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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Xenomancers wrote:
Realistically for a unit that can advance and charge. Rapid fire is a bad profile for the shooting weapon. They should have just gave him bs 4+ or made it assault 24 if they wanted to make the weapon better.


Except for a model that can shoot it into melee.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 solkan wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:That's such a weird transliteration in the Japanese: Gazugukkaru Zaraga. The Japanese translation of the blurb above the rules is also awkward and unnatural. Are the Japanese translations of GW products all this bad? I've never looked before.


yukishiro1 wrote:Gazugaru Zaaka would be the obvious choice.


How do you get that?

It's trying to "transcribe" Ghazghkull". And it's doing so as Gazu Gu <stop> KaRu. If you're pronouncing Ghazghkull as Gazg <stop> kull, that's traditionally transcribed that way. The same sort of way that Gundam is written "Gandamu"--just because all of the vowels sound alike to English speakers, doesn't mean they do to everyone else.


I am a Japanese speaker. That transliteration is nonsense. Assuming it's pronounced the way everyone says it - two syllables, gaz and cull or gull - transliterating that to Gazugukkaru is bizarre. Why would anyone transliterate ghaz to gazugu instead of just gazu? And why the sokuon? That makes no sense, there is no geminate in the common English pronunciation.

The only way this transliteration makes any sense is if we've all been saying it wrong in English and the actual pronunciation is ghaz-goog-Kuhl.

Edit: I just checked GW's own promotional video, they say Gaz-gul. So that transliteration is garbage.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 03:08:30


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






It would make sense that Gaz kul thraka be transferred into kanji by syllables and spelled phonetically to the nearest approximation.

Gadzu-Kuru Taraku maybe ? Its been many years since ive been to japan or spoken the language though.. .

Average person wont be able to correctly pronounce things from another language family anyway.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 03:13:47


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Domandi wrote:
I wouldn't say it was a waste of cash. It came with a ton of cool models, and the rules helped both armies. Was it worth full price? meh. I made out fine because I sold off the marine parts.

Either way, I am super pumped for the new Ork codex given how all the other 9th books have been. I also can't wait to play in stores again.


Of course the box with models didn't come up with supplement.

2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The transliteration of ork is weird too, they have it as oruku, the standard is o-ku. All the translation on that page feels to me like something done by a non-native speaker.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





yukishiro1 wrote:
The transliteration of ork is weird too, they have it as oruku, the standard is o-ku. All the translation on that page feels to me like something done by a non-native speaker.

Are you a native speaker? Having silent rs pronouced when transliterated into Japanese is incredibly common.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The standard transliteration is o-ku. Look it up if you don't believe me. Can't link because the website won't recognize it, but there's a wiki for example under オーク (架空の生物). I think they use O-ruku in AOS, which makes sense since GW changed the name of orcs in that game to orruks for trademark purposes, and transliterating that with the ru is sensible.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 05:42:18


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I literally can't think of any ork weapons that are currently Rapid Fire. Shoota and shoota variants are all Assault, as are rokkit launchers (suiting the whole ork run and gun ethos). Most other infantry weapons tend to be Heavy, like snazzguns and deffguns.

Are we sure that symbol means Rapid Fire? Or is there something else indicating that attack type?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Again, apparently that's the datasheet that's always shipped with the box. It's just an error, apparently nobody noticed it before. It's not new.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Hankovitch wrote:
I literally can't think of any ork weapons that are currently Rapid Fire. Shoota and shoota variants are all Assault, as are rokkit launchers (suiting the whole ork run and gun ethos). Most other infantry weapons tend to be Heavy, like snazzguns and deffguns.

Are we sure that symbol means Rapid Fire? Or is there something else indicating that attack type?


Yes, it's rapid fire. You can compare it to the datasheets of any marines with bolters.

Switching it to rapid fire definitely makes it better for shooting while locked in combat, which is something we've also seen on the PBC's rothail volley gun.

I really hope that this will be a common change to orks, shootas, snazzguns, dakka guns and the mek speshul could all benefit from getting rapid fire weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/12 07:01:08


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




<Bangs head against wall>
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles




 solkan wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:That's such a weird transliteration in the Japanese: Gazugukkaru Zaraga. The Japanese translation of the blurb above the rules is also awkward and unnatural. Are the Japanese translations of GW products all this bad? I've never looked before.


yukishiro1 wrote:Gazugaru Zaaka would be the obvious choice.


How do you get that?

It's trying to "transcribe" Ghazghkull". And it's doing so as Gazu Gu <stop> KaRu. If you're pronouncing Ghazghkull as Gazg <stop> kull, that's traditionally transcribed that way. The same sort of way that Gundam is written "Gandamu"--just because all of the vowels sound alike to English speakers, doesn't mean they do to everyone else.


First of all in Japanese when you sandwich you vowels it’s smashed between the consonant sounds so hard it’s practically silent. Think Sasuke, a Japanese name that sounds like Sauce-kay to English speakers. Second, being aware of what sounds are in the Japanese language, and what aren’t, this is as close to the original pronounciation we can get with Japanese scripts and sounds. The way it is spelled makes almost perfect sense.

Disclaimer: I lived in japan and took several months of a Japanese course that got canceled so this is to the best of my understanding. Native Japanese speakers or hell, anyone that can actually speak Japanese trumps my take.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






yukishiro1 wrote:
<Bangs head against wall>


Let me see if I can help.

The data sheet shown is, from what I gather from your comments, incorrect and has always been incorrect since Ghaz was first released. Monk’s Roar is therefore most likely still an Assault 12 weapon, as for now at least, the data sheet in Saga of the Beast supersedes it?

You suspect it will remain so in the Ork codex.

Apologies if this comes across patronising etc. It’s not meant to be, just me trying to make sure I understand the discussion.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






When he was first released, he came with the Prophecy of the Wolf booklet which had 8th edition style datasheets.

The solo box was released at the same time as the space wolves supplement, with a 9th edition datasheet. Considering how they still planned to shell out 2 codices per month at that time, there is a good chance that this actually is the datasheet from the next codex because orks were supposed to happen some time in February or March.
At that point most people probably brushed them off as errors, as people both weren't expecting an ork codex at that point, and because massive datasheet leaks only really took off with the DG codex.

It's also worth noting that those changes are in line with changes we have seen for DG or drukhari.

Those datasheets have no significance for any rules arguments either, als GW always tells you to look at the codex for full rules.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 08:48:53


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Fayetteville NC

If Ghaz no longer has a cap on wounds, I hope he has some other mechanic to protect him. He is targetable with 12 wounds.

Whoah....I have played 40K for over 30 years.  
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Necrons and marines got tons of datasheets leaked either shortly before 9e was launched or shortly after

2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Sarigar wrote:
If Ghaz no longer has a cap on wounds, I hope he has some other mechanic to protect him. He is targetable with 12 wounds.


What makes you think that he loses that cap? It's a rather successful mechanic.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Domandi wrote:
So you are upset that you had a full year+ to use Ghaz? It will still be months before we even get to use this new profile.

You had plenty of time to play with him using the Saga rules. It isn't GW's fault covid shut everything down.(assuming you stopped playing due to it)


I am, and I do still think that Saga of the Beast was a waste of cash. Especially since 9th edition was announced maybe two months later.


On the contrary it was a good deal. The miniatures of that box were more expensive if bought separately so the books were basically free. Right now if you buy a nobz, meganobz and a ghaz boxes you'll pay more than 50% (the ork part) of the Saga of the Beast kit.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Mr. Grey wrote:
Domandi wrote:
So you are upset that you had a full year+ to use Ghaz? It will still be months before we even get to use this new profile.

You had plenty of time to play with him using the Saga rules. It isn't GW's fault covid shut everything down.(assuming you stopped playing due to it)


I am, and I do still think that Saga of the Beast was a waste of cash. Especially since 9th edition was announced maybe two months later.


I mean yes, obviously, every book you buy from GW is a waste of cash now. They've got like a 1 year lifespan on average and they cost 55 bucks each, that's 'seeing movies in theaters' level bad value.

Also, when I go to a movie theater and shell out thirty bucks to see a 2-hour movie, after I'm done they don't give me a one time use only DVD that i have to walk over to a trash can and fething throw out just to add insult to injury.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

$50 for codices...and they include codes now for them in the Warhammer app.

Just commenting. I've long since gotten off the carousel of "I NEED TO BUY THEM ALL!", as I've got no issue with asking someone to let me see their book during a game if there's a rules issue or something seems wonky.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Blackie wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Domandi wrote:
So you are upset that you had a full year+ to use Ghaz? It will still be months before we even get to use this new profile.

You had plenty of time to play with him using the Saga rules. It isn't GW's fault covid shut everything down.(assuming you stopped playing due to it)


I am, and I do still think that Saga of the Beast was a waste of cash. Especially since 9th edition was announced maybe two months later.


On the contrary it was a good deal. The miniatures of that box were more expensive if bought separately so the books were basically free. Right now if you buy a nobz, meganobz and a ghaz boxes you'll pay more than 50% (the ork part) of the Saga of the Beast kit.

Unless I'm missing something, it looks to me like people are confusing Saga of the Beast (the Psychic Awakening book) and Prophecy of the Wolf (the box set that new Ragnar/Ghaz made their debut in).
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Fayetteville NC

 Jidmah wrote:
 Sarigar wrote:
If Ghaz no longer has a cap on wounds, I hope he has some other mechanic to protect him. He is targetable with 12 wounds.


What makes you think that he loses that cap? It's a rather successful mechanic.


No indication based on the leaked document which is why I opened with "if" in my statement. I have no way to measure if a mechanic is successful or not...what metric of success are you drawing from?

Whoah....I have played 40K for over 30 years.  
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

 Blackie wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Domandi wrote:
So you are upset that you had a full year+ to use Ghaz? It will still be months before we even get to use this new profile.

You had plenty of time to play with him using the Saga rules. It isn't GW's fault covid shut everything down.(assuming you stopped playing due to it)


I am, and I do still think that Saga of the Beast was a waste of cash. Especially since 9th edition was announced maybe two months later.


On the contrary it was a good deal. The miniatures of that box were more expensive if bought separately so the books were basically free. Right now if you buy a nobz, meganobz and a ghaz boxes you'll pay more than 50% (the ork part) of the Saga of the Beast kit.



I'm specifically talking about the Saga of the Beast book that was $40, contained less than 10 pages of "story" and about 5 pages of rules for my Orks.

I realize now that I may have mistakenly thought that Gaz's rules were also packed in that book, in addition to being in the Prophecy of the Wolf box set, which I also bought, and had no issue with(as you said, it was a good deal).

Again, yes this is on me and technically my fault rather than GW's. And like I said earlier in this thread, it's taught me to hold off on buying books until I'm absolutely sure that a) I have a painted army to play them with and b) that I'll actually be able to get a good amount of use out of them. I probably won't be getting the ork codex on release either, and I'm done buying supplements for the time being.


   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

I wrongly remembered that Saga of the Beast was part of the Prophecy of the Wolf lot, my mistake then. I haven't bought that box.

But yes if you buy GW codexes/supplements just for the rules you're right, they are all highly overpriced.

About supplements I don't know what the laws in other countries are, but here it's perfectly legal to copy up to 15% of a book protected by copyright, which is enough to cover all the required pages that include the desired rules. If it's not enough just come a second time and copy a different 15% of the book. Maybe for a codex that's a bit extreme approach but if you just need 10-15 pages of a whole book I don't see the issue and it's something that a lot of players, including me, regularly do.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Oh! that is my fault then! I thought you were talking about the box. For some reason, I forgot the book didn't come with the box. Honestly, it really should have been included, with the option to buy the book separately.

Yes, the book by itself really isn't worth it. Especially because you can get all the rules elsewhere. I got both because I like looking back through the books, and I wanted all the ork models.

   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Blackie wrote:
About supplements I don't know what the laws in other countries are, but here it's perfectly legal to copy up to 15% of a book protected by copyright, which is enough to cover all the required pages that include the desired rules. If it's not enough just come a second time and copy a different 15% of the book. Maybe for a codex that's a bit extreme approach but if you just need 10-15 pages of a whole book I don't see the issue and it's something that a lot of players, including me, regularly do.


I don't think that's right. I assume you're in Italy like your flag suggests?

In Italy there is an allowance for copying up to 15% of a work, but it's not for individuals to go around copying whatever from wherever, it's for things like libraries and the library pays a fee to the copyright holder to allow library users to make those 15% copies.

Quote from random Italian legal site:

With regard to these rights, it should be pointed out that Italian copyright law, in art. 68, par. 3, while prohibiting the reproduction of sheet music or musical parts, allows an intellectual work to be reproduced for personal use, up to a limit of 15% of each volume or publication, by means of a photocopier, xerox or similar system. In this case, those responsible for the place of reproduction, either using a photocopying, xerox or similar system themselves or allowing others to do so, also free of charge, must pay a fee to the authors and publishers of the works reproduced.


Quote from wikipedia:

Loans by state libraries made for cultural promotion or personal study do not require authorization or remuneration (Art. 69). Users may make reprographic reproduction of 15% of a work (excluding sheet music) for private use; remuneration is paid to the authors by the library or copy centre where the reproduction is made (Art. 68).


Unless you mean copying your own book for your own use, in which case I imagine Italy is the same as the rest of the western world where you're allowed to copy the whole book for yourself, you're just not allowed to distribute it.

Disclaimer: I'm not a copyright lawyer and what's written above is not advice.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Sarigar wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Sarigar wrote:
If Ghaz no longer has a cap on wounds, I hope he has some other mechanic to protect him. He is targetable with 12 wounds.


What makes you think that he loses that cap? It's a rather successful mechanic.


No indication based on the leaked document which is why I opened with "if" in my statement. I have no way to measure if a mechanic is successful or not...what metric of success are you drawing from?


Those datasheets never include anything but statlines. I consider it successful because they keep putting variants of it on other combat monsters like blood thirsters or c'tan.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Unless you mean copying your own book for your own use, in which case I imagine Italy is the same as the rest of the western world where you're allowed to copy the whole book for yourself, you're just not allowed to distribute it.


Yeah of course I mean copying for my own use, but I don't think you can theoretically copy a whole book at single time even if it's yours unless you're doing that at your place. The thing is if you copy part of a book that isn't yours but just borrowed from someone or comes from illegal downloaded pdf scans there's no way to establish if that book is actually yours or those pdf scans come from an illegal source. No one will ever complain or ask questions if you do that, any photocopy shop will just check the amount of pages that you're allowed to print; they can't possibly confirm if the source is legit or not. Although I'm pretty sure that copying part of borrowed books is legal.

In fact I remember when I was at university it was perfectly legal to borrow a book from the library and copy part of it, and both professors and the university itself encouraged to do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 09:34:34


Orks 7000
Space Wolves 4000
 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Blackie wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Unless you mean copying your own book for your own use, in which case I imagine Italy is the same as the rest of the western world where you're allowed to copy the whole book for yourself, you're just not allowed to distribute it.


Yeah of course I mean copying for my own use, but I don't think you can theoretically copy a whole book at single time even if it's yours unless you're doing that at your place. The thing is if you copy part of a book that isn't yours but just borrowed from someone or comes from illegal downloaded pdf scans there's no way to establish if that book is actually yours or those pdf scans come from an illegal source. No one will ever complain or ask questions if you do that, any photocopy shop will just check the amount of pages that you're allowed to print; they can't possibly confirm if the source is legit or not.
That's an interesting one, if they can't confirm if it's your own book your copying for yourself, and they believe it's not your book, *technically* I think that means they'd have to pay the copyright holder some fee to allow you to copy it on their premises.

But then if it is your own book, I don't think there's anything that precludes you from just copying the whole thing assuming it's just for your own use.
Although I'm pretty sure that copying part of borrowed books is legal.

I'd be surprised if copying part of a book you borrowed is legal, that would be at odds with other western countries.

In fact I remember when I was at university it was perfectly legal to borrow a book from the library and copy part of it, and both professors and the university itself encouraged to do that.
Educational use is a different murky area that varies from country to country. People often overstep what they're technically allowed to do, but at the same time turn a blind eye, or maybe the rules are vague in certain countries, or maybe a big university has strict rules while a smaller educational institute doesn't. But definitely I've encountered people over here who have said they copied something for educational use when in reality they probably fall outside the educational use allowances.

It's all a murky mess, sorry to take the thread off topic, it's just your first post sounded like it was suggesting to do something that would actually be illegal in most places, but if you own the book and aren't distributing it I don't think there's much to worry about (again, not legal advice ).

   
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






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