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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Most of GW's products are 'main line'. They will be restocked and will end up on the shelves.

Box sets and other bundles come out regularly, and if you want them, snag them quickly because they aren't guaranteed to stick around.

Cursed City is a victim of many issues. No conspiracy, just an underproduction of something in a time where production and logistics is, and has for the last year, been very difficult.

If you really, really care, enough to doom and gloom about the state of GW, then set yourself some phone reminders to be on the GW site the moment the preorders go up and buy the thing you want. Then, you'll be too busy playing with all your new toys to care about the rest of the population.
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope




North Carolina

 Gert wrote:
Again technically it's more than 1bn so in that sense it's multi-billion but considering companies like Unilever (£113bn) or BP (£55bn), the £2bn market cap is peanuts.

M&S might be worth less than GW on the stock market but it employs about 85k people compared to GW's 2k. Centrica is similar.

GW has seen a lot of growth, yes, but they don't have anywhere near the same market power M&S or Centrica has. GW sits in a very niche market that probably won't be able to sustain the growth it's seen over the last decade and could that growth could disappear as quickly as it appeared. People will always need gas/electricity/supermarkets.


Wow, GW and BP in the same sentence. Yeah, O&G is in the crapper, and GW is still mostly flying high, but that's mind boggling. And yeah, I betcha money that if BP went through an ERP transition like this, they'd have the same issues. This stuff is hard for like 99.99999% of companies
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




People are trying to say that games-workshop's codex balance problems and release issues are based on covid. The only thing I could possibly say is that their shipping would be possibly damaged this poorly, ie shipping books isnt a huge problem; and they have plenty of $$ of play-test and release the books. They can't even give chaos-marine's their 2nd wound.. thus they must just "really" want to release their special box sets, and thus; thats the real reason they refuse to make these rules updates/balance changes to 9th edition. Basically, they'd rather sell us more bang for our buck (cause of shipping reasons) and sell us their special edition box sets vs standard sets; because, games-workshop has to be benevolent in our eyes.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




If you are good at something never do it for free.

GW is good at milking rules to people who are demonstrated to be too lazy to make an actual living ruleset. That's the crazy thing here. Fans could just stop using the rules, and tournaments could be like, we are JUST doing 8th here. Yeah, they might lose GW funds, but that's not where even 10% of the funding for those come from. It's from event tickets and merch revenue. Just STOP giving into FOMO and GW will stop playing that BS game. That all being said I need to go order the new Belakor. (/sarcasm)
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If you are good at something never do it for free.

GW is good at milking rules to people who are demonstrated to be too lazy to make an actual living ruleset. That's the crazy thing here. Fans could just stop using the rules, and tournaments could be like, we are JUST doing 8th here. Yeah, they might lose GW funds, but that's not where even 10% of the funding for those come from. It's from event tickets and merch revenue. Just STOP giving into FOMO and GW will stop playing that BS game. That all being said I need to go order the new Belakor. (/sarcasm)


...isnt that essentially what ITC did all throughout 8th edition? or are you telling me ITChammer wasn't effectively its own edition running concurrent to 8th?

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




I am sorry, I never played or followed ITC. Maybe you are right. But honestly, if someone on here created a Ninth Edition Battle hammer 400k PDF, and posted it, would anyone here actually play it or would you continue to only play GW's version. This is the major issue, and sorta why DnD off shoots never survive.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

everyone would play the GW Version because your version is not the real 40k
(I removed vehicle facings and armour in 6th and was told that nobody would ever play a 40k without those essential features and they rather play Fantasy instead)

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

GW is good at milking rules to people who are demonstrated to be too lazy to make an actual living ruleset. That's the crazy thing here. Fans could just stop using the rules, and tournaments could be like, we are JUST doing 8th here. Yeah, they might lose GW funds, but that's not where even 10% of the funding for those come from. It's from event tickets and merch revenue. Just STOP giving into FOMO and GW will stop playing that BS game. That all being said I need to go order the new Belakor. (/sarcasm)

there are no tournaments here that get any funds

we used to play our very own rules for tournaments during 5th/6th/7th 40k as well 6th/7th Fantasy

what happend? Nu-GW said that this time they will really try and the game will be the best game ever
and all jumped on this never asked again because this time it is for real

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 12:42:39


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am sorry, I never played or followed ITC. Maybe you are right. But honestly, if someone on here created a Ninth Edition Battle hammer 400k PDF, and posted it, would anyone here actually play it or would you continue to only play GW's version. This is the major issue, and sorta why DnD off shoots never survive.


I forgot Pathfinder doesn't exist, and wiped the floor with D&D for roughly an edition and a half. Shame about 2nd edition though.

But no random 'someone' is going to create a widely accepted version of 40k by posting it for free on Dakka. Getting buy in requires time, resources and effort (and shiny packaging).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 12:58:18


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





yukishiro1 wrote:
Five years is plenty of time to develop competence in keeping with your economic value.


This would be true if the last 16 months of the five year period in question bore any resemblance to the first 44 months of that period. But they don't, so it isn't.

If anything, GW was able to far exceed reasonable expectations during the first 44 months and THAT is what makes the contrast so stark. If they hadn't overperformed in the first 44 months, we'd still be seeing problems, but they wouldn't seem as profound.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Something that hasn't been discussed: we're in the middle of a worldwide shipping epidemic. It's a container issue. There aren't enough shipping containers to keep up with demand.

To put this in perspective:

In this article, someone describes the cost for shipping going to £10,000 for a container that used to cost £1,600 to ship.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55740063

This article from Bloomberg talks about how long this is going to remain an issue. We'll see increased shipping prices of 25% to 40% for at least 12 months.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/higher-shipping-costs-are-here-to-stay-sparking-price-increases/ar-BB1fy6Lh

I follow international shipping closely, the price increases are a result of long term trends and Covid has very little to do with it. Can't see how GW would not be affected or how refactoring their price model would not be the major reason for delays.

   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Containers via ship from China are not the only possible way to get your products

it is just the cheapest way to get large amount of stuff from Asia to Europe

smaller amounts can be done faster by train and with th eincreased shipping costs for containers, it might be already cheaper

and of there is just very little to ship, get yout package into a plane


the problem for GW here is more on the raw material side than on actual products and books can be done by train if needed

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 kodos wrote:
Containers via ship from China are not the only possible way to get your products

it is just the cheapest way to get large amount of stuff from Asia to Europe

smaller amounts can be done faster by train and with th eincreased shipping costs for containers, it might be already cheaper

and of there is just very little to ship, get yout package into a plane


the problem for GW here is more on the raw material side than on actual products and books can be done by train if needed


Given Brexit I am not so sure that importing raw material is as simple as it used to be - same deal with trains, but I haven't the faintest idea where they source their material.

   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





I'd guess relatively local for the plastic. There is a massive chemical industry in the UK/EU still. Wouldn't make much sense to import that stuff from China.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. GW's primary buisnes is models not the game. They make models first and everything else sorta has to follow from there.




 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 kodos wrote:
Containers via ship from China are not the only possible way to get your products

it is just the cheapest way to get large amount of stuff from Asia to Europe

smaller amounts can be done faster by train and with th eincreased shipping costs for containers, it might be already cheaper

and of there is just very little to ship, get yout package into a plane


the problem for GW here is more on the raw material side than on actual products and books can be done by train if needed


Maybe...

I don't know that much about GW's supply chain specifically, but a lot of plastic (as a raw material) globally is sourced from China. Not to mention books, which seem to be being printed there these days.

Supply chain issues have a cascading effect on costs. When a good becomes scarce, the cost to use it increases as there's increased competition for the good. If your finished product relies on that good, that cost has to be passed onto consumers or your profits suffer.

On top of that, there's a question of timing. Just because you can get a shipping container headed for North America, that doesn't mean you can get one headed to Australia at the same time. This usually isn't an issue, because traditionally there's been an excess of international shipping capacity. Right now, that's not the case, any time the cost for shipping increases it's based on demand.

This is a long way of saying the problem for GW would be at each end. Plastic doesn't get shipped in small batches, it gets shipped by the tons to a distributor who resells it to manufacturers. Shipping large quantities of finished product to North America / Australia by air is expensive, even compared to today's high container prices. From an SCM perspective, the reaction should be be to cut low margin / low volume products (like specialist games) and focus on high margin items.

But my bet is someone at GW is looking very closely at cost to manufacture / cost to ship. Can't imagine this issue is being ignored.

   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





There was that big boat that blocked the Suez for a week.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Gert wrote:
There was that big boat that blocked the Suez for a week.


Yea that should be resolved overall by now though - unless their stuff in on that boat and it is still being held hostage by Egypt.

   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

main source of plastic raw material (not the actual plastic but really the raw material to make the different plastics) is USA and Saudi Arabia

and those deliver less than before and what is available is re-directed to China

this has a big impact for the european industry as simply things like fuse boxes or plastic for vacuum packaging are unavailable in big enough quantities to keep things going (the medical supply chain is hit hard at the moment)

and this is not expected to change until end of 2021

so while GW might get their plastic from a local source, at the moment those local sources have trouble to get the raw material to make that plastic

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 kodos wrote:
main source of plastic raw material (not the actual plastic but really the raw material to make the different plastics) is USA and Saudi Arabia

and those deliver less than before and what is available is re-directed to China

this has a big impact for the european industry as simply things like fuse boxes or plastic for vacuum packaging are unavailable in big enough quantities to keep things going (the medical supply chain is hit hard at the moment)

and this is not expected to change until end of 2021

so while GW might get their plastic from a local source, at the moment those local sources have trouble to get the raw material to make that plastic


A lot of those raw materials are petrochemicals. The US just stopped issuing licenses for oil drilling on public lands, which creates additional supply chain uncertainty towards the end of 2021.

It's funny, the bottom fell out on oil about a year ago and gas consumption dropped dramatically. There should be massive surpluses, but that's not how the market works. Smaller oil companies were bought out by the Fed and simply stopped operations. Pipeline deals have been cancelled by the current administration.

   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
If five guys in grandma's basement keep screwing up your orders, you kind-of understand because it's five guys in grandma's basement. When a multi-billion dollar company keeps screwing up your orders, you rightly are going to have higher expectations.


Those five guys probably aren't running a warehouse, manufacturing plant, b&m stores, magazine, business intelligence, social media campaigns, ecommerce, point of sale, IP licensing, novels, benefits, etc.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have expectations, but it isn't a simple problem, either.

The problem is actually simple though - build more production plants.

Perhaps they don't feel like they are losing money making people wait to buy products....I think the main reason is this though and it is understandable. If they were to product more production facilities - they would have to make them in another country to maximize profits (Like the US first). Perhaps they feel this would inevitably make them lose control of them company to a foreign power. English Pride you could call it. Which I am actually fine with and totally respect. I only wish people in my own country actually cared about such things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 15:52:16


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

it is not that easy as just because you can sell more does not mean you can sell enough to justify a new machine in the long run

 techsoldaten wrote:

It's funny, the bottom fell out on oil about a year ago and gas consumption dropped dramatically. There should be massive surpluses, but that's not how the market works. Smaller oil companies were bought out by the Fed and simply stopped operations. Pipeline deals have been cancelled by the current administration.

well there was a massive surplus but because of less need overall extraction was reduced leading to a shortage of specific petrochemicals (also some noble gases are short because they are a minor side product of oil extraction and without a massive production there is just not enough) now instead of half a year ago

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 16:42:07


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
If five guys in grandma's basement keep screwing up your orders, you kind-of understand because it's five guys in grandma's basement. When a multi-billion dollar company keeps screwing up your orders, you rightly are going to have higher expectations.


Those five guys probably aren't running a warehouse, manufacturing plant, b&m stores, magazine, business intelligence, social media campaigns, ecommerce, point of sale, IP licensing, novels, benefits, etc.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have expectations, but it isn't a simple problem, either.

The problem is actually simple though - build more production plants.


This is pretty flawed logic.
There's a shipping/supply issue in general. If you can't ship finished product about easily, and you can't ship the raw materials about, how do you think you're going to produce & ship the materials to build those new production plants?
And then, after you build them, where's the raw materials they'll run on? If you can't get the stuff to plant A you won't be able to get it to plants A & B.

   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






ccs wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
If five guys in grandma's basement keep screwing up your orders, you kind-of understand because it's five guys in grandma's basement. When a multi-billion dollar company keeps screwing up your orders, you rightly are going to have higher expectations.


Those five guys probably aren't running a warehouse, manufacturing plant, b&m stores, magazine, business intelligence, social media campaigns, ecommerce, point of sale, IP licensing, novels, benefits, etc.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have expectations, but it isn't a simple problem, either.

The problem is actually simple though - build more production plants.


This is pretty flawed logic.
There's a shipping/supply issue in general. If you can't ship finished product about easily, and you can't ship the raw materials about, how do you think you're going to produce & ship the materials to build those new production plants?
And then, after you build them, where's the raw materials they'll run on? If you can't get the stuff to plant A you won't be able to get it to plants A & B.


"Shipping/Supply" encompasses a lot of different types of problems. Some of which are local/regional/international . Which is why you build facilities all over the world.

GW was already having production problems before covid due to an extremely local problem (local power generation issues) that another facility in another town in England could have solved no problem and made the company millions more than they made. You also save on shipping costs when you can build your product closer to the source.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/994065/games-workshop-sales-worldwide-region/

Via this graph it is pretty clear that 3 regions are worthy of their own production centers.
US/UK/Europe

It is utter madness to not supply your customers with products they want to buy. Pandemics only make things harder - so why make it harder on yourself by limiting the amount of supply you can build by only producing at one main facility? I am not saying they should rush build facilities now. I'm saying they should already be constructed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 17:33:06


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




Ok, anyone here have a degree in business management or ever taken a class in supply side economics?

What happens when a production-based business grows more in intangible property than in physical assets? Or another way: what happenens when a business in a capitalist society that just makes money off selling products becomes incapable of selling it's product?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Factories are expensive....

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Xenomancers wrote:
ccs wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
If five guys in grandma's basement keep screwing up your orders, you kind-of understand because it's five guys in grandma's basement. When a multi-billion dollar company keeps screwing up your orders, you rightly are going to have higher expectations.


Those five guys probably aren't running a warehouse, manufacturing plant, b&m stores, magazine, business intelligence, social media campaigns, ecommerce, point of sale, IP licensing, novels, benefits, etc.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have expectations, but it isn't a simple problem, either.

The problem is actually simple though - build more production plants.


This is pretty flawed logic.
There's a shipping/supply issue in general. If you can't ship finished product about easily, and you can't ship the raw materials about, how do you think you're going to produce & ship the materials to build those new production plants?
And then, after you build them, where's the raw materials they'll run on? If you can't get the stuff to plant A you won't be able to get it to plants A & B.


"Shipping/Supply" encompasses a lot of different types of problems. Some of which are local/regional/international . Which is why you build facilities all over the world.

GW was already having production problems before covid due to an extremely local problem (local power generation issues) that another facility in another town in England could have solved no problem and made the company millions more than they made. You also save on shipping costs when you can build your product closer to the source.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/994065/games-workshop-sales-worldwide-region/

Via this graph it is pretty clear that 3 regions are worthy of their own production centers.
US/UK/Europe

It is utter madness to not supply your customers with products they want to buy. Pandemics only make things harder - so why make it harder on yourself by limiting the amount of supply you can build by only producing at one main facility? I am not saying they should rush build facilities now. I'm saying they should already be constructed.



Look, you (and plenty of others) don't know what you're talking about. So just stop.
GW HAD production facilities for minis here in the USA at one time (maybe elsewhere as well, but I never paid attention). For assorted reasons they decided that no longer suited their needs/goals. I'm betting alot of $$$ was involved....
And as they haven't rebuilt/re-opened those facilities? I suspect it still doesn't suit their actual needs/goals - regardless of your ideas on the subject.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Deadnight wrote:
Factories are expensive....

QFT.

I firmly believe factories would exist in every country there are customers if there was an economic justification. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's conducive with building a multi-billion dollar company.

75% margins and 26% growth in sales on a cost of about 28% of sales is a beautiful situation. That doesn't happen when you duplicate production facilities all over the place. Machines are expensive, real estate is expensive, labor is expensive, local taxes are expensive, etc.

If GW had production in North America, the only thing that means is more people / machines sitting idle waiting for containers to arrive. Would prefer to know the company is resilient, well managed and prepared to continue operating beyond the current situation.

   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

just something simple what most people get wrong

if you sell your products for half the price, you need to sell 3 times as much to make the same money, not double

because the fixed costs stay the same and the make up a larger amount of "half the price" that a double in sales cannot compensate

the same happens if you increase the fixed cost by adding more factories

another factory in another country or even just another machine including workes does not mean "selling a little bit more to make more profit" but doing 3 times as much as before just to get on the same level again

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

hahaha. dakka really comes out with some weird stuff. Super short memories. Whatever YOU think, GW is absolutely red hot right now. The last 5/6 years under Rountree have seen absolutely insane growth. It has literally been the best performing stock on the London Exchange. They announced plans for significantly more manufacturing and storage capacity but they have had problems as their location doesn't have the capacity to provide the kind of power GW would need. They hit a bottle neck.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Hollow wrote:
hahaha. dakka really comes out with some weird stuff. Super short memories. Whatever YOU think, GW is absolutely red hot right now. The last 5/6 years under Rountree have seen absolutely insane growth. It has literally been the best performing stock on the London Exchange. They announced plans for significantly more manufacturing and storage capacity but they have had problems as their location doesn't have the capacity to provide the kind of power GW would need. They hit a bottle neck.


I think that facility is online as per a recent investor report. This particular snafu likely has more to do with a variety of systems becoming unresponsive on top of other issues with shipping, supply, and what not.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
If five guys in grandma's basement keep screwing up your orders, you kind-of understand because it's five guys in grandma's basement. When a multi-billion dollar company keeps screwing up your orders, you rightly are going to have higher expectations.


Those five guys probably aren't running a warehouse, manufacturing plant, b&m stores, magazine, business intelligence, social media campaigns, ecommerce, point of sale, IP licensing, novels, benefits, etc.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have expectations, but it isn't a simple problem, either.

The problem is actually simple though - build more production plants.


This from the person who earlier said "The reality is GW is a terribly run company with terrible leadership." You have no idea what you're talking about. Production facilities for a company like GW are literally the single biggest capital investment they will ever make. They used to have production in the US and they closed it because it wasn't making financial sense. The fixed costs of production facilities are also some of the largest fixed costs a company will have, outside of payroll. I strongly suspect GW simply doesn't produce the volume of product necessary to justify multiple factories at different locations around the globe.

GW is not a terribly run company. From a business perspective they're one of the best run companies in the world right now, seeing sustained growth in multiple areas and carrying no debt whatsoever while apparently continuing to grow their customer base. We can discuss how good they are as a games developer and I would agree they're actually pretty bad as the quality of their rules are some of the worst among the bigger games companies but the reality is that's not what the market seems to think is important.
   
 
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