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I have been there myself with a good friend of mine btw. I lost continuously for aaaaaages.
And you know, he was just better at the game than me. It didn't mean that I was bad, per se, but like you I had certain ideas that I didn't want to change about how I played and I made certain mistakes in list building and so on, whereas he never made any mistakes.
It was unfortunate. And it made me feel pretty bad, at the time. But with hindsight, yeah, he was just better at the game than me. It happens.
Da Boss wrote: I have been there myself with a good friend of mine btw. I lost continuously for aaaaaages.
And you know, he was just better at the game than me. It didn't mean that I was bad, per se, but like you I had certain ideas that I didn't want to change about how I played and I made certain mistakes in list building and so on, whereas he never made any mistakes.
It was unfortunate. And it made me feel pretty bad, at the time. But with hindsight, yeah, he was just better at the game than me. It happens.
When this happens there's also a few things that can help patch things over
1) Play with a handicap. So you've lost every game for a solid year. Work on improving your game, but at the same time every so often play with a handicap system. Perhaps they bring less models or you bring more. The idea here is not for you to be cheating, but to level the playingfield and provide yourself a better chance to win and them a more challenging game.
2) Play outside of that one friend. I appreciate that this last year that is VERY hard advice for many and is likely to be the case for much of 2021, but in normal situations growing your local game community and broadening your opponents can help a lot. Heck work with them and help grow your local club; you're getting more people for you both so that there's a far greater chance of a having a broader skill base within the group; more beginners through to pros so that everyone has more games against those of a like skill.
Small groups (or one on one) can always run a risk that one person ends up superior to the other in a big way. They aren't fun matches, though sometimes with the handicap; some fun scenarios and the right attitude you can again regain the fun.
Yeah, part of the problem (I see now) was that he is just the kind of guy who can't "tone down". It's not in his nature. He always gives 100% in every game he plays. He is a lovely guy, I enjoyed my games against him a lot, but he doesn't have a slow mode.
Whereas I am and was then a) not as good as him, and I want to emphasise that because what comes next sounds like excuse making and b) more emotionally invested in my collection, so I wanted to use the minis I had for years and my favourites, and was inflexible about not doing that.
I like games that don't have a heavy emphasis on list building for that reason, it just makes it easier to play with the models you are attached to without setting yourself up for a hiding.
Nowadays I am mostly introducing newbies to wargaming and I intentionally give myself a handicap by using armies that have lower quality troops like goblins and so on. I think it is more fun for new people if they get to win!
Da Boss wrote: Yeah, part of the problem (I see now) was that he is just the kind of guy who can't "tone down". It's not in his nature. He always gives 100% in every game he plays. He is a lovely guy, I enjoyed my games against him a lot, but he doesn't have a slow mode.
Thing is "toning down" can actually be really hard as a concept for people to get their heads around when they know how to play a game well, because you're basically saying "please try and throw the match" to them. Even if they aren't super competitive, they are simply playing the game as it should be played and they don't really understand how to tone their game back - attempts to do so might result in them just being stupid and overcompensating (appearing insulting to the other person) or toning it back and still winning (esp because half way through the game they start playing normally anyway).
It's like someone saying "please do your maths worse" when doing basic adding up. 2+2 is 4 and trying to "dumb it down" can just be baffling
It's why I prefer to say "lets use a handicap" as opposed to "can you tone your game down." Handicaps are something they can more easily work with as a concept because you're not changing how they play the game, just how much they are playing with. You're changing the tools and, presented right, you're actually giving them more game to think about. Of course any use of a handicap will have to go through a trail phase where you work out what works between you; accepting that it will change over time (you might get better)
If both of you are enjoying the games, what does it matter who loses?
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
JohnnyHell wrote: If both of you are enjoying the games, what does it matter who loses?
It can be frustrating, even if the person is a great guy. It leads to things like "No, I don't want to play 40K, let's go bowling instead", or some other activity where they're more evenly matched, or isn't competitive at all.
JohnnyHell wrote: If both of you are enjoying the games, what does it matter who loses?
As much as people like to say it doesn't matter who wins as long as everyone has fun, I think if you've gone a very long stretch without winning, or even getting close to winning, it can be difficult to enjoy the game. Feeling as though you've got no chance of winning due to past results and experience can affect your attitude as soon as things start to turn badly. You may not need to win to have fun, but most people need to feel like they have a chance of winning to enjoy things.
In this case, I'd echo the advice from others here towards the OP: more Troops, take a single Battalion and use more terrain. I can't see how you can lose 3 Doomstalkers that consistently against that SoB list. Maybe concentrate on deploying defensively so you're out of range of the enemy melta on turn 1. Also, going by your previous comments, it seems as though you may be deploying wrong. You don't determine who has first turn until after deployment. That can make a big difference if you've been doing that wrong.
I read most on the first page. If you are scoring around 20 points not only are you bleeding main objectives. But it sounds like you are totally botching your secondery objectives.
Also, according to the Internett 20 man squads of robots are hard to put down. They need to be swiped in melee. Necron troops should be good. (And are.)
Also try not to plan on getting first turn. I find my deployments either lead to big wins or big losses because I gamle with bad ods on getting first turn.
He sounds selfish. He has one army that is good and he has invested time and effort in, and he insists you keep building new armies to play him for his amusement while he uses it to kill your armies. You might consider offering to play him but insist both people show up and flip a coin to see who gets which army. I bet he doesn't enjoy losing as gaurd very much, and might suddenly start helpign you design your army to have a chance...
Spoiler:
I digress. You were using leman russ tanks and they are too easy for a pair of exorcists to simply blow up. Four basilisks cost about the same (as TWO leman russ is the minimum to be plural, I assume you had roughly 2), as two tank commanders -- but you can rain death down on the exorcists on a roughly even footing. If you MUST run the big tanks, remember you have thrown away those points because the enemy, while ignoring ap-1 and 2, is probably starting off iwth a 4++ invuln on their own tanks. The humble 125 point basilisk (if you run 4, put them far enough apart that one melee unit can't kill more than one of them), however, shoots at -3 ap, and concentrating fire on your opponents 24 wounds of exorcist will potentially blow one up before they fire, at long range. You need troops to gaurd these, of course, mere speed bumps in the ultimate scheme of things -- but set up so that turn 1 charges become implausible for your foe.
so
platoon commander with powersword and plasma pistol
platoon commander with powersword and plasma pistol
10 gaurd
10 gaurd
10 gaurd (so far, this is probably all stuff you always run)
30 conscripts
astropath with +1 to save capability
malleus inquisitor with requisition strategem (-1 cp) for a warlord trait (extra psyker activity, deny, and cast) and a relic (-1 to be wounded). Give him the spells "dominate", "warding incantation" and of course he knows smite. He casts the 5++ shield on the conscripts and lends them his high leadership. The astropath lowers their shield to a 4++. Congratulations, they are now 4+/4++ .. but if you park them in cover and spend a cp, you can get them to 2+/4++. That's going to make it really hard for the sisters to wipe the gaurds in front of two of your basilisk, and the other one, use the 3 x 10 gaurdsmen as "layers" to keep the enemy from coming close in movement, and then, to soak a charge for a turn.
AND...
4 basilisks. I would put 2 in one corner, and 2 in the other. Also, you can give them full payload on two of them, allowing you to get the firepower equivalent of 5 basilisks. Its also easy to use to control your enemy's movement. If you do not expect him to fire his exorcists at the two with full payload turn 1, you are crazy, so you can set the conscripts to protect the other two. If you end up going first, blow his exorcists up, no worries, but if not, he will probably end up being forced to charge the 2 that remain.
This is a lot of points -- 975, but you have got the beginnings of forcing your opponent to split his forces, and you have enough firepower to be able to at least shoot back at him (perhaps you can manage to hide the good ones behind LOS blocking terrain?)
So he can't jsut smile and kill your armor, he is going to work for it, and end up dispersed across the board at the end of turn 1, and stuck in a mob of very surprisingly hard to kill conscripts. You have spent 2 cp to get a second tank ace (the first is paid for by giving up warlord trait on your warlord) and to upgrade your inquisitor.
Now the inquisitor, you will obviously be starting (as all your on theboard officers) out of line of sight of the vindicaire on the other side, right?
Now, scions, I recommend lambda lions.
You may have to buy some new gaurd for this part. I recommend a non-GW manufacturer's gaurd proxies of the scions troops, the "deathfields raumjager" infantry squads by atlantic wargames. Each 35 dollar US box comes with 24 bodies, with 24 lasguns (they could be hotshotlasguns!), 6 grenade launchers (you don't want here), 6 plasma rifles that are plasma rifles obviously (you can use), and 6 of a wierd looking machine gun that you can claim is a hotshotvolleygun. Also six pistols for officers scions.
You would need three such boxes, baiscally, giving you around 70 scions, each of which is armed with an ap-3 weapon, and is himself a 4+ save model with bs3+ who can deepstrike.
vindicaire assassin. Yep, get your own to go with this detachment, but be sure to start him on the board someplace that forces your enemy's vindileinchen to move to get line of sight to him. He will then be stuck where he is, because the first vindi to move is the one that dies.
tempest prime with plasma pistol (relic -1 cp "refractory field generator" gives all the scions in a six inch bubble (even only 1 of them) 5++ shield. (-1 cp extra for extra warlord trait to reroll all 1's to hit for scions in same bubble).
tempest prime with plasma pistol
tempest prime with plasma pistol
4 scions command squad with 4 hotshotvolleyguns
4 scions command squad with 4 hotshotvolleyguns
4 scions command squad with 4 hotshotvolleyguns
10 scions with 4 plasma and 5 hotshotlasgun and 1 plasma pistol
10 scions with 4 plasma and 5 hotshotlasgun and 1 plasma pistol
10 scions with 4 plasma and 5 hotshotlasgun and 1 plasma pistol
10 scions with 4 plasma and 5 hothshotlasgun and 1 plasma pistol
10 scions with 4 HSVG and 5 hotshotlasgun and 1 hotshotlaspistol
5 scions with 2 HSVG and 2 hotshotlasgun and 1 hotshotlaspistol
That's a battalion, incidentally, so its 3cp to take alongside your other battalion. It however unlocks the strategems from psychic awakening for both lambdas and for the generically available pure militarum tempestus (aka scions) detachment.
That's 925 on the pure gaurd side, and another 1075 on the scoins side. You will note you can put ALL the scions in deepstrike to come out on turn 2, simply plaster the enemy where he is not well defended, and take over half the board with a superior force (roughly twice his bodies, now) of troops all of whom are shooting ap-3 weapons at him. Your guys should be able to pretty much roll up all the sisters on the board in a turn of shooting, because only the ones RIGHT beside the cannonness and celeste will have that vaunted 4++ invuln field, and you just shot the cannoness in the head with your own vindicaire. Or maybe dominated his vindicaire and HIS vindicaire shot his own malleus in the head.
Anyway, that's my suggestion, although I confess it would take about 135$US, and require you to make a proxy inquisitor and get a vindicaire and an astropath. If you lack 4 basilisks, that too, could be an issue. Note that if you do, you could also field a tried and true pair fo leman russes, but its pretty obvious your enemy has designed an army to keep leman russ activity from harming him at longer ranges -- and its hard to bring enough leman russ to get to him on turn 1. There is a simply wicked powerful forgeworld option (medusa gun, I believe its called) you might consider that costs 155 points a tank, its drawback, however, is a 36 inch range (indirect), and the real chance that you will lose 2 of them to enemy fire on turn 1 no matter what you do. So Iwouldn't buy 3 of them because unlike your opponent, you don't plan your army to go first.
I repeat, you don't plan your army to go first. What is he gonna do if you ... fire your first basilisk at his first exorcist before he moves, and hit it 5 times, and get lucky on his rolls to save, and it blows up? Then the other three can blow up his other exorcist, and all your troops need do is stand in the way of his rhino for 1 turn. Because its going to blow up when they shoot again. He can't get his multimelta in range of your basilisk line very easily now -- because of course, you can't get OUT of the rhino AFTER it moves. So he can move his trooptank forward, after you blew his artillery, and then you can blow his trooptank as part of your turn 2 firing. So he is left with 10 seraphim to drop down and try to get past all your screens (I know they have some tricks) but you? YOU are going to drop fully 3 tempest prime, 12 command squad, and 55 troop scions on him and your guns are still firing. He will be lucky if one retributor crawls away bleeding when your basilisks unload, and perhaps 20 or 30 scoins troops happen to be 9 inches away with their plasma and hotshots available. His imagifier? Who cares. Send your vindicaire to kill his cannoness, or whatever he is getting his second +1 to the shield of faith from, as that is a warlord trait that will reduce your total firepower from the scions from killing 2/3 to killing 1/2 of his save attempt. OR,... well, , or alternately, shoot HIS vindicaire or malleus in the head and kill it.
Yes, I like the army I just put together in this fight, and I don't think its absolute crap in any fight, actually. Marine armies would have trouble with it, and it has enough indirect firepower to justify the gaurd on the table at the start -- and the option of making it a huge footslog army with a deathball of scions in a 5++ bubble running up the midboard. Not that I would do that, but you could be fairly conventional with it.
As you work up the tactics, you will get better at them, till you can yawn and blow up his sisters army in your sleep. That is the point where you invite him to buy a new, and different, army for you to play against.
So start the damn things offboard in strategic reserve would be an option, but its not, because you are yourself now starting all those scions in orbit.
I personally would just reach for my pile of crusaders and put 15 of them, a ministerium priest, and montbard, on the map, and around 2 squads of special weapons guys with 3 plasma each, to trot out around the corner of a LOS blocker and kill a few sisters, and an "assassinate" astropath with malstrom as his known spell.. But then, I have those, I dont know what you have.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/27 04:17:15
Firstly the major thing: If you're not on speaking terms with someone after a game and wanting to talk through it...there's a huge element of something-else going on i'm thinking.
In fact this is my favorite thing to do with people who, quite frankly, aren't as skilled/knowledgeable at the game as myself. I enjoy playing games where we do 100% takesy-backsies where we talk through moves and why they're doing that move; what they hope to accomplish, etc.
This is FAR more helpful that losing game after game after game. Loses are, usually, more helpful that wins when it comes to learning what you did wrong and could do better; but playing someone who you seem to have no chance against doesn't teach anything. It's like banging your head against a brick wall.
As to some others' points; why are YOU the one swapping armies and he isn't? It would be better for you to stick with ONE army and learn it. You can't figure out what you're doing wrong if your foundations change constantly.
Not only that; my current goal is to work on expanding my Necron collection such that I can "nerf" myself against some of my opponents who have a hard time playing my Orks. I kind of shelved them for a bit because I had a nearly 100% win rate in my group for a long while; so I would like access to an army with enough options to pick suboptimal picks in order to lessen the impact of a particularly powerful (by accident, I swear) army that just basks in the mechanics of 8th and 9th.
What little you've said leans toward, as someone said, your opponent just kinda enjoying beating up on you instead of teaching you and expanding your skillset to challenge him. Maybe we're off and that's not the case...but the blowup you mentioned kinda makes me thing that is a large part of the issue.
As for improvement upon yourself:
Take notes as others have stated. I score all my games in a notebook now, since you need "scratch" paper anyway. I leave room for notes on important things to improve. Take a whole page to do that and write down things during the game.
Next; army building. I'll tell you a secret that'll unlock 9th Edition for you. Take troops. Lots of troops. A good rule to follow is spending ~150points per unit. Troops can break this some ESPECIALLY as necron. 20 Man warrior squads times 3 and some support...an Ark and Cryptek...should win you most games to be honest. Warriors are insanely strong in 9th.
Furthermore, do nothing in 1s. Subtract 1 of anything (barring characters due to LoS) and that's what you have to work with. If you have 1 you have none. If you have 2 you have 1.
This plays into another tip: WANT turn 2. Build yourself such that you're just as happy with turn 2 as turn 1. This pulls another stresser off you overall. You're not being sad and set on the back foot when you lose first turn. You just accept you'll get 2nd and IF you get 1st it's a pleasantry.
The core concept of this is my attitude after years of dice hatting on me...expect everything you do to fail. Not that you cant succeed mind you. But lets say you have a 7 Inch rerollable charge. That's somehting like 75/80%? I assume I've failed it and dedicate SOMETHING under that assumption. Either extra charge unit. Screen. More shooting in that area that I think I need. Etc.
Conceptually this boils down to doing everything in your power to maximize your CERTAINTIES...which is what makes 9th so good. Scoring is based, largely, on 100% things: if hold objective then score Xpoints. Thus you can play a whole game and roll in the 20th percentile and still win IF you setup certain things. Sure it's not that simple but it's an ideal I strive for (especially if you ever pick up blood bowl) in order to mitigate my naturally bad dice luck.
To illustrate that...I'd say drop the Doomstalkers ASAP. d6 shots into d6 damage each is trash. There are so many failure points you can't control there it's assinine. Sure the models are cool...but I'd rather take Wraiths with Claws to deal with Tanks than those multiplicative d6 nightmares.
Anyway. Good luck in your advancement in skill and ability. I hope you'll flip the tables on this opponent of yours in the future
Dukeofstuff wrote: He sounds selfish. He has one army that is good and he has invested time and effort in, and he insists you keep building new armies to play him for his amusement while he uses it to kill your armies.
?? Where did you pull this crap from?
The OP stated that he started this hobby as a painter with Guard. And eventually grew tired of how they played. What, you've never been there? Build/Play one army & then switch because eventual dislike/bored/challenge/more cool models to build-paint/meta chasing?
I didn't see anywhere where he explained the reasoning behind having CSM & almost everything Necron, but I assumed originally being more on the painting/modeling side of our hobby had just as much to do with it (or more) than playing.
OPs essentially a novice gamer trying out lists, looking for some combo that'll work reasonably well vs his (ex?)-friend. Or others eventually....
Manous wrote: So, I am a bit salty at the moment but maybe there is someone who can help with my problem.
I mostly play against one friend, he mains SOB and plays a mix between netlist and some "funlist" additions.
I havent been able to win for one time in about a year (approx.) I played guard, the new necrons and CSM against him. With more and more competetive lists but so far I wasnt able to score a win.
Even more depressing, I mostly loose big e. g. 20 to 55 Victory point and tabled @ T3.
Is ist just because Sisters are way stronger than my armies or am I just plain bad? I try to focus on objectives but mostly roll extremly bad (as far as I can tell) or just dont live to turn 2 with enough of my army still standing to have any impact.
I think my mindset is biased aswell. I dont see my self in a spot where I am able to win.
We'd need more info about army lists, missions, and giving us a battle report.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
As to some others' points; why are YOU the one swapping armies and he isn't? It would be better for you to stick with ONE army and learn it. You can't figure out what you're doing wrong if your foundations change constantly.
And another person who's full of crap.....
1) The opponents not obligated to switch armies. Or even own multiple armies.....
2) Because the OPhas multiple armies & depth of inventory? That is the advantage of a large collection. You have options to try. Eventually you'll (hopefully) find some mix that works for you/works in the environment your in.
And did you not read the initial post where the OP stated that he'd eventually grown disenfranchised with how his Guard played?
And yet you'd recommend sticking with that army so that he learns it? Well he's learned he no longer likes Guard game-wise.... So?
I mean, why do you or I switch armies?
Thanks again for the kind advice.
I have been trying to omptimize my lists for secons turn and synergies but it mostly boiled down too "he got t1 and either moved out of position where I could shoot him or he destroyed too much of my army". And loosing your painted tanks and soldiers which took lots of time over and over again without proper response is just... Well... Unpleasant and discouraging
But I think I will go back to painting and collecting for now. Me and my friend are on quite bad terms atm, as I said, we had some sort escalation during the last game aftertalk.
Maybe 40k isn't the game for me, been playing since late 7th early 8th and had way more fun in the beginning than nowadays.
Maybe my enthusiasm will come back after some months/time.
Thanks again for all the support and kind/helpful comments. Have nice holidays all of you
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Manous wrote: Thanks again for the kind advice.
I have been trying to omptimize my lists for secons turn and synergies but it mostly boiled down too "he got t1 and either moved out of position where I could shoot him or he destroyed too much of my army". And loosing your painted tanks and soldiers which took lots of time over and over again without proper response is just... Well... Unpleasant and discouraging
But I think I will go back to painting and collecting for now. Me and my friend are on quite bad terms atm, as I said, we had some sort escalation during the last game aftertalk.
Maybe 40k isn't the game for me, been playing since late 7th early 8th and had way more fun in the beginning than nowadays.
Maybe my enthusiasm will come back after some months/time.
Thanks again for all the support and kind/helpful comments. Have nice holidays all of you
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A parting suggestion concerning enemies moving out of LoS.
Next time you get a game in, stick a Doom Scythe (or two) in reserve.
When they enter play they can be placed anywhere & pack decent firepower. And decent range - so even if you can't place them in the ideal spot odds are you still get to shoot up your intended targets. Very very few things can avoid them.
It'll take some practice though to keep them on the board due to the aircraft rules. But, by starting them in reserve, they can return next round if you botch their movement & accidently leave the board.
Dukeofstuff 794905 11015338 wrote:He sounds selfish. He has one army that is good and he has invested time and effort in, and he insists you keep building new armies to play him for his amusement while he uses it to kill your armies. You might consider offering to play him but insist both people show up and flip a coin to see who gets which army. I bet he doesn't enjoy losing as gaurd very much, and might suddenly start helpign you design your army to have a chance...
And telling someone he can't use the models he bought with his own money, and is suppose to buy new models and play them the way You want it, is not? Or making him play an army he didn't pick, and may even not like its game play, again just so that you can have with the army he bought? I ain't saying that it is fun to hear that you are doing something wrong, or that the money you spend on something are not as efficient as someone elses, but this goes ways beyond anything I have ever seen and enters the realm of participation thropies and making everyone happy, by not letting anyone win or lose.
Where is the fun in gaming, if the choices you make are unimportant, because the opponent is socialy obliged to act and correct in a such a way that you feel happy. That is probably beyond being selfish.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Dukeofstuff 794905 11015338 wrote:He sounds selfish. He has one army that is good and he has invested time and effort in, and he insists you keep building new armies to play him for his amusement while he uses it to kill your armies. You might consider offering to play him but insist both people show up and flip a coin to see who gets which army. I bet he doesn't enjoy losing as gaurd very much, and might suddenly start helpign you design your army to have a chance...
And telling someone he can't use the models he bought with his own money, and is suppose to buy new models and play them the way You want it, is not? Or making him play an army he didn't pick, and may even not like its game play, again just so that you can have with the army he bought? I ain't saying that it is fun to hear that you are doing something wrong, or that the money you spend on something are not as efficient as someone elses, but this goes ways beyond anything I have ever seen and enters the realm of participation thropies and making everyone happy, by not letting anyone win or lose.
Where is the fun in gaming, if the choices you make are unimportant, because the opponent is socialy obliged to act and correct in a such a way that you feel happy. That is probably beyond being selfish.
And on the flipside, where's the fun in gaming if you are now no longer playing? Seems like these two were probably only playing against each other. Now, for some reason we're not entirely aware of, they're no longer playing at all. If that was because one guy refused to tone down his lists so his opponent feels like he has at least a chance of winning then yes, it does seem pretty stupid not to have done that. It's not required or expected, necessarily, but if the end result is you no longer playing is it actually worth it? In my experience it's usually much easier to tone down a stronger list than it is to try to massively improve a weak one, at least without investing a lot of time and money to bring the weaker one up to the power of the other list.
I'm not saying that is why they're no longer even on speaking terms, but we have here a plausible example of why the attitude you're talking about isn't always beneficial. In a larger group it's probably fine as usually you find people with similar attitudes and approaches to the game to play against but in very small groups you absolutely may find that you have to tone things down unless you want to find yourself without any opponents.
I play both valorous heart and necrons and while ignoring ap-1 and -2 is incredibly powerful when used right it has a weakness, lose that sister and then it goes down fast.
In necrons you have a few tools for dealing with annoying buff chrs. Scarabs / deathmarks / wraiths all can fit that bill. Scarabs can get in close then blow themselves up. Deathmarks are snipers. Wraiths are fast and nasty.
Another way to deal with it is focus your army on ap0 and ap-1 weapons. If he doesn't face ap-2 guns then his girl is wasted.
As others have said outflank your anti tank for protection, this will help garuntee they last a turn to do something.
As for warriors not being good, thats just not true. Silver tide is incredibly powerful, I run 3 squads of 20 warriors and a squad of 10 immortals. The sisters anti tank may kill some but bolter fire won't do much. Don't forget reanimation happens after the enemy fires a unit at one of your units. Its hard to kill off 20 warriors when they have a great chance to get up, especially if he is running so much anti tank and not much anti infanty weapons past bolters.
The real interesting thing i saw looking at those 2 lists were you had a lot of vehicles and he had a lot of anti tank. Try running a game where you take nothing but infantry. Swarm as many bodies as you can across the table with nilitahk. Scarab swarms in large numbers all flying up the table and just landing on objectives with obspec are annoying to deal with when everything is moving fast and holding lines.
Now, for the more serious issue. Its hard when you get into an argument with a friend and you feel frustrated because you are not able to explain to them why you feel the way you do. Honestly there isnt much in this situation that you have control over beyond giving it time and then trying to talk to them again. Without knowing what was said or why the best advice there is be honest and try to stay calm. 2020 has been hard on everyone, maybe there is something else going on as well that makes him want to win in 40k so bad he doesn't realize what he is doing because in the game he has control and the ability to succeed vs what else is going on. I had a friend a few years ago slowly change from a great guy to a win at all costs guy and it was because of something he was keeping from us (his friends). He just needed to win because he wasn't feeling the best.
Manous wrote: Thanks again for the kind advice.
I have been trying to omptimize my lists for secons turn and synergies but it mostly boiled down too "he got t1 and either moved out of position where I could shoot him or he destroyed too much of my army". And loosing your painted tanks and soldiers which took lots of time over and over again without proper response is just... Well... Unpleasant and discouraging
But I think I will go back to painting and collecting for now. Me and my friend are on quite bad terms atm, as I said, we had some sort escalation during the last game aftertalk.
Maybe 40k isn't the game for me, been playing since late 7th early 8th and had way more fun in the beginning than nowadays.
Maybe my enthusiasm will come back after some months/time.
Thanks again for all the support and kind/helpful comments. Have nice holidays all of you
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This is a wargame, things will die, often. Uh, get over that. Especially as a Guard player, your things will die a lot and every single thing is expected to be expendable.
First off, when you think you're going to lose, you're more likely to lose. Always be thinking about how you're going to win. Consider where you'll score points, and what points your enemy will be trying to score; how they're going to go about it, and what you can do to prevent it. Also, when you're not very good, you'll lose a lot until you get better, and you should be considering each and every game you play and determining not only what you did that worked and was threatening and also what didn't work or where your enemy got the advantage of you. A better attitude and some careful thought after each game will go a long way towards improving.
As far as things go: I play Sisters and Guard and am very familiar with CSM, so coming from that insight, I don't think his Sisters list is particularly scary, at least not as scary as other ones I'm seeing out there. He almost seems short on stuff in general, I haven't computed it but have to wonder where his points have gone. I think with a bit of careful thought and planning, you could beat his list.
Consider the following ideas:
CQC is important: it dictates the pace of the game, and it allows you to take an objective from the enemy. Shooting can largely only deny an objective, but CQC can take it. You want to take objectives early in the game. His CQC front is kind of weak, since he has literally none of the good SoB CQC units and isn't Bloody Rose. You can most likely overpower his 5 squads of infantry once the arcos are gone. Arcos are W2 infantry with a FNP, whatever you would use to kill marines, you should also use to kill them. I don't consider them that good, at least compared to Repentia and Mortifiers.
He's also taking VH, and you're taking Mephrit, so his choice counters yours. There are other dynasties, unless you're emotionally invested in Mephrit, consider a different one.
Pick your secondaries carefully. Consider how many points you can get, and how you're going to get them when you're building your list. Anything that winds up as "oh neat, that will be easy" after your opponent reveals their list is a pleasant surprise.
His list is very dense on acceptably decent antitank, but weak on ability to service infantry. Right now you're present ideal targets for his list with not a lot of infantry and a lot of mediocre vehicles. Consider changing that, so his expensive guns don't find cost efficient targets..
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
This video/podcast really helped me with my competitive events. But I feel it may be valid here as well.
I lost every game in 8th for the first six months. So I kinda understand what you're talking about. I've gone to many tournaments and done soo poorly. But I've done the opposite as well. VT has really helped my game since watching their content.
Bosskelot wrote: I'm surprised you lost 3 Doomstalkers to that list in 1 turn.
Retributors and Exorcists are good but not that good on average.
But yes, the height of your models makes no difference. If a piece of Terrain is classed as Obscuring (ruins over 5" tall qualify for this) anything can hide behind it (barring exceptions like 18+ wounds)
Here's a game between two competitive players showcasing Necrons vs Sororitas. Even though the Necron player takes two Doomstalkers and acknowledges that they're not very good units, he still proceeds to win the game 78-48. The Sisters list is definitely the more competitive/strong one in this game too.
Always nice to find another source for battle reports, I think I like Tabletop Tactics and 40k in 40 Minutes better for presentation but it's nice to see an army that isn't either a studio pattern or black. Half the TTT games you really have to watch closely to not lose track of which blob of black models belongs to which player.
I would say this, first I just saw this, second, hope your holidays went well so far.
That said, I tell every new player this, you'll lose a lot, a hell of a lot till you really win versus an experienced player. If you both have the same experience, it could just be a skill gap, no shame in that.
As for how to make sure you have a good game ? I do have some advice with that.
First, losing all the time ain't no fun. I get that but it doesn't need to always be a bummer. First off, make sure you are making either the best choices in game or at least the most fun choices. If you are doing one of those two things, you don't need to worry of what happens with the dice.
Second, dice are fickle, as long as you feel you made good choices, decisions and picked the right tools for the job, sometimes the dice will just screw you, so don't worry about it. You aren't the models, and you aren't the dice rolls, just curse them for cowards and lament how useless the units are, that's what I do.
Third, just enjoy the game experience if you are doing the best you can, you've already won inside. Sooner or later if you keep changing, learning, planning, you'll find the sweet spot and when you win it will feel glorious. Just don't be discouraged and keep trying to change your tactics, learn and make a more focused list that supports itself and have a solid plan, you can't control what your opponent does but you can control what you have planned to do regardless.
Lastly, have fun, laugh off the bad and just keep a positive attitude, even if you have to pick whatever unit your friend loves most and destroy it at the outset of every battle. That part sounds mean but making secondary morale goals is important if you know you'll lose anyways, anything to keep your spirit in the game.
Also, remember it's easier to burn a bridge than build it anew, so try and not let a game come between a real friend, it's never worth it. If they aren't a real friend well don't worry about it but relationships are more important than a game, even this one. Sorry to hear about the fight you had with your buddy, perhaps you'll both work it out. Nothing is over till its over don't be afraid to be the bigger man and apologize for words said on your end that were bad if they were, it may not fix it but you can say you did what you could.
Stay safe, have fun, and keep working for it and that win will be there.
CCB with Orb of Resurrecrtion ->Orb of Eternity, Warscythe
Technomancer with Canoptek Control Node, Fail Safe Overcharger
Chronomancer with Veil of Darkness Relic and Hypermaterial Ablator
20 Warriors
5 Immortals w Gauss
10 Lychguard with Warscythe
3 Canoptek Spyders
1 Triarch Stalker with Heat Ray
2 Cryptothralls
2x5 Canoptek Scarabs
3 Doomstalker
What other models/units do you have?
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