consolidate onto objectives.

To balance this for deep strike though, I'd make it so charges could not be re-rolled with CP.

Move+d6" charge means a jump pack unit arriving from deepstrike is succeeding the charge 100% of the time.
Even a normal 6" move unit is succeeding a 9" deepstrike charge 67% of the time.

A lot could be done if you radically changed the turn sequence to remove the charge phase entirely, and charge during movement.
There's positives and negatives to that though

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Move+d6" charge means a jump pack unit arriving from deepstrike is succeeding the charge 100% of the time.
Even a normal 6" move unit is succeeding a 9" deepstrike charge 67% of the time.

A lot could be done if you radically changed the turn sequence to remove the charge phase entirely, and charge during movement.
There's positives and negatives to that though

How about we simply don't allow charges after deep striking? Three editions at least did it that way and it was good.

Dont like the vehicles rules for destruction of...I have a rule which says you have to get rid of all the hull points before you can roll for destruction
In these rules an Ork Gorkanought can be knocked out on a single hit..

 Just Tony wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Move+d6" charge means a jump pack unit arriving from deepstrike is succeeding the charge 100% of the time.
Even a normal 6" move unit is succeeding a 9" deepstrike charge 67% of the time.

A lot could be done if you radically changed the turn sequence to remove the charge phase entirely, and charge during movement.
There's positives and negatives to that though

How about we simply don't allow charges after deep striking? Three editions at least did it that way and it was good.

Was it really that good though? I remember there being a lot of frustration around things like assault marines having to politely wait around before charging in rather than diving into the fray from off-screen. And unless I'm mistaken, assaulting from outflank was a thing. And if it wasn't, it's extra weird that assassin units like scorpions and mandrakes spend a ton of time setting up the perfect ambush just to sit around out in the open for a turn.

Not charging out of deepstrike was... fine. But I wouldn't call it an improvement over the current state of things.

Charging out of deepstrike is one of the most un-fun mechanics in the game, because it allows one player to destroy another player's unit with no chance for them to react or prepare ahead of time.

When those Assault Marines have to hide behind cover or vehicles for a turn before they spring the trap, the other player gets a chance to react beforehand. The alternative is profoundly frustrating.

Pointed Stick wrote:
Charging out of deepstrike is one of the most un-fun mechanics in the game, because it allows one player to destroy another player's unit with no chance for them to react or prepare ahead of time.

Well, other than placing screening units, hiding in transports, using stratagems that let you attack deepstriking units, or using abilities that let you heroically intervene (doesn't stop the first charging unit, granted).

But you're right about it potentially being frustrating. I wouldn't mind seeing something like intercept becoming a universal action.

That said, do you have the same problem with deepstriking shooty units? After all, they can arrive from reserves and destroy their opponent's units "with no chance for them to react." The difference is that random charges mean that there's a chance the melee unit doesn't get to make any attacks. So is your issue really with charging from reserves, or with reserves in general?

Wyldhunt wrote:
...Well, other than placing screening units...

If your army has cheap expendable units...

...hiding in transports...

Which then get charged and the charge-out-of-deepstrike unit gets to consolidate in and lock you in melee anyway...

...using stratagems that let you attack deepstriking units...

If your Codex was lucky enough to get one, and if your opponent's deepstriking only the one unit...

...or using abilities that let you heroically intervene (doesn't stop the first charging unit, granted)...

If your Codex was lucky enough to get one and your opponent was generous enough to land in the tiny 3" bubble you need to use the ability...

...That said, do you have the same problem with deepstriking shooty units? After all, they can arrive from reserves and destroy their opponent's units "with no chance for them to react." The difference is that random charges mean that there's a chance the melee unit doesn't get to make any attacks. So is your issue really with charging from reserves, or with reserves in general?

Personally my issue is with reliable no-consequence Reserves in general. Shooty deepstrike is at least as bad as charging out of deepstrike, since it lets you get short-ranged weapons to the perfect position exactly when you want them there with no chance of failure without giving your opponent any chance to interact with them.

 meatybtz wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Part of the problem is it makes none-bike/jump melee infantry look woefully obsolete compared to the units that do get the extra 6+" of range for free.

I totally agree that the current implementation isn't exactly stellar, which is why I suggested a 4+d6" charge range.

So why are bikes and jetbikes so slow on the charge?

I'm not sure I see what you mean. Bikes and jump packs may charge the same distance (4+d6") as normal infantry, but that doesn't mean they're still "fast" by virtue of moving farther. A unit that moves 12" is still going to be able to cover more max ground than a unit that moves 6". If the bikes and infantry both start off X" away from the target, the bikes will be able to get into melee more reliably by virtue of getting closer before the charge roll is made. If the enemy unit is so close that the extra speed of the bikes is irrelevant, then the speed of the bikes is, er, irrelevant.

All Commands (CP) must be spent in the Command Phase. Yes, in advance of actual actions. No more I play my trap card BS. Plan ahead.

This feels like broad change that would create more problems than it would solve. Bookkeeping, say, 4 stratagems over the course of a turn (especially your opponent's turn) sounds like a pain. It also lowers the value of a lot of strats unless you overhauled them. Do you have to pop smoke before your opponent has decided whether or not they're targeting a vehicle that can do so? Do you have to gamble on whether or not you'll kill a character in melee at the start of your turn when deciding whether or not to benefit from Feeder Tendrils? I feel like you're trying to reduce the efficiency boost created by stratgems, but there are ways to do that (just reducing the number of efficiency boosting stratagems for instance) that don't add bookkeeping or radically nerf strats in general.

I also feel that insisting all X happen in the X phase is arbitrarily limiting. JSJ was problematic once upon a time, but I'd actually like to see more of it come back in the 9th edition environment. I can understand not wanting to give units "extra" movement/shooting/etc., but you can do that without making things like overwatch, JSJ, etc. totally impossible.

Part of making this all work requires no more or "limited" random movement. Which is FINE if you get to SHOOT OR CHARGE. Not both. An example of this would be you declare charges at the start of your movement phase. Use the old WHFB stuff here.

I mean, I'm open to it. I like the idea of removing random advances in favor of a flat advance speed. But obviously making shooting/charging an either/or thing is going to nerf the snot out of units designed to do both. In a vacuum, this change basically makes non-specialized units worse, thus making them less likely to see play, thus reducing list diversity and player choice.

Overwatch is resolved in the Shooting Phase after the Charge move. No more, you don't shoot your flamer because the enemy STARTED too far away BS.
...
AKA. screw easymode. Dumb actions should hurt a lot. OP stuff should be burned on the altar.

I do like the idea of overwatching regardless of distance. I'd do it at the end of the charge phase, and only units that made it into melee are viable targets for overwatch. (So no punishing melee units for having the audacity to fail a charge). That said, you seem to be really down on melee units. It's probably not fair to call charging blood letters into fire warriors a "dumb action."

I actually think MORE morale phase stuff is needed. Morale is just BS atm, and it was before. We need suppression, we need "shaken" (with some fight or shooty penalty) and "broken" (flee) mechanics instead of just dead models.

I'd like to see morale revised but not necessarily complicated. My pitch: tag a bunch of abilities as "command" abilities. If units fail morale, they don't lose models. They just can't benefit from command abilities in the next turn. Makes morale a way to reduce your opponent's unit synergy rather than an extra form of damage. Doesn't result in weird situations like daemons freaking out and running away.

CC is usually more decisive than shooting, but shooty deepstrike is bad too.

However the real issue is how deadly deepstrike units can be today. The more deadly the unit, the bigger a buff it is to let them attack right out of deepstrike, and the more frustrating it is to be the victim of this. It's compounded by just how many units get to deep strike automatically, and how many more can be given it via strategem. It's no longer special and cool. Deep strike isn't so much "call in the reserves!" as it is "spring the trap!" All armies now have the ability to set up perfect ambushes, essentially.

For many editions IIRC the only unit that could perform the kind of deep strike everyone gets today was the Tyranid Lictor. And this special dispensation made it a terrifying unit--but it was just one model, so the Tyranid player had to choose the target wisely. So Lictors sniped vulnerable characters, backfield artillery units, etc. It was great. You couldn't deep strike a Lictor next to a full troops unit and obliterate it.

Now units with tremendous power get the Lictor's perfect ambush ability and it just sucks.